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Things all first-year lawyers should know

I remember seeing a thread a few years ago from associates l...
Pontificating point
  08/14/10
Congrats on getting a job.
saffron unhinged base personal credit line
  08/14/10
Thanks, but I was deferred until this fall, so I'm not to op...
Pontificating point
  08/14/10
-Start making contacts ASAP so that you can exit after 2-3 y...
Rough-skinned vibrant travel guidebook
  08/14/10
tips on this?
hilarious silver stage
  08/15/10
This.
ultramarine concupiscible box office depressive
  08/15/10
DESCRIBE
umber slippery boltzmann
  08/15/10
don't forget to read the local rules
Lascivious lilac principal's office idiot
  08/14/10
Thanks
Pontificating point
  08/14/10
found this on google man http://www.lawconsultingblog.com...
umber slippery boltzmann
  08/14/10
Thanks, but I was thinking more gritty, practical advice, li...
Pontificating point
  08/14/10
yeah that shit was pretty useless
umber slippery boltzmann
  08/14/10
Become friends with sy,di("search term") in Westla...
Poppy odious university keepsake machete
  08/15/10
To be fair, lol, Westlaw.
Soul-stirring Smoky Pit Dopamine
  08/15/10
Better than Lexis.
Poppy odious university keepsake machete
  08/15/10
To be fair, Outed as a dumb.
Soul-stirring Smoky Pit Dopamine
  08/15/10
Good luck with that wp() search in Lexis.
insane bawdyhouse
  08/16/10
All the search modifiers /p, etc are useful. Take time and ...
Fluffy Nowag Garrison
  08/15/10
keep women - staff and attys -at arms length.
alcoholic cowardly church crotch
  08/14/10
This is probably extremely credited
Fluffy Nowag Garrison
  08/14/10
you mean dick's length
Aphrodisiac area
  08/15/10
i think this is the exact opposite of what he means.
Supple Chrome Messiness Brunch
  08/15/10
I mean Biglaw is a huge time commitment and I can't imagine ...
Aphrodisiac area
  08/15/10
Covet not the flesh of thy coworkers.
infuriating national
  08/15/10
Way not worth it, dooder
Massive meetinghouse
  08/15/10
Do not fuck or befriend or get in gossip circles. Just ignor...
alcoholic cowardly church crotch
  08/16/10
As much as you can: work for male partners only. Women ...
Yellow electric furnace sanctuary
  08/15/10
Not always. And some male partners are enormous assholes. ...
Nudist Coldplay Fan Skinny Woman
  08/15/10
Your job is not safe right now no matter what your creds.
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
your fucked
Narrow-minded Brass Range
  08/15/10
the rest of your life is going to suck very, very hard
tripping menage rigor
  08/15/10
A couple of things: 1. Billables are the most important t...
stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor
  08/15/10
How to make contacts outside the firm? Through ABA and youn...
turquoise fat ankles
  08/15/10
email clients an introduction
Lascivious lilac principal's office idiot
  08/15/10
?
hilarious silver stage
  08/15/10
just shoot them an email saying "hi, my name is blah bl...
Lascivious lilac principal's office idiot
  08/15/10
wouldnt the atty who is responsible for the client get pisse...
hilarious silver stage
  08/15/10
Any chance the partner(s) in charge of the client at your fi...
turquoise fat ankles
  08/15/10
it's perfectly legit, but you should still use your gmail (o...
Lascivious lilac principal's office idiot
  08/15/10
flame?
Narrow-minded Brass Range
  08/15/10
TOTAL fucking flame. wtf. contact client behind billing atty...
hilarious silver stage
  08/15/10
yeah, five alive! isn't usually flame though. i've been sub...
Narrow-minded Brass Range
  08/15/10
don't forget to attach your vCard to the email
Lascivious lilac principal's office idiot
  08/15/10
A lot of contacts will come to you, mostly trying to sell st...
stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor
  08/15/10
All solid stuff.
Cocky Coiffed Patrolman Whorehouse
  08/15/10
3 is highly highly credited - this cannot be stated enough. ...
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
I don't know who the rainmakers at my firm are. Is this som...
Pontificating point
  08/15/10
All of the above. But once you are there, you will figure i...
stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor
  08/15/10
How do you all feel about having/making friends in biglaw? ...
turquoise fat ankles
  08/15/10
I had a couple of friends in BIGLAW, but these were work fri...
stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor
  08/15/10
...
Cerebral factory reset button
  08/15/10
Unless it's e-file.
Poppy odious university keepsake machete
  08/15/10
...
Cerebral factory reset button
  08/15/10
actually according to my shitlaw boss you can't prove a nega...
tripping menage rigor
  08/15/10
...
Cerebral factory reset button
  08/15/10
I suppose you think that was terribly clever.
tripping menage rigor
  08/15/10
efile is mandatory in every federal district.
Nudist Coldplay Fan Skinny Woman
  08/15/10
...
Cerebral factory reset button
  08/15/10
I have seen mandatory e-file in both federal and state court...
insane bawdyhouse
  08/16/10
Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and unto Go...
infuriating national
  08/15/10
GET THE MONEY UP FRONT
mildly autistic adventurous puppy
  08/15/10
Worry not about money, my son. For the love of money is the ...
infuriating national
  08/15/10
KEEP GOING
Razzle-dazzle parlor voyeur
  08/16/10
your perceived abilities relative to the others who started ...
Glassy magical piazza
  08/15/10
explain
hilarious silver stage
  08/15/10
how good you are at the job -- know that. with all the ince...
Glassy magical piazza
  08/15/10
Good advice, law firm related or otherwise.
Stimulating hairy legs field
  08/15/10
What are some of the narrow abilities that people can stick ...
Pontificating point
  08/15/10
writing appellate briefs managing complex discovery trial ...
Glassy magical piazza
  08/16/10
Keep your mouth shut unless you have something useful to con...
infuriating national
  08/15/10
Never, ever, EVER, leaver your browser open with Weather.com...
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
?
Talking native giraffe
  08/15/10
story?
Pontificating point
  08/15/10
I have no idea actually - saw this thread: http://xoxohth.c...
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
do not do pro bono unless you're really slow. despite pro ...
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/15/10
100% correct
stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor
  08/15/10
Thanks. I'm not really interested in pro bono, so I'd proba...
Pontificating point
  08/15/10
"despite pro bono being counted toward your "billa...
Autistic Nursing Home
  08/15/10
Lol.
Talking native giraffe
  08/15/10
So pro bono isn't counted towards your billables? God nutell...
Autistic Nursing Home
  08/15/10
It technicallyis, but firms look at what portion of your hou...
Talking native giraffe
  08/15/10
some firms count pro-bono hours toward your billable require...
Ocher buck-toothed orchestra pit
  08/15/10
cr. was slow, tried to pick up slack with substantive pro b...
Ocher buck-toothed orchestra pit
  08/15/10
To be fair, probably not straight cause an effect.
Talking native giraffe
  08/15/10
naw, that was it
Ocher buck-toothed orchestra pit
  08/15/10
Probably more effect than cause. If your services were need...
Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma
  08/15/10
yeah "substantive" pro bono work is a nightmare fo...
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/15/10
I think seeking out pro bono is asinine. The cases themselv...
Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma
  08/15/10
Correct. At my firm, we don't do pro bono.
insane bawdyhouse
  08/16/10
yea but it was that or insert thumb in ass. i figured there...
Ocher buck-toothed orchestra pit
  08/16/10
