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Debevoise or Latham NY?
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Date: October 31st, 2007 12:38 AM Author: honey-headed lay dragon Subject: Debevoise or Latham NY? 2L deciding between Debevoise and Latham in New York for next summer. Want to do some sort of transactional work, not necessarily M&A or PE though. More concerned with differences in firms' cultures. Any thoughts? Thanks! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8833397) |
Date: October 31st, 2007 12:59 AM Author: Talented Deranged Brethren if culture is the concern, latham is more fratty and has more "party types" while debevoise seems much more restrained, although im sure it has its party group as well
i know very chill people at both firms who were/will be SAs so i don't think you could go wrong with either firm's culture if you are a relatively normal, social person who seeks similar people |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:06 AM Author: honey-headed lay dragon Well that's the thing. I don't want to feel pressured to go out all the time (possible at Latham?) but I also don't want to feel like people around me are too quiet and reserved (possible at Debevoise?).
What about other aspects of these firms, such as competitive atmosphere (Deb is lockstep, Latham isn't - but I don't know if non-lockstep necessarily translates into competitive atmosphere)...any other factors I'm not thinking of?
I've enjoyed the people I've met at both firms, for what it's worth. |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:14 AM Author: Talented Deranged Brethren i don't think you'd be pressured at latham or be surrounded with the quiet reserved at deb. most likely, you will probably just naturally gravitate towards the people most like you/the ones you like most at your firm anyway
i cannot say this with any authority, but i can't imagine one place being any more competitive than the other
i guess just try to schedule a meeting with more people from each firm and see if anything else comes out. in the end, you're probably just going to have to go with your gut
as a side note, both firms also seem pretty trendy right now |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:20 AM Author: honey-headed lay dragon I think you're probably right that I need to just go meet more people. Anyone else have thoughts on this dilemma?
Trendy huh? Should that make a difference in my opinions of the places? I don't care if a place is the "in" place to go right now, I just want to be happy wherever I am.
Finally, I know I'm going to get crap for asking this (and at the risk of having this thread hijacked with a debate about this), but at this level of prestige should I even care about (minimal?) difference in prestige between the two?
PS thanks for your help so far, Hippo!
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:27 AM Author: Talented Deranged Brethren trendy should be irrelevent, but i know a good number of people who chose these firms over more "prestigious" firms like S&C, CSM, etc. hopefully this means the firms are doing something right to attract top students apart from mere hype/good marketing.
there might be people who would just go by something like the vault ny prestige rankings, but, in my eyes, i don't see any prestige difference between the two nor would i be more impressed with someone who went to deb than with someone who went to latham or vice versa. maybe someone who is more knowledgeable could speak to the different exit opps between the two firms?
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:24 AM Author: Umber center Both are prestigious, although I think Deb has the edge in lit and Latham in corp--all things being equal, I would choose Latham for corp. Did you go to The Big Event? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8833582) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:26 AM Author: honey-headed lay dragon I am completely uninterested in litigation. It sounds like you think I should go to Latham in this case. What about my other concerns?
I did go to the Big Event. It was a blast. Did you? |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:27 AM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge Did you see me stumbling around?
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:29 AM Author: honey-headed lay dragon You and the other 100 people there doing the same thing. I'm pissed I missed the crab legs somehow, but I got my share of foie gras mini burgers. Amazingness. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8833609) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:30 AM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge Yeah I had three and almost puked - too much fat. The green chick kiwi drinks were good though.
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:33 AM Author: honey-headed lay dragon So were the little caviar mini corn tortilla things.
An offer? You mean an acceptance? |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:38 AM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge yeah thats what I meant. If you have any questions ask them now - I have to go to sleep and tomorrow I will be posting with my normal moniker.
I honestly cant recommend latham highly enough if you are a person who appreciates having good people around to work with. there are dicks everywhere, but I can honestly say that when I have to work late, its not a miserable experience because I like the people I work with. I also have a lot of friends at the firm, but not everyone is for that. |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:44 AM Author: honey-headed lay dragon Okay LathamRetard,
(1) What do you know about availability to work in the smaller practice areas (i.e., not litigation or corporate - but smaller ones like tax, employee benefits, real estate, etc)?
(2) Do you feel like there's any emphasis on face time? How often do you find yourself working "late" (and what does "late" mean to you?)
