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Shitlibs and Christcucks BOTH need to explain Jesus and the rich young ruler
Poast new message in this thread
Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:01 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Here's what BOTH shitlibs and Christcucks need to take into account:
1. This story satisfies the criterion of multiple attestation. It is told in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Not many other "facts" about Jesus meet that criterion. Let's assume the gospels originated as oral traditions. When you have three separate records of an oral tradition, all of which include the same story, that implies that illiterate people telling the story of Jesus were telling you about Jesus and the rich young ruler.*
2. It is consistent with archaeology and history and the laws of physics as we know them. There are no miracles happening here. Two men are just having a conversation. Shitlibs can't play that card.
3. This is the big one: it satisfies the criterion of embarrassment. Every leader of every major christian domination will tell you "DO NOT TAKE THIS LITERALLY." They all have some song and dance about how it's allegory. If Jesus literally meant what he says to the rich young ruler*, like if he means it LITERALLY, then 99.999% of Christians are fucked, and the ones who aren't fucked are in mental institutions or living in homeless camps.
Shitlibs, your question is: why can't this be invoked as evidence that Jesus actually existed?
Christcucks, your question: why shouldn't Jesus be taken literally here?
*yes I said "ruler" because I'm told the Greek word used to introduce him implies that he was expected to inherit some title of minor nobility in the Roman empire, and I think that's important in light of #3. |
Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:03 PM Author: lake metal goyim Interested in responses here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747844) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:03 PM Author: racy avocado orchestra pit haunted graveyard Most shitlibs think Jesus existed. Why are you so dumb? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747845) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:05 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Can I invoke this story as evidence in support of that proposition? That is my question to shitlibs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747848) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:06 PM Author: racy avocado orchestra pit haunted graveyard Yeah, and I think Bart Ehrman does. If not this story, others that make Jesus look weak or whatever. Carrier is a fringe figure. |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:12 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce I think St. Francis thought it was important. I thought it was a big deal when this Pope named himself Francis. I associate it with communism. Separately, I think it has some evidential value in testing certain theories about the historical Jesus. Shitlibs should stop arguing about whether this dood existed I think, and focus more on the question of whether he really meant what he said to this rich dood. I think if you are a shitlib who wants to torment christcucks, you can hit them with this and watch how they try to dance around it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747860) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:10 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Why Jesus' Words Upset Us
But Jesus' words don't just upset the rich young ruler. They also upset us. As a pastor I have heard many times the response to this passage: "That doesn't mean everyone should sell what they have, does it? If everyone did that it would result in chaos."
Obviously. But why are we even worried with the question? Do we, too, feel possessive of what we have? Do we fear that Jesus may require us to do something that would cost us too much? What are we afraid of? And why do we fear?
We fear because we sense that we are not fully surrendered, that's why. Jesus' words to the rich young ruler are quite consistent with what he has been saying to his disciples throughout his journeys:
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters -- yes, even his own life -- he cannot be my disciple. And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26-27).
"In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:33)
"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it" (Matthew 13:44-46).
"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it" (Luke 9:24).
"Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it" (Luke 17:33) Then Come, Follow Me (Luke 18:22b)
The story of the rich young ruler exposes a raw nerve in us that causes a reaction. But disposing of wealth was not all that Jesus asked the man to do.
"When Jesus heard this, he said to him, 'You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'" (18:22)
He concludes with two commands. "Come" is Greek deuro, an adverb functioning as an interjection, "here, (come) here, come!"784 The word "follow" is the characteristic word of discipleship, Greek akoloutheō, "follow," figuratively, "to follow someone as a disciple, be a disciple, follow."785
However, I don't think that the following Jesus invites this man to do is just figurative. Jesus looked at this man and loved him (Mark 10:21). I think he is inviting the rich young man to join him on his journeys, to become one of the disciples who enjoys the immense and unspeakable privilege of spending time with Jesus and learning from him on a day-by-day basis. What a wonderful invitation!
But the invitation implicit to us is no less wonderful. We, too, are invited to come to Jesus, and then to follow him on a spiritual life journey. To enjoy his company, his presence. To be taught along the way by his Word and Spirit. To become part of his great extended family, the Body of Christ throughout the world. And to be filled with hope in the closing days of our journey as we know his promises and feel his comfort with us.