fuck pro bono.
Racy mauve stage striped hyena
  08/17/10
Do not work with black associates, if possible. PURE SHIT...
floppy reading party
  08/15/10
...
Cerebral factory reset button
  08/16/10
Just do good work. That's by far the most important factor ...
Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma
  08/15/10
I provided the definitive word on this subject last year. ...
dark spot
  08/15/10
Is it bad for junior associates to take vacations?
Charismatic center kitty cat
  08/15/10
Not something you should do until the summer following your ...
dark spot
  08/15/10
well that sucks. i guess it will be a long year
Charismatic center kitty cat
  08/15/10
Unless you're very new, no. But you should understand that ...
Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma
  08/15/10
every piece of advice i've ever seen is to plan your trips f...
Charismatic center kitty cat
  08/15/10
No, that's bad. You take a week off when the work allows, p...
dark spot
  08/15/10
So let's say you're engaged to someone who has a typical cor...
Charismatic center kitty cat
  08/15/10
Yeah, no one will care. You will be able to get away with 2...
dark spot
  08/15/10
if biglaw is like this i'll probably just quit or get stealt...
Charismatic center kitty cat
  08/15/10
It's not great. But 8k a month after tax is pretty awesome....
dark spot
  08/15/10
what's the point of having that money if you don't enjoy you...
Charismatic center kitty cat
  08/15/10
You get to have really nice stuff?
dark spot
  08/15/10
congrats
Charismatic center kitty cat
  08/15/10
Is any of this a surprise to you? Sack up and embrace it.
dark spot
  08/15/10
most associates at my firm do not work as much as you sugges...
Charismatic center kitty cat
  08/15/10
Our summer associates have no fucking clue how our copy mach...
dark spot
  08/15/10
At least in litigation, and at least at some firms, it's not...
Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma
  08/15/10
I respectfully disagree, at least in litigation. Planning y...
Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma
  08/15/10
lol at slapping partners in the face. they're paid $1M per ...
Charismatic center kitty cat
  08/15/10
They're getting paid because clients trust them. Neither th...
Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma
  08/15/10
This is the stupidest piece of garbage I've ever read.
glittery abode mad-dog skullcap
  08/16/10
not at all. i took 2 long vacations as a first year (10-14 ...
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/15/10
Most associates do not have "good reputations" and...
dark spot
  08/15/10
How on earth can you take 4 full weeks off plus a "bunc...
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
Oh, that's very, very easy in litigation.
Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma
  08/15/10
a couple of trials that racks up 300+ months and also some h...
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/15/10
I'd fucking shoot myself before working 300+ hour months. ...
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
it's called trial. you have no choice. you don't need to...
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/15/10
sounds terrible. I can hardly focus after a normal day ...
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
"There isn't much in the way of brainless transactional...
dark spot
  08/15/10
Absolutely not. . .drafting and revising contracts and other...
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
you've never been on a deal closing when you had to work 100...
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/15/10
I've been on lots and lots of closings - they take about a ...
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
are you not in a major market? my corporate friends typic...
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/15/10
Closings tend to get pushed, not pulled. Usually everyone's...
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
protip: her 300 hour months were actually 190-220 hour month...
marvelous background story hospital
  08/15/10
Well I'm not willing to get myself disbarred.
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
you might get disbarred if you worked 200 hrs and billed 2,0...
Bisexual indian lodge people who are hurt
  08/16/10
more like i'm making sure i don't get fired. anyway, i do...
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/16/10
Take a few long weekends. . .to last minute stuff when you a...
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
Some of my own tips: 1. The advice above about finding th...
Painfully Honest Judgmental Crackhouse Friendly Grandma
  08/15/10
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/15/10
Great advice.
dark spot
  08/15/10
Congratulations - you have secured a job that is a living ni...
electric rusted alpha
  08/15/10
only thing i miss about biglaw is the money
Ocher buck-toothed orchestra pit
  08/15/10
"5. Proofread one more time than you'd ordinarily do so...
glittery abode mad-dog skullcap
  08/16/10
"Do expect them to occasionally put in mistakes that we...
insane bawdyhouse
  08/16/10
7 is spot on, but theres no such thing as a roth 401k. lot...
vermilion theatre ratface
  08/16/10
It is 1997? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roth_401%28k%29
heady self-centered mad cow disease
  08/16/10
well i'll be
vermilion theatre ratface
  08/16/10
Look the fucking part. Shirts, slacks, suits should be cust...
dark spot
  08/15/10
...
appetizing mediation
  08/15/10
you just outted self as a pretentious fag
vermilion theatre ratface
  08/16/10
Concede from the beginning: You will work all the time and h...
dark spot
  08/15/10
At any decent firm, an associate would not spend Friday nigh...
Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma
  08/15/10
This career (and the paycheck) comes with an expiration date...
dark spot
  08/15/10
This is a good point. But I would also note that the people...
Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma
  08/15/10
The main rainmaker in my practice group (he brings in 70% of...
turquoise fat ankles
  08/15/10
If you have made it this far despite being somewhat lazy, th...
Galvanic institution
  08/16/10
this is worth noting
Glassy magical piazza
  08/16/10
i don't know anyone who doesn't read attachments immediately...
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/16/10
Lots of people don't read shit that doesn't look urgent.
glittery abode mad-dog skullcap
  08/16/10
If that's your attitude, then I have no idea why you would t...
Galvanic institution
  08/16/10
lol, i am the definition of a lazy associate and being lazy ...
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/16/10
This brings up another less important point, but one that mi...
Galvanic institution
  08/16/10
this
vermilion theatre ratface
  08/16/10
appearance of availibility is extremely important in biglaw....
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/17/10
Assuming you're not pure flame, the worst part of this whole...
Galvanic institution
  08/17/10
i've worked enough time in biglaw to see the gamut of associ...
Obsidian den toilet seat
  08/17/10
got it.
Galvanic institution
  08/17/10
youve obv never spent all day on calls and reading attachmen...
vermilion theatre ratface
  08/16/10
truth. just saw someone take a thrashin cuz he didn't read ...
Boyish bronze kitchen faggot firefighter
  08/16/10
everything in this thread depends on where you work, your gr...
vermilion theatre ratface
  08/16/10
(rowan)
heady self-centered mad cow disease
  08/16/10
Until I figure that out, I'm going to try to err on the side...
Pontificating point
  08/17/10
When you put the shotgun in your mouth, be sure to angle it ...
self-absorbed ticket booth legal warrant
  08/17/10


