Things all first-year lawyers should know
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: August 15th, 2010 9:44 AM Author: Yellow electric furnace sanctuary
As much as you can: work for male partners only.
Women partners and senior associates have major chips on their shoulders.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15792788) |
Date: August 15th, 2010 2:22 PM Author: stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor
A couple of things:
1. Billables are the most important thing as a junior, keep those up to keep your job.
I found this out the hard way. I was billing a crap load early on mainly because I was volunteering for doc review projects (although I was not litigation). Halfway through my 1st year, I had among the highest billables in my class and my midyear reviews were stellar. The partner who reviewed me commended me for my great work.
Second half of the year, my work dried up, and I couldn't even get on doc review. My billables fell sharply. Only about 4-5 months after my stellar midyear review, that same partner came in and told me that I sucked and stealthed me.
2. Cultivate relationships with the rainmakers.
These partners can keep giving you work. Unfortunately, this was my 2nd biggest mistake. The work I was getting early on was from partners without much say in the firm and not as much work to dole out. When shit got slow, my go-to partners didn't have work for me, while the rainmakers had work to give to their favorites.
3. Make contacts outside the firm starting like NOW.
Network, network, network. People will be willing to talk to you while you have a BIGLAW business card. MAke contacts now. You never know when you will WANT or be FORCED to GTFO.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15793952)
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Date: August 15th, 2010 4:15 PM Author: stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor
A lot of contacts will come to you, mostly trying to sell stuff. Give these people your time. Don't think anyone is beneath you or not worth your time. You don't have to buy what they are selling, but always be respectful of everyone you meet, you never know if you'd need their help in the future.
And yea, join your local bar association, attend alumni mixers, and of course, cultivate good relationships with your clients.
Even as a first year, I had several smaller clients that I dealt with and had frequent conversations with
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794626) |
Date: August 15th, 2010 3:21 PM Author: turquoise fat ankles
How do you all feel about having/making friends in biglaw? I was pretty good friends with a few guys up until a few months ago (going to lunch, occasional beers, etc) but mow that their hours are down and mine are steady I've noticed some passive aggressiveness and snide comments, in addition to being left out of some things. It's starting to make the work environment a little awkward/unpleasant.
I'd this just par for te course in biglaw? Am I restricted to finding friends outside of work?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794288) |
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Date: August 15th, 2010 4:29 PM Author: Glassy magical piazza
how good you are at the job -- know that. with all the incentives for self-deception and puffery, people often don't have a candid conversation, if only with themselves, about what they are and aren't good at. people who are pretty good brief writers feign interest in and ability at going to court and "client contact" because that seems to be what well-adjusted, socially adept alphas are good at. if you're the best in the firm, or just among your cohort,even if only at something relatively narrow, you can build a reputation for being indispensable that has the additional advantage of being true. and it's the people with a narrow but deep skill who can, at the right firm, create a 30-hour a week job that pays $250-300k. there's a firm where the partners make ten times that; but it also has at least a dozen of these specialists who probably have the best lives of anyone.
if you're great at the work being a partner at a major firm can be a superb, very satisfying job. and it's not difficult to know if you're that relatively rare person. it's the many, many people who split their time between pretending that's what they are and fretting that the truth will be discovered who define a predominant form of law firm misery. everyone else already knows the truth, and they don't give a fuck about your vaunted "social skills" or the extensive thought that went into your "casual Friday" ensemble.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794720) |
Date: August 15th, 2010 5:22 PM Author: floppy reading party
Do not work with black associates, if possible.
PURE SHIT, niggers' work product is.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795153) |
Date: August 15th, 2010 5:33 PM Author: dark spot
I provided the definitive word on this subject last year.
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1077491&forum_id=2
The game hasn't changed, only the players. I'll answer supplemental questions in this thread if you have any.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795222) |
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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:15 PM Author: electric rusted alpha
sounds terrible.
I can hardly focus after a normal day in the office - a 12 hour day and I'm cooked.
Working all night? I'd be pretty well useless. . .
There isn't much in the way of brainless transactional work.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795504) |
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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:17 PM Author: dark spot
"There isn't much in the way of brainless transactional work.
