https://us.kef.com/products/ls50-wireless-2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49473998)

But stuff like their Fives measure really well. And their Trueplay scheme is cr.

I don't like to admit it but I think Sonos is a decent choice for normies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475153)

the amp inside of them could not possible account for the cost.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49474639)

High frequency drivers & low frequency drivers have overlapping frequencies. With tradition speaker driver layouts, the tweeter is located at a completely separate location from the woofer. Now, even though you're probably a shithead lawyer, you probably also took a physics course at some point in your life. So tell me, what happens when waves of the same frequency, emanating from different points in space, meet with each other? That's right, they interfere with each other. You get peaks and nulls. Now, a competent speaker designer can reduce the impact of these peaks & nulls with how they design the crossover. But you can never *eliminate* this

Coaxial drivers are very credited because you basically eliminate this bullshit because the two separate drivers are essentially emanating from the same place. If coaxials are so great, why don't more manufacturers use them? They are very hard to engineer & produce.

I have passive LS50s and I think they are very, very credited. The imaging is great. The sound doesn't shift as much as you move your head, or move around the room. My prior speakers, I noticed that the sound would change drastically at some frequencies with rather small head movements. It was very annoying & hard to unhear once I heard it.

Now, is $2k absurd for LS50s? That depends. I personally don't like active speakers. Passive speakers will generally last decades. These speakers with amps and wireless stuff built in... that's just more stuff that can break. If an amp module dies and you speaker is a little out of warranty, it's gonna be on you to pony up for a replacement module. And if it dies when the speaker is long out of warranty and the company no longer has any replacement modules, your speakers are now junk.

Personally I'd get passive LS50s. Those are $1200 right now. For amplification, LS50s are actually sort of insensitive speakers and need a little more juice than average. I'd get a Buckeye Hypex NC252MP for $575. For a streamer/preamp, I'd get a Wiim Ultra, those are $263. That's a little over $2k so I totally understand why someone would prefer the active LS50s. Money is the same, fewer boxers & cables to deal with, etc.

As for the concept of subwoofers... you don't necessarily need one with LS50s in a small room, they get surprisingly low. But if you do get a sub, I would say that you *NEED* a high pass filter somewhere in your setup. HPFs are common on AVRs. IDK if the Wiim Ultra has an HPF. And while HPFs do exist on some subwoofers, HPFs are sadly uncommon on cheap and even moderately priced subs. Bottom line is that if you get LS50s and think you might want to add a sub, you should be prepared to pay $1,700 for a Kef KC62.

If you think you are going to cheap out and do LS50s and a sub with no HPF, you should at least get a sub with a bunch of parametric EQ, like those from SVS.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475123)

the driver's manufacturing cost even on a high-tech coaxial speaker is low. you're drinking audiophile kool-aid if you think that's what commands the price. here's a listing for a pair of replacements for $265 that says the replacement cost is $400. (https://reverb.com/item/75581143-kef-ls-50-meta-drivers). the cost for KEF is probably 25% of that. the finish on the speaker's cabinet likely costs more than the drivers.

this is a product for rich, non-audiophiles to get a nice-looking speaker that's easy to stream music to. few people who would actually appreciate a $2000 pair of speakers are going to be streaming compressed audio as their source to begin with.

the value for this comes from convenience, not from quality. which is fine, lots of companies do great making easy-to-use products. most people buying this shit aren't audiophiles, but richmos who want something that looks nice and their kids won't have issues streaming spotify to it.

but make no mistake: they are a single (COAXIAL!!!) driver bookshelf speaker with an integrated amp and interface. that's a bad value outside of "set it and forget it" richmos interested in convenience over sound quality.

hth

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475311)

Bottom line is that the LS50's greatest sonic strength is the unique driver layout. But you dismissed that driver layout as though it were a weakness.