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: August 14th, 2010 3:11 PM
Author: Pontificating point

I remember seeing a thread a few years ago from associates listing all the things they wished they had known starting out. Anyone remember it?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15787456)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 14th, 2010 3:12 PM
Author: saffron unhinged base personal credit line

Congrats on getting a job.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15787459)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 14th, 2010 10:18 PM
Author: Pontificating point

Thanks, but I was deferred until this fall, so I'm not to optimistic.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15790956)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 14th, 2010 3:13 PM
Author: Rough-skinned vibrant travel guidebook

-Start making contacts ASAP so that you can exit after 2-3 years.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15787460)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 9:25 AM
Author: hilarious silver stage

tips on this?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15792763)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 12:23 PM
Author: ultramarine concupiscible box office depressive

This.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15793309)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 6:35 PM
Author: umber slippery boltzmann

DESCRIBE

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795619)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 14th, 2010 3:13 PM
Author: Lascivious lilac principal's office idiot

don't forget to read the local rules

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15787467)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 14th, 2010 10:19 PM
Author: Pontificating point

Thanks

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15790959)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 14th, 2010 3:18 PM
Author: umber slippery boltzmann

found this on google man

http://www.lawconsultingblog.com/2010/07/articles/career-development/20-things-i-wish-someone-had-told-me-when-i-was-a-first-year-lawyer/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15787496)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 14th, 2010 10:22 PM
Author: Pontificating point

Thanks, but I was thinking more gritty, practical advice, like research skills. It was a good tip to not buy into the myth that young lawyers can't get clients though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15790973)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 14th, 2010 10:31 PM
Author: umber slippery boltzmann

yeah that shit was pretty useless

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15791021)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 12:21 PM
Author: Poppy odious university keepsake machete

Become friends with sy,di("search term") in Westlaw.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15793303)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 2:00 PM
Author: Soul-stirring Smoky Pit Dopamine

To be fair,

lol, Westlaw.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15793796)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:18 PM
Author: Poppy odious university keepsake machete

Better than Lexis.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794273)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:14 PM
Author: Soul-stirring Smoky Pit Dopamine

To be fair,

Outed as a dumb.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794611)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2010 2:33 PM
Author: insane bawdyhouse

Good luck with that wp() search in Lexis.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801542)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 2:10 PM
Author: Fluffy Nowag Garrison

All the search modifiers /p, etc are useful. Take time and learn these. Has saved me a ton of time.

Setup westlaw and lexis to email you your search histories. Helpful for billing and future cases with similar issues.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15793895)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 14th, 2010 3:25 PM
Author: alcoholic cowardly church crotch

keep women - staff and attys -at arms length.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15787541)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 14th, 2010 4:45 PM
Author: Fluffy Nowag Garrison

This is probably extremely credited

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15788082)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 9:26 AM
Author: Aphrodisiac area

you mean dick's length

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15792764)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:22 PM
Author: Supple Chrome Messiness Brunch

i think this is the exact opposite of what he means.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794297)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:24 PM
Author: Aphrodisiac area

I mean Biglaw is a huge time commitment and I can't imagine most new associates having that much time to date. You're probably forced to fuck some fellow associates or paralegals at your firm.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794313)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:20 PM
Author: infuriating national

Covet not the flesh of thy coworkers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794662)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:34 PM
Author: Massive meetinghouse

Way not worth it, dooder

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795226)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2010 2:31 PM
Author: alcoholic cowardly church crotch

Do not fuck or befriend or get in gossip circles. Just ignore them. Just smile and nod when they talk and try to suck you in.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801520)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 9:44 AM
Author: Yellow electric furnace sanctuary

As much as you can: work for male partners only.

Women partners and senior associates have major chips on their shoulders.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15792788)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 10:36 AM
Author: Nudist Coldplay Fan Skinny Woman

Not always. And some male partners are enormous assholes. The better advice would be to cultivate relationships with the ones you get along with well. You'll know within a few hours of working with someone whether you're compatible.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15792875)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 9:44 AM
Author: electric rusted alpha

Your job is not safe right now no matter what your creds.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15792790)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 2:11 PM
Author: Narrow-minded Brass Range

your fucked

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15793901)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 2:13 PM
Author: tripping menage rigor

the rest of your life is going to suck very, very hard

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15793907)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 2:22 PM
Author: stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor

A couple of things:

1. Billables are the most important thing as a junior, keep those up to keep your job.

I found this out the hard way. I was billing a crap load early on mainly because I was volunteering for doc review projects (although I was not litigation). Halfway through my 1st year, I had among the highest billables in my class and my midyear reviews were stellar. The partner who reviewed me commended me for my great work.

Second half of the year, my work dried up, and I couldn't even get on doc review. My billables fell sharply. Only about 4-5 months after my stellar midyear review, that same partner came in and told me that I sucked and stealthed me.