"
Was that a joke?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795525) |
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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:28 PM Author: Obsidian den toilet seat
are you not in a major market?
my corporate friends typically have a very bad week (or a few bad weeks) when a deal is closing (i.e. waking up at 4am to take calls in some far off country, sleeping 4-5 hours/night, if at all).
as for the 4 months thing, lots of clients seem to want to close at the drop of a hat and doesn't seem that organized in terms of timing so there are a lot of fire drills.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795582) |
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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:38 PM Author: electric rusted alpha
Closings tend to get pushed, not pulled. Usually everyone's too optimistic about when it can get closed and schedules a date that gets moved - everyone panics around it, but it usually works out ok.
Leading up to close can be very hectic yes and involve late nights, yes. But again, 90-95% is anything but brainless work. So while there are times when the hours can get long - I personally don't function well if it's too much of this. 300 hour months seem absolutely abhorrent to me and there is simply NO WAY I could do efficient, timely, accurate contract drafting working this many hours.
Maybe I'm just not cut out for it. . whatever, I really don't believe that anyone could do much better than I short of using stimulants.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795641) |
Date: August 15th, 2010 5:45 PM Author: Painfully Honest Judgmental Crackhouse Friendly Grandma
Some of my own tips:
1. The advice above about finding the rainmakers is good. A corollary to it: make sure that your client's in-house counsel knows you, can identify you by name, and likes you. You need to be a valuable asset to them. They're the ones paying the firm money; you want them comfortable with you and even asking for you in the future.
2. Document review is extremely important. If you're in the weeds understanding the facts, you'll be go-to person on the nitty-gritty facts that can make or break your case when things get heavy. I knew fairly senior partners who went out of their way to spend at least some time doing document review because that's the only way to get a handle on the case. If you're the master of the facts on your team, you will quickly become indispensable.
3. Get a good airline card with good reward miles depending on your firm's travel preferences.
4. Hours matter--and not just because that tends to make-or-break you for reviews, but because it's experience. The difference between a first-year who billed 2000 hours and a first-year who billed 2500 hours is that the latter has 25% more experience, even though they're the same class level.
5. Proofread one more time than you'd ordinarily do so.
6. Midlevels will blame you for their mistakes. So make no mistakes, or anticipate this and decide what's appropriate to do. This is one of the hardest areas to navigate, and I don't have much more advice than to be aware.
7. Better to respond to an e-mail in 30 minutes with some thought put into it than in 3 minutes suggesting you rushed a response or weren't busy and just had the time to respond some trivial answer.
8. Decide your financial plan and budget, today. You'll have extra money--are you going to invest it in your Roth 401(k), pay down your debt as quickly as possible, or create a safety net in a secondary banking account?
9. Don't get sick. This means exercising daily, eating well, and taking vitamins. The last thing you want is anything to knock you out of commission for a few days.
10. Have an exit plan. As in, if, 12 months from today, you were going to be at a different job, either voluntarily or involuntarily, what would you do? This involves keeping your resume up-to-date, keeping recommenders apprised of your current situation and (possibly) future interests, networking, and figuring out the best application seasons for other jobs as well as the most likely times you could lose yours (generally after reviews) or voluntarily end yours (generally the month after you receive your year-end bonus).
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795276) |
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Date: August 16th, 2010 2:29 PM Author: glittery abode mad-dog skullcap
"5. Proofread one more time than you'd ordinarily do so.
6. Midlevels will blame you for their mistakes. So make no mistakes, or anticipate this and decide what's appropriate to do. This is one of the hardest areas to navigate, and I don't have much more advice than to be aware. "
Very good advice, and directly correllated - do NOT expect people higher up the chain to catch all your mistakes, even though that's their job. Do expect them to occasionally put in mistakes that weren't there.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801508) |
Date: August 15th, 2010 6:10 PM Author: dark spot
Concede from the beginning: You will work all the time and have very little of a life outside of work.
By making this concession, you will keep yourself from getting frustrated when you end up spending your Friday nights cite checking. It should be a pleasant surprise when you make it out.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795470) |
Date: August 15th, 2010 8:07 PM Author: turquoise fat ankles
The main rainmaker in my practice group (he brings in 70% of the business) is a screamer who everyone is afraid of. However, he's a brilliant litigator and if he likes you, you're set. Some of the other juniors and midlevels actively avoid working for him, but they won't hit their billable targets.
