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Question about European feudalism.

Was this system as singularly shitty as it sounds, or have m...
motley underhanded really tough guy gunner
  06/14/13
just walk outside bro
Startling lime parlor
  05/29/25
(and yes, OP's country has a third world gini coefficient)
Startling lime parlor
  05/29/25
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Startling lime parlor
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Have most large-scale agricultural civilizations over the la...
Sepia shrine
  05/29/25
Yes, it was terrible, it was the first form of mass-egalitar...
Supple Cruel-hearted Old Irish Cottage
  05/29/25
(ignores every other form of mass-agriculture that preceded ...
Sepia shrine
  05/29/25
They were better because you had different tribal clans owni...
Supple Cruel-hearted Old Irish Cottage
  05/29/25
read the history of the early hydrological civilizations of ...
Sepia shrine
  05/29/25
Better to be a serf under a Warrior Clique (blessed by the P...
Ruby keepsake machete place of business
  07/01/25
...
Titillating circlehead
  07/13/25
...
razzmatazz menage digit ratio
  07/13/25
what part of: the peasants are revolting, don't u get?
Talking Selfie Organic Girlfriend
  05/29/25
cq
doobsian useless resort
  05/29/25
I'd say that like slavery it probably depends on a lot on ju...
pearly stain black woman
  06/03/25
teen black death survivors were the original Boomers
Ruby keepsake machete place of business
  07/02/25
...
Brindle rigor candlestick maker
  12/18/25
i wish i could have sworn fealty to an employer like a serf ...
Talented Site
  06/08/25
Serfs had tons of time off & feast days. It wasn't as ba...
comical fiercely-loyal heaven
  07/01/25
really depended on the country, the region, and the lord re...
awkward church yarmulke
  07/16/25
It worked out really well for most folks. Asia had similar s...
Slimy French Halford
  11/11/25
it was a nanny state.
onyx sticky dilemma useless brakes
  11/24/25
Most societies were nomadic. Home sapiens only became a sett...
Slimy French Halford
  12/08/25
actual feudalism was probably fine and shitty in parts four...
awkward church yarmulke
  12/18/25
13th century English peasant: 1620 chill working hours per y...
Obsidian legal warrant theater stage
  04/23/26
"Before capitalism, most people did not work very long ...
Obsidian legal warrant theater stage
  04/23/26


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2013 10:27 AM
Author: motley underhanded really tough guy gunner

Was this system as singularly shitty as it sounds, or have most societies historically been based on similar systems?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#23393887)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 4:29 AM
Author: Startling lime parlor

just walk outside bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48969812)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 4:30 AM
Author: Startling lime parlor

(and yes, OP's country has a third world gini coefficient)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48969813)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:24 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48985020)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 8th, 2025 5:55 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48997575)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 9:14 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49064860)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 3rd, 2025 8:14 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49070377)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 6th, 2025 8:32 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49077411)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 8th, 2025 10:20 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49084518)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49098591)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 14th, 2025 5:12 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49101058)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 16th, 2025 3:43 AM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49105012)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 20th, 2025 8:00 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49117359)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 24th, 2025 5:37 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49128622)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 29th, 2025 11:50 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49141968)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 30th, 2025 6:59 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49143857)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 4th, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49156580)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 10th, 2025 8:35 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49172980)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:33 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49421817)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:48 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49421862)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:57 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49421881)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 11:28 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49422254)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 12th, 2025 7:15 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49424474)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 12th, 2025 9:29 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49425035)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 13th, 2025 1:21 AM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49425543)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 13th, 2025 4:52 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49427654)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 16th, 2025 8:27 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49436681)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 16th, 2025 9:03 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49436785)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 17th, 2025 6:11 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49439167)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 18th, 2025 7:01 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49441985)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 23rd, 2025 8:51 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49454945)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 12:36 AM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49455274)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 6:55 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49457596)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 9:29 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49458108)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 12:15 AM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49461550)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 4:27 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49463581)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 10:41 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49464738)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 27th, 2025 5:48 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49466319)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 28th, 2025 12:55 AM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49467160)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 2nd, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49478445)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 4th, 2025 5:54 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49484240)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 4th, 2025 9:25 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49484832)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 7th, 2025 7:20 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49492316)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 8th, 2025 12:55 AM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49493000)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 8th, 2025 8:23 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49495268)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2025 3:57 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49497250)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2025 9:55 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49500993)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 16th, 2025 9:07 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49515504)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:04 AM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49518561)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2025 8:59 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49529071)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2025 8:47 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49532458)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 24th, 2025 12:00 AM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49536032)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2025 6:54 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49545634)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2025 7:05 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49545665)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2025 9:19 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49548639)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2026 8:56 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49562700)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 6th, 2026 7:39 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49567730)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2026 6:44 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49584404)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 14th, 2026 6:47 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49589879)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2026 7:47 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49604959)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:08 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49838395)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:38 PM
Author: Startling lime parlor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49838453)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:47 AM
Author: Sepia shrine

