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Duke JD/LLM
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Date: December 8th, 2004 6:33 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine I know that some of the posters here have an extremely negative opinion of Duke's JD/LLM program, but it sounds really interesting to me and I am awaiting a response. Does anyone know whether admissions to this program are any easier or harder than regular acceptance at Duke Law? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1761421) |
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Date: December 8th, 2004 6:44 PM Author: territorial dilemma ceo Dunno. I had a 3.5/169 and got in with $$$s. I thought it was very interesting, but many mentioned that it probably didn't matter that much. That said, I can't imagine it doing anything but helping. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1761466) |
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Date: December 8th, 2004 6:51 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine Did you already finish then? What did you like about it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1761496) |
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Date: December 8th, 2004 6:54 PM Author: cowardly lascivious theater i think he goes to NU (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1761502) |
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Date: December 8th, 2004 8:50 PM Author: territorial dilemma ceo I went to NU instead. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1762058) |
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Date: December 9th, 2004 3:54 PM Author: chartreuse locale striped hyena you made the right choice. that JD/LLM program is a waste of money. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1765913) |
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Date: December 9th, 2004 6:42 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine Out of curiosity, why do you say that?
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Date: December 9th, 2004 7:01 PM Author: chartreuse locale striped hyena b/c you'll just end up with the same job you could have had with just the JD. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1766885) |
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Date: December 9th, 2004 7:07 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine If I told you that I understand this point, but that I wish to enroll in this program because I think I will take interesting clases and learn things that will be important in the field of law that I choose to practice, would you still say this? I understand that this program will not immediately, or possibly ever, get me a job in and of itself, but it does seem extremely interesting. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1766923) |
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Date: December 9th, 2004 7:16 PM Author: chartreuse locale striped hyena if you think your interest justifies the extra expense, then sure, go for it. I did not think it did.
just remember, when you're sweating out that one extra year of biglaw to pay off your student loans to pay for the 20K or whatever the LLM costs, you might have wished you just got the JD and took some international law classes instead. |
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Date: December 9th, 2004 7:27 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine Would you say that the LLM program does not add much value to the education (not measured in terms of increased starting salary, but in terms of knowledge) that could not be added by taking a few international law classes? How much do you actually know about the program? I know that this last question sounds accusatory, but I am sincerely ineterested in learning more about the LLM. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1767044) |
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Date: December 9th, 2004 7:31 PM Author: chartreuse locale striped hyena i actually have quite a bit of first-hand knowledge re the program. I know many people who dropped the LLM portion, realizing that the added value either financially or educationally, just wasn't worth the cost. Of course, some of these kids probably just wanted an extra degree simply to stand out from the crowd and once they started taking the classes, simply weren't interested.
I would look to see what Duke offers in international law classes apart from the LLM to see if it meets your needs. |
Date: December 8th, 2004 6:48 PM Author: charismatic pearl forum I heard multiple times that it is slightly easier to get in because less people apply for the program. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1761486) |
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Date: December 8th, 2004 8:02 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine Where did you here this? That would be great, especially due to my huge split 3.16/176. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1761825) |
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Date: December 8th, 2004 6:54 PM Author: cowardly lascivious theater what is the point of the llm? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1761506) |
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Date: December 8th, 2004 7:09 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine I am not sure if you are asking me, but it is essentially a slightly higher degree than a JD. I don't think it will make much of a diference in career options, but I eventually want to work in some field of international corporate law. The LLM is probably really unnecessary, but the classes and international study programs sound really interesting.
EDIT: http://www.law.duke.edu/internat/comparative.html |
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Date: December 8th, 2004 8:09 PM Author: cowardly lascivious theater i was under the impression that LLMs were for international students who already had their country's equivalent of a jd. i hadn't heard of it used this way before. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1761874) |
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Date: December 8th, 2004 8:16 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine LLM's can be a degree here in the US for foreign trained lawyers, but some schools offer it as a type of advanced law degree for US lawyers beyond the typical JD. I don't know how it compares to the SJD that others offer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1761901) |
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Date: December 9th, 2004 1:14 PM Author: territorial dilemma ceo Its not a higher degree, its just a degree on a different path. It is a stepping stone to a JSD (not SJD) which is kinda like a Ph.D in law and prepares you for research. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1765219) |
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Date: December 9th, 2004 6:43 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine Not to be picky, but I believe that it is a higher degree in the same way that a Master's is a higher degree than a PhD. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1766812) |
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Date: June 14th, 2005 8:03 PM Author: territorial dilemma ceo "I believe that it is a higher degree in the same way that a Master's is a higher degree than a PhD."
WTF? |
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Date: December 8th, 2004 8:12 PM Author: charismatic pearl forum It was mentioned in some threads here or on LSD, e.g. by someone who visited Duke and got that information during the visit. I've read it one or two times. I believe it also says something like that on the vault gold report on Duke Law School. I don't think the LLm does much apart from the fact that it shows that you're really interested in international law. While this may not exactly a huge boost for getting a job, some employers do value an international background of some sort, so it might well be helpful at some point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1761885) |
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Date: December 9th, 2004 1:01 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine bump
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Date: December 10th, 2004 6:38 AM Author: puce meetinghouse brethren Subject: Scam? Vault Gold says the Duke JD/LLM is a boarderline fundraising scam. It's a very expensive addition to a jd that doesn't mean anything in terms of job placement, ect. Students used to be able to drop out of the program, but now many are locked in and stuck with paying an extra 20k. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1769460) |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 7:30 AM Author: Sooty disgusting public bath I'd dispute that. As someone with a number of friends in the program I'd hardly call it a scam.