2. Cultivate relationships with the rainmakers.

These partners can keep giving you work. Unfortunately, this was my 2nd biggest mistake. The work I was getting early on was from partners without much say in the firm and not as much work to dole out. When shit got slow, my go-to partners didn't have work for me, while the rainmakers had work to give to their favorites.

3. Make contacts outside the firm starting like NOW.

Network, network, network. People will be willing to talk to you while you have a BIGLAW business card. MAke contacts now. You never know when you will WANT or be FORCED to GTFO.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15793952)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:15 PM
Author: turquoise fat ankles

How to make contacts outside the firm? Through ABA and young lawyer society events?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794259)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:18 PM
Author: Lascivious lilac principal's office idiot

email clients an introduction

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794271)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:25 PM
Author: hilarious silver stage

?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794317)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:28 PM
Author: Lascivious lilac principal's office idiot

just shoot them an email saying "hi, my name is blah blah, i'm an associate working on your case" and give them a little background on yourself

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794332)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:30 PM
Author: hilarious silver stage

wouldnt the atty who is responsible for the client get pissed off / etc ?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794338)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:31 PM
Author: turquoise fat ankles

Any chance the partner(s) in charge of the client at your firm might find out and get suspicious?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794342)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:33 PM
Author: Lascivious lilac principal's office idiot

it's perfectly legit, but you should still use your gmail (or outside) email.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794352)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:54 PM
Author: Narrow-minded Brass Range

flame?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794473)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:55 PM
Author: hilarious silver stage

TOTAL fucking flame. wtf. contact client behind billing atty's back using gmail?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794485)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:56 PM
Author: Narrow-minded Brass Range

yeah, five alive! isn't usually flame though. i've been subtleflamepwned.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794494)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:04 PM
Author: Lascivious lilac principal's office idiot

don't forget to attach your vCard to the email

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794547)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:15 PM
Author: stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor

A lot of contacts will come to you, mostly trying to sell stuff. Give these people your time. Don't think anyone is beneath you or not worth your time. You don't have to buy what they are selling, but always be respectful of everyone you meet, you never know if you'd need their help in the future.

And yea, join your local bar association, attend alumni mixers, and of course, cultivate good relationships with your clients.

Even as a first year, I had several smaller clients that I dealt with and had frequent conversations with

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794626)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:57 PM
Author: Cocky Coiffed Patrolman Whorehouse

All solid stuff.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794502)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:01 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

3 is highly highly credited - this cannot be stated enough.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794525)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:10 PM
Author: Pontificating point

I don't know who the rainmakers at my firm are. Is this something I'll find out easily just talking to people, something that I need to probe into tactfully, or something that I need to do some research into?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795055)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:16 PM
Author: stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor

All of the above. But once you are there, you will figure it out.

I KNEW who the rainmakers were, I just didn't want to work with them cause they were assholes.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795101)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:21 PM
Author: turquoise fat ankles

How do you all feel about having/making friends in biglaw? I was pretty good friends with a few guys up until a few months ago (going to lunch, occasional beers, etc) but mow that their hours are down and mine are steady I've noticed some passive aggressiveness and snide comments, in addition to being left out of some things. It's starting to make the work environment a little awkward/unpleasant.

I'd this just par for te course in biglaw? Am I restricted to finding friends outside of work?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794288)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:16 PM
Author: stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor

I had a couple of friends in BIGLAW, but these were work friends. I've fallen out of touch since being Lathamed

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794630)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:21 PM
Author: Cerebral factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794294)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:29 PM
Author: Poppy odious university keepsake machete

Unless it's e-file.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794337)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:51 PM
Author: Cerebral factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794453)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 3:55 PM
Author: tripping menage rigor

actually according to my shitlaw boss you can't prove a negative, so YOU fail at logic pwn3d

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794480)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:10 PM
Author: Cerebral factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794595)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:15 PM
Author: tripping menage rigor

I suppose you think that was terribly clever.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794628)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:07 PM
Author: Nudist Coldplay Fan Skinny Woman

efile is mandatory in every federal district.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794562)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:11 PM
Author: Cerebral factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794599)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2010 2:36 PM
Author: insane bawdyhouse

I have seen mandatory e-file in both federal and state courts.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801580)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:03 PM
Author: infuriating national

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794539)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:05 PM
Author: mildly autistic adventurous puppy

GET THE MONEY UP FRONT

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794553)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:14 PM
Author: infuriating national

Worry not about money, my son. For the love of money is the root of all evil. Those who covet money have erred from the faith and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794614)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2010 3:44 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle parlor voyeur

KEEP GOING

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15802114)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:12 PM
Author: Glassy magical piazza

your perceived abilities relative to the others who started when you did

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794602)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:19 PM
Author: hilarious silver stage

explain

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794654)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:29 PM
Author: Glassy magical piazza

how good you are at the job -- know that. with all the incentives for self-deception and puffery, people often don't have a candid conversation, if only with themselves, about what they are and aren't good at. people who are pretty good brief writers feign interest in and ability at going to court and "client contact" because that seems to be what well-adjusted, socially adept alphas are good at. if you're the best in the firm, or just among your cohort,even if only at something relatively narrow, you can build a reputation for being indispensable that has the additional advantage of being true. and it's the people with a narrow but deep skill who can, at the right firm, create a 30-hour a week job that pays $250-300k. there's a firm where the partners make ten times that; but it also has at least a dozen of these specialists who probably have the best lives of anyone.

if you're great at the work being a partner at a major firm can be a superb, very satisfying job. and it's not difficult to know if you're that relatively rare person. it's the many, many people who split their time between pretending that's what they are and fretting that the truth will be discovered who define a predominant form of law firm misery. everyone else already knows the truth, and they don't give a fuck about your vaunted "social skills" or the extensive thought that went into your "casual Friday" ensemble.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794720)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:10 PM
Author: Stimulating hairy legs field

Good advice, law firm related or otherwise.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795048)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:12 PM
Author: Pontificating point

What are some of the narrow abilities that people can stick around for?

thanks

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795070)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2010 2:33 PM
Author: Glassy magical piazza

writing appellate briefs

managing complex discovery

trial strategy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801543)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:19 PM
Author: infuriating national

Keep your mouth shut unless you have something useful to contribute. Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise; and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794658)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:20 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

