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Europeans are so, so poor

Like exceptionally poor. Jfc. I just looked up my job in ...
transparent church
  05/11/24
Most are redditors too and love saying how guns are insane f...
umber wild bbw
  05/11/24
american redditors love fantasizing about being european
hideous senate
  05/13/24
Free college Thin women Walkable historic neighborhoods F...
Stirring Philosopher-king Tattoo
  05/11/24
Holy shit r u poasting from 1992????
umber wild bbw
  05/11/24
The college part is true. I recently met a guy who's a med s...
180 garrison
  05/11/24
So it's not free...
Cracking naked mad cow disease
  05/11/24
Not fully free, but definitely affordable. It also takes int...
180 garrison
  05/11/24
that’s a lie
Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets
  05/11/24
Link?
180 garrison
  05/11/24
onus is on you
Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets
  05/11/24
link?
apoplectic citrine liquid oxygen
  05/11/24
Lmfao. "Link to my unverifiable bullshit being false pl...
Adventurous Self-centered Meetinghouse Dog Poop
  05/12/24
u mean HIS bullshit or do you really believe that medical...
Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets
  05/12/24
medical school is free for the natives in a lot of European ...
pungent cuckold
  05/12/24
link?
Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets
  05/12/24
It definitely is in Germany- all public universities are. Yo...
glittery selfie
  05/12/24
https://www.rcsi.com/dublin/undergraduate/medicine/fees-and-...
pungent cuckold
  05/13/24
https://www.meduniwien.ac.at/web/en/studies-further-educatio...
pungent cuckold
  05/13/24
https://medschool.it/blog/compare-all-medical-schools-rankin...
pungent cuckold
  05/13/24
Correct, I was agreeing with you
Adventurous Self-centered Meetinghouse Dog Poop
  05/12/24
you had me at thin women
Lemon Step-uncle's House Organic Girlfriend
  05/11/24
Driving is way better than walking. Are you retarded?
Mint jap ticket booth
  05/12/24
...
Yellow Market Fortuitous Meteor
  05/11/24
We lost. Get over it.
awkward vibrant place of business azn
  05/11/24
housing is a fraction of the price and sane labor laws keep ...
Heady sooty bawdyhouse
  05/11/24
"housing is a fraction of the price" This is so...
umber wild bbw
  05/11/24
not in london and zurich, sure
Heady sooty bawdyhouse
  05/11/24
...
smoky travel guidebook center
  05/11/24
(guy who thinks salaries of €1-2k isn’t for cheap...
Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets
  05/11/24
Family leave, excellent public pensions, not having to pay $...
awkward vibrant place of business azn
  05/11/24
Lmao so you vote Trump who opposes all of these things? ...
Adulterous Set
  05/11/24
We can’t have those things at this point.
awkward vibrant place of business azn
  05/11/24
Cr so better to vote for the party that opposes all of it ;-...
Adulterous Set
  05/14/24
Lmao
Motley Orange Trailer Park Coldplay Fan
  05/11/24
There are basically no trailer parks in Germany. Anywhere. ...
glittery selfie
  05/11/24
vast swaths of Eastern Germany are covered in Soviet era hou...
Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets
  05/11/24
Well, those are the relics of a non-German system - an histo...
glittery selfie
  05/11/24
they actually took the top 2-3 floor off to make them last l...
Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets
  05/11/24
larger german cities are flooded with foreigners and are gen...
mewling piazza sandwich
  05/11/24
Now do Detroit and Baltimore.
Stirring Philosopher-king Tattoo
  05/11/24
right, but you can still white-flight your way out of those ...
mewling piazza sandwich
  05/11/24
A hidden advantage Germany has is far less affirmative actio...
glittery selfie
  05/11/24
The entire West is headed to oblivion. Germany will get ther...
glittery selfie
  05/11/24
...
electric hospital private investor
  05/11/24
Don't those look cute from the outside, but on the inside it...
amethyst fragrant boltzmann
  05/11/24
Most educated people seem to make around 70-100k. People at ...
narrow-minded mentally impaired giraffe candlestick maker
  05/11/24
Lmao no, much lower
Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets
  05/11/24
There's also less stigma and fewer negative consequences to ...
Stirring Philosopher-king Tattoo
  05/11/24
in europe there is a much clearer divide between the haves a...
Ruby tank
  05/11/24
"theres no point to working hard or striving there"...
Heady sooty bawdyhouse
  05/11/24
...
chrome pisswyrm
  05/11/24
yo nigger you are mad brown!
chrome pisswyrm
  05/12/24
They have high speed rail tho
low-t hateful cumskin
  05/11/24
They would do better as Russian chattel slaves. They will be...
talented shrine
  05/11/24
Tell me where in euro (in areas that actually like to live a...
disgusting office
  05/12/24
the cities in the Flanders part of Belgium seem affordable
pungent cuckold
  05/12/24
U might as well buy in nebraska.. just saw a spam add "...
disgusting office
  05/14/24
The UK literally has a lower GDP per capita than fucking Mis...
transparent church
  05/12/24
Every European i meet seems rich
violet frum legal warrant
  05/12/24
rich inner life or rich financially?
Topaz trump supporter resort
  05/12/24
Being rich is always a mark of corruption and malice. Euros ...
Saffron Business Firm
  05/12/24
Read the wiki summary and that movie looks 180 The closes...
Irate National
  05/12/24
they will always have Culture over the rest of the world-- e...
Rusted vigorous dysfunction
  05/14/24