Thanks for all your help. |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:52 AM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge 1) Our tax department is pretty small in new york so there is not a tremendous amount of work for junior associates, same with benefits. However there are one or two people who go into it and they get work. Like anything else, the unassigned system lets you try whatever work is available, and if there isnt enough, you can do other stuff. You have 2 years to pick.
Antitrust, Bankruptcy and Real Estate are decent sized and are pretty popular as they are a little less crazy but have a good amount of interesting work.
2) There is no emphasis on face time at all. I show up between 10 and 11. When I have less than 2 hours of work to do and no meetings I dont come into the office. I work from home and exercise or watch TV the rest of the day. I have no problem leaving at 4:30 if I have nothing to do.
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:58 AM Author: honey-headed lay dragon Very informative!
Any pressure to bill? Pressure to meet hours (although I imagine it wouldn't be hard to meet minimum being only 1900)? Competitive environment at all?
Can I ask what practice group you're in - or at least whether you're lit or corp? And what year associate you are? If you'd rather not say, then I totally understand.
Thanks again for all your help. |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:37 AM Author: Umber center Really? I thought overall the people were far better-looking than at other firm events. I guess it's all relative, though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8833641) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:39 AM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge latham has generally better looking people (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8833651) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:32 AM Author: Umber center Yep, and I really liked the people I talked to... it would be a very fun summer at Latham.
I want to do lit, though, and I didn't feel like their lit practice had what I was looking for. If I was looking for corporate, it would be a tough call between Latham and Cleary. As it stands, I had to drop both offers.
As far as socializing goes, both summer classes are large enough that you can find people sufficiently similar in their going-out habits. I don't think it's a big deal.
I didn't interview at Deb, but I have a friend going there for lit who is really excited about them. |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:25 AM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge I like latham a lot. Debevoise is extremely popular in OCI but I dont know a lot of people there now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8833587) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:27 AM Author: honey-headed lay dragon Are you at Latham now? (If your name is any indication, I'm guessing yes...) Can you say what made you choose the place? And what do you dislike about it specifically as a firm (not about being a lawyer in general)? Thanks! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8833594) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:29 AM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge I chose the place because of the unassigned system.
I can honestly say I have no complaints at all about Latham that are not general work complaints - the closest thing is that Latham is not a compensation leader and will be late to announce raises and bonuses... but it will always match market in NY.
I like the people here and the work and the flexibility to do what I want and pick my practice group and supervisors. I honestly would not pick another firm in New York including any V-10, even for Wachtell money. |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 7:31 PM Author: blue indecent goyim i concur with all the positive stuff people are saying about latham. among large NY firms, i think they are one of the best when you combine quality of work and quality of work environment.
the unassigned system is a HUGE advantage as a junior associate. you really can try out a lot of stuff, get on different kinds of deals, etc. when i was in law school, i was completely ignorant of that kind of thing, and didn't think it really mattered. believe me, now that i'm in a firm where i have no variety of work (and very little opportunity to move), i wish i had known about places like latham. if nothing else, it kind of lets you fuck around for a couple years before really getting serious.
i've worked on a lot of deals with latham and i've always been very impressed. and while it seems like a cult, people really seem to be genuinely happy there. |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 1:11 AM Author: navy costumed laser beams spot I never really thought about this until I was a 3L and my friends at other firms were talking about what practice group they were in, etc. IMO that's a pretty big decision to make as a law student, and it probably makes for a more stressful 2L summer for people who don't have a good idea of what area they want to be in.
On the other hand, I suppose there are more mentoring opportunities when you're assigned to a group early on, since associates and partners in your group have more reason to invest in you. But given the choice, I'm pretty happy with the flexibility to choose assignments more or less at my preference. |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:50 AM Author: Well-lubricated headpube hairy legs no disrespect to latham, but if i could work at any firm in nyc, i would work at debevoise. i have been very impressed by the debevoise people that i have worked with on deals--very smart and very nice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8833690) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 1:53 AM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge they are very nice. I like fun and interesting more than nice/nerdy. I think the quality of work is comparable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8833699) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 6:57 PM Author: tantric ultramarine business firm cuckold I'd go Latham w/out a doubt.
