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PSA: Choosing to become a BIGLAW partner means you are miserable
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Date: August 24th, 2010 7:00 PM Author: Swashbuckling aquamarine sneaky criminal Because if you had a life and liked to do other shit outside of work and had a big enough client base to be considered for partner at a big law firm you would start your own firm and have alot more free time instead of becoming partner at a BIGLAW firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870328) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 7:01 PM Author: Wonderful internet-worthy mad cow disease trust fund deep (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870342) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 7:02 PM Author: Swashbuckling aquamarine sneaky criminal ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870348) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 7:03 PM Author: buff ape parlour i didn't read this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870366) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 7:03 PM Author: Poppy bonkers private investor I can't think of a worse job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870370) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 7:27 PM Author: Swashbuckling aquamarine sneaky criminal there really can't be. no life whatsoever, constant stress, constant backstabbing among partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870580) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 7:28 PM Author: Motley overrated really tough guy LOL, the hard-on XO has for going solo is hilarious. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870587) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:10 PM Author: Swashbuckling aquamarine sneaky criminal if you are able to be biglaw partner it means you have a substantial book of clients, which means you should be able to successfully go solo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870871) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:15 PM Author: Motley overrated really tough guy Not really. Going solo is as much about managing a law firm as anything else. Many partners are great at their specific area (cap markets, project finance, etc.) but are terrible managers and would fuck it all up and end up going out of business. Plus, corp counsel often will refuse to hire small firms not affiliated with large firms because this allows them to CYA better ("well, yeah, this all got fucked up but I hired one of the best firms out there so it wasn't my fault!"). Long story short, being a biglaw partner doesn't at all mean you can be a successful solo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870904) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:18 PM Author: Swashbuckling aquamarine sneaky criminal Seems like as a parnter you would have to be a good manager because you are always managing associates that you assign work to. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870936) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:19 PM Author: Motley overrated really tough guy Absolutely not. First - you can be a pretty bad manager and associates will kill themselves to do good work anyway because they don't want to get canned from biglaw. Second - you don't need to manage most firm related administration like payroll, health insurance, hiring and firing (beyond what you volunteer for and maybe filling out an eval), etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870953) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:23 PM Author: Swashbuckling aquamarine sneaky criminal Obviously if you can't figure out the business side of running a firm (payroll, dealing with employees, etc.) you won't succeed solo. But, assuming you can figure the managerial aspect of running a business, why would you waste your life away at a big firm? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870988) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:34 PM Author: Crawly Bateful Space Cuckold Do you not get that different people have different skill sets and interests? I am probably in the top 0.01% or whatever of human beings on this planet at drafting patents and counseling companies on IP strategy. I also enjoy doing it. I would probably be in the bottom quartile of people in both skill and interest in running a small business. If I built up a big enough book to be partner at a large law firm, it would be idiotic for me to become a solo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871085) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:38 PM Author: Swashbuckling aquamarine sneaky criminal If you "built up a big enough book to be partner at a large law firm" you have effectively conquered the bigges part of running a small business. You would probably be a better small business owner than you think. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871124) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:46 PM Author: Motley overrated really tough guy No. Just no. I'm experiencing this right now at the company I work for. Someone who was good at her job and good at getting clients but can't really run a business. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871175) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:50 PM Author: Crawly Bateful Space Cuckold No, they are completely different things. To the extent that I've built a book so far its by focusing all my efforts on providing really good service to clients, and also going out to industry events and giving well researched talks on complicated subjects. This is basically what most of the partners at my firm do. There is no way I (or they) could sustain this level of effort if I had to devote large amounts of my time to administering a business. Its a basic case of comparative advantage. It makes sense for lawyers to work in big firms so that they can spend as much time as possible doing the things they are most skilled at. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871188) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:46 PM Author: Motley overrated really tough guy tcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871167) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:47 PM Author: ocher menage main people This is how I feel. I work in a specialised area and have particular skills that are in demand. I like my work and I don't find the hours or culture particularly onerous.
I could theoretically go out and start as a solo but in my area of specialty (tax) I would be servicing the bottom of the market doing work that wouldn't interest me nearly as much and probably for considerably less remuneration.
If I tired of the biglaw life I would more likely join a boutique or the government than go solo. |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 7:28 PM Author: Appetizing narrow-minded box office haunted graveyard i've never seen a biglaw partner who came into work with a smile. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870594) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:12 PM Author: deranged black woman well i have (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870889) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:15 PM Author: Misunderstood snowy pit scourge upon the earth most partners i've met in screening interviews seem to be douchebags. a minority seem decent (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870911) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:36 PM Author: deep tattoo internal respiration well, there it is (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871103) |
Date: August 24th, 2010 8:17 PM Author: black razzmatazz toaster volcanic crater Anyone that makes more money than me is a miserable human being!!!!!!!