I haven't worked for him yet, but am working for a nicer service partner where I just won't hit my targets at this rate. Should I try to get some work from the silverback? Thanks.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15796344) |
Date: August 16th, 2010 2:18 PM Author: Galvanic institution
If you have made it this far despite being somewhat lazy, the music is about to stop. If you weren't valedictorian, and instead were the person who could do the math in their head of exactly how many points you needed on the last test of the semester to turn a B into an A, you are at a much bigger disadvantage than you were in school. The key thing is that there's a bunch of stuff that seems like brown-nosing or striving to you, but actually serves as playing defense now. One short illustration: you get an email with an attachment from a supervisor with no immediate action required, and then don't read it for two days. Something comes up where that previously unimportant email and attachment are now at the center of your supervisor's attention. He calls you and asks about it. If you haven't at least opened the thing and glanced at it for five minutes you're going to look unprepared and lazy. Even if you can just mumble something that's barely comprehensible "oh, right, this was the thing where they had all those comments about our indemnification provision" that's 100000% better than "oh, yeah, I didn't have a chance to look at that." Even if everything else you do is perfect--work is good, on time, client's happy--the supervisor is still left with that initial bad impression of you blowing something off.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801405) |
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Date: August 16th, 2010 4:02 PM Author: Galvanic institution
If that's your attitude, then I have no idea why you would think my post has any application to you. Any non-alien/non-flamer understands that not all emails will get read right away by even the most uptight striver-gunner junior associate. My point is to encourage lazy people to err on the side of reading things and doing work when they think they might be able to get by without doing it. As a lazy person, it's very easy to come up with a reasonable excuse as to why you aren't supposed to read an email, like "the billing partner/client will see my time entry for this and think we're running up the bill." And so, as a lazy person, you can even convince yourself that you're doing the right thing for your firm and your client by not worrying about it until you are asked to do so (and if you do end up in a spot where you're caught with your pants down, make sure to raise this point directly to your supervisor so that you at least look like you thought about the issue). After all, being a lazy person, you're very good at working quick, under pressure, up to and past deadlines. So it barely registers to you that it's a mistake even when your supervisor asks later b/c you thought you did what they would've wanted, and, in reality, that's probably the case if the fire drill doesn't happen a couple days later (i.e. if it happened a week later, they wouldn't expect you to have the email fresh in your head).
The point of the story is not that it's objectively a mistake to not read an email as soon as it comes in; it's to show how perceptions can play a huge part in your fate at a firm. For people who enjoyed being perceived in school as "as smart as the gunners without having to work as hard" there is additional cost beyond any deficit in work product. Sometimes lazy people think that they're walking into Biglaw with a big advantage b/c their work style allows for more chaos and stress, and so they will have an easier time dealing with the hard parts of the job. And if a law firm was as charitable and forgiving a working environment as a prestigious undergrad university, this would probably prove true. The reason why that's not the case is that your chaotic style will get revealed before you have chance to show your ability to deal with pressure. Your typos will be expected b/c people will already have certain judgments in their heads based on the work persona you project. In effect you get dinged twice for being a lazy: once for being "laid back," and once for your typos. And so you'll get stuck with shitty work that you'll fuck up and as a result you'll never progress.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15802259) |
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Date: August 16th, 2010 5:27 PM Author: Obsidian den toilet seat
lol, i am the definition of a lazy associate and being lazy means spending 5 hours on something when others would spend 10 hrs perfecting it. the email stuff is baseline stuff that people who go into biglaw should know. it's like when some partner wanted a quinn emmanuel first year to fax a non-urgent doc at 7pm and he didn't get it until the morning. that's not really being lazy, that's saying you're utterly clueless about what this job entails and one such move means you're totlaly fucked.
reading emails as they come in requires 10 secs of clicking on an attachment and scrolling through and then responding "will do." that is the minimum expectation. it's not striver behavior at all. you read emails as they come in when you're sitting at your desk and you check your blackberry every 10 min or so when you're not at your desk during the work week about every 20-30 min on wknds, even if you have nothing going on. i can say firsthand that partners/other associates will be anywhere from annoyed to pissed at you if you don't respond within 5-60 min to an email btwn hours of 9am-11pm 7 days/wk with at least a "will do" as acknowledgment, even to something non-urgent.
the average incoming big market biglaw 1st year understands these expectations and acts accordingly. i cannot speak of secondary markets though where the expectations may be different.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15802928) |
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