The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
|
 |
 
|
How much to counter for this in-house offer: $285k base, $57k bonus, $23k 401k?
Poast new message in this thread
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:27 PM Author: Nazca Redlines The posted salary range in the job listing was $270k-$360k base.
I was offered: $285k base $57k bonus (i.e. 20%) $23k 401k (i.e. 8% match)
How much should I counter for? I'm thinking:
$315k base $63k bonus (i.e. sticking with 20%) $25k 401k (i.e. sticking with 8% match--I don't think this is negotiable) $30k signing bonus |
 |
Date: May 6th, 2025 9:33 AM Author: ;::;:;;::;;;;;:::: If they are really shitheads about base, come back with * $300k base (but be willing to accept 295) * Min bonus of $60k (20%) - Max bonus of $150k (discretionary- you can lobby this intensively once you're in the tent) * See if you can get 401k up beyond 8% * $50k signing bonus
I would also ask about base increases. Lockstep annually based on %? Discretionary? |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 9:58 PM Author: am Ysrael chai! ((zurich is stained)) Not an erisa-mo but I don’t think 401k match % is negotiable (unless you’re in a bargaining unit haha) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48909759) |
|
Date: May 7th, 2025 10:58 AM Author: Jarred I. Williams cr - non-discrimination provisions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48910746) |
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:28 PM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., the 401k cap is 23,500 this year bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906777) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:33 PM Author: Nazca Redlines Is the employer match subject to the same limit? In any event, it's a small piece of the comp package, and I'll hit the limit if I hit the limit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906796) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:35 PM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., yes, IRS doesnt care who pays for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906803) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:38 PM Author: Nazca Redlines "What Is the Employer Match 401(k) Limit? The most an employer and employee can contribute together for 2025 is $70,000 if the employee is under 50 or $77,500 if the employee is 50 or older. Subtracting the maximum employee contribution limit for 2024 gives us $46,500 if the employee is under 50 or $54,000 if the employee is 50 or older. That's the most the employer can contribute to a 401(k) account and the employer can't contribute more than the employee's salary."
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/100314/does-my-employers-matching-contribution-count-towards-maximum-i-can-contribute-my-401k-plan.asp |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:39 PM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., wtf did this change in the past few years? tyft. it wasnt like this before. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906817) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:42 PM Author: Nazca Redlines I think it's been like this for at least a few years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906824) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:39 PM Author: The Velvet Bulldozer yes they do fuckface retard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906819) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:48 PM Author: neo radek (🧐) the amount of confidence with he will speak to on any number of things he doesn't actually have the first fucking clue about is truly amazing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906837) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:54 PM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., i admitted error right away, unlike most xo poasters who will never admit error (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906850) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:37 PM Author: tarrifs $23,500 is the cap on employee contributions. The cap on employer contributions is much higher. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906810) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 11:05 AM Author: state your IQ before I engage you further Pre tax.
Employee can still contribute the other $45,000k+ poast tax and then do the MEGA BACKDOOR rollover to Roth IRA (IRS allows but not all plans allow in-service rollover to Roth IRA) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 10:20 PM Author: cowgod ( ) Excellent notation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48909799) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 10:19 PM Author: Trump is the first woman President (TT6) As of 2025, the IRS limits for 401(k) contributions are: Employee Contribution Limit
$23,000 per year (if you're under 50)
$30,500 per year (if you're 50 or older, including the $7,500 catch-up contribution)
Total Annual Contribution Limit (Employee + Employer)
$69,000 per year (if you're under 50)
$76,500 per year (if you're 50 or older, including catch-up) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:29 PM Author: Ass Sunstein Do you have another offer you can use to negotiate? Or just throwing numbers out there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906779) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:35 PM Author: Nazca Redlines I have my current job, which is fine and provides equity, but total comp is lower. So, I'd probably take this new offer even if they don't come up much on their offer. And I have a few other open interviews/applications pending.
At bottom, I'm just throwing numbers out there, but I'm not desperate. |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:35 PM Author: tarrifs Link the Reddit post (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906802) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:36 PM Author: Nazca Redlines What makes this look like a Reddit post? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906805) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:38 PM Author: tarrifs We're all successful solos or biglaw equity partners (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906816) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 9:26 AM Author: David Poaster Wallace 401k contributions (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48907692) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:46 PM Author: Covid was a Hoax no way you got an in house job from a job listing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906828) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:47 PM Author: Nazca Redlines Why not? I got this job offer and my current in-house job by just seeing a job listing on linkedin and applying, with no referral or anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906832) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:49 PM Author: metaphysics is fallow You must have a great resume and cover letter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906839) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:53 PM Author: Nazca Redlines My resume is very prestigious law school-->very prestigious law firm-->interesting (but not particularly prestigious) in-house job. It's enough to get noticed and picked up out of the pile of hundreds of resumes.
I almost never submit a cover letter. I haven't found it worth the extra effort, though it might be.
