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Prestige isn't everything
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Date: December 7th, 2008 8:43 PM Author: irate market There are other things to consider:
Would I be happy here?
Is this the best program for my career?
Would I be attending this school at the best value, cost wise?
Sometimes Ivy League programs are not sufficient for certain majors, however, so-called TTTs offer better programs in the subject. Take a popular one these days: international relations. Princeton's is weak, Harvard's is weak, in fact, the only Ivy with a reputable IR program is Columbia. Yet you could be a fool and go to Harvard for the name and graduate not knowing a damn thing/dissatisfied.
True story: I know a highly successful woman who has worked in the Pentagon, State Department and now earns a high six figure salary who went to Albany law school. I know a woman who went to Brooklyn law school and started out at 100 thou USD. Another went to Wisconsin and is now in a steady job at the U.N. calling shots. Yes, the Ivy League letterhead stands out in a pile of resumes, but what happens when you're pwned by fellow associates who went to TTTs that offered stronger programs?
Prestige isn't everything, in fact, if you spend your time listening to the bitter Ivy rejects around this place, you'll only be setting yourself up for failure. Go to the school that is best for you. At the end of the day, it's about your intelligence, social skills, and natural abilities--not where you went to school. |
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Date: December 7th, 2008 8:56 PM Author: indecent step-uncle's house In an ideal world, yes, but prestige does matter a little bit when applying for a job or taking on an important position. At the individual level, it probably matters very little. As you said, at the end of the day, intelligence and other skills matter more. But from a population stand point, having a bit of edge can be a whole lot.
Your examples of people who succeed without ivy leagues degrees doesn't really mean anything. There are probably 100x persons for every ivy-leaguer, so it's not surprising that some of these people end up ahead.
While I agree with you on the most part, you can't make causal assumptions on isolated cases. |
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Date: December 7th, 2008 9:49 PM Author: Trip base At the undergraduate level the most important thing is to go to a school that's great overall. Although Harvard's IR program may not be the best in the nation (I have no idea), I'm sure it's not shabby either. Choosing another school simply because it has a better IR program would be folly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10482253) |
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Date: December 8th, 2008 1:39 AM Author: confused cerebral sanctuary affirmative action Subject: talking to the wrong crowd most people on this site, especially the law board understands this. And you are right, you can stick a dumbass at harvard and no matter how many degrees he gets from harvard, if he's just riding on harvard's name tail he'll still be a dumbass, it's up to the individual. many times young gunners don't realize that typical careers are 30+ years long, the education is a necessary requirement early on, but not a guarantee of anything at all.
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Date: February 18th, 2009 7:31 PM Author: crawly charismatic church idea he suggested Indeed. Our former president is a case in point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10949090) |
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Date: December 8th, 2008 2:14 AM Author: rebellious factory reset button You're probably the 8 millionth person to expound on this.
The thing is, even if we get over our "prestige whoring", there are countless of other prestige whores out there. Many of which are hiring managers.
Sure you can go to a sub-par school and come out above those with better degrees (happens all the time) but in the end your Harvard degree will probably impress those you need to impress better than that Brooklyn Law degree. |
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Date: December 12th, 2008 3:56 AM Author: wild crusty corner Intelligence, social skills, and "natural abilities" don't mean dick if you don't get an interview. TTT is a sure fire way to get your resume thrown in the cylindrical file lined with the black plastic bag.
I'm glad some of your TTT friends survived the legal jungle. That doesn't justify choosing a TTT, IN THIS ECONOMY. I know a guy who fell off a building and lived. Doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it. |
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Date: February 18th, 2009 9:21 PM Author: Brindle ungodly nursing home brethren hey (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10949932) |
Date: December 7th, 2008 11:29 PM Author: dark sandwich It's the ONLY thing, obviously. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10483016) |
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Date: December 8th, 2008 3:17 AM Author: cheese-eating boiling water gay wizard following your heart is all that matters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10484624) |
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Date: December 8th, 2008 7:02 AM Author: ebony space lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10484990) |
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Date: December 8th, 2008 4:40 PM Author: Excitant faggot firefighter location you should probably actually agree with this.
teaching = little/no prestige. |
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Date: December 8th, 2008 4:44 PM Author: ebony space perfectly true.
also, teaching = great lifestyle |
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Date: December 10th, 2008 7:05 PM Author: Excitant faggot firefighter location Ya, but it sucks compared to your classmates if you go to an Ivy or Ivy-type school. It's hard to pass up prestige, money, power for a job that virtually all of your peers would consider a prole job. Most teachers live and behave like poors, it would be hard to have them as your coworkers. Super duper hard if you're a male.
I know it sounds terrible but I think it would be really hard to give up 160k starting biglaw salary or 200k post-residency doctor salary to go start in teaching for 50k when literally none of my friends have done that. I mean, yes the real jobs make you work harder but they also pay far more, allowing you to raise kids, buy a respectable house, send your kids to Ivy colleges, and have really, really nice stuff. And fit in with a better social circle. |
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Date: December 10th, 2008 7:14 PM Author: rambunctious scarlet liquid oxygen Although it helps, the key to ultra wealth is not an elite degree. The key is owning your own business.
But yes, teaching = TTT. |
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Date: December 10th, 2008 11:20 PM Author: ebony space it's quite easy to give it up if you got laid off from biglaw.
Anyway, there's plenty of teachers who love money and actually work more to make it. |
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Date: December 12th, 2008 2:54 AM Author: Excitant faggot firefighter location I'm a med student, but my gf is in biglaw. She's in employee benefits, doing design and compliance for pension plans. = safe job in any economy, bc few people know ERISA. good hours too.
