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Book rec for boys ?

any books you read or wish you had read in high school? look...
Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain
  12/18/25
I would have enjoyed sword and sorcery fantasy. Poul Anderso...
exhilarant filthpig
  12/18/25
https://www.ebay.com/itm/276841789712? Reasonable price, ...
concupiscible alcoholic hissy fit marketing idea
  12/18/25
...
Honey-headed Pozpig
  12/18/25
"There's a trip to the farmers market and time for toys...
Razzmatazz kitchen
  12/19/25
this is now forever in my search history I want you dead,...
Razzmatazz kitchen
  12/19/25
mein kampf for late night reads that give you a good feel
medicated house
  12/18/25
A few offhand: -On the Shortness of Life - Seneca -Sta...
Ultramarine Shrine
  12/18/25
https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3922329&mc=32&a...
Razzmatazz kitchen
  12/19/25
or have the kid wake up xmas morning to an ACTUAL bonfire of...
bonkers state
  12/19/25
The Illustrated Man Odyssey The International Jew 1984 M...
Appetizing spot
  12/18/25
Hatchet, My Side of the Mountain for starters
Dashing smoky step-uncle's house
  12/18/25
i think my side of the mountain was one of his summer readin...
Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain
  12/18/25
Where the Red Fern Grows, All Quiet on the Western Front, Ce...
Dashing smoky step-uncle's house
  12/18/25
they did lord of the flies already. ill look up some of your...
Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain
  12/18/25
180
Dashing smoky step-uncle's house
  12/18/25
The eyes and the impossible sourdough heart of samurai...
Comical clear den rigor
  12/18/25
rocket boys is 180
Cerebral glassy theater stage psychic
  12/18/25
Every kid should read. It’s top of that list imo
Comical clear den rigor
  12/18/25
...
Cerebral glassy theater stage psychic
  12/19/25
weird group called the "rocket boys" ran the party...
bonkers state
  12/22/25
CR GOAT status books, but would one be "past" thos...
Supple Church Building
  12/18/25
he’s 12/7th grade so i said high school since that&rsq...
Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain
  12/18/25
The Swimming-Pool Library (fulano)
zippy stead
  12/18/25
ty for the recs, this is helpful i just asked him what bo...
Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain
  12/18/25
Waste of time unless he's secretly 30+ years old and has rea...
Lascivious carnelian menage
  12/18/25
seconding count of monte cristo three musketeers is also ...
Disrespectful disturbing hominid
  12/18/25
JackTales 🤡😳
aphrodisiac theatre
  12/18/25
those are for reading out loud , clown
Comical clear den rigor
  12/18/25
The Boy with Pink Hair by Perez Hilton https://www.amazon...
Glittery Resort
  12/18/25
Quo Vadis (Sienkiewicz) We Were Soldiers Once… And...
Electric range
  12/18/25
are you seriously recommending a book on manhood written by ...
Razzle-dazzle citrine church
  12/18/25
I’m not even sure which author you’re talking ab...
Electric range
  12/18/25
lol
Razzle-dazzle citrine church
  12/18/25
he doesn't like the term gay or homo and instead prefers &qu...
silver nofapping striped hyena
  12/21/25
Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage 18000
Cerebral glassy theater stage psychic
  12/18/25
No young man of any worth can finish that and not have a bet...
Electric range
  12/18/25
James Bond novels Conan (only read the flemming and howard...
Jet aromatic hall
  12/18/25
The first Bond novel is so good. Amazing call.
Ultramarine Shrine
  12/18/25
Once I got into the first one I burned through the rest (12 ...
Jet aromatic hall
  12/18/25
Any chance you can recommend your top 5? I need some new boo...
Ultramarine Shrine
  12/18/25
1. Goldfinger 2. Moonraker 3. Casino Royale 4. From Russ...
Jet aromatic hall
  12/19/25
tyft. I loved Moonraker. Will check out Goldfinger next I th...
Ultramarine Shrine
  12/21/25
cr
Cerebral glassy theater stage psychic
  12/18/25
Anabasis
Ebony marvelous parlour karate
  12/18/25
...
Razzle-dazzle citrine church
  12/18/25
Flowers for Algernon
beady-eyed field
  12/18/25
The Lessons of History - Will & Ariel Durant Man's Sear...
Razzle-dazzle citrine church
  12/18/25
a song of ice and fire. I'm not a fantasy guy and I loved it...
dead incel station
  12/18/25
Patrick O'Byrne's Master and Commander and related books in ...
Racy candlestick maker chapel
  12/18/25
Hardy Boys (how old is your kid?) Zen and the Art of Motorc...
Floppy mischievous genital piercing
  12/18/25
> Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance lol
Razzle-dazzle citrine church
  12/18/25
read that, among others, for my contemporary thought class i...
Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain
  12/18/25
zorba the greek
Cerebral glassy theater stage psychic
  12/18/25
...
Electric range
  12/18/25
Several good recs already upthread. Some others: The Thin...
Supple Church Building
  12/18/25
Cr. list I feel like The Things They Carried got a bit ov...
Electric range
  12/18/25
The Things They Carried is the most classic writer's favorit...
purple idea he suggested
  12/18/25
...
Supple Church Building
  12/18/25
agree with the first sentence and rec. need to exercise cau...
silver nofapping striped hyena
  12/22/25
Watership Down A Day No Pigs Would Die 2nd Where the R...
Milky ticket booth
  12/18/25
...
maroon pervert
  12/18/25
Starship Troopers Enders Game Johnny Tremain Childhoods E...
Yapping multi-colored rehab
  12/18/25
A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES
Razzmatazz kitchen
  12/19/25
Neon Bible better rec for younger kid
Ebony marvelous parlour karate
  12/19/25
abridged edgar allen poe short stories
Sooty stimulating nibblets foreskin
  12/19/25
https://kommandostore.com/products/republic-of-south-africa-...
Jade Wonderful Area
  12/26/25


