btw, my UG is from a non-Ivy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10489932)

Overall, I think Chicago's Business School has more prestige with business types, but in layman's prestige, Columbia def has the edge.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10491214)

If you're looking at that level, you might as well consider Penn/Harvard/Stanford as super reaches. It's incredibly hard to get into any of the top-10.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10491363)

I would not touch any MBA program with a ten foot pole right now. Competition is skyrocketing, meaning you could very well end up in a school ranked lower then you would without application mania driven by the economy, and the all important summer internship with a decent firm is hard to come by.

In summary: have fun working for Motorola.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10492389)

Solid fortune 500 jobs, which students regarded as anathema two years ago, are now considered quite respectable. The talent that places like United Health, Apple, General Electric, etc. are picking up is impressive and will serve them well.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10500572)

Just by way of example, I was out at Cisco the other day (pretty good company IMHO, solid rep in the Valley) the MBA pedigrees were all over the board. Everything from Stanford and Berkeley to Santa Clara University and San Jose State. And they all were making comparable, middle manager renumeration.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10502459)

Cisco is like many other gay companies in the valley who hire anybody and then never fire them. thank god they are finally starting to lay off some of those losers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10503594)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10502485)

Where would you put Columbia? Ahead of Chicago and Kellogg (two business schools traditionally thought of as top 5 or top 6 schools), and close to Wharton and Harvard?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10525064)

Think of it as Duke vs Columbia in the undergrad rankings. Same concept.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10493492)

For example, in the law school world, Cornell and Penn have the "ivy" names, but Chicago or NYU are almost always seen as having the stronger law schools. Chicago and NYU have more clout and prestige in the legal profession.

How does it work in business?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10493859)

U of Chicago and Columbia are on the same level and share most of the same recruiters. MIT, Kellogg, Haas, and Tuck are also on this level. From this group you can really just pick the one you think will be more fun for two years.

The hierarchy essentially looks like this:

1. Harvard, Stanford

2. Wharton

3. Chicago, Kellogg, Sloan, Tuck

3 & 1/2. Haas, Columbia

4. Ross (Michigan), Fuqua (Duke), Johnson (Cornell), Darden (UVa), Anderson (UCLA)

4 & 1/2. Yale, Kenan Flagler (UNC), Tepper (Carnegie Mellon), McCombs (UT Austin)

Everything Else

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10494213)

Top 3:

Harvard/Stanford/Wharton

Top 5:

add Chicago/Kellogg

Top 7 (yes you hear this term much like T14 on the law board):

add Sloan/Columbia

Top 10:

add Tuck, Haas, and Michigan

Top 15:

add NYU, Yale, Cornell, Darden, and Duke

Top 20:

add UCLA, Indiana, CMU, UNC, and UT-Austin.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10495067)

NYU is stronger than both. Chicago, however, is not stronger than Penn.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10498024)

Also, now, I'm going to strongly disagree with your statement that I was chicago trolling by saying Chicago law is better than Penn Law. For the past couple years, Penn has been tied with Chicago - for the 20 years before that, Chicago has always been ahead.

In cross-admit battles, Penn might have an edge now, because it's kind of a "hot" school. You referred to Leiter's blog on the law school hierarchy. Look at any of his rankings, for law firm placement, for clerkship placement, for strength of faculty - anything - and Chicago always comes in (sometimes significantly) ahead of Penn Law.

Again, Penn Law is a great school, and in the past 2-3 years, it's gotten a bump in the rankings. Chicago has been a powerhouse in law for decades, and a few good years for Penn Law does NOT mean it has caught up.

Go here for all of Leiter's rankings:

http://www.leiterrankings.com/

For pretty much everything, Chicago Law beats out Penn Law. I don't know how tihs is "blatant Chicago trolling." If I said Chicago was better than NYU or Columbia or Stanford, then sure, I'd agree with you - I'd be trolling. It's just not a stretch to say Chicago Law is stronger than Penn Law. It's been that way for decades.

Now, Penn Law might be closing the gap - that's definitely an argument - but according to placement, faculty strength, strength of student body, etc., I don't think they're on equal footing yet.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10498579)

I'm surprised now that it's as low as #7 in US News. Perhaps there are other factors that I'm not aware of, but Columbia, NYU and Berkeley all appear to be out of place above it.