"Fratty" != pressured to go out "Fratty" = unlike most other big firms, you actually like the people you work with |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 7:12 PM Author: navy costumed laser beams spot I agree with this. I don't know where this idea of "pressure to go out" comes from -- it's a law firm, people have stuff to do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8836500) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 7:15 PM Author: dead whorehouse sandwich I heard Latham makes first-years clean up the puke. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8836507) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 10:00 PM Author: honey-headed lay dragon Well, what does "fratty" mean then? Apart from what the earlier poster said, that it means you just enjoy the people you work with. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837283) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 10:08 PM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837307) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 10:16 PM Author: honey-headed lay dragon Not a useful response :) Try again? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837340) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 10:02 PM Author: honey-headed lay dragon There's been a lot of talk about Latham, which has been helpful for me. But does anyone have anything to say about Debevoise? Positive or negative, or just anything at all? Thanks! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837291) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 10:27 PM Author: Cream Idiot Its summers pull all-nighters. Whether this is forced or by choice, it doesn't bode well for QOL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837385) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 10:32 PM Author: honey-headed lay dragon That's contrary to everything else I've heard about Deb having relatively good QOL. Where do you get this info? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837415) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 10:41 PM Author: Cream Idiot From people who summered there. This summer's class was apparently full of gunners aiming to make partner before August. There was competition among them to see who could stay the latest. I was led to believe that this behavior was neither encouraged nor discouraged by the firm, but some summers were apparently pressured to remain for a week or so after the end of the summer program to finish assignments. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837456) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 10:42 PM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge its a nice firm but there are a lot of dorks there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837461) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 11:08 PM Author: Cream Idiot I would say they are more "reserved" or even "bookish" - which I guess could imply "dorky" - but I haven't met all that many of them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837573) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 10:57 PM Author: Talented Deranged Brethren if that's true, it seems surprising as i've heard that yale people who think they'll do less work there than comparable nyc firms have been gravitating to deb (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837521) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 11:06 PM Author: Cream Idiot Maybe they are looking for a place to standout as hard working without having to bill 3000. Or not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837561) |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 11:17 PM Author: mustard trump supporter therapy i too was surprised at how hard my friends worked at debevoise this past summer.
the firm was really popular during oci last year, especially among girls because everyone thought it was a laidback, women/family-friendly nyc firm with nice people and good work/life balance.
one friend (who's definitely not a gunner) consistently worked past midnight and said that it wasn't uncommon among other summers. by comparison, i only stayed past 10pm twice and did 10am-6pm pretty much the rest of the time; and i worked for a supposedly more sweatshoppy firm than debevoise.
p.s. my own impression of debevoise from callback was that people were very soft-spoken and nice, albeit the "nice" part seemed a bit fake. |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 10:15 AM Author: Histrionic Mauve Locale Cuckoldry same here. a good friend and i narrowed our choices down to debevoise and sweatshop firm x. he chose debevoise for the recruiting pitch. i didn't. he worked more over the summer than did many of the associates at my firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8838893) |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 5:41 PM Author: blue indecent goyim how hard summers work has some indication of how much regular associates are working, but it doesn't give you too much information.
this summer, i routinely sent home summers at 6 or 7. then i'd be here until midnight or 2 a.m.
basically, sweatshop firms want their summers to have a great time so that they'll look forward to coming back. |
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Date: October 31st, 2007 11:36 PM Author: vigorous maize ticket booth People at Deb were quiet, geeky, but surprisingly snooty. I met a couple of very pretentious people there. I think it would really deflate their egos if you told them they were no different from lawyers at Skadden... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8837663) |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 2:25 AM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge nm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8838304) |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 12:30 PM Author: Sticky genital piercing Who me? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8839243) |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 1:53 PM Author: navy costumed laser beams spot This sounds fun and all until a partner gives you an assignment at 5 pm because "it's my night to post the Hizzla threads." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8839452) |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 4:50 PM Author: Motley Giraffe hahahah (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8840199) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 6:37 PM Author: Stirring travel guidebook parlor I fucking HATE it when this happens. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8866398) |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 2:51 PM Author: Scarlet ceo doctorate I'm not sure what this suggests. But for the record, I'm at Debevoise, and I know a good handful of people who read xoxo. Most don't post often, but they're around.