"Come, follow me," is the invitation Jesus extends to you and me.
https://www.jesuswalk.com/luke/080-rich-young-ruler.htm |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:16 PM Author: lake metal goyim Best explanation seems to be that Jesus was inviting that young man to sell everything that he had, but didn't mean it as a general rule for everyone. Does that make any sense? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747867) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:18 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce He says it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. That is the rule. There is nothing special about this young man, there's just this one additional rule everyone has to follow to enter the Kingdom of God. Unless you think there's something special about this dood that made him uniquely analogous to a camel. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747871) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:35 PM Author: Marvelous codepig national depends on what "rich" is and whether being generous with your money is enough. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748321) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 9:49 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Jesus' instructions imply that the man cannot have any money or possessions. It's not like bankruptcy where you get to keep a certain amount of assets. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748767) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:35 PM Author: Marvelous codepig national Jesus could tell the rich young man was living sinfully because of all the money. If modern people can avoid living sinfully with their money then they're good to go, man. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748319) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:20 PM Author: Cobalt Philosopher-king Idiot you are supposed to spiritually detach yourself from your wealth (for some people this means you need to sell everything). that's the moral sense of the passage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747875) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:21 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Why can't I just take it to mean what it says? I don't get why this statement by Jesus requires any sort of creative interpretation in the first place. Can I not just take it literally? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747880) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:36 PM Author: Cobalt Philosopher-king Idiot no, because the ancients spoke in riddles. they don't speak like we do today (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747922) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:40 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce If ancient people were people trying to do the opposite of that - if they wanted to get a message through loud and clear - wouldn't it look like this? They crammed this story into three separate gospels, and Jesus doesn't pull his punches in any retelling of the story. This is the one time I feel like we can really take Jesus' words to the bank. Literally. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747941) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:37 PM Author: Marvelous codepig national If you have a family, you can't just desert them to sell it all and follow Jesus. If you have other obligations, the same applies. Just don't go buying 35000 sq ft mansions when 4000 sq ft will do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748331) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:00 PM Author: glittery mother jesus also said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven. he meant it literally, but christians simply don't want to take his words seriously because it would be hard.
99.99% of christians are going to hell if jesus was god. |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:02 PM Author: Cobalt Philosopher-king Idiot I don't disagree with this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748027) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:12 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce The most parsimonious explanation for all of this is that Jesus thought the Kingdom of God would occur in his lifetime. He was not telling the man he'd have to be poor for very long.
Really, the most parsimonious explanation is that Jesus was an apocalyptic cult leader. Or at least that's what he'd be called today. These people have ALWAYS existed in Jewish and Christian tradition. Heavens Gate, all that shit. There are always people who say they ran the math through scripture, and they did some numerology, and it's going to happen on this date. Then the date comes and nothing happens. Then they say "oh I got the math wrong I was off by 20 years." There are people alive today who peddle this scam to sell books for a living.
In this case, the dood fuckin died. The Kingdom of God didn't come. So there was an immediate need to transform the story into something allegorical. There was no other way to keep the faith going after the dude was literally crucified. You couldn't make about Him being around in earthly form anymore, so you couldn't tell people His new Kingdom was imminent. It was really about his disciples and whether they would continue to have any stature, or whether people would say they were rubes who got scammed by Jesus. |
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Date: September 7th, 2023 1:43 PM Author: Sadistic supple stag film *slow clap, followed by roaring applause, followed by a spirited singing of Hava Nagila* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46766004) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:17 PM Author: rambunctious nursing home lmao @ this third worldist chinkbot seething (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748062) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:13 PM Author: glittery mother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748244) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:21 PM Author: medicated primrose karate school Explained well here
https://www.youtube.com/live/llcKlW64chQ |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:29 PM Author: khaki location feces I like this guy’s videos, listened to a lot of his stuff. He’s usually very on point (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747898) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:43 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce An hour? I skipped through it randomly and I don't see the part where he explains why I can't just take the passage literally. It seems like Jesus literally said you have to give up everything to enter the Kingdom of God. Why isn't that the most plausible explanation for this passage being recorded like that, THREE times? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747949) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:45 PM Author: Cobalt Philosopher-king Idiot you do have to give up everything in a spiritual sense. this is 100% christian teaching. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747958) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:46 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Why don't I have to give away all my money? It seems like Jesus said I have to do that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747965) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:51 PM Author: Cobalt Philosopher-king Idiot that is the ideal we should strive for. he is setting the ideal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747982) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:53 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Bro. You are strongly softpedaling the implications of this interaction. This man disappears from the picture at this point in the story, because he refuses to give up his wealth. He is not there in Jerusalem. He is not present at the last supper or the crucifixion. He is locked out. You seem to think he's not not dun here after Jesus says three times that he's dun here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747990) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:54 PM Author: Cobalt Philosopher-king Idiot yes, most wealthy people are fucking done here. have you ever been around wealthy people? they are much less likely to be religious and care about god. its usually poor people who have nothing who are more likely to care about the afterlife since they have no material comforts in this life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747994) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:56 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Jesus was around one of those people and this is what he said: you cannot enter the Kingdom of God if you are wealthy. The wealthy person then exits the stage in this story. The end. Jesus said u have to give up EVERYTHING. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748006) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:58 PM Author: Cobalt Philosopher-king Idiot that is not what he said retard:
“If you want to be [a]complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
what did u score on the LSAT? |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:04 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce No one wants to talk about the camel. They want to pretend that Jesus is only talking about this one specific guy, but Jesus makes it clear this is like a camel trying to go through the eye of a needle. He's describing what you're trying to do right now, trying to cram a giant load of obfuscation through a few simple words recorded in three separate gospels. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748034) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:43 PM Author: Marvelous codepig national back then you were rich if you had chairs in your house and more than two cups (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748350) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:30 PM Author: big-titted multi-billionaire striped hyena Mega church said I can be rich (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747902) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:46 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Catholic church says the church can be rich. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747961) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:51 PM Author: big-titted multi-billionaire striped hyena heh heh (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747984) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:55 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce "Pope Francis" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747995) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:03 PM Author: glittery mother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748031) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:46 PM Author: Razzmatazz House Organic Girlfriend Impossible to take any argument relying on the "criterion of embarrassment" seriously. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747964) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 5:48 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Use occam's razor then. What's more likely: that Jesus meant what he said? Or that [insert convoluted diagram of the soul]?" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46747974) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:00 PM Author: big-titted multi-billionaire striped hyena its more likely that some folks just invented shit he said for fun (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748023) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:07 PM Author: Razzmatazz House Organic Girlfriend From my perspective, the story lacks verisimilitude. It does not strike me as a literal account of an event that occurred. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748043) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:24 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce ANTIFA is a bunch of doods saying "give up your property." People like Benzo take that shit seriously. But it's so hard to believe someone would talk like that 2000 years ago?
Also, as I've tried to point out elsewhere, this was happening within the context of a very internal Jewish thing that was happening. These gospels were written by jews, for Jews. Saul was a very Jewish man. I think if you examine these events in the context of Jewish law it's more plausible that Jesus was really saying you have to give up everything. |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:38 PM Author: Razzmatazz House Organic Girlfriend I think you're misunderstanding me. I am not expressing a view as to whether anyone intended to state that righteousness strictly requires giving up all worldly possessions. Rather, the anecdote recounted in Matthew 19:16–30, Mark 10:17–31 and Luke 18:18–30 doesn't, to me, sound like an actual occurrence. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748140) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:50 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Why would anyone invent that story? It does nothing to advance the narrative and does not make the story more appealing to outsiders. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748375) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:06 PM Author: Multi-colored black woman >Christcucks, your question: why shouldn't Jesus be taken literally here?
He should be taken literally. And in the last sentence of the story he says that God is what's needed to enter heaven. I.e., God is the sine qua non of salvation. He is NOT saying that wealth-having damns you.
Taking him as saying "if you got money you can't go to Heaven" would require that you deny his claim about God at the end.
The only literal way to take what he's saying is to understand that the comments about eye of a needle taken literally would be you taking them HYPER-literally like a fuckin aspie.
Not to mention there's scholarship about the camel in the eye of a needle being a shit translation. It should be "rope through eye of needle" but in Aramaic camel and rope are homophonic AND homonymous, and Koine Greek they're /almost/ homophones. |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:07 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce What claim about God at the end? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748042) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:09 PM Author: Multi-colored black woman [26] . . . "Then who can be saved?” [27] Looking at them, Jesus *said, “With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748046) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:11 PM Author: glittery mother this sounds like cope. christians when confronted with the actual demands of the bible ignore the ones that are too hard, like remarrying being adultery. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748050) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:37 PM Author: Multi-colored black woman It sounds like cope to retards
>[26] . . . "Then who can be saved?” [27] Looking at them, Jesus *said, “With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.”
To assert it's impossible for rich people to enter heaven is to call Jesus a liar for what he says a couple verses later. This is how you know he was bustin balls, not constructing an analytical philosophy argument. |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 6:55 PM Author: Fragrant drunken gaping (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748190) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:06 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce What I think is ironic is that I don't think it would have sounded that way in Jesus' own lifetime. If he was staging a revolt at the temple, installing himself as king, and putting twelve disciples in charge of the 12 tribes, he needs to ensure loyalty. There's only one way this dood could show loyalty and that was to walk away from his royalty and his riches. If the guy wasn't willing to do that, Jesus could not count on him to be loyal when they got to the temple. Neither of them were thinking about some hypothetical afterlife when they were having this discussion. Jesus was ready to get it on like Waingro. He didn't know he was going to die. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748234) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 9:09 PM Author: Marvelous codepig national "remarrying being adultery."
plenty of Christians still think that. Unfortunately "muh rights!!" and people who like NSA sex are in control. |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:13 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce When St. Francis heard these words, he felt like Jesus was speaking directly to him. The word of God was living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing and judging the heart of Francis; and he did not want to be like the young man who went away grieving. Francis felt deeply that the best way to bring God’s kin-dom on earth was to do his part in dismantling systems of oppression and inequality by relinquishing everything he had to the point of stripping naked in Assisi’s town center. He knew that, before God’s presence, no creature is hidden, but all are naked and laid bare to the eyes of the one to whom we must render an account. And he embraced his most beautiful bride whom he called “Holy Poverty.” For Francis, who is the most beloved and Christ-like saint of the last thousand years (at least), poverty and even sickness were not a sign of God’s curse, but God’s blessing.
