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Orson Scott Card: Mentor, Friend, Bigot (Wired)

BY RACHEL EDIDIN10.31.139:30 AM I’m not going to see Ender’...
Garnet dashing cruise ship
  10/31/13
http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2004-02-15-1.html &...
Garnet dashing cruise ship
  10/31/13
where has he advocated VIOLENCE? this person sounds like ...
Kink-friendly Pit Messiness
  10/31/13
The novel has received negative criticism for violence and i...
Cordovan Pervert
  10/31/13
wait, wut?
Kink-friendly Pit Messiness
  10/31/13
schmear campaign
Garnet dashing cruise ship
  10/31/13
thats a new one. extrapolating the motivations in a pure ...
Kink-friendly Pit Messiness
  10/31/13
...
Spaceship autoadmit
  09/13/25
Some people take this passage from a column he wrote in the ...
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
sure, if you are self-selecting asshole with no sense of per...
Kink-friendly Pit Messiness
  10/31/13
I'm not agreeing with that interpretation. Just giving you t...
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
mormons are usually so chill, despite their decidedly unchil...
Kink-friendly Pit Messiness
  10/31/13
I agree. Most Mormons I've known have been good dudes, dudet...
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
The guy has been UNHINGED for years, people are just startin...
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
yeah sounds like alex jones level retardation but how can yo...
Garnet dashing cruise ship
  10/31/13
i thought it was awesome when i found out card hates faggots...
Wine Indian Lodge
  10/31/13
Isn't his book required reading for Eagle Scout conservahero...
Garnet dashing cruise ship
  10/31/13
(clitdick geek)
Wine Indian Lodge
  10/31/13
i would hoist him on my shoulders and call myself a Card Car...
Kink-friendly Pit Messiness
  10/31/13
...
Garnet dashing cruise ship
  10/31/13
A+
maize water buffalo
  10/31/13
"Ender’s Game was one of my first and most precious pap...
boyish naked dilemma
  10/31/13
What's up with these people? They always find a way to twist...
Garnet dashing cruise ship
  10/31/13
"Ender’s Game was one of my first and most precious pap...
smoky sinister toaster
  10/31/13
Harsh but fair opinion.
Exciting garrison
  10/31/13
Demosthenes unhinged
maize water buffalo
  10/31/13
...
mewling kitty chapel
  10/31/13
Orson Scott Card inscription: "Enjoy the book, faggot&q...
glassy boistinker
  10/31/13
...
Garnet dashing cruise ship
  10/31/13
LOL at this shallow bitch. Orson Scott Card goes out of his ...
Exciting garrison
  10/31/13
this was my thought, too. maybe he didn't know about he...
chestnut personal credit line mental disorder
  10/31/13
Try reading his weekly newspaper column.
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
so you can't separate his work (which most people believe to...
chestnut personal credit line mental disorder
  10/31/13
Non sequitur much? You said you haven't read anything in his...
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
So what? I can appreciate art without indulging the artist's...
Garnet dashing cruise ship
  10/31/13
How is it a witch hunt? It's not like he's going to cave und...
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
i said i was specifically referring to his sci-fi work, not ...
chestnut personal credit line mental disorder
  10/31/13
No you didn't say that. You referred to his "work"...
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
you seem a bit unhinged yourself bud
Laughsome Khaki Heaven
  10/31/13
i assume this means you've conceded my actual argument (sinc...
chestnut personal credit line mental disorder
  10/31/13
I'm not conceding anything. You stated yourself that you hav...
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
lol. you're done here. you've had multiple chances to poin...
chestnut personal credit line mental disorder
  10/31/13
What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't point you to &...
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
jfc, you're an idiot.
chestnut personal credit line mental disorder
  10/31/13
Enjoy blissful ignorance, brother.
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
*hates Orson Scott Card's books, listening to Thriller on ip...
Big Drab Space
  10/31/13
Actually, it's surprisingly consistent.
cheese-eating crotch set
  10/31/13
...
Spaceship autoadmit
  09/14/25
wonder if she boycotts all Mormon owned businesses
Navy Idiotic Corner
  10/31/13
did she self identify as "GIFTED" god, libs. WH...
Kink-friendly Pit Messiness
  10/31/13
...
Blathering factory reset button
  05/09/14


Poast new message in this thread



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Date: October 31st, 2013 10:04 AM
Author: Garnet dashing cruise ship

BY RACHEL EDIDIN10.31.139:30 AM

I’m not going to see Ender’s Game. This is not a revelation. I’m queer. My opinion of Orson Scott Card’s politics and his flimsy rationalizations is on record. I don’t buy books he writes. I don’t watch the movies based on them.

