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NSAM, 2 legitimate Qs about Indonesia
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Date: November 24th, 2025 8:37 AM Author: startled dashing point pozpig (1) Tell me how you view the events of September and October 1965. As a a starting point, are you more of a Sukarno or Suharto sympathizer ? Is it good thing or a bad thing that the G30S/PKI coup failed? (2) Have you either seen or read The Year Of Living Dangerously? If so, rate it (both of them if you have both read and seen it). I'm sincerely interested to hear your opinions. Plz don't make me regret engaging in good faith. |
Date: November 24th, 2025 8:44 AM Author: Ruby hairy legs NSAM-free thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49455547) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 8:46 AM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant 1. I wrote a long paper on it once. It was almost all just neighbors killing neighbors. The army did very little except send pickup trucks at night to collect anyone who want to kill commies. "You know who they are better then we do" they told them.
2. Never saw the whole thing but it's true that people were starving that year, and Sukarno by that time was a much different and less effective leader than he had been 20 years earlier. Not saying the deaths were good but suharto boosted the economy for sure |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 8:47 AM Author: passionate zombie-like internal respiration half-breed ah ni hao comrade, I wite rong papuh! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49455558) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 8:49 AM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornell_Paper (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49455563) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 8:54 AM Author: startled dashing point pozpig if you believe it I think they were both banned from Indo for life and have never been un-banned |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 8:56 AM Author: startled dashing point pozpig I personally think if the coup had succeeded then or a second attempt later had succeeded (which might have happened if the New Order people hadn't offed a bunch of commies after the first coup), the PKI probably comes to power and the history of the world changes dramatically (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49455576) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 11:02 AM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant There would be no Vietnam war. Indonesia convinced all the hawks in Washington that we could defeat Vietnamese communism (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49455904) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 11:17 AM Author: startled dashing point pozpig yes and therefore most if not all of SE Asia e.g. Thailand would have fallen to Communism and Communism would have gained major momentum world-wide - Domino Theory was not wrong (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49455957) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 11:27 AM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant It wouldn't be Soviet communism though, I don't think. Indonesia was part of the non-aligned movement and the PKI was its own thing. We'd have three big communist parties instead of just two (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49455997) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 11:43 AM Author: startled dashing point pozpig the non-aligned movement was just tactical camouflage for the ultimately pro-Soviet alignment and there was nothing "own thing" about the PKI, the only issue with the PKI was whether it would be Moscow-aligned or Beijing-aligned (it followed the orthodox Moscow line until close towards the end when Beijing covertly sent them a lot of weapons hidden in other cargo) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 11:48 AM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant It was poor and had nothing to trade with its allies though. Vietnam had the same issue. All the Soviets really got from them was the port at Haiphong, they didn't really need more rice and oil. If there were no war I'm not sure the USSR would have invested one penny in SE Asia at all (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49456074) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 8:56 AM Author: startled dashing point pozpig as someone who professes to be interested in Indonesia you should at least watch the film and probably read the book (it's excellent) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49455577) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 2:50 PM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant Indonesians don't like that they used a white woman to portray an Indonesian man, and I believe it's also an Australian production, and Indonesians hate Australians. I avoided it because I felt it would stigmatize me if I ever mentioned it to anyone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49456730) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 8:59 AM Author: embarrassed to the bone double fault forum Sounds like you guys know the history a lot better than I do, but I thought this was interesting to watch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49455582) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 9:02 AM Author: startled dashing point pozpig I've seen it, great documentary on its own terms, important to watch (great in terms of witnessing what happened on the ground, but not much there in terms of understanding why this mass killing started and who was killing whom and why, it was "and then one day all of a sudden" in that way - but the first thing is what it wanted to do, and it was great at that) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 11:30 AM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant I feel like I met some of those people before the movie came out, and I can't watch more than a few minutes of it. It was shocking to me how many average folks remembered that event and said things were better when suharto was in charge. No one ever told me they participated in the killings but no one seemed to think they were bad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49456007) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 9:51 AM Author: aqua low-t rehab sandwich Have any of the mastermen itt read The Jakarta Method (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49455723) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 11:21 AM Author: startled dashing point pozpig sounds like some shitlib bed-wetting tome whining plaintively about the nasty men killing the nice communists (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49455975) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 11:32 AM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant If I pick up another book on this topic it will be written by this author:
https://history.ucla.edu/person/geoffrey-robinson/
If you want good, clear, no-bullshit academic writing he's probably the best right now. His book on political violence in Bali is outstanding |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 11:45 AM Author: startled dashing point pozpig except Robinson is seriously evangelical and quasi-religious about his convictions, while being completely blind to much of the context of why things happened and people did things and he would be completely stunned to learn that a country falling to communism might not be a good thing and might also cause an immense amount of human misery, he would be shocked to discover such a thing because it is so alien to his frame of reference so he's both a zealot and very narrow and blinkered about it |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 11:53 AM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant In his book on Bali he shreds all the leftist accounts of what happened there in the 60s. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49456089) |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 2:34 PM Author: startled dashing point pozpig ignore my comment above, I confused your Geoffrey Robinson with this Geoffrey Robertson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Robertson will check out your guy and his book on Bali, ty |
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Date: November 24th, 2025 2:42 PM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant Now that I think about it, what I researched at the time I went into this was what happened in the upper echelons. Sukarno wasn't overthrown right away, but a bunch of generals were assassinated. I think one got thrown down a well. IIRC they convinced Sukarno to make some radio announcements and remain as the titular head of state until they could replace him with Suharto.
What really made any of that possible was the fact that Indonesia's constitution was still being drafted while this was all happening. There was no language in place that clarified how heads of state would be chosen.
This was still relevant at the time because the Indonesian military had its own political party called Golkar, and Suharto eventually gave up his military titles and simply ruled as a member of the Golkar party. After Suharto was overthrown a lot of people were wondering what to do about Golkar, and I believe it was eventually banned or broken up. But now I see in the news that it's BACK. So maybe all that shit I learned will be relevant again IDK |
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Date: November 25th, 2025 2:28 PM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant Fascinating responses here, because no two are the same. That's my experience as well. Furthermore no one sounds like an idealogue or programmed idiot. Whether they are pro- or anti -Suharto, they all have legit arguments. That ration rice they are talking about was imported from Vietnam and I've had it. It's really bad
https://x.com/thisisyudhis/status/1988327276141023355?t=_oc8iN4q_1peBp-qtFI1JA&s=19 |
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Date: November 25th, 2025 2:33 PM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant https://x.com/PatimahWijayan3/status/1989625342915682371?t=xEvIIleZwSysnh0i1_uZGg&s=19 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49459795) |
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Date: November 25th, 2025 2:35 PM Author: razzle-dazzle internet-worthy pit immigrant https://x.com/seal_fae_drawnt/status/1989865154809663730?t=A30latAIMmnuNSD-AVzmFw&s=19 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5801720&forum_id=2).#49459800) |