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Date: November 1st, 2007 3:00 PM Author: Sticky genital piercing Yeh. I'm honestly not sure what it means either. If you look at the large quantity of racist, hizzla, and WGWAG threads on here, it doesn't make me think "Well if you're on xoxo, you must be cool." That said, I do think that Latham tends to attract a more social bunch than most firms. Regardless, just visit the firms and decide which people you like better. Prestige-wise, we're pretty even in New York. If you're considering moving out of New York, I think Latham is the clear winner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8839702) |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 4:57 PM Author: Passionate jade principal's office Just to randomly jump in here, I always have fun meeting Xoxo posters in real life. You can share a bunch of inside jokes and be pretty open with each other since it's not like you have anything to hide. That's also the reason why meeting lurkers is not so cool -- don't have quite the same information parity there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8840239) |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 5:16 PM Author: Stirring travel guidebook parlor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8840340) |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 5:17 PM Author: Stirring travel guidebook parlor how do you know if the other person is an xoxo poster? secret hand motions a la Larry Craig? You can't just jump into conversations about the last interracial couple you saw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8840342) |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 3:05 PM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge OTOH lurkers are scum. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8839721) |
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Date: November 1st, 2007 5:02 PM Author: Maroon impertinent meetinghouse tattoo Latham always struk me as Skadden-Light. Huge, offices all over the place, work hard play hard with maybe slightly fewer TTTs. Debevoise, OTOH, strikes me as as a pretentious YLS shithole full of internal investigation crap work.
Then again, I've worked at neither... but judging from the posts on this thread it doesn't seem like that should prevent me from posting. |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 8:48 PM Author: infuriating legal warrant theater stage This post will stand the test of time. Cogent analysis. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8867003) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 9:12 PM Author: azure hall international law enforcement agency This is highly credited. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8867130) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 7:43 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people I was at the Big Event. Pretty good time! It definitely wasn't stuffy. By the time we got to Whiskey Blue, it was a meat market.
I hate to say this, but one of the things that I can't get over was how many people were from non-T14 schools. Four people from Hofstra! Plus lots of Seton Hall, BLS, St. John's Law people, etc. In contrast: only one HYS student as far as I can see, standing around and looking embarassed.
I like Latham. But it's hard to turn down really selective NYC firms (filled with HYS grads) for someplace which appears so unselective. Which is funny, because I don't think that's really the case: several at my T14 didn't get a callback. (And I know the Hofstra people are at the top of their class. Maybe it's a commitment to NYC law schools, I don't know.)
Still: the Latham people just didn't seem as sharp or well-credentialled. And I don't want people to think I went to Latham because it best NYC firm I got into.
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Date: November 7th, 2007 7:46 PM Author: Floppy juggernaut 95% of your success in law is based on other peoples' opinions of you, so this sounds like a good, well reasoned choice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8866754) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 8:22 PM Author: Sticky genital piercing You CLEARLY wouldn't fit in at Latham. If you want a place to brag about your prestige, you belong over at Sullivan or another firm of that ilk. There were a bunch of non-T14 people in my summer class and they were generally bright and had amazing resumes. But if you are still too busy basking in the glory of your LSAT score, then you really belong at another firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8866884) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 9:49 PM Author: Pearl potus persian this posts reeks of brooklyn law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8867371) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 11:58 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people Easy, tiger. When did I brag or mention my LSAT score?
My point is that some firms are more selective than others, and the selective firms are usually more popular among law students. That doesn't mean that S&C is better than Proskauer Rose. But very few people choose the later over the former. If you went to Proskauer, many people would assume that you weren't able to get into a firm like Latham, Debevoise, etc. And I didn't get the sense that a lot of the people at the Big Event had offers from Cravath (or even Debevoise, OP aside).
Look, the legal profession is elitist. I know it doesn't make sense that lazy YLS students can get the better offer than the top of Hofstra's class. But I don't want limit myself professionally for bucking the conventional wisdom.
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Date: November 8th, 2007 1:06 AM Author: Umber center I can't speak for others, but I was there, and I already turned down my Cravath offer. While the legal profession is certainly prestige-conscious, I think most law students overestimate the importance of Vault rankings (which is understandable, since we have little else to go on).