Never, ever, EVER, leaver your browser open with Weather.com bookmarked

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794665)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:05 PM
Author: Talking native giraffe

?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794998)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:07 PM
Author: Pontificating point

story?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795015)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:11 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

I have no idea actually - saw this thread:

http://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1354979&mc=16&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795065)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 4:59 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

do not do pro bono unless you're really slow. despite pro bono being counted toward your "billables," your hours are separated out into pro bono hours and regular billables and a lot of pro bono is a great way to get fired.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794947)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:00 PM
Author: stubborn lake party of the first part fortuitous meteor

100% correct

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15794957)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:08 PM
Author: Pontificating point

Thanks. I'm not really interested in pro bono, so I'd probably only do it if there was nothing else, or if the case was something that I could see myself transitioning into doing (for pay) later.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795028)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:13 PM
Author: Autistic Nursing Home

"despite pro bono being counted toward your "billables," your hours are separated out into pro bono hours and regular billables"

um wut?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795074)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:19 PM
Author: Talking native giraffe

Lol.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795129)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:27 PM
Author: Autistic Nursing Home

So pro bono isn't counted towards your billables? God nutella is a stupid cunt.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795192)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:30 PM
Author: Talking native giraffe

It technicallyis, but firms look at what portion of your hours are pro bono an which are actually billed to clients when making decisions. Her post was exactly right.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795205)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:22 PM
Author: Ocher buck-toothed orchestra pit

some firms count pro-bono hours toward your billable requirements. this is pr and bs, not reality.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795151)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:21 PM
Author: Ocher buck-toothed orchestra pit

cr. was slow, tried to pick up slack with substantive pro bono work that included briefing/arguing in CA2/DC/9 -> stealthed

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795145)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:25 PM
Author: Talking native giraffe

To be fair, probably not straight cause an effect.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795178)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:33 PM
Author: Ocher buck-toothed orchestra pit

naw, that was it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795219)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 6:30 PM
Author: Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma

Probably more effect than cause. If your services were needed, they probably wouldn't have let you do the pro bono and they certainly wouldn't have laid you off.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795595)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:28 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

yeah "substantive" pro bono work is a nightmare for the firm b/c the firm actually has to spend resources/money on doing it rather than a stupid U-visa application or adoption case.

the only exception to that are very high profile cases like prop 8 in california that gets a lot of media attention.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795197)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 6:33 PM
Author: Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma

I think seeking out pro bono is asinine. The cases themselves are usually asinine too. The clients tend to be a combination of asinine and despicable.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795606)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2010 2:34 PM
Author: insane bawdyhouse

Correct.

At my firm, we don't do pro bono.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801559)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2010 5:27 PM
Author: Ocher buck-toothed orchestra pit

yea but it was that or insert thumb in ass. i figured there might be some value in briefing/arguing before a fed COA adverse to local AUSAs and main justice. firm did not share my enthusiasm and stealthed me.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15802932)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 17th, 2010 4:50 PM
Author: Racy mauve stage striped hyena

fuck pro bono.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15811590)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:22 PM
Author: floppy reading party

Do not work with black associates, if possible.

PURE SHIT, niggers' work product is.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795153)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2010 2:59 PM
Author: Cerebral factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801787)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:27 PM
Author: Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma

Just do good work. That's by far the most important factor in success as an associate. In litigation, partners want to win -- from the little discovery motions to liability. They are spread over multiple cases and don't have time to do the bulk of the work necessary to win. Thus, they're dependent on you. If you do good work, nothing else really matters. At many firms, doing good work is enough for partnership.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795186)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:33 PM
Author: dark spot

I provided the definitive word on this subject last year.

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1077491&forum_id=2

The game hasn't changed, only the players. I'll answer supplemental questions in this thread if you have any.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795222)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:37 PM
Author: Charismatic center kitty cat

Is it bad for junior associates to take vacations?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795235)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:41 PM
Author: dark spot

Not something you should do until the summer following your start (if that start is in the Fall). You need to get integrated first, and you are competing for spots.

If you are a deferred associate starting in 2011, God help you. But help yourself by not taking time off until 2012, because the summers will be there stealing your work in May and the new first years may get to actually show up in the Fall. Don't be interchangeable with either of those groups.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795254)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:43 PM
Author: Charismatic center kitty cat

well that sucks. i guess it will be a long year

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795264)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:44 PM
Author: Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma

Unless you're very new, no. But you should understand that everyone will think you're an asshole if you take a vacation during a busy time. Thus, you should be opportunistic about your vacations, and plan them on short notice, when you realize you're in a slow period. In litigation, the obvious time to take a vacation is when a case terminates.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795268)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:47 PM
Author: Charismatic center kitty cat

every piece of advice i've ever seen is to plan your trips far in advance

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795286)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:49 PM
Author: dark spot

No, that's bad. You take a week off when the work allows, period. If you take the third week of a random month off, it'll only lead to stress and inevitable self-inflicted pressure to cancel as you get closer and realize you have a big motion deadline coming up.

Take your take off when the work allows. I have never once "planned" a vacation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795303)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:51 PM
Author: Charismatic center kitty cat

So let's say you're engaged to someone who has a typical corporate job and needs to give quite a bit of notice. SOL?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795314)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:53 PM
Author: dark spot

Yeah, no one will care. You will be able to get away with 2 week vacations in August and stuff like that once you hit about third year, practice area/culture depending.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795325)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:54 PM
Author: Charismatic center kitty cat

if biglaw is like this i'll probably just quit or get stealthed. seems like a terrible life

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795339)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:56 PM
Author: dark spot

It's not great. But 8k a month after tax is pretty awesome.

Many people in our culture have a tough time making the BIGLAW trade-off --- money for personal time -- but enough of us do not that you will be out-competed if you aren't willing to act like you do.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795352)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:57 PM
Author: Charismatic center kitty cat

what's the point of having that money if you don't enjoy your 20s at all

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795361)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 5:58 PM
Author: dark spot

You get to have really nice stuff?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795373)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 6:00 PM
Author: Charismatic center kitty cat

congrats

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795385)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 6:00 PM
Author: dark spot

Is any of this a surprise to you? Sack up and embrace it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795395)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 6:02 PM
Author: Charismatic center kitty cat

most associates at my firm do not work as much as you suggest in this thread

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795414)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 6:07 PM
Author: dark spot

Our summer associates have no fucking clue how our copy machine works, let alone the "work culture."