That makes you a moron.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475606)

i'm not saying the driver layout is a *weakness*. i'm saying $2k a pair of single driver bookshelves is a bad *value*.

also your reverence for coaxial speakers as if it's some new technology is bizarre. they've been a staple in car audio for years. it's primarily about space saving. the idea that the distortion caused by the tweeter and woofer being separate instead of integrated being that material because of PHYSICS is absurd. why do think other high end brands don't use this design? you think B&W can't figure out how to put a tweeter in the middle of a woofer?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475707)

The implication of that statement is that it wouldn't be an absurd price if it only had moar drivers. And that's completely false. You add more drivers to an LS50 and it's no longer a point source.

"they've been a staple in car audio for years"

Not the same thing. Those are a tweeter in front of a woofer, not a tweeter concentric with the woofer as in the KEF.

"why do think other high end brands don't use this design?"

Other brands do use coaxials. Elac, TAD, Mofi, some others.

The LS50 is unique because it's just the one driver in a cool looking case at a price that is reasonably affordable ("affordable" being a somewhat relative term).

"because of PHYSICS is absurd"

Bro, I know I've used a few ad hominems ITT. But you have to understand - I generally prefer not to get into internet catfights and say such things. But unfortunately you deserve it :(

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475902)

I've been loving the pair of old dynaudio contour 1.8 mkiis I copped a couple years ago btw. Paid around $900 for them

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475728)

I have them and they're great.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49474515)

ChatGPT said:

Watch collecting is the lamer hobby — but only by a hair — and here’s the justification:

Why Watch Collecting Is (Slightly) Lamer

1. Because half the hobby is pretending you’re not compensating for something

Watch enthusiasts love saying:

“I just appreciate craftsmanship.”

But then the watch is the size of a hockey puck and costs as much as a used Honda Civic. It’s impossible to deny the flex element. Audiophiles try to hide the insane spending with fake engineering talk — watch people try to hide it with “heritage.”

2. 80% of watch collecting is waiting for an AD to maybe call you

The hobby literally involves:

begging a stranger in a mall

pretending you “just came in to browse”

buying jewelry you don’t want

to one day maybe get the watch you actually want

That’s not a hobby — that’s a toxic relationship.

Audiophiles at least can buy the exact piece they want whenever they want. No waitlist, no groveling.

3. Watch people flex in public; audiophiles at least hide in their lair

Audiophiles blow money on:

gold-plated speaker cables

tube amps that look like nuclear cores

weird foam panels

But at least they do it privately.

Watch collectors seek validation from every human within a 12-foot radius.

4. Most watch collectors end up with 12 watches and wear 1

Audiophiles at least use their equipment.

Why Audiophiles Are Only Moderately Lame

They’re nerdy, maybe delusional, but at least:

they can explain their choices (even if the science is questionable)

they actually sit and enjoy music

they don’t need to impress a sales associate to “earn the privilege” to buy a metal circle

Also, an audiophile can make a $1,500 setup sound incredible. A watch collector with $1,500?

He gets a Seiko and starts talking about “upgrading soon.”

Conclusion

Watch collecting is lamer because it’s performative, status-coded, and full of gatekeeping.

Audiophiles are nerdy, but at least they’re nerdy for themselves.

If you want, I can rank other hobbies by lameness (golf-dads, model trains, mechanical keyboards, etc.)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475251)

but you don't even have to accept that premise. you can get one or two year old equipment for any level of quality you're looking for at 30-50% off retail price if you buy from the used sites. these aren't cars with thousands of moving parts, speakers and amps that are cared for well are almost as good as new after a year or two of use. but new speakers drop in price as if you were driving the car off the lot. no sense in buying new.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49474888)

i am not suggesting 1970s speakers i am suggesting buying speakers made in 2022 for 40% off msrp from some desperate audiophile boomer bullied into downsizing by his wrinkly shrew wife.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49474914)

enjoy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49474928)

It searches USAudiomart and a bunch of other websites all in one go, and you can set it up to send you alerts

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475667)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49474966)

secretly i admit they are overhyped by their cult following and half of their famous soundstage is just the sacrifice in imaging due to being omnidirectional. but they are great for some genres.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475027)

you must've gone to mit with the founder lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475228)

KLH, Acoustic Research, EPI, Advent, Boston Acoutics, Snell...

