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Sued a large apartment complex for a buddy and they tried to fuck him again
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| Violet alpha | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| Drunken Corner | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| red aromatic heaven faggot firefighter | 10/29/25 |
| Vivacious Multi-billionaire Forum | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| Motley Coldplay Fan Step-uncle's House | 10/30/25 |
| nubile bipolar gaping | 10/29/25 |
| irradiated school | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| burgundy community account | 10/30/25 |
| irradiated school | 10/30/25 |
| Motley Coldplay Fan Step-uncle's House | 10/30/25 |
| Blue Arousing Box Office | 10/30/25 |
| splenetic new version nibblets | 10/30/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/31/25 |
| dull parlor | 10/30/25 |
| nubile bipolar gaping | 10/31/25 |
| Vivacious Multi-billionaire Forum | 10/31/25 |
| iridescent provocative home indirect expression | 10/30/25 |
| Violet alpha | 10/29/25 |
| Hairraiser Church Building | 10/29/25 |
| Alcoholic narrow-minded incel field | 10/30/25 |
| citrine wonderful idea he suggested lettuce | 10/29/25 |
| lake bat-shit-crazy goal in life stag film | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| Violet alpha | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| Alcoholic Round Eye Electric Furnace | 10/29/25 |
| Appetizing sanctuary deer antler | 10/29/25 |
| Violet alpha | 10/30/25 |
| Charismatic ruddy indian lodge knife | 10/30/25 |
| razzmatazz jet-lagged native wrinkle | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| razzmatazz jet-lagged native wrinkle | 10/30/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/30/25 |
| Charismatic ruddy indian lodge knife | 10/30/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/30/25 |
| Galvanic lime shitlib | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| low-t university | 10/29/25 |
| Mustard Excitant Theater Preventive Strike | 10/31/25 |
| red aromatic heaven faggot firefighter | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| red aromatic heaven faggot firefighter | 10/29/25 |
| Thriller roast beef business firm | 10/29/25 |
| Motley Coldplay Fan Step-uncle's House | 10/29/25 |
| iridescent provocative home indirect expression | 10/30/25 |
| medicated stage liquid oxygen | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| medicated stage liquid oxygen | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| 180 jewess nursing home | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| irradiated school | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| Charismatic ruddy indian lodge knife | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| splenetic new version nibblets | 10/29/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/29/25 |
| splenetic new version nibblets | 10/30/25 |
| irradiated school | 10/30/25 |
| Dark Filthpig | 10/30/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/30/25 |
| Fragrant school cafeteria degenerate | 10/30/25 |
| Dark Filthpig | 10/30/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/30/25 |
| Charismatic ruddy indian lodge knife | 10/30/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/30/25 |
| Mind-boggling Ultramarine Sandwich Yarmulke | 10/30/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/30/25 |
| flesh dopamine site | 10/30/25 |
| federal salmon halford | 10/30/25 |
| Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat | 10/31/25 |
| Razzle-dazzle sienna range friendly grandma | 10/31/25 |
| WWED: What Would Emilio Do? | 11/03/25 |
Poast new message in this thread
Date: October 29th, 2025 1:09 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat My buddy moved out of a brand new apartment and they kept his deposit because they said the carpet was damaged and needed to be replaced. The carpet in fact looked basically new, and Georgia won’t allow LLs to keep deposits even for normal wear and tear anyway. So I sued for him, and did it for free because he was just going to let it go, which I assume they count on everyone doing when they pull this scam. Georgia gives treble damages.
Then these fuckers don’t answer the lawsuit at all. Then months later my buddy gets a check for the remainder of the deposit not taken for carpet, which is supposed to be returned within like 30 days. So they wrongfully withheld again after being sued for wrongful withholding just to be cute. And then I get to looking at the itemized fees and stuff and found out they were just charging a made up monthly fee too.
So I look up reviews online seeing if there’s a pattern of all this shit and I find all kinds of reviews saying the same shit from tenants all over the place in different apartments owned by the same company. So I amended the complaint they never answered and added punitives and now I’m going to make this the trial of the century hopefully because fuck these scheming landlords. Gonna get justice for the other tenants who couldn’t afford to sue. |
Date: October 29th, 2025 1:14 PM Author: Violet alpha it's amazing how many landlords get away with this crap (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49384938) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:18 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat And they’re like “oh we’ll just ignore the occasional lawsuit because a default judgment of treble damages is a drop in the bucket compared to what we’re making keeping all these deposits.” I’m going to ask for millions in punitives (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49384950) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:20 PM Author: Drunken Corner you gotta get a low paid property manager to be your witness and reveal the manual or emails where his higher ups tell him to keep security deposits for everyone.