Nice rationalization of failure. |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:20 PM Author: Swashbuckling aquamarine sneaky criminal successful solos usually aren't miserable and make ALOT more money than me. Im just wondering why someone would work the hours biglaw partners do when they could take their business and go solo for maybe a little less pay but way better QOL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870960) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:21 PM Author: black razzmatazz toaster volcanic crater 9-5 for $1.5 million instead of $2 and unlimited job security? Yea that doesn't exist. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870972) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:26 PM Author: Swashbuckling aquamarine sneaky criminal LOL at partners having unlimmited job security. You don't bring in enough business to justify your partnership draw = you're gone. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871024) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:30 PM Author: deep tattoo internal respiration a "little" less pay? point me to these "solos" taking on litigation for disney, cisco, and intel. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871055) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:33 PM Author: ocher menage main people I have a lot of respect for successful solos but it's not a practical choice for many people. Many areas of practice can't effectively be serviced by a solo and many larger clients wouldn't consider moving their business to a solo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871082) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:51 PM Author: Green Brunch Doctorate um, deeh? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871194) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:51 PM Author: crystalline mexican 1 8 0 |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:21 PM Author: Crawly Bateful Space Cuckold I'd love to see an IP litigation or big M&A staffed by a solo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15870975) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:31 PM Author: Swashbuckling aquamarine sneaky criminal it's done all the time, they hire experienced associates who don't want biglaw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871064) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:35 PM Author: Crawly Bateful Space Cuckold No it isn't. You'll find a few ver specialized lit boutiques and such out there, but they are basically run as mini biglaw offices. No company hires a solo to handle a 5 million dollar litigation or a huge M&A. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871097) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:24 PM Author: deep tattoo internal respiration solos w/ MBA from harvard: the only happy people! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871005) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:30 PM Author: Crawly Bateful Space Cuckold Only if they own a taco truck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871059) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:31 PM Author: ocher menage main people Not every partner becomes a partner on the basis of having a book of business. In many large firms people become partners on the basis of relationships with existing clients of the firm. That doesn't mean the clients will follow you especially if you are going to start your own firm. Many larger clients would never consider shifting their business to a startup solo or small firm no matter how much they might like the individual lawyer involved.
Other people become partners without their own clients because they have specialised skills the firm needs to be able to offer. Whilst you might sneer at such people at service partners there are a lot worse lives then being such a specialist racking in $$$$ and being left alone to work in an area you find interesting.
There certainly are miserable and driven partners but there are many who at least genuinely seem to enjoy their lives. Being paid $1M plus to work 60 hour weeks is better for many people than being paid $150K to work 40-50 hours weeks. You mightn't enjoy their life but that's not the point.
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:32 PM Author: deep tattoo internal respiration several of the dolts posting in this thread would do well to read this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871076) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:37 PM Author: Appetizing narrow-minded box office haunted graveyard y u mad tho? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871115) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:35 PM Author: bronze principal's office This was a really good post right up to the part where you said "mightn't" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871090) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:40 PM Author: ocher menage main people OK, "probably wouldn't". But I think you might be surprised how easy it is to get used to long hours and to actually enjoy the work. Once you get some seniority and the ability to make decisions, avoid the shitty tasks and control your working life it does become more enjoyable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871128) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:43 PM Author: bronze principal's office I'll never know! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871152) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:36 PM Author: Swashbuckling aquamarine sneaky criminal If you're a $1mil+ parnter you have brought in enough business to make at least $500k solo with a few experienced associates. Barring the few clients who will only stay a big law firm and the very few "specialists" in biglaw there seems no reason why any partner with any type of leadership skills would subject themselves to the horrors/politics of biglaw. Especially if you have any resemblance of a social life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871110) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:39 PM Author: crystalline mexican yeah it's shocking more lawyers take the risk-averse option (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871125) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:43 PM Author: ocher menage main people I don't agree with this for the reasons I stated. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871149) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:45 PM Author: copper galvanic step-uncle's house party of the first part yeah, biglaw clients are jonesing for small law doods to take their cases and a giant firm with multiple practice areas and an army of associates offers no inherent advantage to those clients lulz |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:47 PM Author: crystalline mexican agreed. the more i think about this thread the dumber it is (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871177) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:48 PM Author: copper galvanic step-uncle's house party of the first part indeed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871180) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 8:50 PM Author: ocher menage main people The OP doesn't know what he is talking about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1404077&forum_id=2#15871185) |
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Date: August 24th, 2010 9:00 PM Author: nudist self-absorbed orchestra pit OP is correct, in that biglaw partners are generally miserable. What OP doesn't get is that most solos and small/midlaw partners are also stressed out workaholics who put in 60 hour weeks. There's a reason these ABA surveys consistently show that lawyers are unhappy alcoholics. Maybe it's a little worse in biglaw, but the problem is there at every level.
On the other hand, biglaw apologists like 29 and TMF seem to think that miserable and rich is somehow better than miserable and poor. Miserable is just miserable. |