The other key is sending out many, many applications, soon after each job is posted. |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:55 PM Author: metaphysics is fallow Ok thank (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906853) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 9:28 AM Author: ;::;:;;::;;;;;:::: shrewd (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48907699) |
|
Date: May 7th, 2025 12:51 AM Author: .....;;,,.........;.;.;.;.,;,;,;.;.;,; Hmm interesting. I’ve always heard (like directly from recruiters at big companies) that the cover letter was critical to get past the term search automation. But I haven’t actually tried your method, and though I tend to get responses at a pretty high rate, I often let a posting sit for a week or so while I get around to writing the cover letter. Thinking I should try out your method and see what unfolds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48910106) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:46 PM Author: The Velvet Bulldozer Seems like a good counter. Many in-house roles are very stingy on base pay raises and push it more towards bonus as you get more senior. At my company, someone with that salary would be getting a 40% bonus, so you may want to push for more there.
IDK if they can go to 8% on 401(k). 6% is usually the highpoint and it may be something set plan-wide. But it's worth an ask. If they can't give you that, ask for more RSUs but they are pretty shitty IMO unless they vest relatively quickly. (Mine vest in equal tranches over 4 years which is very lame.) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:50 PM Author: Nazca Redlines Thanks. Yes, my goal is to push the base up as much as possible. I'd much rather have an additional dollar in base than an additional dollar in bonus, especially to start out with as it will set that level for the duration of my tenure.
Do you think I should ask for more than $315k? That's "only" the middle of their posted range. I want to maximize the base, but I don't want to ask for so much that they don't enggage.
They already offered an 8% 401k match. I think it's standard for them for the level of this role. |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:56 PM Author: .,.,.,.,.,...,.,,.,,.....,.,..,.,,...,.,.,,...,. I would ask $325k (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906855) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 8:58 PM Author: The Velvet Bulldozer It depends what the middle of the range represents. At my company, it's the "mid-range point," and it represents what someone in the middle of their tenure in that role would be earning. For internal hires that would be a promotion, it would be hard to get that, and you usually and up starting somewhere about 20-30% above the lowest end. If you are making a lateral move from outside, you should ask for slightly above the mid-range. I would ask for $315 but accept $300 which is what I imagine they have in mind. But they really hate paying in-house counsel high base salaries for whatever reason. (At my company, you are basically capped at however much you make when you cross 250K in base salary, but we get much larger bonuses.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906859) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 9:16 PM Author: Nazca Redlines It's really tough to know from the outside. My impression from doing several interviews with different companies seems to be that the posted range is more or less meaningless and/or they target offering an amount well below the midpoint of the "range." I did several interviews where the range was, e.g., $200-$300 base, then they would say they expected to offer $210-$220 as the base.
For this one, it would be great to get above $300 base, but I don't want to overplay my hand. |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 9:22 PM Author: ,.,.,.,........,....,,,.. How senior is this role? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906920) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 9:24 PM Author: Nazca Redlines AGC. Fairly senior. Job posting wanted 8-10 years experience minimum. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906926) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 9:21 PM Author: ,.,.,.,........,....,,,.. No equity?
The bonus percentage can be hard to negotiate because HR loves to keep everyone at the same percentage based on seniority. Unless this is C level or a smaller company |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 9:25 PM Author: Nazca Redlines Correct. No equity. I get the sense that the bonus percentage could be negotiable, but I'd rather have a higher base salary. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906931) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 9:31 PM Author: ,.,.,.,........,....,,,.. No equity seems weird for a high salary. Maybe I’m just not familiar with non tech (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906953) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 9:22 PM Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::, In house exec here, have hired a number of attorneys.
The fact there’s no stock is weird, but maybe that’s how they are (or not a public company?).
You can ask for another $20k on salary and maybe you’d get $10. Asking for $30k more is a bit off putting. But do it if you want. Downside is that if they hire you, they may be thinking that you’re gonna be a squeaky wheel and you may start off on the wrong foot in your boss’s eyes.
Asking for a signing bonus is fine.
Asking for the higher bonus and 401(k) matches weird. The 401(k) match may be standardize the company and nobody thinks about that anyways. And the bonus is like a chump change in terms of what you’re asking them to add so I don’t know why you would bother. |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 9:26 PM Author: metaphysics is fallow The bonus scales with the base salary because it's a percentage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906934) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 9:35 PM Author: Nazca Redlines Do you really see asking for $30k more as off putting? Negotiating salary is basically expected. $30k here is only 10% more and would only take me to the middle of the posted range. I'm leaning toward asking for a bit more than that, hoping to land at $25k above what they offered.