sounds like a grisham novel |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:22 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat It’s kinda exciting. I will make this into a Netflix movie if it turns into something (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49384958) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:53 PM Author: red aromatic heaven faggot firefighter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385013) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 2:13 PM Author: Vivacious Multi-billionaire Forum Let's do it, bro. Happy to help. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385076) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 2:15 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385090) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 2:10 PM Author: Motley Coldplay Fan Step-uncle's House (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388215) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 9:16 PM Author: nubile bipolar gaping Security Deposit starring Nicolas Cage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49386274) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 9:16 PM Author: irradiated school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49386275) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 10:36 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49386499) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 12:18 PM Author: burgundy community account Update: Just need $50k to get this across the finish line. In exchange you can meet Nicholas Cage and hang out on the set when we're not filming. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49387841) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 1:23 PM Author: irradiated school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388063) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 2:09 PM Author: Motley Coldplay Fan Step-uncle's House (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388214) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 10:36 PM Author: Blue Arousing Box Office Security Deposit 2: Treble or Nothing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49389403) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 10:40 PM Author: splenetic new version nibblets (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49389408) |
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Date: October 31st, 2025 1:56 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49390687) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 10:58 PM Author: dull parlor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49389434) |
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Date: October 31st, 2025 1:29 AM Author: nubile bipolar gaping https://grok.com/imagine/post/8d850a32-9404-4585-a2ad-09f104b5a2de (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49389573) |
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Date: October 31st, 2025 4:24 AM Author: Vivacious Multi-billionaire Forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49389672) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 12:07 PM Author: iridescent provocative home indirect expression (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49387808) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:24 PM Author: Violet alpha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49384961) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 2:46 PM Author: Hairraiser Church Building (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385176) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 3:05 PM Author: Alcoholic narrow-minded incel field I got to one though his LLC several years ago under the Uniform Fraudulent Transfer Act. He started fucking tenants as a sale approached, and he thought he'd just hide behind the LLC. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388355) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:16 PM Author: citrine wonderful idea he suggested lettuce cool it w the antisemitism (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49384941) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:23 PM Author: lake bat-shit-crazy goal in life stag film You can’t get millions in punitives from a few thousand dollar deposit controversy.
Amend to make it a class action with your buddy as the class rep.
This is legal advice. |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:25 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat Never done a class action but I will look into this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49384964) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:26 PM Author: Violet alpha it's interesting there arent class actions for security deposit fraud against even large LLs. i assume it's still not worth it for pi lawyers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49384965) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:28 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat No way this is worth it for anyone normal. I take all kinds of garbage cases hoping I’ll get one to go to trial and get trial experience. Trial experience is worth more than the time and money to me (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49384972) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 4:22 PM Author: Alcoholic Round Eye Electric Furnace Attaboy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385478) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 8:32 PM Author: Appetizing sanctuary deer antler No commonality. Every dispute is different. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49386173) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 12:15 PM Author: Violet alpha could a better lawyer than you come up w a commonality argument? i see your point, but there's got to be a more creative way to make them seem the same (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49387829) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 3:06 PM Author: Charismatic ruddy indian lodge knife You’d want to allege the security deposit withholdings were a practice or policy by the defendant that can be shown through common evidence. They withheld a security deposit for X reason every time someone left, and X reason violates statute Y. Or maybe Defbro had a policy of not adhereing to a statutory requirement every single time they withheld security deposits for whatever reason they withheld it (so the reason they withheld it wasn’t important)
It can be done but you need to frame it carefully.
Can’t allege that plaintiff had his security deposit withheld for carpet cleaning and that therefore all security deposit withholdings for all the renters are therefore illegal because it requires determinations of why the security deposit was withheld for each class member which is an individualized issue. |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:34 PM Author: razzmatazz jet-lagged native wrinkle The same ownership group probably owns more than one building. He should be trolling for all those other poor schmucks who've been screwed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49384983) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:46 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat What’s the best way to attempt this? Can I get tenant contact info through discovery and then try to turn the case into a class action? I know nothing about class actions at all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49384999) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 12:37 PM Author: razzmatazz jet-lagged native wrinkle I know nothing about class actions. A shitlaw king would do 1 of 2 things:
1. Stick flyers on every car and under every door in the block/building
2. Find one tenant in each building who can help you recruit more |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 3:29 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat sounds like a movie scene (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388398) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 3:13 PM Author: Charismatic ruddy indian lodge knife In discovery see if you can get any policies they have wrt security deposits. If on its face it contains any violation of a statute in your jdx then that would be grroubds to amend for a class. Doubt you’d have grounds to get a list of all tenants in an individual suit though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388368) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 3:19 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388379) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:44 PM Author: Galvanic lime shitlib Very tsinah-esque OP but keep fighting the good fight. landlords are ((scum)) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49384995) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:52 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat I love suing landlords. I’m involved in another case against a true slumlord that is probably going to trial. I also hate insurance companies and hospitals. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385010) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 4:28 PM Author: low-t university (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385505) |
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Date: October 31st, 2025 11:01 AM Author: Mustard Excitant Theater Preventive Strike Wait until you see the shit dentists try to pull (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49390106) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:55 PM Author: red aromatic heaven faggot firefighter hey scholly I really want to hear about this as it unfolds, can you post some update threads as things happen, or post in this thread, I think it could be 180 contents, you're a 180 poaster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385018) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 1:58 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat Will do. I’ve been collaborating behind the scenes on a lot of different xo content that we may share at some point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385024) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 2:01 PM Author: red aromatic heaven faggot firefighter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385029) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 2:10 PM Author: Thriller roast beef business firm 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385068) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 2:17 PM Author: Motley Coldplay Fan Step-uncle's House (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385097) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 12:08 PM Author: iridescent provocative home indirect expression (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49387809) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 4:53 PM Author: medicated stage liquid oxygen Summon epah and get his advice on spinning it up into a bigger class action suit, he knows how to do that.
