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*helps rich dumb urms, wonders why AA isn't working*
Poast new message in this thread
Date: March 6th, 2010 11:47 PM Author: Deranged Legend Rehab http://www.law.ucla.edu/sander/systemic/final/sanderfinal.pdf
"The first student survey I conducted suggested that UCLA’s diversity programs had produced little socioeconomic variety; students of all races were predominantly upper crust. Black-white performance gaps were very large, and this had visible effects on classroom interaction."
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:48 PM Author: Twinkling angry dopamine field There's already a thread about this that nobody is responding to (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318473) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:49 PM Author: Deranged Legend Rehab get lost fag i remember when you wanted AA for yourself over urms who actually deserve it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318487) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:54 PM Author: Twinkling angry dopamine field Wasn't my argument that I deserve it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318534) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:58 PM Author: big-titted digit ratio you said before that you're a rich bitch, no? or at least not economically disadvantaged, and that you didn't care that you got it over URMs who are more deserving. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318577) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:04 AM Author: Twinkling angry dopamine field I said that I didn't care that I got it over poorer people. I rejected your suggestion that wealth determines how deserving a candidate is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318637) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:05 AM Author: Bisexual Wonderful Set Chad the argument is that the deserving candidate is one who has a reason to score lower. generally this would be because they're getting a worse education due to lower ses. this type of person is probably smarter than their score indicates.
if you are not disadvantaged and you can't compete, it just means you're dumb and no one should bother with you.
the lower ses urm or white trash will probably do better than the dumb as shit rich urm because the former is likely innately more intelligent. they're probably more driven too to get to that point despite the obstacles. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:08 AM Author: Twinkling angry dopamine field your argument only holds true if AA exists to help poor blacks for the sake of helping poor blacks. If it exists to uplift the race, I pointed out that pushing the already wealthy and socially supported into professional ranks would aggregate wealth much more effectively since those with money and support have a higher chance of actually finishing school and succeeding and then passing on those opportunities. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318669) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:13 AM Author: Bisexual Wonderful Set Chad i argue that the point of AA is acknowledging that due to no fault of their own, people do not start out on a level playing field. if you apply the same standard to everyone, some people will be excluded even though they're intelligent enough because they were arbitrarily given a worse education usually due to low ses. therefore, you relax the hard standards for those with indicia of intelligence and determination.
even if the point is uplifting race, you're probably better off targeting the URMs from the top of the poor people shit heap. they are most likely to be innately intelligent and have the drive to succeed.
the privileged urm who scored lower is never going to be able to compete against their more intelligent peers. helping them is a waste of time.
you can fix the more likely to finish school problem by providing good need based aid. many ivy schools, including places like harvard, do that these days.
hth |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:25 AM Author: Twinkling angry dopamine field Helping the poor genius doesn't do anything when he has to drop out the second anything goes wrong in his home life. There just isn't enough of a support structure to expect people with unstable backgrounds to thrive in an atmosphere that demands extreme stability for a minimum of three years (realistically 7 counting undergrad). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318812) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:32 AM Author: Bisexual Wonderful Set Chad you will say anything to hang on to your AA no matter who you hurt in the process. you are selling out your poor smart black brother for your own benefit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318851) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:39 AM Author: laughsome lay mexican you're exaggerating. you sound like you're arguing based on self interest. you should take a long, hard look at the person you've become. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318890) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:42 AM Author: Excitant Fuchsia Temple a lot of poors finish. it's called financial aid dumbass. you're going to great lengths to manufacture hurdles for smart poor blacks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318911) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:49 AM Author: Twinkling angry dopamine field Financial aid is inflexible and not designed to provide much of a safety net. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318958) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:56 AM Author: Excitant Fuchsia Temple i got through college and law school on financial aid and scholarships. i never had to drop out, nor would "one family problem" have forced me to drop out. you apply for it each january and there it is. never had any problems with "inflexibility" i didn't even have the benefit of that awesome package that harvard's offering, just the generic handouts.
you probably don't know anything about financial aid because you're rich dumb black kid.
also, i came from a poor as shit background, got into a much better ls than you without racial preferences, and my grades were a whole lot better. |
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Date: March 9th, 2010 7:50 AM Author: Odious Cerise Bawdyhouse Striped Hyena holy shit, you are fucking stupid.
I'm one of those "poor URMs" and attending the toilet Ivy I go to is way cheaper than going to my own state school. You don't know anything, you stupid POS. |
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Date: March 9th, 2010 7:52 AM Author: Deranged Legend Rehab cr. this dood's at the bottom of his ls class too.
