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3.6 from MIT > 4.0 from Chico State?
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Date: May 13th, 2005 3:47 PM Author: Boyish step-uncle's house macaca He doesn't want to bring the discussion over here, so I'm bringing it for him. I assured him that the law board disagreed with him. Don't let me down, guys!
Date: May 13th, 2005 3:11 PM Author: MoreDoughHi
"Not true, Joe. A 3.6 from MIT is always ranked higher than a 4.0 from Chico St. Law adcoms assign a co-efficient based on the UG school that they multiple to your GPA. They add this number to your LSAT score for an index. The difference b/w a 3.8 from UW and from UT may be negligent but an avergae student at Williams will always be regarded higher than a great student from Umass."
http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181066&forum_id=1#2774473
For context (it's interesting, actually), see the rest of the thread. |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 3:48 PM Author: pearl point He makes Corky look like a Rhodes Scholar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2774783) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 3:53 PM Author: mustard domesticated property You're an idiot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2774831) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 3:54 PM Author: pearl point I must have missed the separate 25/75 GPA column for MIT grads in USNews. My bad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2774839) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 3:56 PM Author: wine parlour how many times did your father skullfuck you to make you so stupid? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2774873) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 4:15 PM Author: Massive Orange Fortuitous Meteor Hall 3.6 on a 5 scale? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775051) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:32 PM Author: insane learning disabled whorehouse pisswyrm I would also like to know this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775642) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 4:53 PM Author: bonkers out-of-control native sneaky criminal you are wrong. HTH (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775361) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:06 PM Author: Translucent box office I think it's a good general rule of thumb. But I don't know that a 3.6 from MIT would ALWAYS be seen as better than an engineering 4.0 from say, UT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775453) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:14 PM Author: frozen corner does he mean 3.6/5.0 from MIT is better than a 4.0/4.0 from chico state? that's an absurd statement. plenty of chico st 4.0's get into top law schools, and I doubt many MIT 3.6's get in.
the reason top undergrads are overrepresented at the top law schools is because *surprise* top UG students are much better standardized test takers, better at winning prestigious awards, better at getting good grades, etc. |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:20 PM Author: Honey-headed resort UCLA Law School admitted to having a coefficient that ranks schools. Swarthmore has a tough grading scale, so they give extra points to a Swarthmore grad over say Chico State, and they added it for school prestige too.
Look at How To Get Into Top Law Schools. Rappaport admits it. |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:21 PM Author: Translucent box office Many of the school officials quoted in the book say they control for rigor/grade inflation at the UG. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775550) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:34 PM Author: Odious boiling water Ohhh yes, they say it. Professors push for smarter students. USNews encourages them not to care at all. The truth is somewhere in between, trending toward one extreme or the other based on the school's particular degree of rank-whoredom. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775655) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:41 PM Author: Translucent box office Right on the money. I said something to this effect below.. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775715) |
Date: May 13th, 2005 3:56 PM Author: wine parlour the law board won't disagree with him, because he's correct. it is well known that harvard, for example, uses a multiplier system, and that the multiplier is very high for harvard, yale, princeton, and mit (which is why applicants from those schools have a much higher rate of acceptance). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2774860) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 3:56 PM Author: Mewling Big Lay Mexican this is probably true at the highest ranked schools (i.e. I'm sure Harvard would place a 3.6 from MIT higher than a 4.0 from Chico State, not so sure this logic extends lower than the top 3 or 4 schools though) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2774861) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 3:57 PM Author: pearl point This is bullshit. The way that people who attended MIT do better is through a higher LSAT score. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2774880) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 3:58 PM Author: Mewling Big Lay Mexican I doubt it's bullshit... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2774895) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 3:57 PM Author: Bistre Lascivious Business Firm I don't know about multiplers, but the YLS admissions are very disproportionately represented by Harvard and Yale, so this would suggest some sort of weighing system, qualitative if not outright quantitative. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2774885) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 3:59 PM Author: Mewling Big Lay Mexican perpetuating the containment of privilege, power, and control in the hands of the elites. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2774905) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 4:12 PM Author: laughsome light pocket flask spot Yes, because Yale and Harvard are known for being rigorous undegraduate institutions, especially in the liberal arts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775025) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 4:15 PM Author: Bistre Lascivious Business Firm Grade inflation in the liberal arts is certainly not limited to H/Y. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775048) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 4:16 PM Author: laughsome light pocket flask spot Yes, but a Yale history major is about as impressive as shawn bradley circa 99' (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775059) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:36 PM Author: cream knife clown 175 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775676) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 4:10 PM Author: underhanded vigorous jewess He should have gotten better grades. I hope he enjoys his TTT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775010) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 4:14 PM Author: mustard domesticated property First of all, I'm done with LS as of last week. Too late for me to ever attend a ttt. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775040) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 4:56 PM Author: adventurous smoky halford I'm have trouble following this thread. What the fuck is the point of contention? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775375) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:06 PM Author: insane learning disabled whorehouse pisswyrm I have no idea how Law Schools look upon these two scenarios.