I assume landlords have each building in its own LLC but I'm sure with the power of xo's legal minds you can lump them all together and get million$$$$ |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 4:56 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat I would definitely appreciate EPAH’s advice. And anyone else who wants to chime in (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385583) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 5:05 PM Author: medicated stage liquid oxygen Make a new thread title and summon him, he may be fucking a mud or surfing or slicing a preteen's dick so may not read this thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385607) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 5:15 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat Done (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385636) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 5:01 PM Author: 180 jewess nursing home Jimmy McGill's 15th Year of 1L tp (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385598) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 5:16 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat The best year yet LFGooooooo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385637) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 5:07 PM Author: irradiated school fucking 180, scholarship fighting the good fight (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385613) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 5:16 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385638) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 5:12 PM Author: Charismatic ruddy indian lodge knife Class action would be hard because individualized issues would predominate. Have to determine the reason that the LL kept X portion of the security deposit for each class member, and the amount kept would likely also vary.
Now if that other fee/ charge that was mentioned upthread applied to all tenants and was illegal that could be a class |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 5:17 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat Ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49385639) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 9:11 PM Author: splenetic new version nibblets happy to see your post, brother - wishing you success in your pursuit of JUSTICE (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49386263) |
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Date: October 29th, 2025 10:38 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat Ty brother. I’m actually here every day cycling through an army of 300 alts starting feuds with myself and other nonsense. I like to poast about justice on this account (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49386508) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 7:26 PM Author: splenetic new version nibblets (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49389048) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 7:26 PM Author: irradiated school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49389049) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 12:11 PM Author: Dark Filthpig if they didnt answer wtf didnt u file for default faggot
and wtf is punitive damages for a contract dispute, i thought there's no punitives for contracts
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Date: October 30th, 2025 1:01 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat 1. Because that would’ve ended it and that’s what they wanted me to do, to take the measly treble damages on the original withholding. And then they continue their little scam having only lost a tiny fraction of what they’re making
2. Because they added another count of wrongful withholding by sending the remainder months after the lawsuit
3. Because I discovered there’s a fraudulent fee
There are punitives on willful misconduct, malice, fraud, etc. |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 1:05 PM Author: Fragrant school cafeteria degenerate 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49387993) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 2:07 PM Author: Dark Filthpig lol thanks for confirming you are jewish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388203) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 2:33 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat lol im a redneck in rural georgia. this is how you shitlaw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388284) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 3:01 PM Author: Charismatic ruddy indian lodge knife I have never gotten punitives on default for a (statutory) fraud case. I’ve only defaulted 2-3 in that situation but judges here never give me the multiplier. Which really doesn’t matter because if I am defaulting it’s usually not a good sign for collectibility.
actually did get them once in federal court. Judges much smarter there. |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 3:17 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat I got 8 figure punitives on one default case a few years ago. Haven’t had this situation come up again until now. That other case was way worse though. Ended up taking his house and salary for a year and he was uncollectible after that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388375) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 3:08 PM Author: Mind-boggling Ultramarine Sandwich Yarmulke 180 a million. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388362) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 3:29 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388397) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 3:17 PM Author: flesh dopamine site (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49388374) |
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Date: October 30th, 2025 10:46 PM Author: federal salmon halford (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49389415) |
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Date: October 31st, 2025 1:59 PM Author: Glittery Ruby Weed Whacker Kitty Cat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49390705) |
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Date: October 31st, 2025 3:49 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle sienna range friendly grandma (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5791259&forum_id=2).#49389661) |
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Date: November 3rd, 2025 9:25 AM Author: WWED: What Would Emilio Do? (gunneratttt) i've always dreamed of doing this.
it seems like such a slam dunk. most states have treble damages and landlords withholding security deposits unlawfully is common practice. |