You don't either. You will live and learn, friend.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795448)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 6:37 PM
Author: Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma

At least in litigation, and at least at some firms, it's not as bad as people make it out to be. Instead of picking a firm based on Vault prestige ranking, maybe people should considering picking a firm based on associate satisfaction.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795633)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2010 6:01 PM
Author: Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma

I respectfully disagree, at least in litigation. Planning your vacation far in advance is like a NFL football player informing his team he plans to take weeks 14 and 15 off. You should feel responsible for your case. From my perspective, it would be outrageous for me to plan a vacation far in advance, when I don't know what the status of my case will be. It would be a slap in the face to the partners I work for. They don't get to take vacations willy nilly.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795397)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:04 PM
Author: Charismatic center kitty cat

lol at slapping partners in the face. they're paid $1M per year to be available all the time

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795424)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:39 PM
Author: Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma

They're getting paid because clients trust them. Neither they nor the partners will trust you if you think you have a right to planned vacations.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795643)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 2:26 PM
Author: glittery abode mad-dog skullcap

This is the stupidest piece of garbage I've ever read.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801474)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 5:48 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

not at all. i took 2 long vacations as a first year (10-14 days each), and also took a bunch of long wknds.

the thing is, if you're good and develop a good reputation, the small stuff doesn't matter.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795291)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 5:54 PM
Author: dark spot

Most associates do not have "good reputations" and make up for it by being available. They rise and fall based on their "availability." We aren't writing advice threads for good juniors, who will recognize their worth and behave accordingly. This is for the average associate.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795338)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 5:59 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

How on earth can you take 4 full weeks off plus a "bunch of long wknds" and still make 2000 hours?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795381)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:03 PM
Author: Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma

Oh, that's very, very easy in litigation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795418)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:04 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

a couple of trials that racks up 300+ months and also some hours padding (which is encouraged).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795425)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:06 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

I'd fucking shoot myself before working 300+ hour months.

Honestly - I don't think your work can be any good billing this many hours, you'd be exhausted and stressed and it'd be difficult to focus.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795438)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:07 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

it's called trial. you have no choice.

you don't need to "focus" b/c half of it is meaningless BS. we stayed up for 36 hrs straight doing a 1000+ exhibit list. it's brainless.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795447)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:15 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

sounds terrible.

I can hardly focus after a normal day in the office - a 12 hour day and I'm cooked.

Working all night? I'd be pretty well useless. . .

There isn't much in the way of brainless transactional work.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795504)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:17 PM
Author: dark spot

"There isn't much in the way of brainless transactional work.

"

Was that a joke?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795525)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:24 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

Absolutely not. . .drafting and revising contracts and other legal documents (about 95% of what I do on a day-to-day basis) takes thought and care. You can't do this shit well when you are tired.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795556)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:25 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

you've never been on a deal closing when you had to work 100 hour weeks and half the time you're shuffling signature pages?

that seems pretty common among my corporate friends.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795566)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:27 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

I've been on lots and lots of closings - they take about a day. You spend anywhere from 2 weeks to 4 months getting to that one day of checking sig pages.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795568)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:28 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

are you not in a major market?

my corporate friends typically have a very bad week (or a few bad weeks) when a deal is closing (i.e. waking up at 4am to take calls in some far off country, sleeping 4-5 hours/night, if at all).

as for the 4 months thing, lots of clients seem to want to close at the drop of a hat and doesn't seem that organized in terms of timing so there are a lot of fire drills.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795582)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:38 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

Closings tend to get pushed, not pulled. Usually everyone's too optimistic about when it can get closed and schedules a date that gets moved - everyone panics around it, but it usually works out ok.

Leading up to close can be very hectic yes and involve late nights, yes. But again, 90-95% is anything but brainless work. So while there are times when the hours can get long - I personally don't function well if it's too much of this. 300 hour months seem absolutely abhorrent to me and there is simply NO WAY I could do efficient, timely, accurate contract drafting working this many hours.

Maybe I'm just not cut out for it. . whatever, I really don't believe that anyone could do much better than I short of using stimulants.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795641)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:50 PM
Author: marvelous background story hospital

protip: her 300 hour months were actually 190-220 hour months with a shit ton of padding.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795722)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 8:17 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

Well I'm not willing to get myself disbarred.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15796419)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 2:29 PM
Author: Bisexual indian lodge people who are hurt

you might get disbarred if you worked 200 hrs and billed 2,000. she's clearly in the accepted scam zone.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801510)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 2:40 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

more like i'm making sure i don't get fired.

anyway, i don't know what sort of "substantive" corporate work you're doing, but 95% of what my friends are keeping track of multiple versions of things, running deltaview, entering edits/grammar/punctuation for docs nobody's going to read anyway.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801617)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:02 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

Take a few long weekends. . .to last minute stuff when you aren't busy - you can usually get away with sending an email around on a Thursday saying you'll be away from the office, but available by phone or email if needed - no one will even notice if you're meeting other expectations.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795405)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 5:45 PM
Author: Painfully Honest Judgmental Crackhouse Friendly Grandma

Some of my own tips:

1. The advice above about finding the rainmakers is good. A corollary to it: make sure that your client's in-house counsel knows you, can identify you by name, and likes you. You need to be a valuable asset to them. They're the ones paying the firm money; you want them comfortable with you and even asking for you in the future.

2. Document review is extremely important. If you're in the weeds understanding the facts, you'll be go-to person on the nitty-gritty facts that can make or break your case when things get heavy. I knew fairly senior partners who went out of their way to spend at least some time doing document review because that's the only way to get a handle on the case. If you're the master of the facts on your team, you will quickly become indispensable.

3. Get a good airline card with good reward miles depending on your firm's travel preferences.

4. Hours matter--and not just because that tends to make-or-break you for reviews, but because it's experience. The difference between a first-year who billed 2000 hours and a first-year who billed 2500 hours is that the latter has 25% more experience, even though they're the same class level.

5. Proofread one more time than you'd ordinarily do so.

6. Midlevels will blame you for their mistakes. So make no mistakes, or anticipate this and decide what's appropriate to do. This is one of the hardest areas to navigate, and I don't have much more advice than to be aware.

