Should I go to Harvard Law?
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Date: May 9th, 2015 4:34 PM Author: turquoise casino electric furnace
Serious question. I've deposited for this year but getting cold feet about law school period due to panic about job market, debt, hours, etc that I hear complained about all the time here.
grants will be 20-30k/year so tuition is going to be 30-40k/year. Est COA ~150k?
Good investment or shit?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27855281) |
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Date: May 9th, 2015 4:49 PM Author: turquoise casino electric furnace
What are the right reasons you reckon?
Here's where I stand: I've been out of school long enough to see my undergrad friends go through LS (mostly T6 CCN grads) and into biglaw jobs and I'm pretty sure I know that I don't want to do that shit for longer than maybe a few years (hopefully post-clerkship). I also have a good sense of what "studying the law" is all about and I think I'm alright with it.
No interest in making partner or staying in biglaw longer than 2-3 years. Hoping to spend most of my career in academia (lol), PI, or smaller labor law/civil lit practice (also lol)? Hoping to ride the Harvard LRAP train in my later days.
Is that shitty reasoning?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27855372) |
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Date: May 9th, 2015 5:23 PM Author: deranged aphrodisiac private investor library
$250k for taxes
$60k for private school (2 kids)
$15k for camp and after school shit
$12k for car stuff (insurance, repair, gas, etc.)
$72k for a house payments (I live in the bay area)
$25k for college funds
So that is about $435k, and I haven't paid utilities, fed anyone, done anything fun, gone on vacations, bought anything, or saved a dime
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27855632) |
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Date: May 9th, 2015 5:29 PM Author: deranged aphrodisiac private investor library
that is a 2bd/2ba in SF. Our kids share a room.
On private school, every year we reconsider if we should make the move to public...but the publics in SF are shitty, so it is hard to do that to your kids when you can technically afford it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27855673)
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Date: May 10th, 2015 2:57 PM Author: deranged aphrodisiac private investor library
you sound like one of the people who thinks the well off don't pay their fair share...because you grossly underestimate how much they pay.
Let me help you out:
http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27860592)
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Date: May 9th, 2015 5:16 PM Author: fuchsia gay wizard
Banking
Consulting
High-end govt
Join a top non-profit
Politics
Land a decent job at a F500
Start your own business
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27855577) |
Date: May 9th, 2015 4:55 PM Author: azure lettuce
do you think you want to be a lawyer after actually giving this question some serious thought?
if yes, then HLS at $150k is a good investment.
if no, then YLS at $0 would be a bad investment.
most of the responses you'll get ITT will be the shapeless whining of xo's greek chorus of faggots about how they should have just done taco trucks or sold insurance or been a physician's assistant. it's completely useless to you.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27855410) |
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Date: May 9th, 2015 4:57 PM Author: turquoise casino electric furnace
Actually to my surprise most of the responses have been pretty good so far.
Do I want to be a lawyer? Yeah I think so.
Do I want to be a corporate biglaw lawyer in NYC/DC/SF? No.
- I'm hung up on that latter question because that seems to be the primary/dominant outcome of LS.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27855428) |
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Date: May 9th, 2015 5:10 PM Author: azure lettuce
i'm not going to read the responses, but i'm guessing most of them are some variation of either "if you can do X then you can do Y so do Y beacuse i think Y>X" or "law is horrible what you need to do is drop $200k on kellogg because MBA jobs are the land of milk and honey." having some actual relevant experience here, i find this type of thinking useless, but if you are getting good advice ITT, awesome.
knowing what kind of lawyer you DON'T want to be isn't all that helpful to you or people trying to advise you. figure out what kind of lawyer you DO want to be and research how people who ARE that kind of lawyer got there.
xo posters are afflicted with unbearable buyer's remorse about FUCKING EVERYTHING. getting first hand knowledge of what it's like to work in a V10, or V100, or shitlaw environment is obviously helpful, but regard alternate paths anonymous people on the internet chart on your behalf with extreme skepticism, even if they assure you it's "sooo cr"
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27855525) |
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Date: May 9th, 2015 6:23 PM Author: erotic brunch elastic band
To more specifically elaborate on my answer above (which was, "possible, but you better work bitch"):
I'll take the labor example, which I have a little insight into. There are a ton of opportunities through HLS to do labor stuff. There's an active org (LEAP), a leading professor (Sachs), and a variety of fellowships, both HLS and non-HLS specific. If you come in focused on that, or at least develop a credibly "demonstrated commitment" to it during your time in school, it is my belief you have a strong chance of getting some sort of position in union-side labor/employee-side employment, whether it's firm, union, or gov. With this type of thing, like public interest more broadly, connections and commitment are a lot more important than grades from HLS.
If you kind of dither and dabble, decide to do biglaw for "a few years" and then try to get back in, it is also my sense that it is much harder to get back into that track.