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:10 PM
Author: transparent church

Like exceptionally poor. Jfc.

I just looked up my job in Berlin and it’s like 1/3 the total comp of the US.

Eurozone GDP has had 0% growth since 2008. In the same period, USA gdp grew by 100%

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654156)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:13 PM
Author: umber wild bbw

Most are redditors too and love saying how guns are insane for normal citizens to own

https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/rh8qvp/quick_acting_14_year_old_shoots_robber_inside/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654166)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2024 7:51 AM
Author: hideous senate

american redditors love fantasizing about being european

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47657206)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:15 PM
Author: Stirring Philosopher-king Tattoo

Free college

Thin women

Walkable historic neighborhoods

Free public schools you can actually send your kids to

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654174)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:18 PM
Author: umber wild bbw

Holy shit r u poasting from 1992????

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654181)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:20 PM
Author: 180 garrison

The college part is true. I recently met a guy who's a med student in Italy. He pays $800 USD per year.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654190)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:26 PM
Author: Cracking naked mad cow disease

So it's not free...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654207)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:47 PM
Author: 180 garrison

Not fully free, but definitely affordable. It also takes into consideration your income and expenses. There's a number called ISEE that calculates your expenses. You input that number into the tuition calculator and it'll give you the total.

So for a lolyer making 250k per year, it appears that the tuition would be around 3k/yr. Don't quote me on this, I did this research quickly and could be wrong, but you can also look for yourself: https://simulatore.tasse.unito.it/?isee=30600&tempopienoparziale=1&anno=1&requisito=1&contributo_si_no=0&contributo_si_no=1&CFU=0



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654270)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:36 PM
Author: Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets

that’s a lie

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654231)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:47 PM
Author: 180 garrison

Link?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654271)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:55 PM
Author: Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets

onus is on you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654283)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:07 PM
Author: apoplectic citrine liquid oxygen

link?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654316)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 2:55 PM
Author: Adventurous Self-centered Meetinghouse Dog Poop

Lmfao. "Link to my unverifiable bullshit being false please"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656005)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 3:04 PM
Author: Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets

u mean HIS bullshit

or do you really believe that medical school in Italy is $100 a month?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656035)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 3:15 PM
Author: pungent cuckold

medical school is free for the natives in a lot of European countries, so yes, it's possible

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656081)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 7:42 PM
Author: Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets

link?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656604)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 9:40 PM
Author: glittery selfie

It definitely is in Germany- all public universities are. You can take my word for it or not.