Fortunately, I have several friends at firms in NY who talked sense into me before I accepted an offer at a firm that would make me miserable. The fact is, most young associates don't last long in Biglaw, no matter how prestigious the firm. It seems to me that rather than looking at rankings based on several factors that can make an associate worse off (PPP, for example), students should really just be looking for a place where they can survive... and even, ideally, enjoy the practice of law. |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 8:53 AM Author: wonderful hospital cumskin Amen. There were some students at the Latham Diversity Weekend in San Francisco who had worked at V3 firms after their 1L years and are now specifically choosing Latham because they know how intense those firms are and want a place that is not as crazy. Good decision. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8868584) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 3:45 PM Author: Umber center I actually turned down Latham, too, for a less prestigious place. The fact is, my resume is already prestigious (top school, LR, hopefully honors), so it should be clear that I could have gone to a higher-ranked firm. Instead, I'm going to a firm that has the practice group and the work that I want, along with people I actually think I would be friends with. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869970) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 11:33 AM Author: Twinkling queen of the night wagecucks I think what he was getting at is that LSAT is the biggest predicter of where you will get in to law school, and you are still using that to determine who belongs at your firm. I was at the Big Event and the two 2Ls that I spoke with most were considering Latham vs. Sullivan and Cleary, respectively. Also, for what it is worth, they were both from non-T14s.
I couldn't see someone calling Latham unselective, considering that it is ranked in the top 10 and has a very strong NY practice of 400+ attorneys. |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 12:41 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people Don't get me wrong: Latham is great. But it's highly ranked because it dominates in California. That's where most of its SCOTUS clerks (mentioned below) are going. And while the SF event (above) had people with 1L firm jobs, it didn't seem like many fit that profile in NY. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869272) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 12:48 PM Author: Maroon impertinent meetinghouse tattoo agreed. Great firm, awesome LA firm, growing in NY but not yet comprable to the home grown big guns. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869293) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 9:55 PM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge Sounds like you should go to simpson you douche.
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Date: November 7th, 2007 10:05 PM Author: Pearl potus persian admit it: it sucks when you get stuck writing a brief with a Seton Hall kid. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8867452) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 10:11 PM Author: dashing insecure roast beef lodge theres only one person from seton hall that I know of. but who knows, everyone does good work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8867478) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 12:05 AM Author: bateful sooty set main people As far as I could tell, there's a pretty big discrepancy between your description and the attendance at The Big Event.
I do concede that there were quite a few NYU/CLS students there. Then again, what NYC office doesn't have a lot of NYU/CLS students? And I'm not sure that the CLS students were Stone or Kent Scholars, etc. |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 11:54 AM Author: Nubile trailer park hunting ground maybe Stone/Kent scholars should wear signs or hats to make you feel more comfortable (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869088) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 12:31 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people Maybe the Kent scholars should wear crowns?
Actually, I'd feel more comfortable if that info was on the attorney biographies, like it on all other firm web pages. |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 12:32 PM Author: flatulent fragrant university Your are the epitome of douchebag. Complete clown penis. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869239) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 12:40 PM Author: Nubile trailer park hunting ground Disagree. The guy doesn't want to work with the morons that lurk at the median of CLS and NYU. I wholeheartedly support him in this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869266) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 1:03 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people That's right. I want to work with selective law students, which usually have top grades at top law schools.
I never said that someone below the median at CLS is better than top 5% at Hofstra (that didn't transfer). I wouldn't care about the Hofstra crowd if I felt that the NYU/CLS/etc. people also had good grades. But I'm not sure if that's the case. And it raises questions if selective students aren't going to Latham NY. |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 1:13 PM Author: navy costumed laser beams spot I don't really see how this reasoning makes sense unless you plan to impress 2Ls for the duration of your career. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869368) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 1:17 PM Author: Maroon impertinent meetinghouse tattoo believe it or not, at some point your skills, intelligence, and personality will weigh more than the law school you happened to attend. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869386) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 1:36 PM Author: Ivory mentally impaired kitty cat community account My best friend summered at Latham and is a Hamilton fellow & Kent scholar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869444) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 1:49 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people In NY? Not clerking? Going back after graduation? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869475) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 3:17 PM Author: Ivory mentally impaired kitty cat community account Yes in NY. I won't answer the other questions b/c I don't wan to risk outing him/her. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869792) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 3:25 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people Fair enough. And I was talking generally about people who seem to be choosing Latham, not specifics. I don't doubt that there are very good law students from Columbia that choose Latham.