But I’ve still got a paperback on my shelf — battered and worn in the way beloved books get, spine floppy, corners bent. On the title page, in faded blue ballpoint pen, it’s inscribed: “To Rachel – a friend of Ender.”

It’s not wrong. It would be easier if it were.

The first time I read Ender’s Game, I was eight.

Ender’s Game was one of my first and most precious paper mirrors. I was a gifted and severely socially alienated little kid, and authors who can write really, freakishly brilliant children are extremely rare. Ender’s Game was an inestimably important touchstone — the first and sometimes only sign I had that there was someone out there who even vaguely got it and cared enough to try to write it down.

This isn’t an uncommon experience, I think. But it’s not the end; there’s another part of the story that comes later, the part I don’t usually mention.

As a college student, I corresponded extensively with Orson Scott Card. For several years, I considered him a mentor and a friend. He was incredibly generous with his time and advice, and supportive of me as an aspiring fiction writer. I’ve had dinner at his home.

I was out during that time. I was also largely unaware of the extremity of Card’s politics. His political reputation was much quieter back then — most of his internet presence was concentrated around a network of online writing workshop and critique groups — and his op-eds were published in circles I never stumbled into. The only time his beliefs came up in our conversations was a comment he made about fiction being a totally inappropriate venue for any kind of ideological proselytizing. I may not have agreed with his personal beliefs — I knew that he was an observant Mormon and at least somewhat politically conservative — but I respected and still respect the principle of not using fiction as a soap box, even if the author who introduced it to me has since forgotten or abandoned it.

The truth, of course, is that Card had been avidly homophobic since long before I knew him. That at the same time we were talking about character development and the shapes of stories, he was railing against marriage rights for same-sex couples and insisting homosexuality was a byproduct of child abuse. Whether the rampaging extremism he’s exploded into is a product of a significant change in perspective or just less tact and a larger platform, I’ll never know: We fell out of touch long before, for which I’m cowardly grateful.

Card’s hate has come to color my experience of his fiction — as, I think, it should. Neither fiction nor its creators exist in a vacuum; nor is the choice to consume art or support an artist morally neutral. Orson Scott Card is monstrously homophobic; he’s racist; he advocates violence and lobbies against fundamental human rights and equates criticism of those stances with his own hate speech.

I would never, ever suggest that a student seek out his advice. I will not pay to see Ender’s Game; I will never buy another copy. But there’s that battered, beloved old paperback still sitting on my shelf, and I can’t and don’t want to erase what it’s meant to me. Whoever I am, wherever I’ve come from, as a writer and a human being, Ender’s Game was part of that. And so was Card.

But I don’t want to walk away without stopping to mourn for what was worth mourning.

In February, Alyssa Rosenberg wrote an excellent and nuanced examination of the paradox of Ender’s Game, and the tricky negotiation of consuming valuable works by reprehensible artists. In the 1930s and 1940s, George Orwell produced article after article trying to navigate the treacherous intersections of literature with the personal and political. But even now, there’s no map. It is unconscionable to keep supporting Card; to buy his books; to afford him any further platform. But if we all walk away and keep walking, someday a kid is going to reach for the touchstone that I clung to — and come up empty.

Once, early in our correspondence, Card and I talked about villains. I don’t remember the exact words, but Card’s advice stuck with me: to find something worth loving in every antagonist. It’s the lesson that made Speaker for the Dead my partner’s favorite book in the Ender series: that no one is all good or all bad; that most of us live the lives we think we have to.

If this were fiction, there would be a clear answer. Real life is messier, the stakes higher. Complex and painful problems aren’t always offset by elegant solutions. Sometimes, there’s no right answer. Sometimes every choice means letting go of something valuable — the question isn’t “whether,” but “what.”

These days, it’s easier for me to think of them as two separate people — the Card I knew, whose books I loved; and the increasingly unbalanced and extremist pundit whose worldview scarcely counts me as a person. But that’s reductionist, and a disservice to both. Card is a monster who helped me learn to write; an author of hateful screed whose novels taught lonely, angry kids compassion and gave them their first sense of home. None of those things makes the others go away. None of those things makes the others stop mattering.

I am not Ender. The enemy’s gate is not down. And some battles can’t be won.

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/10/enders-game/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24340813)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 10:15 AM
Author: Garnet dashing cruise ship

http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2004-02-15-1.html

"But the rule must be largely observed, and must be seen to be observed even more than it actually is. If trust between the sexes breaks down, then males who are able will revert to the broadcast strategy of reproduction, while females will begin to compete for males who already have female mates. It is a reproductive free-for-all.