Medical school for Germans starts right out of high school- there's no "premed" or "prelaw" for that matter. You need a near-perfect Abitur score to be allowed to study medicine, though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656822)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2024 3:49 AM
Author: pungent cuckold

https://www.rcsi.com/dublin/undergraduate/medicine/fees-and-funding

Ireland has tuition-free medical school for not only Irish but all EU + UK + Switzerland citizens, though they have to pay approx. 3k euros per year in "student fees"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47657139)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2024 3:53 AM
Author: pungent cuckold

https://www.meduniwien.ac.at/web/en/studies-further-education/application-admission/tuition-fees/

"There is essentially a contribution obligation for all students at Austrian universities. The level of tuition fees is

€ 363.36 per semester for EU citizens or

€ 726.72 per semester for third country nationals.

In addition to relevant tuition fees, the Students Union contribution shall be paid, including insurance, in an amount of € 24.70.

Students shall therefore pay a total amount of € 388.06 and € 751.42 per semester."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47657140)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2024 4:01 AM
Author: pungent cuckold

https://medschool.it/blog/compare-all-medical-schools-rankings/

About halfway down the page are tuition figures for about 15 Italian medical schools, they are scaled for income and range from essentially free to a few thousand euros a year. A couple schools top out at less than 2000 euros per year

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47657141)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 7:40 PM
Author: Adventurous Self-centered Meetinghouse Dog Poop

Correct, I was agreeing with you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656598)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 7:41 PM
Author: Lemon Step-uncle's House Organic Girlfriend

you had me at thin women

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654502)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 2:38 PM
Author: Mint jap ticket booth

Driving is way better than walking. Are you retarded?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47655960)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:22 PM
Author: Yellow Market Fortuitous Meteor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654194)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:25 PM
Author: awkward vibrant place of business azn

We lost. Get over it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654205)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:32 PM
Author: Heady sooty bawdyhouse

housing is a fraction of the price and sane labor laws keep their people from being treated like cheap horses in ways that actually matter (such as hours of work per week). it's 180.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654219)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:34 PM
Author: umber wild bbw

"housing is a fraction of the price"

This is so wrong it's laughable

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654224)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:38 PM
Author: Heady sooty bawdyhouse

not in london and zurich, sure

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654236)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:58 PM
Author: smoky travel guidebook center



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654289)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:35 PM
Author: Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets

(guy who thinks salaries of €1-2k isn’t for cheap horses)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654226)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:35 PM
Author: awkward vibrant place of business azn

Family leave, excellent public pensions, not having to pay $600/mo for garbage health insurance

It’s frankly not even close anymore.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654227)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:44 PM
Author: Adulterous Set

Lmao so you vote Trump who opposes all of these things?

Cons are retards.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654259)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:56 PM
Author: awkward vibrant place of business azn

We can’t have those things at this point.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654285)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 14th, 2024 6:38 PM
Author: Adulterous Set

Cr so better to vote for the party that opposes all of it ;-)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47661744)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:40 PM
Author: Motley Orange Trailer Park Coldplay Fan

Lmao

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654245)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:39 PM
Author: glittery selfie

There are basically no trailer parks in Germany. Anywhere.

The vast majority of small towns or villages in Germany look like idyllic upper-scale towns in America.

So it depends on how you measure wealth and poverty.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654240)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:41 PM
Author: Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets

vast swaths of Eastern Germany are covered in Soviet era housing blocks, just dressed up a bit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654248)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:58 PM
Author: glittery selfie

Well, those are the relics of a non-German system - an historical aberration. It's not rational to dynamite a functional Soviet-era building if it can be fixed up.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654288)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:02 PM
Author: Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets

they actually took the top 2-3 floor off to make them last longer

but my point was that they are the functional equivalent and house the same quality of human

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654299)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:43 PM
Author: mewling piazza sandwich

larger german cities are flooded with foreigners and are genuinely unpleasant/somewhat dangerous if you aren't also a nafri or an african. even the oldschool turks are being displaced by younger and more aggressive newcomers. much of frankfurt is already lost.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654253)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:44 PM
Author: Stirring Philosopher-king Tattoo

Now do Detroit and Baltimore.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654260)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:48 PM
Author: mewling piazza sandwich

right, but you can still white-flight your way out of those places. germany has been building 'migrant centers' even in smaller towns. western europe's demography looks increasingly shitty, especially since there is no mechanism or will to stop the boats full of illegals coming up from africa.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654274)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:13 PM
Author: glittery selfie

A hidden advantage Germany has is far less affirmative action. Meaning that they can fill positions important to their society with white Germans. I've posted videos of police academies in Germany with the entire training class of 100 or so being lily white.