And I also know at least one person who has dropped the LLM portion. It is not something you are locked in to.
If for nothing else, it seems to be an incredible advantage by starting in the summer. The joint degree students seemed to be much better off than the other 1Ls during the fall semester, at the very least. |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 11:01 AM Author: odious massive kitchen potus What about people in the other joint degree programs? What do they think?
I kind of want to get a master's along w/ my JD if I go to Duke but it's that extra $16,700 I'm not really sure about. There isn't any way to do a joint degree if you don't start in the summer before 1L, is there? |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 2:31 PM Author: Sooty disgusting public bath You can start a second degree as a 2L, or I suppose even in the middle of 1L year. You will not be able to take as many law classes over your remaining semesters at the school in order to fulfill the requirements for both degrees.
Folks I know in the other joint degree programs seem to like them, but it seems that the different departments treat the program differently. |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 8:35 AM Author: cowardly lascivious theater i couldn't see the point in addind on another law degree. law school is too long already (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1769530) |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 8:38 AM Author: puce meetinghouse brethren Subject: ok i see your point about the advantages of starting early, but it seems there is a strong argument that you would get the same opportunities anyway with just the J.D. and not the added cost of the LLM. just a simple cost/benefit analysis... |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 10:30 AM Author: chartreuse locale striped hyena it's definitely a scam. duke should be ashamed of itself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1769846) |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 2:35 PM Author: Sooty disgusting public bath I had friends who worked this summer in places like large US law firm offices in China, at the UN, and at local firms in Tokyo. They got those opportunities because of the JD/LLM program. One thing it does do for you, from my understanding, is allow you to tap into a really substantial LLM alumni network that Duke has. We've got about 100 foreign students every year come through and get a regular LLM, and a lot of them fall in love with Duke and do a lot to give back to the school, especially to the JD/LLMs.
As someone said earlier, there is also a distinct likelihood that it is easier to get in as a JD/LLM. I can't confirm this, obviously, but it seems likely, since they fill a class of 30 JD/LLMs plus about 10 JD/other joint degrees only from that applicant pool, while the rest of the class (about 160) is filled from a much, much larger pool.
I don't think it's a scam...but I do think people have varying degrees of return on it. |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 3:33 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine Thanks so much for the info. I was getting a little worried about it, though I probably won't even receive a decision for another month. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1771178) |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 4:18 PM Author: cowardly lascivious theater uhm... i never said anything about the advantages of starting early. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1771454) |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 3:38 PM Author: Startling indigo personal credit line this is worthless. law school shouldn't be 3 years much less four. The only possible exception is if you want to be a tax lawyer. Even then I can't see it helping that much. Save your money or get a JD MBA instead. It'll go a lot further, if only cause you'll meet potential clients. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1771195) |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 3:40 PM Author: duck-like feces ...or a law professor... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1771202) |
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Date: December 10th, 2004 3:41 PM Author: motley hyperventilating shrine Th JD/LLM doesn't take four years. The only extra requirements that I know of are half of the summer previous to 1L and an additional four weeks in Hong Kong or Switzerland. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#1771210) |
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Date: June 14th, 2005 8:08 PM Author: territorial dilemma ceo Yep. And the study abroad is more of a reason to do it than not to IMO... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#3014234) |
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Date: June 14th, 2005 8:09 PM Author: territorial dilemma ceo Actually, if I went to Duke I would have loved to do a JD/LLM/MBA... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#3014239) |
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Date: June 14th, 2005 7:07 PM Author: saffron deer antler station are you put into the same section as other JD/LLMs? Seems this would put you at a disadvantage, as I would assume that those enrolled in the program would be above average prospective JDs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#3013803) |
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Date: June 14th, 2005 8:01 PM Author: Sooty disgusting public bath Yes, you are put into the same section as other JD/LLMs...those are the only people who are there in the summer to take the 2 law classes. But once the fall semester rolls around you have classes with other sections. People I know in the joint degree programs said their best semester grades came in the fall semester 1L year, when they were in classes with the other JDs for the first time. I guess the advantage of taking some exams and knowing what to do and what not to do actually shows up in some of those classes. This might outweigh any possible disadvantage of being in a section with people who may or may not be above average. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#3014180) |
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Date: June 14th, 2005 10:08 PM Author: saffron deer antler station does the curve tend to be tightly bound around 3.3 for 1L or are there many Cs given? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#3015311) |
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Date: June 15th, 2005 3:21 AM Author: Sooty disgusting public bath It is pretty well clustered around the median for each class. Although some professors give a wider range of grades. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#3018277) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2005 2:04 PM Author: Unholy state sweet tailpipe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=114203&forum_id=2#3178854) |