However, logically, it would seem that no comparison could be made with a 4.0 from ANYWHERE, unless it was against another 4.0.
After all, an individual with perfect grades has reached a certain level of achievement. That individual's knowledge could span anywhere from just barely reaching this grade threshold to far surpassing it. Perhaps the 4.0 at Chico State would have made 4.0 at MIT - we cannot logically exclude this possibility, as his academic record has no flaws. |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:07 PM Author: Translucent box office Exactly. Unless the UG was an especially putrid TTT or community college. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775465) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:12 PM Author: insane learning disabled whorehouse pisswyrm Even then. If an intellect equivalent to the Valedict of MIT had gone to said putrid TTT, he would have gotten a 4.0 (assuming a 4.0 max). Consequently, how can we assume that the 4.0 in question is only marginally so? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775488) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:15 PM Author: mustard domesticated property You have to assume the guy from the tier 4 school wouldn't have been accepted to MIT. If not, then you'd see HYS accept everyone with 4.0s and decent LSATs over 3.6-3.9s from top 10 schools with identical/similar LSATs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775505) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:18 PM Author: insane learning disabled whorehouse pisswyrm 1) There are not many truly perfect 4.0s out there. I'm not talking about 3.996 GPAs, because they've shown a flaw and cannot be compared to a 4.0.
Even given that, you would not see HYS do such a thing. I did not say the 4.0 was better, I said it cannot be compared. Obviously the student at Chico State is likely not a world-class intellect...and so as a group, you'd take 3.6-3.9s from great UGs over 4.0s from community college.
Nonetheless, when speaking about a single individual, it is impossible to compare his 4.0 to a 3.6 from MIT. |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:23 PM Author: Translucent box office Let's make this a little more interesting. What about a 4.0 from say, UT? It's a Tier 1 school, but not a HYS, Berkley, or Michigan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775564) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:24 PM Author: Bistre Lascivious Business Firm Based on my interactions with these people, the top people at these big state schools tend to be just as bright as the top people at HYPS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775577) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:34 PM Author: Translucent box office I would think so. And the fact that I worked full time and still pwn3ed UT should work to my advantage. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775660) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:37 PM Author: insane learning disabled whorehouse pisswyrm 170+ = HYS acceptance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775686) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:41 PM Author: Translucent box office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775722) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:43 PM Author: insane learning disabled whorehouse pisswyrm Holy shit. You might want to book trips for Cambridge Palo Alto and New Haven right now. Don't worry about the LSAT...163 and you're in at all 3. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775733) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:50 PM Author: Translucent box office Yeah, I'm about to start my LSAT prep. The objective now is to get a very prestigious score and get tons of $$$$ from the T10. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775790) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:29 PM Author: insane learning disabled whorehouse pisswyrm To be fair, I gave the disclaimer right off the top: I know nothing about how LAW SCHOOLS consider these grades. I am only interested in looking at this from a logical/equitable point of view.
I would think a 4.0 from a better school > a 4.0 from a lesser school, as it raises the threshold you had to reach to make the perfect GPA. Given that, it is still possible that the lesser 4.0 is the greater intellect; however, odds are against it.