Have most large-scale agricultural civilizations over the last 5k years relegated the vast majority of their agricultural labor force /population to a state of semi-slavery enforced by an exploitative elite with a monopoly on violence?

yes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48969854)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:51 AM
Author: Supple Cruel-hearted Old Irish Cottage

Yes, it was terrible, it was the first form of mass-egalitarianism. All the old Tribal Clans were abolished & people were turned into landless serfs, the only exceptions were the Elite Warlord Clans that got to rule as Lords/Kings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48969860)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:55 AM
Author: Sepia shrine

(ignores every other form of mass-agriculture that preceded it)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48969863)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 7:47 AM
Author: Supple Cruel-hearted Old Irish Cottage

They were better because you had different tribal clans owning different regions, serfdom was a form of quasi-slavery, only the Kings/Lords had property rights.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48969954)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 1:37 PM
Author: Sepia shrine

read the history of the early hydrological civilizations of egypt, mesopotamia, the indus and the yellow river valleys

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48971066)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 11:58 PM
Author: Ruby keepsake machete place of business

Better to be a serf under a Warrior Clique (blessed by the Priestly Clique) than a humiliated cog of the Merchant Clique imho

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49065184)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 6:53 PM
Author: Titillating circlehead



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49098592)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 7:03 PM
Author: razzmatazz menage digit ratio



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49098608)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 8:52 AM
Author: Talking Selfie Organic Girlfriend

what part of: the peasants are revolting, don't u get?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48970037)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 8:54 AM
Author: doobsian useless resort

cq

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48970041)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:32 PM
Author: pearly stain black woman

I'd say that like slavery it probably depends on a lot on just where you are, so not singularly shitty just situation dependent

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48985033)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2025 12:06 AM
Author: Ruby keepsake machete place of business

teen black death survivors were the original Boomers

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49065206)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 4:10 AM
Author: Brindle rigor candlestick maker



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49518664)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 8th, 2025 6:07 PM
Author: Talented Site

i wish i could have sworn fealty to an employer like a serf to a feudal lord when i was younger. would have saved me a lot of pain cycling through shitty short-term jobs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#48997602)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 10:15 PM
Author: comical fiercely-loyal heaven

Serfs had tons of time off & feast days. It wasn't as bad as most people think. They didn't have running water or electricity, but neither did the rulers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49065026)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 16th, 2025 4:01 AM
Author: awkward church yarmulke

really depended on the country, the region, and the lord

removing technology from the equation it could range from far more harmonious than what we have today to utterly hellish. the general trend towards centralization of power from the early middle ages and on and the rise of the professional state theoretically ensures a general better standard of living for a subject on average, or at the very least a set "floor" for QoL, but ends up removing a lot to do with the nuances of power relations and enduring senses of community in the process

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49105022)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:49 PM
Author: Slimy French Halford

It worked out really well for most folks. Asia had similar systems in place for thousands of years and they were stable societies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49421865)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 10:06 PM
Author: onyx sticky dilemma useless brakes

it was a nanny state.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49458174)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 8th, 2025 8:26 PM
Author: Slimy French Halford

Most societies were nomadic. Home sapiens only became a settled species during the most recent 5% of our time on earth. There's absolutely nothing normal (or even good) about anything we do today, unless your goal is simply to put more people on the earth's surface

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49495273)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:07 AM
Author: awkward church yarmulke

actual feudalism was probably fine and shitty in parts

foursquare feudalism otoh is a lot of fun and harmless if it's not infested with faggots

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49518563)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:17 PM
Author: Obsidian legal warrant theater stage

13th century English peasant: 1620 chill working hours per year with your bros, downtime all winter, zero "thank" emails

you: hiting 1620 billables in July while on your "working vacation" at the beach with your kids

https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49838409)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:17 PM
Author: Obsidian legal warrant theater stage

"Before capitalism, most people did not work very long hours at all. The tempo of life was slow, even leisurely; the pace of work relaxed. Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure. When capitalism raised their incomes, it also took away their time."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2в#49838410)