7. Better to respond to an e-mail in 30 minutes with some thought put into it than in 3 minutes suggesting you rushed a response or weren't busy and just had the time to respond some trivial answer.

8. Decide your financial plan and budget, today. You'll have extra money--are you going to invest it in your Roth 401(k), pay down your debt as quickly as possible, or create a safety net in a secondary banking account?

9. Don't get sick. This means exercising daily, eating well, and taking vitamins. The last thing you want is anything to knock you out of commission for a few days.

10. Have an exit plan. As in, if, 12 months from today, you were going to be at a different job, either voluntarily or involuntarily, what would you do? This involves keeping your resume up-to-date, keeping recommenders apprised of your current situation and (possibly) future interests, networking, and figuring out the best application seasons for other jobs as well as the most likely times you could lose yours (generally after reviews) or voluntarily end yours (generally the month after you receive your year-end bonus).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795276)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 5:47 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat
Subject:

lol at 4. that's about 500 more hours of meaningless doc review for a depo prep.

i got way more substantive experience as 1st year billing 2100 than people billing 2700 hours on a giant case stuck in discovery.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795288)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 5:50 PM
Author: dark spot

Great advice.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795308)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 5:52 PM
Author: electric rusted alpha

Congratulations - you have secured a job that is a living nightmare.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795320)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 5:54 PM
Author: Ocher buck-toothed orchestra pit

only thing i miss about biglaw is the money

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795332)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 2:29 PM
Author: glittery abode mad-dog skullcap

"5. Proofread one more time than you'd ordinarily do so.

6. Midlevels will blame you for their mistakes. So make no mistakes, or anticipate this and decide what's appropriate to do. This is one of the hardest areas to navigate, and I don't have much more advice than to be aware. "

Very good advice, and directly correllated - do NOT expect people higher up the chain to catch all your mistakes, even though that's their job. Do expect them to occasionally put in mistakes that weren't there.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801508)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 2:38 PM
Author: insane bawdyhouse

"Do expect them to occasionally put in mistakes that weren't there."

I always keep a copy of the pre-changes document handy so I can do a comparison in Word.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801598)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 9:34 PM
Author: vermilion theatre ratface

7 is spot on, but theres no such thing as a roth 401k. lots of litigators in this thread!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15805136)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 9:36 PM
Author: heady self-centered mad cow disease

It is 1997?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roth_401%28k%29

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15805153)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 9:55 PM
Author: vermilion theatre ratface

well i'll be



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15805357)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:00 PM
Author: dark spot

Look the fucking part. Shirts, slacks, suits should be custom-tailored (but not monogrammed, which is not for junior assocaites or even most partners.)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795389)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:22 PM
Author: appetizing mediation



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795550)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 9:35 PM
Author: vermilion theatre ratface

you just outted self as a pretentious fag

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15805142)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:10 PM
Author: dark spot

Concede from the beginning: You will work all the time and have very little of a life outside of work.

By making this concession, you will keep yourself from getting frustrated when you end up spending your Friday nights cite checking. It should be a pleasant surprise when you make it out.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795470)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:45 PM
Author: Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma

At any decent firm, an associate would not spend Friday night cite checking. Cite checking is paralegal work. It's the kind of shit work that notoriously miserable firms with high PPP give to associates. (Whether it need be done at all is questionable.) You should avoid such firms.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795686)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:29 PM
Author: dark spot

This career (and the paycheck) comes with an expiration date. Every year, the number of high paying positions for people with your qualifications SHRINKS (they don't tell you this) because the greatest need for bodies is for juniors to run around all night doing stupid shit. You may very well end up a counseled out 6th year with no options if you lose sight of this.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795588)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 6:42 PM
Author: Canary Exhilarant Dog Poop Dilemma

This is a good point. But I would also note that the people who really want to stick around are more likely to be the people who the firm wants to stick around. If you don't enjoy what you're doing (which is the case for a lot of people in this thread, including the laid off people), it's unlikely that you'll be a good attorney. The most successful people in BIGLAW have positive attitudes about it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15795666)



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Date: August 15th, 2010 8:07 PM
Author: turquoise fat ankles

The main rainmaker in my practice group (he brings in 70% of the business) is a screamer who everyone is afraid of. However, he's a brilliant litigator and if he likes you, you're set. Some of the other juniors and midlevels actively avoid working for him, but they won't hit their billable targets.

I haven't worked for him yet, but am working for a nicer service partner where I just won't hit my targets at this rate. Should I try to get some work from the silverback? Thanks.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15796344)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 2:18 PM
Author: Galvanic institution

If you have made it this far despite being somewhat lazy, the music is about to stop. If you weren't valedictorian, and instead were the person who could do the math in their head of exactly how many points you needed on the last test of the semester to turn a B into an A, you are at a much bigger disadvantage than you were in school. The key thing is that there's a bunch of stuff that seems like brown-nosing or striving to you, but actually serves as playing defense now. One short illustration: you get an email with an attachment from a supervisor with no immediate action required, and then don't read it for two days. Something comes up where that previously unimportant email and attachment are now at the center of your supervisor's attention. He calls you and asks about it. If you haven't at least opened the thing and glanced at it for five minutes you're going to look unprepared and lazy. Even if you can just mumble something that's barely comprehensible "oh, right, this was the thing where they had all those comments about our indemnification provision" that's 100000% better than "oh, yeah, I didn't have a chance to look at that." Even if everything else you do is perfect--work is good, on time, client's happy--the supervisor is still left with that initial bad impression of you blowing something off.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801405)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 2:34 PM
Author: Glassy magical piazza

this is worth noting

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801561)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 2:37 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

i don't know anyone who doesn't read attachments immediately as they come in. that's not merely lazy, that's way below minimum expectations.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801586)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 2:40 PM
Author: glittery abode mad-dog skullcap

Lots of people don't read shit that doesn't look urgent.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15801616)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 4:02 PM
Author: Galvanic institution

If that's your attitude, then I have no idea why you would think my post has any application to you. Any non-alien/non-flamer understands that not all emails will get read right away by even the most uptight striver-gunner junior associate. My point is to encourage lazy people to err on the side of reading things and doing work when they think they might be able to get by without doing it. As a lazy person, it's very easy to come up with a reasonable excuse as to why you aren't supposed to read an email, like "the billing partner/client will see my time entry for this and think we're running up the bill." And so, as a lazy person, you can even convince yourself that you're doing the right thing for your firm and your client by not worrying about it until you are asked to do so (and if you do end up in a spot where you're caught with your pants down, make sure to raise this point directly to your supervisor so that you at least look like you thought about the issue). After all, being a lazy person, you're very good at working quick, under pressure, up to and past deadlines. So it barely registers to you that it's a mistake even when your supervisor asks later b/c you thought you did what they would've wanted, and, in reality, that's probably the case if the fire drill doesn't happen a couple days later (i.e. if it happened a week later, they wouldn't expect you to have the email fresh in your head).