But you do see how someone who is going to clerk isn't necessarily the best example here. |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 3:32 PM Author: Ivory mentally impaired kitty cat community account I'm not sure I understand. Wouldn't people that are highly qualified and going to clerk be considered excellent applicants that any firm would be proud to call their own? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869884) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 3:40 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people Absolutely.
But people who clerk often don't go back to where they spent their 2L summer. Sometimes they do another SA gig before the clerkship starts; other times they reinterview at the end of their clerkship.
As a result: people who go to clerk MAY be making less of a commitment to Latham, and are more likely to be choosing the place with the best summer/awesome Scottsdale trip. |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 3:46 PM Author: Ivory mentally impaired kitty cat community account I think that is a stretch since when you are picking a 2L firm: 1) you don't know if, when, or where you will get a clerkship, 2) nobody feels like re-interviewing if they can pick the right firm the first time, 3) by your rationale, the elite people that go to DPW/Cravath/etc shouldn't count in the "SA prestige-o-meter" because they are going to clerk. I'm not saying Latham is the #1 firm in NY, I'm just saying that your reason for criticizing them seems really flawed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869981) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 6:34 PM Author: opaque diverse turdskin 1): Fair point.
2): Re-interviewing as a 3L isn't that hard. Sometimes people want the fun city experience. Granted, your friend is already in NYC--it would be more of a question of s/he went to SF/LA/Newport Beach.
On the other hand--if s/he want to spend an extravagant NYC summer then work elsewhere, that's a reason to pick L&W.
3): That goes to my original point: people tend to pick from among the most selective firms that admitted them. It's unusual not to do so. Then again, it's easier to buck the trend if you are practically putting off making a firm decision. |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 2:24 PM Author: splenetic blathering striped hyena FLAME! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869596) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 10:21 PM Author: navy costumed laser beams spot No, what sucks is when I get stuck working across from one of the insufferable douches that seem to be overrepresented at many other firms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8867537) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 10:08 PM Author: Pearl potus persian why not go work at GDC NY with all median and below median people from top schools? your coworkers will have at least school prestige, and their laziness/stupidity means you should be able to PWN them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8867463) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 10:24 PM Author: flatulent fragrant university Median at NCC can get Latham. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8867552) |
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Date: November 7th, 2007 10:31 PM Author: Pearl potus persian well duh, but GDC is incredibly school snobby despite their preference for the bottom of the class at Cornell. Latham has the confidence to hire top of the class at TTTs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8867577) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 11:43 AM Author: tantric ultramarine business firm cuckold Last year Latham got six SCOTUS clerks from one term. I don't think they have a problem in the prestige department.
http://www.abovethelaw.com/2006/10/last_years_supreme_court_clerk.php |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 12:57 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people I'm talking about a specific Latham office. Your point would be much more relevant if any of the SCOTUS clerks went to NY (which none did). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869324) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 2:32 PM Author: adventurous orange menage gaming laptop You are going to be deeply, deeply disappointed if you go to any NYC firm expecting to work with uniformly bright people. There are really smart CLS people going to DPW and Cravath, but there are also really smart CLS people going to Akin Gump, Milbank and Hughes Hubbard. There are dumb CLS people at all of these firms as well, and some really dumb kids at, for example, STB and CSM.
There are definitely some people here who are as stupid as you are and chase prestige, but many others had different priorities.
Good luck in life with this attitude.
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Date: November 8th, 2007 2:40 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people I really appreciate that someone under the moniker "Skadden08" is advising me to not choose prestige, but follow different priorities. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869640) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 2:44 PM Author: adventurous orange menage gaming laptop I turned down CSM and S&C to take Skadden, and I did this because of one of their niche litigation groups that other NYC firms don't really offer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869659) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 2:50 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people Yes, choosing among three of Vault's top five prestige-ranked firms shows your commitment to not choosing prestige and following other priorities.
But it was really the niche litigation group (so much of a niche that it's not practice anywhere else in NYC) that made the difference. |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 3:04 PM Author: adventurous orange menage gaming laptop Do you have any idea how Skadden is structured compared to other firms?