Civilization requires the suppression of natural impulses that would break down the social order. Civilization thrives only when most members can be persuaded to behave unnaturally, and when those who don't follow the rules are censured in a meaningful way.

Why would men submit to rules that deprive them of the chance to satisfy their natural desire to mate with every attractive female?

Why would women submit to rules that keep them from trying to mate with the strongest (richest, most physically imposing, etc.) male, just because he already has a wife?"

Sage.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24340866)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 10:53 AM
Author: Kink-friendly Pit Messiness

where has he advocated VIOLENCE?

this person sounds like a bitch

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341005)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 10:59 AM
Author: Cordovan Pervert

The novel has received negative criticism for violence and its justification. Elaine Radford's review, "Ender and Hitler: Sympathy for the Superman", posits that Ender Wiggin is an intentional reference by Card to Adolf Hitler and criticizes the violence in the novel, particularly at the hands of the protagonist.[2] Card responded to Radford's criticisms in Fantasy Review, the same publication. Radford's criticisms are echoed in John Kessel's essay "Creating the Innocent Killer: Ender's Game, Intention, and Morality", wherein Kessel states: "Ender gets to strike out at his enemies and still remain morally clean. Nothing is his fault."[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_Game#Critical_response

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341041)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 11:03 AM
Author: Kink-friendly Pit Messiness

wait, wut?



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341061)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:06 AM
Author: Garnet dashing cruise ship

schmear campaign

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341077)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:07 AM
Author: Kink-friendly Pit Messiness

thats a new one.

extrapolating the motivations in a pure fictitious narrative to the innate desires and objectives of the author.

is that what is happening here?

if so libs are not only done but disingenuous hacks

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341083)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 13th, 2025 11:54 PM
Author: Spaceship autoadmit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#49265967)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 11:07 AM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

Some people take this passage from a column he wrote in the Mormon Times as a call to violent resistance of the gay agenda:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700245157/State-job-is-not-to-redefine-marriage.html?pg=all

How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341080)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 11:08 AM
Author: Kink-friendly Pit Messiness

sure, if you are self-selecting asshole with no sense of perspective or nuance.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341084)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 11:10 AM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

I'm not agreeing with that interpretation. Just giving you the source material for where the claim comes from.

He's a legitimately UNHINGED asshole and there's plenty of shit to criticize him for without misinterpreting that passage.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341090)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 11:11 AM
Author: Kink-friendly Pit Messiness

mormons are usually so chill, despite their decidedly unchill spiritual beliefs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341103)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:12 AM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

I agree. Most Mormons I've known have been good dudes, dudettes. Card's not one of them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341106)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 11:09 AM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

The guy has been UNHINGED for years, people are just starting to pay attention because of the movie finally being made.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/08/14/orson_scott_card_worries_about_obama_turning_urban_gangs_into_his_personal.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341087)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:12 AM
Author: Garnet dashing cruise ship

yeah sounds like alex jones level retardation but how can you be so petty? i hate these "the personal is the political" idiots. it's not like he's your priest or leader, the dude is a freaking sci-fi writer. it's ok to read things by people who aren't exactly like you.

plus it's hard to buy that it's real moral outrage and not disingenuous nonsense when libs all go out to see the latest woody allen flick.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341109)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 11:11 AM
Author: Wine Indian Lodge

i thought it was awesome when i found out card hates faggots and libs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341096)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:14 AM
Author: Garnet dashing cruise ship

Isn't his book required reading for Eagle Scout conservaheroes and the like? Thought it was pretty obviously a white male geek power fantasy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341117)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:28 AM
Author: Wine Indian Lodge

(clitdick geek)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341188)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:13 AM
Author: Kink-friendly Pit Messiness

i would hoist him on my shoulders and call myself a Card Carrying Member.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341112)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:14 AM
Author: Garnet dashing cruise ship



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341119)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:25 AM
Author: maize water buffalo

A+

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341176)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:22 AM
Author: boyish naked dilemma

"Ender’s Game was one of my first and most precious paper mirrors. I was a gifted and severely socially alienated little kid, and authors who can write really, freakishly brilliant children are extremely rare. Ender’s Game was an inestimably important touchstone — the first and sometimes only sign I had that there was someone out there who even vaguely got it and cared enough to try to write it down."