Academia seems like a fool's errand from anywhere.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27856077) |
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Date: May 9th, 2015 6:11 PM Author: turquoise casino electric furnace
Excuse me? Playing along with the flame?
That I'm considering law school in the first place should be indicative that I want to be a lawyer. The point at issue (if you actually read my responses) was what kind of lawyer and whether those options (not big/corporate law) are realistic out HYS or financially viable with 150k of debt on LRAP.
How do you want me to phrase it next time? "Daddy I want to be a lawyew when gwow up?"
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27855985) |
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Date: May 9th, 2015 6:20 PM Author: plum unhinged organic girlfriend
"That I'm considering law school in the first place should be indicative that I want to be a lawyer."
haha, i believe you now. no one who has been around here long enough to have any clue would ever say this.
if you are going to acquire substantial debt, i.e. over $100k, by the time you finish law school, then you
absolutely
no exceptions
don't be a dumb bitch and try to argue otherwise
must go the biglaw route if you have that option and you should try to pay down your debt to a manageable level
<$100k
as quickly as you are able to
before you ever consider leaving biglaw.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27856055) |
Date: May 9th, 2015 5:25 PM Author: exhilarant crusty cumskin school cafeteria
It's akin to asking, "Should I marry this girl?"
If you have to ask, the answer is no. The people that are sure successes are the people who are DRIVEN to be lawyers and don't ask that kind of question. Just like the great marriages didnt begin with doubt.
That is not to say that a big chunk of the doubters (even the majority) may not also succeed, but the risk is not worth it because the stakes are your life.
tl;dr - Only be a lawyer if you HAVE to be a lawyer and you obviously dont
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27855644) |
Date: May 10th, 2015 10:14 AM Author: mildly autistic base depressive
I ended up paying 154k for my YHS degree, lived like an absolute pauper and paid back those loans in a little over three years.
It was a mistake. Should've taken the full ride at DOOK or some other lower T14. Being a slave to debt is unbearable. Having to work big law really sucks.
Now I have the degree, great Biglaw experience. Where are my open doors? Been trying to find an in house job or BigFed job for literally two years without success. Where are these YHS "open doors?"
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27859365) |
Date: May 11th, 2015 5:33 AM Author: Aquamarine Theater Love Of Her Life
If I had to do it again I wouldn't do it. The debt+waste of three years that HLS will give you are too high an opportunity cost if you're a reasonably high achieving person anyway. I don't know what I'd be doing if I hadn't (probably either continued in consulting or working in tech) but I think at this stage, 7 years from when I started at HLS, I'd have more money, a better position (even if lower annual income), and more options, not least because I wouldn't have just finished clawing my way out of a debt hole.
That said, I'm currently a 4th year biglaw associate in London, and I like my job quite a bit, and at least for now I'm gunning for partner. I think what I do is interesting sometimes, and tolerable when it isn't, and the hours can be shit but would have been shit in banking, consulting, tech, whatever else that I did anyway. I look on people who did law in undergrad with no or minimal debt, and who are consequently more senior than me at the same age, and I'm envious, and I realize that I could have had that same deal in a different profession if I'd just kept working instead of going to law school
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27865410) |
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Date: May 11th, 2015 6:37 AM Author: Aquamarine Theater Love Of Her Life
Are you in London as well?
Hard to beat the comp for partnership in other fields, and seems like most people who want it and are pretty good are able to make it, even if it requires a step down in firm quality. For now though, the money's pretty good (US biglaw market + COLA is excellent), and I'm at least a couple years away from being too senior for exit options, so I'm happy to stay at my firm. And if I'm here, I'm much better off gunning for partner (i.e., working hard, trying to get on good deals, doing as much biz dev as possible, etc) rather than coasting.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27865450) |
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Date: May 11th, 2015 1:09 PM Author: Aquamarine Theater Love Of Her Life
I know my chances are slim, but I figure:
- obviously some people make partner every year;
- I'm in a good and growing practice area; and
- whatever else I'm going to do will be served by at least a couple more years of biglaw.
If I loathed the job, it would be different tradeoff and I'd be more put off by slim partnership odds, but I think it's pretty decent, so partnership prospects are kind of like stock options - it's like, hey, if it works out (and obviously I will do what I can to make it work out), I get a great benefit, but even if not, I like my job.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27866958) |
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Date: May 11th, 2015 1:38 PM Author: Aquamarine Theater Love Of Her Life
It does actually seem like if you make it to 7th-8th year at a good firm, and you aren't completely burnt out by that point, that you have a maybe 20% chance to be made up, and if not, it seems like people tend to lateral down and get made up at shittier firms.
Did you go in-house?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27867184)
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Date: May 11th, 2015 1:45 PM Author: glassy razzmatazz set
Way lower than 20%. If you make it to year 9 you might have a 5% chance.
The way I see it play out is they get people to stay by dangling the partnership carrot in front of them for YEARS before finally counselpwning them.
No im still in biglaw lmao
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2875873&forum_id=2#27867236) |
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