Do you know anything about the practice of law besides Vault Rankings/ |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 3:11 PM Author: bateful sooty set main people *yawns* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8869762) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 5:28 PM Author: wonderful hospital cumskin There seems to be very little overall in this thread about Debevoise. On the whole are Latham and Debevoise comparable prestige-wise? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8870444) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 5:33 PM Author: sable vivacious coldplay fan think about the question you are asking and the audience. what the hell do you want? a straight answer? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8870465) |
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Date: November 8th, 2007 6:38 PM Author: opaque diverse turdskin Nationally, Latham is more prestigious.
Latham's NY office does work that is at least as good as Debevoise. Actually, I think they do better work. Compare the rankings on Chambers and Partners.
Debevoise is more popular with law students, and hence is harder to get a job from (I think). Don't ask me why, though. |
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Date: November 9th, 2007 10:25 AM Author: Snowy Self-centered Becky Halford I'm not sure by what measure Latham is supposed to be more presitigious. It certainly isn't in NY, or internationally. I agree that it's more prestigious in California, and since "nationallly" in terms of law basically means NY, WA, and CA, perhaps you have a point.
There's not much to dislike about Debevoise. |
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Date: November 9th, 2007 11:32 AM Author: translucent cruise ship alpha other than the fact that it's a snooty, passive aggressive place.
there are a few debevoise laterals at my firm and they are weirdos. the people i know from law school who choose it too were the type who would be nice to you in your face but secretly look down on you. |
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Date: November 9th, 2007 11:46 AM Author: Snowy Self-centered Becky Halford So the weirdos have left Debevoise, and feel more comfortable at your firm? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8873650) |
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Date: November 9th, 2007 3:57 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy nofapping sweet tailpipe or maybe the even weirder weirdos forced them out
didn't get a comfortable feel from debevoise at all... seemed like a bunch people practicing law in a self-absorbed meta-narrative... don't ask me why this is or to explain this... |
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Date: November 9th, 2007 5:10 PM Author: Geriatric tank orchestra pit The people I met from Debevoise were by far the most obnoxious, annoying group of people that I interviewed with of any firm. I would take any # of firms, including Latham, over Deb.
And yes, I realize everybody has a different experience at interviews. I just thought the people at Deb were particularly horrible. |
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Date: November 10th, 2007 1:42 AM Author: cracking chest-beating coffee pot house Sounds like someone got dinged badly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8876751) |
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Date: November 10th, 2007 12:24 PM Author: Histrionic Mauve Locale Cuckoldry always the assumption... but not necessarily
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Date: November 10th, 2007 1:55 AM Author: cracking chest-beating coffee pot house Here is my take (I am midlevel at another Vault 5 firm) 1. Debevoise has more prestige and is more selective 2. People at Debevoise tend to be reserved, nice, and intellectual.Some people have said that they are snooty, but I think that they may just be taking their quietness the wrong way. People at Latham are a bit more animated and frat-like..but nice in general. My friends at Latham seem to go out with their colleagues a lot. 3. The people I know at Debevoise (several)are very happy with the firm and their jobs. The results at Latham are a bit mixed. 4. Both firms are better than most when it comes to giving juniors responsibility, but Debevoise seems a bit better than Latham in this regard.
I gave Debevoise serious consideration during law school, but opted to choose my firm because of a perceived "prestige" differential. If I had to do it over again, I would give Debevoise a closer look....I'm a big fan.
PS If summers are staying late, it is a good sign. It means that they are getting good work...this will be important as a junior.
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Date: November 10th, 2007 2:04 AM Author: navy costumed laser beams spot If you're working late as a summer because it was something you wanted and you asked for, that's one thing. If you're working late because you were pressured into it, then that's just sad, whether it's "good" work or not.
It's one of your last "fun" summers, enjoy it while it lasts. Whether you decide to do work or slack off is not that important -- as long as you have the option. |
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Date: November 10th, 2007 2:06 AM Author: cracking chest-beating coffee pot house I agree. Though, I am guessing that the people who stayed late did so on their own accord because they were really into their assignments or did so once or twice because of important deadlines. No firm would make their summers stay late on a regular basis. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8876839) |
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Date: November 10th, 2007 8:11 AM Author: Offensive slippery space ladyboy rl170, what is your opinion of DPW? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8876990) |
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Date: November 10th, 2007 10:24 AM Author: appetizing home rl 170, if you are still around, what is your opinion of STB as well? Especially in regards to giving responsiblity to its juniors, relative to other firms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)#8877130) |