I cannot really say how law schools would compare this 4.0, because as I mentioned earlier, it's impossible to do with any level of precision. However, I would imagine that a 4.0 from a T1 nontop10 school would be about as perfect as schools could hope for. You've got the GPA (Who at MIT has a 4.0?) but you've also got an extremely solid University standing behind that GPA. Golden. |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:20 PM Author: Translucent box office But at the same time, you can't discount the fact that a 4.0 is a 4.0 for ranking purposes, whether in rocket science at MIT or basketweaving at Chico St. This creates an incentive to accept higher numbered applicants, although I'm not saying that adcomms don't look at UG/major/courses taken.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775540) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:30 PM Author: insane learning disabled whorehouse pisswyrm I think that the only way to assess a 4.0 from a terrible school is the LSAT. After all, a 4.0ChicoState/156 is NOT a greater intellect than the 3.6 from MIT. However, a 4.0/170+ very well may be. In the latter instance, your TTT shouldn't hold you back whatsoever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775627) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:31 PM Author: frozen corner this is correct. getting students with higher numbers is probably the most surefire way to increase in rank. if HYS were turning down tons of 4.0/171's from chico st for 3.6/171 from ivies, they'd have to worry about declining in USNWR rankings. Chicago being sixth and barely above Penn is 100% because their student numbers are too low. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775630) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:34 PM Author: insane learning disabled whorehouse pisswyrm Definitely. Which GPA/UG combo is better to law schools is a highly inaccurate proxy for which signifies greater academic prowess.
Schools are whores. What can I say? |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:40 PM Author: frozen corner I think it's pretty clear from the numbers alone that HYS are protecting their turf along the lines of the USNWR rankings. The main difference between HYS admissions and CCN admissions isnt LSAT, it's GPA. Harvard's 75th LSAT is no more than a percentage point above columbia's. The main difference between the two is the GPA range. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775706) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:48 PM Author: Translucent box office Also, schools give their acceptance data and 1L grades to LSAC, who runs a regression to determine what combination of GPA+LSAT best correlates with good 1L performance. This becomes the index used by some schools, but I think even schools that don't index could use this equation when deciding whether say 3.6&170 is better, worse, or equal to 3.7&165. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775776) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:46 PM Author: fear-inspiring lodge messiness What? This is true. Law school adcoms definitely make adjustments for academic rigor/prestige. It looks really good to have a lot of Ivy undergrads in your 1L class. Whe I was on the WL, I called the dean of admissions and he specifically asked me where I went to school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775754) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:51 PM Author: Translucent box office Did you tell him Samford? I'd also cough while saying it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775808) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 5:52 PM Author: fear-inspiring lodge messiness No...chico state, of course. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2775821) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 6:47 PM Author: Bronze Abode Hey what did you major in at UT? What is the key to pwning UT? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2776192) |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 7:00 PM Author: Translucent box office Government. And what did I do? Get ready for some obvious advice:
1. Go to class as much as possible. I only missed one class all of last semester. It may not always be worth it, but you get a good idea of what the prof will test on by hearing what is emphasized in lecture. Take good notes, if the prof is discussing something you've already noted, take a note of it anyways, just to underscore that it's an important topic.
2. Do all your assignments on time. Start writing papers early. Make an outline for essay assignments, fill it in well, then let the paper write itself.
3. For almost all of my tests, I study by outlining test questions/topics. I make an outline in MS Word using my written notes, distilling the important information. Making the outline is as important as studying it once it's done because it's a learning exercise. You wouldn't get comparable results by just getting a friend's notes.
4. Do all of the assigned reading, unless after your first exam, you realize that the prof tests mostly from lecture (or that he discusses anything important from the reading in lecture).
HTH. Let me know if you have any more specific questions. |
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Date: May 13th, 2005 8:24 PM Author: Bronze Abode Thanks, I appreciate the advice. Im going to be part of the entering freshman class this summer, considering gov,philo,or middle eastern studies as majors, attempting to go to T-14 law school. BTW,is it possible to study in the dorm, or do you have to go to the library in order to get quiet? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=181196&forum_id=2#2777069) |