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:03 PM
Author: Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain

any books you read or wish you had read in high school? looking for something that would be motivating / tools for life genre

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519424)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:15 PM
Author: exhilarant filthpig

I would have enjoyed sword and sorcery fantasy. Poul Anderson (Broken Sword, Three Hearts and Three Lions) Fritz Lieber (Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser) etc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519444)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:19 PM
Author: concupiscible alcoholic hissy fit marketing idea

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276841789712?

Reasonable price, free shipping.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519452)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:21 PM
Author: Honey-headed Pozpig



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519458)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:35 AM
Author: Razzmatazz kitchen

"There's a trip to the farmers market and time for toys and crayons, a bubble bath, and lots of love."

-- School Library Journal

"Will undoubtedly be scooped up by families seeking queer representation in board books."

-- Kirkus

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49521596)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 2:42 AM
Author: Razzmatazz kitchen

this is now forever in my search history

I want you dead, Malk Poo

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49521719)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:21 PM
Author: medicated house

mein kampf for late night reads that give you a good feel

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519459)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:22 PM
Author: Ultramarine Shrine

A few offhand:

-On the Shortness of Life - Seneca

-Starship Troopers (the book is much better and more serious than the movie)

-Bonfire of the Vanities

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519460)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:10 AM
Author: Razzmatazz kitchen

https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3922329&mc=32&forum_id=2#35633765

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49521571)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 9:32 AM
Author: bonkers state

or have the kid wake up xmas morning to an ACTUAL bonfire of his vanities

toughens him up a bit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49522050)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:23 PM
Author: Appetizing spot

The Illustrated Man

Odyssey

The International Jew

1984

Meditations

The Myth of Sisyphus

Hamlet

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519465)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:27 PM
Author: Dashing smoky step-uncle's house

Hatchet, My Side of the Mountain for starters

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519476)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:30 PM
Author: Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain

i think my side of the mountain was one of his summer reading assignments



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519493)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:34 PM
Author: Dashing smoky step-uncle's house

Where the Red Fern Grows, All Quiet on the Western Front, Celestine Prophecy, Lord of the Flies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519513)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:37 PM
Author: Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain

they did lord of the flies already. ill look up some of your other recs, ty!

he just finished peak, so hatchet is a good one

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519523)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:45 PM
Author: Dashing smoky step-uncle's house

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519559)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 4:01 PM
Author: Comical clear den rigor

The eyes and the impossible

sourdough

heart of samurai

artemis

rocket boys

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519953)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 5:13 PM
Author: Cerebral glassy theater stage psychic

rocket boys is 180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49520282)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 10:18 PM
Author: Comical clear den rigor

Every kid should read. It’s top of that list imo

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49521280)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:34 AM
Author: Cerebral glassy theater stage psychic



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49521595)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2025 10:54 AM
Author: bonkers state

weird group called the "rocket boys" ran the party scene at my rural West Virginia high school

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49530601)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:54 PM
Author: Supple Church Building

CR GOAT status books, but would one be "past" those by HS, especially later in HS?

My 7 year old just read--and really enjoyed--Hatchet.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519755)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:00 PM
Author: Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain

he’s 12/7th grade so i said high school since that’s more his reading level

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519767)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:28 PM
Author: zippy stead

The Swimming-Pool Library (fulano)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519483)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:29 PM
Author: Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain

ty for the recs, this is helpful

i just asked him what book he’s reading (we’re on a flight) and its war and peace

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519489)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:24 PM
Author: Lascivious carnelian menage

Waste of time unless he's secretly 30+ years old and has read tons of other Russian lit and has a solid grounding in religion and philosophy.