But seriously, how many grads of Ivy-level UG do you know in teaching? And of those, how many are white men in NYC? It's just not on the radar. |
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Date: December 12th, 2008 6:26 AM Author: dashing cuckoldry My high school computer science teacher was a cornell grad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10510911) |
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Date: December 12th, 2008 8:41 AM Author: Magical blood rage Nobody cares where your high school teachers went to school. You're obviously missing the whole point entirely.
He's saying that MOST ivy leaguers won't turn out to be teachers. Sitting and citing off examples of people you know that make up that minority is not proving anything. |
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Date: December 12th, 2008 2:17 PM Author: lavender disgusting potus public bath This is a stupid response, obviously Columbiaguy's post was relevant. He never made the claim that a sizable proportion of Ivy grads were HS teachers. Indeed, that claim is prima facie absurd for any non-private HS. Super competitive high schools, like the one I attended, do have Ivy grads.
For example, my history teacher went to Yale Law and had a masters and was finishing a PhD at Penn. He was teaching because he had retired from his law career and loved the subject, and was an alumnus with a number of connections to my school. He was a wonderful teacher, probably the best that I had. |
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Date: December 12th, 2008 3:37 PM Author: gold fragrant yarmulke stag film No, this is a stupid response. Anthony's post was obviously alluding to the fact that people with ivy league degrees tend to enter the teaching field at much lower rates than those who went to cheaper, less competitive, less selective schools.
Talking about the teachers you know that do have ivy league degrees as if it's supposed to change or discredit his statement is nothing short of ridiculous. Furthermore, calling a post that points this out "stupid" makes it hilarious. |
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Date: December 14th, 2008 9:39 PM Author: Excitant faggot firefighter location So he was basically RETIRED and NOT MAKING A CAREER of teaching.
OK, wow you really disproved me with this little anecdote.
And I'm sure that your teacher fit in so well with other teachers... all the SUNY and TTT grads. They probably talked about the price of gas and their Black Friday plans together. Because your teacher was clearly living off his teacher salary... |
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Date: December 12th, 2008 12:25 PM Author: Bateful mad cow disease You're so thick (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10511575) |
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Date: December 12th, 2008 2:12 PM Author: lavender disgusting potus public bath Columbiaguy - did you go to Stuyvesant? I know who you're talking about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10512046) |
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Date: December 14th, 2008 9:42 PM Author: Excitant faggot firefighter location Plus, since you're discussing Stuyvesant. Therefore, re: the Yale Law teacher guy, you're talking about one of the top public HS's in the country and you're talking about a guy who probably had a ton of money from being in BIGLAW for a number of yrs.
Clearly he wasn't living off his teacher salary and wasn't spending his weekends hunting for bargains with ttteachers. He probably just wanted to "make a difference" and would feel bored/guilty doing nothing after retiring with millions from biglaw.
And know what? He's still an outlier, because most BIGLAW partners would just be hanging out in the Hamptons or by the beach or going to the Met. Apparently your guy just wanted to inspire the future or somesuch. |
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Date: September 14th, 2010 3:39 AM Author: odious blathering candlestick maker nah, he was their for the cheerleaders (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#16041890) |
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Date: December 14th, 2008 9:37 PM Author: Excitant faggot firefighter location So one teacher, who was probably a flunky... and went to Cornell no less. Probably was in-state and went to one of the state schools @ Cornell. LOL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10525828) |
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Date: February 18th, 2009 7:34 PM Author: crawly charismatic church idea he suggested Their College of Ecology is where all the rich retards go. That Cornell degree does "wonders" for them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10949115) |
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Date: December 20th, 2008 10:30 PM Author: rose aromatic orchestra pit You're gross. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10564668) |
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Date: December 21st, 2008 2:04 AM Author: Plum senate What kind of response is that? Are you a 6 year old girl? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10566120) |
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Date: February 1st, 2009 9:48 AM Author: coiffed stead pisswyrm Subject: Beyond Assertions to Data Everyone here keeps saying hiring managers will care and it does affect your job placement because a recruiter knows a degree from Harvard is better than a degree from some random flagship.
But this study actually assessed the impact of earning a degree from a more selective and well-known school and found that it has little impact beyond selection.
http://partners.nytimes.com/library/financial/columns/042700grads-econoscene.html
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Date: September 14th, 2010 3:53 AM Author: odious blathering candlestick maker that just tells us that both groups tend to end up earning roughly the same salary (although I suspicious of studies that rely on the "average"). but it doesn't tell us whether both groups experienced the same difficulty in reaching that endpoint.
also, a prestigious degree could cover your ass if you royally fucked up GPA wise. the bottom 10% at Harvard gets a 3.0. at TTT's, that group gets a transcript littered with F's and a security escort to the door. |
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Date: February 18th, 2009 11:11 PM Author: opaque volcanic crater lettuce I agree with you and bothered, prestige isn't everything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#10951007) |
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Date: January 5th, 2010 5:43 PM Author: razzle red casino alpha The OP is right...but........Prestige is everything on this board. If you don't believe so, there are other boards out there that think fat chicks with good personalities will suffice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#13729476) |
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Date: September 12th, 2010 3:47 AM Author: Pale national (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#16024659) |
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Date: December 13th, 2010 5:21 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone cruise ship immigrant lol ir (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896106&forum_id=1#16803089) |