My apologies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10498723)

I think Chicago doesn't do well in some factor called "financial resources" and that's led to it's drop in US News? Who knows. Again, the US News rankings are only worth so much.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10498750)

Cornell has a business school also. Prepared to use trite Ivy-name sophistry to defend it too?

There was a time when Columbia's brightest business school students were no more intelligent than GW. In Cambridge, where snobbery rules, they say that Columbia MBAs always end up working for Harvard MBA's.

Granted, you have Sandy Weill and Buffet as Columbia MBAs who've achieved as much as anyone, so there are exceptions to the stereotype - at least from the Cambridge reference frame.

(Don't shoot me, I'm in Palo Alto.)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10495952)

his harvard rejection is funny too, given everything he's accomplished

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10514605)

Also I think Chicago is superior to Columbia for bschool, even in banking.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10505393)

* Buffett filed his first income tax return, deducting his bicycle and watch as a work expense for $35 for his work as newspaper delivery boy.[33]

1945: (15 years old)

* In his freshman year of high school, Buffett and a friend spent $25.00 to purchase a used pinball machine, which they placed in a barber shop. Within months, they owned three machines in different locations.

1949: (19 years old)

* In 1949, he was initiated into Alpha Sigma Phi Fraternity while an undergraduate at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. His father and uncles also were Alpha Sigma Phi brothers from the chapter at Nebraska, to which Warren eventually transferred.

1950: (20 years old)

* Buffett applied for admission to Harvard Business School, but was turned down.[34]

* Buffett enrolled at Columbia Business School after learning that Benjamin Graham and David Dodd, two well-known securities analysts, taught there.

1951: (21 years old)

* Buffett discovered Graham was on the board of GEICO insurance at the time. After taking a train to Washington, D.C. on a Saturday, Buffett knocked on the door of GEICO's headquarters until a janitor allowed him in. There, he met Lorimer Davidson, the vice president, who was to become a lasting influence on him and life-long friend.[35] They talked for four hours about the insurance business. Davidson recalled that he found Buffett to be an “extraordinary man” after fifteen minutes.

* Buffett was graduated from Columbia and wanted to work on Wall Street. Both his father and Ben Graham urged him not to. Buffett offered to work for Graham for free, but Graham refused.[34] He purchased a Sinclair Texaco gas station as a side investment, but that venture did not work out as well as he had hoped. Meanwhile, he worked as a stockbroker. During that time, Buffett also took a Dale Carnegie public speaking course. Using what he learned, he felt confident enough to teach a night class at the University of Nebraska, "Investment Principles." The average age of the students he taught was more than twice his own.

1952: (22 years old)

* Buffett married Susan Thompson.

1953: (23 years old)

* Susan and Warren Buffett had their first child, Susan Alice Buffett.

1954: (24 years old)

* Benjamin Graham offered Buffett a job at his partnership with a starting salary of $12,000 a year. Here, he worked closely with Walter Schloss.

* Graham, who was a tough man to work for, was adamant that a stock provide a wide margin of safety after weighting the trade-off between its price and intrinsic value. Graham’s demand that a stock be worth more than its price made sense to Buffett, but it also made him question whether the criteria were too stringent, causing them to miss out on some big winners that had more qualitative values.[34]

* Susan and Warren Buffett had their second child, Howard Graham Buffett.

1956: (26 years old)

* Benjamin Graham retired and closed his partnership.

* Buffett's personal savings were now over $140,000.

* Buffett returned home to Omaha and created Buffett Partnership Ltd., an investment partnership.

“ I’ll tell you why I like the cigarette business. It costs a penny to make. Sell it for a dollar. It’s addictive. And there’s fantastic brand loyalty. ”

—Warren Buffett[36][37], 1987

1957: (27 years old)

* Buffett had three partnerships operating the entire year.

* Buffett purchased a five-bedroom stucco house in Omaha, in which he still lives, for $31,500.

1958: (28 years old)

* Susan and Warren Buffett had their third child, Peter Andrew Buffett

* Buffett had five partnerships operating the entire year.

1959: (29 years old)

* Buffett had six partnerships operating the entire year.

* Buffett was introduced to Charlie Munger.

1960: (30 years old)

* Buffett had seven partnerships operating the entire year.

* The partnerships were: Buffett Associates, Buffett Fund, Dacee, Emdee, Glenoff, Mo-Buff, and Underwood.

* Buffett asked one of his partners, a doctor, to find ten other doctors who would be willing to invest $10,000 each in his partnership. Eventually, eleven doctors agreed to invest.

