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PSA: student loan debt isn't the only non-dischargeable debt
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:42 AM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren in bankruptcy. This isn't even remotely true even though it's repeated so much it's a truism on this board. For example, secured debt isn't dischargable. I can't stop paying my mortgage if I go into bankruptcy ( or if I do, the bank will take my house). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977453) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:46 AM Author: bearded hideous market faggot firefighter so it IS dischargable then? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977482) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:46 AM Author: floppy roast beef yes. they just take the collateral. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977486) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:48 AM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren No it isn't dischargeable, it's foreclosed on. Completely different. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977499) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:50 AM Author: floppy roast beef debt attached to a thing vs debt attached to a person. big difference. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977507) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:52 AM Author: heady smoky home The OP is a moron. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977518) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:54 AM Author: excitant fortuitous meteor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977533) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:24 PM Author: Fuchsia Domesticated Menage Selfie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15978168) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:55 AM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren The debt is always owed by a person. Secured debt up to the value of the collateral cannot be discharged. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977539) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:56 AM Author: floppy roast beef and if the collateral depreciates after the loan docs are signed but before default? they have a nondischargable deficiency against the borrower or they can merely take the collateral? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977548) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:59 AM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren If the collateral is worth less than the debt there is a secured claim up to the value of the collateral and an unsecured claim on the rest. The unsecured claim is obviously subject to discharge as it is general unsecured debt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977576) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:00 PM Author: floppy roast beef correct. there isn't a nondischargable personal anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977582) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:16 PM Author: submissive tattoo regret watch out - looks like someone took secured transactions! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977707) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:18 PM Author: heady smoky home His motoring on in to his second or third week. MFE status almost here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977722) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:47 AM Author: heady smoky home Yeah, the other nondischargeable debts are criminal sanctions and fraud judgments. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977495) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:26 PM Author: naked national goyim that prob includes child support and tax liens? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977805) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:30 PM Author: Free-loading property water buffalo yeah, DSOs, tax liens, most personal injury judgments, civil penalties for fraudulent shit, and some other assorted stuff. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977820) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:48 AM Author: heady smoky home "secured debt isn't dischargable"
You fucking idiot. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:54 AM Author: Free-loading property water buffalo cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977530) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:59 AM Author: submissive tattoo regret this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977571) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:24 PM Author: vibrant school ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15978164) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:55 AM Author: Free-loading property water buffalo You have an extremely limited understanding of consumer bankruptcy. You need to read more, talk less. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977538) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:56 AM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren Explain to me how secured debt is dischargeable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977546) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:59 AM Author: Free-loading property water buffalo Ch.7, no asset case: fork that shit over. Debt wiped. The security is the collateral. Whatever is owed on the balance, the remaining obligation to pay is now gone. Present value of the collateral is the obligation (not necessarily what was originally owed). You fuck the creditor by devaluing the collateral.
Ch. 13: 5 yr payment plan (assuming no redemption or reaffirmation agreement).
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:01 PM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren In both cases, the debt secured up to the value of the collateral is nondischargeable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977585) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:03 PM Author: Free-loading property water buffalo Yes in the sense that you can't keep the shit you default on. Earth shattering. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977603) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:05 PM Author: Boyish irate stage Go ahead and link us to a few things:
(1) The definition of "discharge" and
(2) The statutory exceptions.
thx |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:10 PM Author: Boyish irate stage Did you get those cites yet, OP? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15977648) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:18 PM Author: 180 drunken ladyboy So let's foreclose on people degrees if they won't pay their student loans.
This is entirely reasonable. If the laws were changed to allow this, we would see a massive and sudden restructuring of the American education system. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:22 PM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren Degrees are valueless to banks. The point of collateral isn't to punish someone, it's to give the bank security that at the very least, they will receive the value of the collateral.
The reason you can't make student loans dischargeable is that NO ONE WILL FUCKING LEND TO STUDENTS IF YOU DO.
Doubt me, try going out onto the market and getting a loan that doesn't have government backing and is non-dischargeable to go to school. The banks simply will no do so. You might be able to pick up some sort of loan from a shady company that will take an all-assets filing against you and get your parents to co-sign and get an all-assets filing against them, and the interest rate will be something north of 12%.
Good luck. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:27 PM Author: Fuchsia Domesticated Menage Selfie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15978190) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:29 PM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren This is the policy you should be against. Banks make a ton of money on government back loans.
Drop the government backing - make loans MORE DIFFICULT to get. This will put us on the right track.
Forgiving people who knew the rules going in and got themselves in trouble - too fucking bad. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:31 PM Author: 180 drunken ladyboy This too
government backing needs to end |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:29 PM Author: 180 drunken ladyboy Punishing people deters them from declaring bankruptcy, and taking a degree away accomplishes this goal unless the degree was some worthless snake-oil sold by a cooley huckster.
People will fucking lend to students, they just won't fucking lend to people getting Le Cordon Bleu or Directional State Communications degrees. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:31 PM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren You don't understand. Banks don't care about collateral that is worthless to THEM. It doesn't matter if the collateral has value to a student, that's not how a bank evaluates risk.
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:32 PM Author: ruddy coldplay fan Again banks lended to students when they were dischargeable in bankruptcy. The justification that there will be no loans if they are dischargeable in bankruptcy isn't true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15978235) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:35 PM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren If you want to make loans GOING FORWARD dischargeable in bankruptcy and drop government backing you have my full support.
But everyone knew the rules going into the current loans and those rules shouldn't change now because a bunch of people are now wishing they could be debt free. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:34 PM Author: 180 drunken ladyboy "It doesn't matter if the collateral has value to a student, that's not how a bank evaluates risk."
Value of the degree to a student would impact the student's decision whether or not to burn the degree to get rid of the debt, you fucking downie. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:37 PM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren There will be no debt, because there will be no loan. Banks don't care about, won't take, and would never foreclose on a degree as collateral. It's not worth the time money or expense to do so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15978274) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:37 PM Author: ruddy coldplay fan + 1
also effect on credit rating social stigma on declaring bankruptcy
check against burning the degree |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:31 PM Author: ruddy coldplay fan Student loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy for the first ten years, and there was no problem. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15978225) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:39 PM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren Again, if you want to make this change GOING FORWARD - by all means do so.
But taking out loans will be more expensive for everyone and much more difficult to get (neither of which I'm against BTW)
Forgiving, or even retroactively reforming the loan documents is bad public policy. |
Date: September 6th, 2010 1:24 PM Author: vibrant school can OP die (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15978165) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:25 PM Author: Provocative Ocher Brethren We'll all die someday - the difference is, when I go, it'll be debt freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415799&forum_id=2#15978172) |