I'm thinking it won't ask for higher bonus or 401k percentages (and i think the 401k percentage is set in stone). Because those are percentages of the base, they'll scale up with an increase in base. |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 10:41 AM Author: Trust If Aryan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48907838) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 12:43 PM Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::, Yes, and I’ve never had an attorney that received an offer ask for $30k more. I asked for 20k more years ago when I first joined my company, and got 5. The last four attorneys I hired, 3 asked for no additional money, one asked for 5k which we gave him. You want to be seen as a team player. YMMV. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48908191) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 12:46 PM Author: neo radek (🧐) lawyers are horrible people and you all deserve to die except luis (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48908205) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 9:32 PM Author: """'"'"""'' go up to at least 270. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48906955) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 10:07 PM Author: Wang Hernandez Seniority/practice area/ did you ever make partner at a firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48907031) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 10:16 PM Author: Nazca Redlines AGC. Job posting said 8-10 years experience minimum, which I'm above.
General big company stuff
No |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 10:38 PM Author: scholarship (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48907108) |
|
Date: May 5th, 2025 11:00 PM Author: .;:..;:.;.:.;.,,,..,.:,.;....;,;;;..;,..,,.,,...., What a jackoff (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48907160) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 12:54 PM Author: Fyre festival founder Damn, not bad son! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48908236) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 8:08 PM Author: Nazca Redlines Thank you. There is an interesting range itt, from people telling me it's peanuts to people saying it's not even possible to get a job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48909524) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 9:36 PM Author: Dickey Simpkins We once had to hire between two pretty even candidates. Made candidate A an offer and she countered asking for 25% more than the original offer in base salary and an additional amount of PTO days (we were already offering like 25 plus holidays). Offer was pulled and made to candidate B who accepted the next day.
You’re probably fine to make a small counter, but don’t come off as a pain in the ass.
|
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 9:45 PM Author: Nazca Redlines It's a tough game to play. I countered for about 12% more, to get to the midpoint of the posted base for the job, plus a signing bonus. That seems reasonable. We'll see what unfolds.
The stories of people getting offers pulled are rough. Some negotiation is almost expected. |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 10:17 PM Author: Dickey Simpkins Good luck man. Post results. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48909795) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 10:38 PM Author: Nazca Redlines Thank. Will do. Two interesting bits from my discussion with the recruiter about this.
(1) She said the GC already approved the offer, he'll need to approve any changes, and he's unlikely to do so. Not sure if her saying that is a negotiation tactic or what.
(2) She said they reconsider salaries annually, and this year, someone with strong positive reviews could have received a 4% raise. To me, that said you better get your base as high as you can now, because it's not going up much from here. I already knew that was likely the case, but it was interesting to hear her say it.
|
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 10:41 PM Author: Dickey Simpkins In-house is generally very hard to get a base raise unless you get promoted. You can get bonuses up to 50-100% of base depending on how well your perform (ie how important your reporting chain is and how much they like you) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48909831) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 10:51 PM Author: Nazca Redlines All the more reason to get base up now, while I have a shot.
And at this place, AGC is a pretty senior title. There aren't many attorneys above it. So, a promotion might be unlikely. That said, it seems like a good place to work and it's a solid offer. I hope they'll offer a little more and I can join. |
|
Date: May 7th, 2025 12:55 AM Author: .....;;,,.........;.;.;.;.,;,;,;.;.;,; The fact that they offered the bottom of the range may indicate that you weren’t their first choice and they aren’t that sold on you as a must have candidate. I think it’s less of an issue of asking for 20 or 30 more v what you do when they counter with 5k more. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48910110) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 9:56 PM Author: am Ysrael chai! ((zurich is stained)) You should come back and say you’ll do it for $255k. It’s showing a value-add immediately. They’ll be impressed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48909755) |
|
Date: May 7th, 2025 12:58 AM Author: Trump Tariffs Can Do No Wrong (TDNW) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48910111) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 10:32 PM Author: Kenneth Play i never know how to play this stuff but i hope you'll tell us how it goes. fwiw i'd ask for $20k base and be happy with $10. i also think it could be a good angle to ask for a higher target bonus percentage - noting that it's discretionary - because you are signaling that you are confident in your ability to knock it out of the park. but i'd pick one or the other, wouldn't ask for both. i do think the risk is nonzero that an offer gets pulled if you counter too hard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48909817) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 10:46 PM Author: Nazca Redlines I asked for $30k more, to get to the midpoint of the posted range. It seemed fair and only about 12% over the initial offer. I tried to do it tactfully.
The best negotiating tactic is signaling that you're willing to walk away. You can't really do that too strongly here because they surely have many other qualified candidates who would be quite happy to take the offer you're saying you'll walk away from.
There is a certain type of person who would enjoy this. For me, it's a pain, and I'll be glad when it's over. |
|
Date: May 7th, 2025 6:00 AM Author: Long Red Poon Tie Covering Your Wang please update (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48910285) |
|
Date: May 6th, 2025 11:11 PM Author: .,,.,.,,.,..,.,.,.. Just tell them you need a $400k base and nothing else and tell them to cut the crap. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48909882) |
|
Date: May 7th, 2025 1:47 AM Author: ,.,.,.,........,....,,,.. “I thought this was the GC role I was interviewing for” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48910150) |
|
Date: May 7th, 2025 10:55 AM Author: .,,.,.,,.,..,.,.,.. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5720867&forum_id=2:#48910737) |