Date: March 6th, 2010 8:56 PM
Author: Cautious T26 URM
So if I get up to the cusp of bottom third/bottom 40%, what are my OCI chances?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1146038&forum_id=2#14317102)
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:55 PM Author: Awkward Fighting Shrine Roast Beef dude that study is pretty damning
take a look at page 61 - 50% of all blacks are in the bottom 10%, 70% of blacks are in the bottom 20% |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:00 AM Author: Deranged Legend Rehab (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14330830) |
Date: March 6th, 2010 11:49 PM Author: Deranged Legend Rehab "The admission preferences extended to blacks are very large and do not successfully identify students who will perform better than one would predict based on their academic indices." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318486) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:50 PM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED TO DEATH
WE ARE AWARE THAT WEAKER STUDENTS WILL TEND NOT TO PERFORM AS HIGHLY AS STRONGER STUDENTS |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:51 PM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water all blacks are weak students (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318501) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:51 PM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band Proof? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318504) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:54 PM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water http://online.sfsu.edu/~psych200/unit7/blackiq.gif
Effectively zero blacks have IQs > 130... the bare minimum to be considered "intelligent" |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:56 PM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band Ahh, so that one study based on about 100 blacks in one area predicts that "effectively zero percent blacks have IQs > 130" everywhere..
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:56 PM Author: Awkward Fighting Shrine Roast Beef respond to my post (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318553) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:56 PM Author: greedy fiercely-loyal public bath is there a way i can find out my iq based on lsat? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318548) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:58 PM Author: Histrionic Bipolar Area Round Eye (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318567) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:59 PM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water generally yes... <0.3% of blacks score >170 for instance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318582) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:56 PM Author: Awkward Fighting Shrine Roast Beef page 61
50% of black students are in the bottom 10%
70% in the bottom 20%
if that doesn't say it all, i don't know what does
remember, this is a nationwide study, so you're getting a pretty good idea of the typical black student's performance |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:58 PM Author: big-titted digit ratio but sander is saying AA was going to wealthy urms based on their skin color. AA wasn't at all being directed to those who you would think could do better than their scores suggested. that is the problem with stricly raced based AA.
things probably haven't changed because rich URMs are more powerful politically than poor URMs and white trash and they want the AA for their own. |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:59 PM Author: Awkward Fighting Shrine Roast Beef oh. well my point is that black students are terrible. everybody in law school knows this, but this study confirms it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318589) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:03 AM Author: Bisexual Wonderful Set Chad i don't agree that black = dumb. i think though that stricly raced based AA often helps rich dumb urms over intelligent poor urms and white trash. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318624) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:07 AM Author: Awkward Fighting Shrine Roast Beef so your argument is that this nationwide aggregate study of black law students does not reflect on black abilities because blacks in law school are generally upper income blacks, who tend to be *dumber* than poor blacks?
it's interesting that you think blacks from wealthier backgrounds would actually tend to be dumber than blacks from poorer backgrounds |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:09 AM Author: jet corner black woman No, the really smart brothas choose not to go into law. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318670) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:11 AM Author: Awkward Fighting Shrine Roast Beef so your saying that even though this is a NATIONAL AGGREGATE STUDY, there is this special elite group of black students not included that would do well if they pursued law? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318691) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:00 AM Author: jet corner black woman of course. AA is now a patronage system involving guilty white liberals and black alumni who secure slots for their children. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318594) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:50 PM Author: Histrionic Bipolar Area Round Eye (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318492) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:01 AM Author: violent grizzly senate stain Serious Q:
In what sense, exactly, is AA not working?
Are there not plenty of successful black doctors and lawyers these days? |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:03 AM Author: Histrionic Bipolar Area Round Eye wealthy, dumb URMs get slots over poors of all races (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318627) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:03 AM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water lol no there are neither... despite harvard accepting 18 MCAT blacks, they can't even score decently high on the USMLE to land decent residencies.