The point of the story is not that it's objectively a mistake to not read an email as soon as it comes in; it's to show how perceptions can play a huge part in your fate at a firm. For people who enjoyed being perceived in school as "as smart as the gunners without having to work as hard" there is additional cost beyond any deficit in work product. Sometimes lazy people think that they're walking into Biglaw with a big advantage b/c their work style allows for more chaos and stress, and so they will have an easier time dealing with the hard parts of the job. And if a law firm was as charitable and forgiving a working environment as a prestigious undergrad university, this would probably prove true. The reason why that's not the case is that your chaotic style will get revealed before you have chance to show your ability to deal with pressure. Your typos will be expected b/c people will already have certain judgments in their heads based on the work persona you project. In effect you get dinged twice for being a lazy: once for being "laid back," and once for your typos. And so you'll get stuck with shitty work that you'll fuck up and as a result you'll never progress.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15802259)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 5:27 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

lol, i am the definition of a lazy associate and being lazy means spending 5 hours on something when others would spend 10 hrs perfecting it. the email stuff is baseline stuff that people who go into biglaw should know. it's like when some partner wanted a quinn emmanuel first year to fax a non-urgent doc at 7pm and he didn't get it until the morning. that's not really being lazy, that's saying you're utterly clueless about what this job entails and one such move means you're totlaly fucked.

reading emails as they come in requires 10 secs of clicking on an attachment and scrolling through and then responding "will do." that is the minimum expectation. it's not striver behavior at all. you read emails as they come in when you're sitting at your desk and you check your blackberry every 10 min or so when you're not at your desk during the work week about every 20-30 min on wknds, even if you have nothing going on. i can say firsthand that partners/other associates will be anywhere from annoyed to pissed at you if you don't respond within 5-60 min to an email btwn hours of 9am-11pm 7 days/wk with at least a "will do" as acknowledgment, even to something non-urgent.

the average incoming big market biglaw 1st year understands these expectations and acts accordingly. i cannot speak of secondary markets though where the expectations may be different.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15802928)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 6:36 PM
Author: Galvanic institution

This brings up another less important point, but one that might help a stray rising first year headed to DLA Piper: actual lazy people, don't get fooled into thinking that everything will be fine working for some supervisor when they bullshit you with a story about how they're "lazy" b/c they finished their work five hours ahead of schedule. In reality, this person thinks that you have to check your email every 20 minutes whenever you're awake, and if you don't do that you are a bad employee. Avoid working for this person at all costs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15803585)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 9:40 PM
Author: vermilion theatre ratface

this

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15805197)



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Date: August 17th, 2010 4:10 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

appearance of availibility is extremely important in biglaw. people don't like to see their emails disappearing into a black hole. that is not possible if you don't timely look at emails and people suspect you're not monitoring what's going on as stuff comes in. and when i finish at hour 5, i sit on it for another 5 hours before it's due but i go to the gym or the bar and i monitor my emails. it's preferable to actually spending another 5 hours perfecting my work.

i've mastered the game and that includes 2-3 hours gym/lunch breaks in the middle of the day. none of that would be possible if people suspect you're not monitoring and reading your emails.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15811286)



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Date: August 17th, 2010 6:39 PM
Author: Galvanic institution

Assuming you're not pure flame, the worst part of this whole exchange is that you self-outed as one of those annoying putzes that answers every single email she gets from anyone with a "got it" or "will do." Either you work with super-paranoid, micro-managing supervisors that apparently make you paper every little shit task that you do and must be waiting with baited breath for you to fuck something up, or else everyone you work with hates you for polluting their inboxes with your aspieness.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15812339)



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Date: August 17th, 2010 6:56 PM
Author: Obsidian den toilet seat

i've worked enough time in biglaw to see the gamut of associate behavior that runs from insanely gunner-ishness (staying up all night to double cite-check a 100-page brief not even due the next day) to extreme avoidance of work (when they received a call on their cell, they faked bad reception and hung up on the partner). being diligent in checking emails, reviewing them as they come in and responding with a quick "will do" for non-urgent projects is uncontroversial and expected way to acknowledge receipt and show that you're on top of it.

some of the partners i work for are more micro managing than others, but they all expect this. i'm also "in" with enough partners who talk to me very frankly about how perceptions of associate availability and reliability is very important. if the partners hate me for it, they certainly hid it well in my stellar reviews, which, of course, is the only thing that counts when it comes to getting fired.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15812469)



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Date: August 17th, 2010 7:02 PM
Author: Galvanic institution

got it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15812512)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 9:38 PM
Author: vermilion theatre ratface

youve obv never spent all day on calls and reading attachments for other matters

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15805174)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 3:41 PM
Author: Boyish bronze kitchen faggot firefighter

truth. just saw someone take a thrashin cuz he didn't read something he thought could wait a few days

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15802088)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 9:41 PM
Author: vermilion theatre ratface

everything in this thread depends on where you work, your group, and the people you work with/for

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15805202)



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Date: August 16th, 2010 9:42 PM
Author: heady self-centered mad cow disease

(rowan)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15805217)



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Date: August 17th, 2010 3:07 PM
Author: Pontificating point

Until I figure that out, I'm going to try to err on the side of caution. If this advice can get help me survive an extra six months, it will be worth it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15810965)



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Date: August 17th, 2010 7:36 PM
Author: self-absorbed ticket booth legal warrant

When you put the shotgun in your mouth, be sure to angle it toward the back of your head. Too far forward and the escaping gasses can push the head back just far enough so that the shot takes your face off but leaves your brain intact.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1395680&forum_id=2#15812796)