The last words of St. Francis were: “I have done what was mine to do. May Christ teach you what you are to do.” May we allow Christ to teach us what we are to do through the Word of God this morning. May the Word of God be alive and active for you, sharper than any two-edged sword. May it pierce us in our hearts and challenge us with our wallets so that we don’t walk away grieving like the rich, young ruler, but rather rejoicing like St. Francis, who was known for singing hymns and songs of praise in the woods, giving thanks for his great high priest who sympathized with his weakness, who helped him in his time of need, and who made that which felt impossible possible. Amen.
https://deforestlondon.wordpress.com/2021/10/12/st-francis-and-the-rich-young-ruler/ |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:18 PM Author: idiotic pistol corner https://www.liturgicalartsjournal.com/2019/07/medieval-lace-albs-of-st-francis-and.html?m=1 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748255) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:21 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Prestigious. IIRC his father was a tailor, so I'm sure he had fine taste even in "poverty." Mao and Pol Pot could dress up too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748263) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:33 PM Author: Marvelous codepig national To live by the rule, you need to live simply enough that you don't have too much, don't waste money on extravagances and be generous to the poor and to the Church. If you have a lot of money you need to use it wisely and thank God for the gift (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748307) |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:36 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Jesus told this man to give away everything in no uncertain terms.
He also makes it clear repeatedly that money is not necessary if you are in his crew. He has wine. He has food. He has a big feast for passover in a foreign town. You don't need money to get into the club, you need to show loyalty by giving up your money.
Remember too that this same man has a problem with people exchanging their money at the temple gate. They never really tell you why that would piss him off. Churches just gloss right over this. Many people conflate money changing with money lending, but that's not at all what was going on. |
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Date: September 2nd, 2023 7:47 PM Author: Pale disgusting nibblets temple Great thread. Would read again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46748367) |
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Date: September 6th, 2023 11:42 PM Author: Drab boiling water abode 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
implausible that centurion was destitute. centurion = gentile (assumption). statement that gentiles (“east and west”) will enter the kingdom. implication: centurion/gentile causing jesus’ pronouncement has faith sufficient for admission. result: no requirement to renounce all material possessions in all cases, but be wary of things of the world
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Date: September 6th, 2023 11:44 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Fails criterion of multiple attestation and criterion of embarrassment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46763987) |
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Date: September 7th, 2023 9:28 AM Author: Drab boiling water abode BUT SEE second source relating same interaction: matthew 8:5-13 (source 1 is luke) criterion of embarrassment: jesus’ words condemning his/the authors’ own people and commending gentiles (conflicting with jewish view of unworthiness of gentiles) 11 And I tell you this, that many Gentiles will come from all over the world—from east and west—and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob at the feast in the Kingdom of Heaven. 12 But many Israelites—those for whom the Kingdom was prepared—will be thrown into outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” |
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Date: September 7th, 2023 1:28 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce Even if I concede all those points, it boils down to a conflict of laws question IMO. I think in these cases it's customary to defer to the law that goes more directly to the point at issue. In this case, the statement that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God is categorical. If you want to argue that Jesus allows rich people into the Kingdom of God, it seems like you'd need to argue that camels can pass through the eyes of needles first. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46765932) |
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Date: September 7th, 2023 1:42 PM Author: Drab boiling water abode major autism enjoyer here but id suggest that, as demonstrated by parables generally and the recurring allegory of the feast/bridegroom, not every red letter uttered was intended to be taken 100% literally, but were instead intended to impart a framework of principles for followers to live by which should be interpreted using wisdom/discernment/common sense. disconcertingly vague, yes, but dem divine mysteries don’t come with a decoder ring alternative explanation: random centurion found to be the smallest camel ever to live |
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Date: September 7th, 2023 1:45 PM Author: Laughsome Pearly Senate Lettuce I'm gonna dig into this. Ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46766014) |
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Date: September 7th, 2023 1:59 PM Author: Drab boiling water abode 👍 im spitballing a bit here, lmk if what you see makes my take look like pure cope. your lens on events is endlessly interesting (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5398652&forum_id=2#46766057) |