Count of Monte Cristo is a goat novel that is also accessible and really exciting.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519679)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:29 PM
Author: Disrespectful disturbing hominid

seconding count of monte cristo

three musketeers is also great and vastly superior to any adaptation

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519686)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:29 PM
Author: aphrodisiac theatre

JackTales 🤡😳

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519490)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 4:02 PM
Author: Comical clear den rigor

those are for reading out loud , clown



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519956)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:30 PM
Author: Glittery Resort

The Boy with Pink Hair by Perez Hilton

https://www.amazon.com/Boy-Pink-Hair-Perez-Hilton/dp/0451234200

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519492)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:32 PM
Author: Electric range

Quo Vadis (Sienkiewicz)

We Were Soldiers Once… And Young (Moore & Galloway)

Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage (Lansing)

The Way of Men (Donovan)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519502)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:35 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle citrine church

are you seriously recommending a book on manhood written by a homo?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519701)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:45 PM
Author: Electric range

I’m not even sure which author you’re talking about, though I’m 99.99% sure that it’s not Moore or Galloway

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519724)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:41 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle citrine church

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519873)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2025 6:48 PM
Author: silver nofapping striped hyena

he doesn't like the term gay or homo and instead prefers "androphile," a term he uses to describe romance and sex between masculine men

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Donovan

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49528627)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:46 PM
Author: Cerebral glassy theater stage psychic

Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage 18000

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519898)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:28 PM
Author: Electric range

No young man of any worth can finish that and not have a better idea of what it means to be a man and to experience the thrill, the triumph, of surviving impossible odds. Leadership, loyalty, discipline. And then they get home and are like, fuck it, sign me up for WWI’s trenches

My middle son needed a bit of coaching on perseverance, so we read this together and then did a HARD AS FUCK mountain bike camping trip in western NC.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49520739)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:33 PM
Author: Jet aromatic hall

James Bond novels

Conan (only read the flemming and howard originals though)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519505)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:39 PM
Author: Ultramarine Shrine

The first Bond novel is so good. Amazing call.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519535)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:51 PM
Author: Jet aromatic hall

Once I got into the first one I burned through the rest (12 or so) in a summer. all were 180. I tried reading the non-flemming but its not the same. They don't write novels like that anymore.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519587)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:50 PM
Author: Ultramarine Shrine

Any chance you can recommend your top 5? I need some new books to read.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519744)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 10:06 AM
Author: Jet aromatic hall

1. Goldfinger

2. Moonraker

3. Casino Royale

4. From Russia With Love

5. On Her Majesty's Secret Service

the order changes based on mood but these five are in a tier above.

the rest are all solid. for example, Diamonds are Forever is my least favorite and that is still leagues better than any modern espionage novel.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49522101)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2025 6:44 PM
Author: Ultramarine Shrine

tyft. I loved Moonraker. Will check out Goldfinger next I think.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49528612)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:46 PM
Author: Cerebral glassy theater stage psychic

cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519729)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:42 PM
Author: Ebony marvelous parlour karate

Anabasis

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519542)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:48 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle citrine church



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519572)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:43 PM
Author: beady-eyed field

Flowers for Algernon

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519548)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:48 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle citrine church

The Lessons of History - Will & Ariel Durant

Man's Search for Meaning - Viktor Frankl

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519568)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:55 PM
Author: dead incel station

a song of ice and fire. I'm not a fantasy guy and I loved it. great series for boys who like knights, politics, and violence.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519602)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:30 PM
Author: Racy candlestick maker chapel

Patrick O'Byrne's Master and Commander and related books in the series

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519689)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:36 PM
Author: Floppy mischievous genital piercing

Hardy Boys (how old is your kid?)

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Dune

anything recent by Lawrence Millman

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519705)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:37 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle citrine church

> Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519706)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:01 PM
Author: Unholy pea-brained wrinkle stain

read that, among others, for my contemporary thought class in hs. book was so so but class was 180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519770)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:38 PM
Author: Cerebral glassy theater stage psychic

zorba the greek



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519710)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:49 PM
Author: Electric range



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519736)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:53 PM
Author: Supple Church Building

Several good recs already upthread. Some others:

The Things They Carried

Mark Twain--starting with Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn

1984

The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (and throw in The Hobbit)

Infinite Jest

Moby Dick

Blood Meridian

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49519751)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:30 PM
Author: Electric range

Cr. list

I feel like The Things They Carried got a bit overexposed to the hopelessly feminized librarian space for a time and was looked down upon as kind of trite. But it’s 180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49520745)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:55 PM
Author: purple idea he suggested

The Things They Carried is the most classic writer's favorite. You shouldn't look down on librarian recs. This is all they do

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49520815)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 10:12 PM
Author: Supple Church Building



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49521254)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2025 11:44 AM
Author: silver nofapping striped hyena

agree with the first sentence and rec. need to exercise caution with the second and third sentences just given that the values may not be stoic masculine warrior

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49530736)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 5:09 PM
Author: Milky ticket booth

Watership Down

A Day No Pigs Would Die

2nd Where the Red Fern Grows

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49520246)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:33 PM
Author: maroon pervert



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49520756)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:40 PM
Author: Yapping multi-colored rehab

Starship Troopers

Enders Game

Johnny Tremain

Childhoods End

Rama



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49520778)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:16 AM
Author: Razzmatazz kitchen

A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49521578)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 2:11 AM
Author: Ebony marvelous parlour karate

Neon Bible better rec for younger kid

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49521698)



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Date: December 19th, 2025 2:23 AM
Author: Sooty stimulating nibblets foreskin

abridged edgar allen poe short stories

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49521706)



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Date: December 26th, 2025 12:37 AM
Author: Jade Wonderful Area

https://kommandostore.com/products/republic-of-south-africa-unconventional-warfare-complete-book-set?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2/#49540099)