1961: (31 years old)

* Buffett revealed that Sanborn Map Company accounted for 35% of the partnerships' assets.

* Buffett explained that in 1958, Sanborn sold at $45 per share when the value of the Sanborn investment portfolio was $65 per share. This meant buyers valued Sanborn at "minus $20" per share, and buyers were unwilling to pay more than 70 cents on the dollar for an investment portfolio with a map business thrown in for nothing.

* Buffett revealed that he earned a spot on the board of Sanborn.

1962: (32 years old)

* Buffett became a millionaire because Buffett's partnerships, in January 1962, had in excess of $7,178,500 of which over $1,025,000 belonged to Buffett.

* Buffett merged all partnerships into one partnership.

* Buffett discovered a textile manufacturing firm, Berkshire Hathaway. Buffett's partnerships began purchasing shares at $7.60 per share.

1965: (35 years old)

* When Buffett's partnerships aggressively began purchasing Berkshire, they paid $14.86 per share while the company had working capital (current assets minus current liabilities) of $19 per share. This did not include the value of fixed assets (factory and equipment).

* Buffett took control of Berkshire Hathaway at the board meeting and named a new president, Ken Chace, to run the company.

1966: (36 years old)

* Buffett closed the partnership to new money.

* Buffett wrote in his letter “unless it appears that circumstances have changed (under some conditions added capital would improve results) or unless new partners can bring some asset to the partnership other than simply capital, I intend to admit no additional partners to BPL.”

* In a second letter, Buffett announced his first investment in a private business — Hochschild, Kohn and Co, a privately owned Baltimore department store.

1967: (37 years old)

* Berkshire paid out its first and only dividend of 10 cents.

1969: (39 years old)

* Following his most successful year, Buffett liquidated the partnership and transferred their assets to his partners. Among the assets paid out were shares of Berkshire Hathaway.

1970: (40 years old)

* As chairman of Berkshire Hathaway, began writing his now-famous annual letters to shareholders.

1973: (43 years old)

* Berkshire began to acquire stock in the Washington Post Company. Buffett became close friends with Katharine Graham, who controlled the company and its flagship newspaper, and became a member of its board of directors.

1974: (44 years old)

* The SEC opened a formal investigation into Warren Buffett and one of Berkshire's mergers due to possible conflict of interest. Nothing ever came of it.

1977: (47 years old)

* Berkshire indirectly purchased the Buffalo Evening News for $32.5 million. Antitrust charges started.

1979: (49 years old)

* Berkshire began to acquire stock in ABC. With the stock trading at $290 per share, Buffett's net worth neared $140 million. However, he lived solely on his salary of $50,000 per year.

* Berkshire began the year trading at $775 per share, and ended at $1,310. Buffett's net worth reached $620 million, placing him on the Forbes 400 for the first time.

1987: (57 years old)

* Berkshire Hathaway purchased 12% stake in Salomon Inc., making it the largest shareholder and Buffett the director.

1988: (58 years old)

* Buffett began buying stock in Coca-Cola Company, eventually purchasing up to 7 percent of the company for $1.02 billion. It would turn out to be one of Berkshire's most lucrative investments, and one which it still holds.

1990: (60 years old)

* Scandals involving Maurice R. Greenberg and John Gutfreund (former CEO of Salomon Brothers) surfaced.

1999: (69 years old)

* Buffett was named the top money manager of the twentieth century in a survey by the Carson Group, ahead of Peter Lynch and John Templeton.[38]

2002: (72 years old)

* Buffett entered in $11 billion worth of forward contracts to deliver U.S. dollars against other currencies. By April 2006, his total gain on these contracts was over $2 billion.

2004: (73 years old)

* His wife, Susan, died.

2006: (75 years old)

* Buffett announced in June that he gradually would give away 85% of his Berkshire holdings to five foundations in annual gifts of stock, starting in July 2006. The largest contribution would go to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.[39]

2007: (76 years old)

* In a letter to shareholders, Buffett announced that he was looking for a younger successor, or perhaps successors, to run his investment business.[40] Buffett had previously selected Lou Simpson, who runs investments at Geico, to fill that role. However, Simpson is only six years younger than Buffett.

2008: (77 years old)

* Buffett became the richest man in the world, worth $62 billion according to Forbes,[41] and $58 billion according to Yahoo[42]. Bill Gates had been number 1 on the Forbes list for 15 consecutive years.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=896727&forum_id=1#10516735)