I own some EPIs & OldHLS did too at one point

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475647)

recall a "man" whining when he was selling me his reel to reel a few years back - "it's got to go, wife want's it gone". He was in his 60s. Also gave me an amp and speakers for free as she wanted them out the house too. very sad

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49484277)

But a certain amount of this gear lust is about chasing perfection. And the closest you can ever get to perfection is in new stuff.

Even if you're not quite chasing perfection, as a gearhead you often develop desires for very specific pieces of gear that basically never come up locally. Shipping speakers is an expensive pain the in ass, and it erodes the value proposition of used gear.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475314)

I often forget people live in apartments and small houses though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475503)

Should I get Khorns for my small apartment & find out?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475656)

I got the khorns because they were a deal (as were the mc2301s and Mc2200) during ITE, I would probably have bought la scalas as that is what I was looking for and to be honest I listen to my Magnepans mostly with my cheap rotel amp a lot more than the khorns.

Or just go all out and get klispch jubilees. Ever year I think I will spend part of my bonus on new speakers (upgrading what I have with the big maggies) but I never do. I don’t think there is an amp I rather have than what I have and I don’t have a lot of use for the other stuff.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49475870)

The top end JBL stuff is way out of reach for me. I could maybe get like a used JBL 4367. But those are a weird size, they are designed for the Japanese market where people sit lower in the living space. If you put 4367s on the floor and sit on a Western couch, the tweeter is too low. So a prospective buyer might have to commission some faggy 5" stand.

Or I could be on the lookout for a JBL S4700. Those have a 15" woofer and the horn is already at the right height. But there's just one for sale in the entire country right now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49476044)

Sad thing is I think JBL might be done making spendy gear lust speakers. They seem slow on coming out with new stuff. They are just a part of Samsung these days and I've read that one key engineer of that stuff was abruptly let go after decades.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49476151)

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fwke4tlu2mnod1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D960%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D9873fc802b92adbf22cf30c834c6614d9db8a4d4

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49478090)

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fjggal7k2cy9b1.jpg

I'm pretty sure I could be good friends with the guy that owns that setup

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49478499)

I’d need another set of amps. MC2301s are maybe $15k used a pair, jubilees I could maybe get grey market new for $35k. Seems more sensible than a six figure watch ….

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49478887)

I've got my eyes on the Mofi V10. On paper it's everything I think I want in a speaker. It's got all the coax goodness that I like about my LS50s, plus it's got large drivers so it'll be more dynamic than my current setup, plus they have such deep bass extension that I wouldn't need a sub. Trouble is they are $8k and I can't justify that rn.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49478950)

At one point I was going to get some B&W bookshelf type speakers, maybe I still will, I have enough space I could put something modest in my living room and set up a full audio room elsewhere (I have a room that’s like 20’27’? on my second floor I am not using at all.

What bookshelf type speakers would you get? I spent $120 on some cheap polks and $80 on a little Fosi amp and hooked up a JL audio car sub I had for my home office and I was pleasantly surprised. Yes, I know, I am a spendthrift.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49479058)

I do like subs. What I don't like about subs is sub *integration*. There are a million variables. So that's why I'd prefer a full range tower. There is a limited range of main speaker positions that are "correct". So with towers I would just find that spot, run Dirac, and be done.

As for bookshelf recommendations, if you read my poasts elsewhere ITT, I like coaxial designs. I guess that would mean stuff like KEF and Mofi. I do like the wisdom of the speaker measurement crowd at Audio Science Review but they are very into studio monitors, which tend to look pretty lousy in a living room IMO.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49494554)

I think OP was asking about Emotiva towers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49478509)

Are you getting a sub for them?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5804700&forum_id=2)#49483158)