Good luck find a black radiologist. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:08 AM Author: jet corner black woman 18 MCAT? Flame? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318664) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:11 AM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water flaming to a point but lol sadly not really
23s and black get into Harvard http://www.mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=6403&refname=Search%20Results&refuri=search,search_totalmcat_from:15,search_totalmcat_to:21,search_appstatus:accepted,search_school:0,psr:0,orderby:,order: |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:11 AM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band Flame. Link the stats. I know of blacks with +30 MCAT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318693) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:14 AM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table19-mcatpgaraceeth09-web.pdf
I highly doubt that you did |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:16 AM Author: Racy saffron station mad-dog skullcap My best bud from ugrad got a 36. No flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318745) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:19 AM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band No. I do. Of course, I'm Canadian and they matriculated into Canadian med schools. Anyway, this doesn't list Harvard MCAT matriculants. All it lists are averages. A bunch of idiots can take the MCAT and 5 with 40 MCAT can get into Harvard and the average would still be low. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318761) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:20 AM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water I know... Harvard doesn't give you MCATs according to race for obv reasons. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318773) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:21 AM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band Ahhh, so you lied about the MCAT 18 thing? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318785) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:23 AM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water reread the subthread genius... I said I was exaggerating but not by much. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318794) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:25 AM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band You don't know the average black Harvard MCAT score though. I don't know if you were exaggerating as much as just plain lying. I am 100% sure no one at Harvard has a MCAT below 30. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318814) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:03 AM Author: Bisexual Wonderful Set Chad The first student survey I conducted suggested that UCLA’s diversity programs had produced little socioeconomic variety; students of all races were predominantly upper crust.5 Black-white performance gaps were very large, and this had visible effects on classroom interaction.
The admission preferences extended to blacks are very large and do not successfully identify students who will perform better than one would predict based on their academic indices. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:04 AM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band Are you suggesting that most successful black doctors and lawyers are products of AA?
You would think the best black lawyers would probably be as such because they have the aptitude for being successful in the first place. If AA had something to do with the majority of them being successful, then it works else it doesn't. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:05 AM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water they are products of AA... and success is completely relative in this sense.
They are not successful in any meaningful way. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:11 AM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band Success isn't relative in this sense. Successful people tend to be relatively wealthy people and relatively people tend to be smart people. If they are products of AA, then it is a wonder that they are successful at all if AA doesn't work. If they are not, then they were always destined to be successful. I would bet the most successful black lawyers are the ones who were higher than median in LS and thus weren't AA material. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318685) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:12 AM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water Um... no I'm talking about success in meaningful ways.
Starting a company and turning it into a billion/yr revenue empire etc
Also lol yeah and? success in law isn't real success |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:16 AM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band Starting a company and turning it into a billion/yr revenue empire isn't germane the definition of what defines a successful lawyers (or doctor), which is what we were talking about. Stay on topic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318740) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:17 AM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water Yeah and like I said, good luck finding a black radiologist or neurologist
The reason you won't find it is because the USMLE (just like any hard standardized test that you must score in a certain percentile on to even be considered) destroys any chances they have. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:21 AM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band Which is why we said we mentioned the successful black doctors and lawyers, not the losers. By successful, we mean the people in the high-paying salaries and positions. Those people are not AA material. TheDude is wrong in saying that those people are examples of the success of AA. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318780) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:22 AM Author: At-the-ready Pisswyrm Boiling Water ok... find me some examples of top grads that wind up as neurologists or radiologists
I guarantee you there's like 5 in the entire US that make it so far. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:30 AM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band First, let me answer the central question before going on some tangential black professional witch hunt:
"Are the blacks who are successful doctors and lawyers proof of AA's success?"
Not in the sense that AA provides admission advantage to those with loser grades as they didn't need that boost. As for counting how many black radiologists and neurologists exist in the USA--I guess I'll have to roll up my sleeves (as if it matters whatsoever to the answer of the initial question that I find these people). |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:09 AM Author: violent grizzly senate stain I'm not talking specifically about the very best among black lawyers.
I'm sure there are a lot AA admits amongst the set of successful black professionsals. Probably not amongst the most successful of them, though, you're right about that.
I'm not sure about this, of course, which is why I'm asking a question rather than just making a statement. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:12 AM Author: Awkward Fighting Shrine Roast Beef honestly how many good black lawyers are there
johnny cochran and |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:13 AM Author: concupiscible pozpig elastic band So, good black lawyers don't exist? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318709) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:19 AM Author: Awkward Fighting Shrine Roast Beef i mean...i dont know...u tell me (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318763) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:13 AM Author: violent grizzly senate stain Well many of them have hearts that are BLACK!
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:23 AM Author: Awkward Fighting Shrine Roast Beef true, black brown red or white, they're all black on the inside (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318793) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:24 AM Author: Cyan cuck mental disorder that study is way too fucking long to read (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318802) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:25 AM Author: Awkward Fighting Shrine Roast Beef oh hai u might benefit from AA dude (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14318807) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 6:36 PM Author: Hateful church building Dude, competitive URMs aren't going to law school. They damn sure aren't going to UCLA. LOL. Even I'd admit that there's a huuuuuuuuge gap between black and white students at anything below the top 3 law schools and top 5 undergrads. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14324662) |
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Date: March 9th, 2010 7:48 AM Author: Deranged Legend Rehab (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243372&forum_id=2#14340346) |