As far as migrants, they are trying to bribe the North African countries to stop them there, with some success.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654319)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:59 PM
Author: glittery selfie

The entire West is headed to oblivion. Germany will get there later than America, mainly because its white people tend to be smarter than America's.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654293)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 9:00 PM
Author: electric hospital private investor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654625)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 9:35 PM
Author: amethyst fragrant boltzmann

Don't those look cute from the outside, but on the inside its like orignial to the fucking 1700s?

Think of how shitty stuff is in the US that dates back to the 90s?

There's a reason those old homes are selling for $1 but trialer homes at least go for like $50,000 now...



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654677)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:01 PM
Author: narrow-minded mentally impaired giraffe candlestick maker

Most educated people seem to make around 70-100k. People at Microsoft, AWS, Google quite a bit more. Sure that sounds poor to Americans but stuff is cheaper. Groceries and eating out and drinking are legit like 1/3 as much

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654298)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:02 PM
Author: Racy Slap-happy Theater Stage Nibblets

Lmao no, much lower

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654302)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:06 PM
Author: Stirring Philosopher-king Tattoo

There's also less stigma and fewer negative consequences to making less money.

In America you have to make a lot of money but then have to burn much of it on escaping blacks and Mexicans and paying for college, housing, etc that Euros get for free.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654314)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 7:03 PM
Author: Ruby tank

in europe there is a much clearer divide between the haves and the have nots, because youre either old money or not. you cant maek it by inventing My Pillow or whatever. theres no point to working hard or striving there

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654393)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 7:45 PM
Author: Heady sooty bawdyhouse

"theres no point to working hard or striving there"

sounds like america but without the pretense that living to maximize wealth will make you happy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654505)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 10:26 PM
Author: chrome pisswyrm



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654757)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 2:38 PM
Author: chrome pisswyrm

yo nigger you are mad brown!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47655963)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 7:43 PM
Author: low-t hateful cumskin

They have high speed rail tho

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654503)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 9:41 PM
Author: talented shrine

They would do better as Russian chattel slaves. They will be turned into said chattel slaves. All will be right with the world.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654692)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 2:46 PM
Author: disgusting office

Tell me where in euro (in areas that actually like to live and visit more than once) is housing actually cheap? Even shitholes like tallinn and budapest have $1mln Apts in city centre...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47655986)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 3:03 PM
Author: pungent cuckold

the cities in the Flanders part of Belgium seem affordable

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656033)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 14th, 2024 10:57 AM
Author: disgusting office

U might as well buy in nebraska.. just saw a spam add "buy luxury apt in badalona, starting at 567k". Yeah miami prices and probably built with paper thin walls.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47660346)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 9:29 PM
Author: transparent church

The UK literally has a lower GDP per capita than fucking Mississippi. lol.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656801)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 9:35 PM
Author: violet frum legal warrant

Every European i meet seems rich

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656813)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 9:36 PM
Author: Topaz trump supporter resort

rich inner life or rich financially?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656816)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 9:54 PM
Author: Saffron Business Firm

Being rich is always a mark of corruption and malice. Euros have been through so much more shit than the Amerimutts, but the US likes to pretend that their trajectory will be somehow different. We can basically look at Europe to see what the culmination of all our naive and insipid values will be imo.

There was a great Danish Film called Speak No Evil released in 2022. It was one of the darkest nastiest movies I’ve ever seen. Really got you right in the soul like a great work of art should. It made me realize that nothing like that could ever be produced/financed in the US. Whatever their faults, Euros know that Life is Fundamentally Meaningless.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656836)



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Date: May 12th, 2024 10:51 PM
Author: Irate National

Read the wiki summary and that movie looks 180

The closest we get is The Strangers

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656954)



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Date: May 14th, 2024 10:59 AM
Author: Rusted vigorous dysfunction

they will always have Culture over the rest of the world-- especially materialistic and shallow America

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47660353)