Fucking lol

"Paper mirrors" + "really, freakishly brilliant children"

Yeah I'm sure you're a regular Einstein, Rachel. Suck your own clitdick a little more in this post why don't you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341164)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:46 AM
Author: Garnet dashing cruise ship

What's up with these people? They always find a way to twist everything into being ALL ABOUT ME.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341313)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:29 AM
Author: smoky sinister toaster

"Ender’s Game was one of my first and most precious paper mirrors. I was a gifted and severely socially alienated little kid, and authors who can write really, freakishly brilliant children are extremely rare. Ender’s Game was an inestimably important touchstone — the first and sometimes only sign I had that there was someone out there who even vaguely got it and cared enough to try to write it down."

This woman is unbearable and I hope she dies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341196)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 11:34 AM
Author: Exciting garrison

Harsh but fair opinion.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341224)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:30 AM
Author: maize water buffalo

Demosthenes unhinged

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341204)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:31 AM
Author: mewling kitty chapel



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341209)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:35 AM
Author: glassy boistinker

Orson Scott Card inscription: "Enjoy the book, faggot"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341237)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:45 AM
Author: Garnet dashing cruise ship



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341300)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:41 AM
Author: Exciting garrison

LOL at this shallow bitch. Orson Scott Card goes out of his way to help someone who self-identifies as an individual who engages in a practice that conflicts with one of Card's fundamental moral premises, and then she calls him out for being intolerant.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341281)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:54 AM
Author: chestnut personal credit line mental disorder

this was my thought, too.

maybe he didn't know about her sexual orientation or something...which would mean she was intentionally hiding it from him in order to get his help/advice.

i haven't seen anything in any of card's work (i've only read the first 3 ender books) that communicated any lib-offensive views...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341369)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:55 AM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

Try reading his weekly newspaper column.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341377)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:57 AM
Author: chestnut personal credit line mental disorder

so you can't separate his work (which most people believe to have at least some artistic merit) from his personal views?

i was obviously referring to his fiction, not to his op-eds.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341394)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:59 AM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

Non sequitur much? You said you haven't read anything in his work that is lib-offensive and that you've only read the first three Enders Games books. I suggested you read his weekly newspaper column, which is a part of his "work." If you do that, you will clearly see the lib-offensive material.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341411)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 12:05 PM
Author: Garnet dashing cruise ship

So what? I can appreciate art without indulging the artist's politics. The whole thing stinks of a witch hunt.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341437)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 12:12 PM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

How is it a witch hunt? It's not like he's going to cave under the pressure of a few libs not buying his shitty books (shitty with the exception of Enders Game). He's been unabashed about his views for 30+ years.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341472)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 12:06 PM
Author: chestnut personal credit line mental disorder

i said i was specifically referring to his sci-fi work, not his op-eds, which are necessarily opinion pieces.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341447)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 12:08 PM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

No you didn't say that. You referred to his "work" and then made it clear you've only read three of his early Enders books. His "work" includes his extensive collections of essays and op-eds and if you read those you see exactly what you were missing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341457)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 12:10 PM
Author: Laughsome Khaki Heaven

you seem a bit unhinged yourself bud



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341465)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 12:11 PM
Author: chestnut personal credit line mental disorder

i assume this means you've conceded my actual argument (since i am actively separating his opeds and fiction) and would now like to discuss my use of the word "work"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341471)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 12:13 PM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

I'm not conceding anything. You stated yourself that you have a level of ignorance about his body of work in your first post. I pointed you in the direction that would help you see what you expressed not knowing about, and you proceeded to be a faggot.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341475)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 12:14 PM
Author: chestnut personal credit line mental disorder

lol. you're done here. you've had multiple chances to point to something other than an oped and you've failed miserably either due to poor reading comprehension or inability to find evidence.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341482)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 12:15 PM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't point you to "an op-ed" I pointed you to his weekly column, which has been running for more than 20 years.

Once again, you show complete ignorance of his body of work.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341492)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 12:17 PM
Author: chestnut personal credit line mental disorder

jfc, you're an idiot.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341498)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 12:17 PM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

Enjoy blissful ignorance, brother.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341503)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 11:48 AM
Author: Big Drab Space

*hates Orson Scott Card's books, listening to Thriller on iphone*

sees no problem with this.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341324)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:50 AM
Author: cheese-eating crotch set

Actually, it's surprisingly consistent.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341348)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 14th, 2025 12:53 PM
Author: Spaceship autoadmit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#49267080)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 31st, 2013 11:59 AM
Author: Navy Idiotic Corner

wonder if she boycotts all Mormon owned businesses

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24341409)



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Date: October 31st, 2013 1:51 PM
Author: Kink-friendly Pit Messiness

did she self identify as "GIFTED"

god, libs. WHYYYYYY???

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#24342089)



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Date: May 9th, 2014 4:06 PM
Author: Blathering factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2401404&forum_id=2#25532286)