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Dems will filibuster Gorsuch
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:33 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/gorsuch-confirmation-hearing-to-focus-today-on-testimony-from-friends-foes/2017/03/23/14d21116-0fc7-11e7-9d5a-a83e627dc120_story.html?utm_term=.419815fb703e
I am convinced this is a horrible tactical decision by the Dems, unless they know there is 60 votes to invoke cloture. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:34 PM Author: Thirsty hot address it's just the Dems trying to force the republicans to be the ones to destroy the filibuster, which is inevitable at this point. since it's going to happen might as well make it happen while you can blame the other side for it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900123) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:51 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine That narrative will not fly for anyone who is not brain dead or a hardcore lib given the Dems' prior actions.
The only thing the Dems will accomplish (assuming there are not 60 votes for cloture) is giving up any leverage they have with respect to Trump's subsequent nomination(s).
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:02 PM Author: Thirsty hot address Sure it will, people are stupid. All they see is "Republicans destroyed the filibuster" and can't process anything past that. Since it's inevitable that it will happen, the Democrats would rather force it now so they don't have to get blamed should it come up again when they're the majority, but that's way beyond the comprehension of your average idiot. The impact on midterms it has will be little if any, but really no reason not to force it now if you're the Dems
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:17 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine "no reason not to force it now if you're the Dems"
This is categorically not true. By forcing the issue now, Dems will give up their very real ability to cause Trump to select someone for his next nomination, should he have one, that is somewhat palatable to the Dems. What they are giving up is substantial, and they are getting very little in return for their sacrifice. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:19 PM Author: Thirsty hot address What "very real ability"? That's the point, there is none. The filibuster will be crushed by someone the next time it's attempted, whether that's now or in a year, and Trump will get through whoever he wants (so long as the establishment approves).
It's not guaranteed that someone will keel over within three years but it is guaranteed that the filibuster is DOA next time it's trotted out. Might as well shift the blame while you still can |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:25 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine "That's the point, there is none. The filibuster will be crushed by someone the next time it's attempted."
This simply isn't true. While both parties are willing to nuke the filibuster for SCOTUS noms, they would prefer to avoid it if possible. This includes nominating individuals who are a little less unpalatable to the opposing party. You implicitly agreed with this point when you said Dems are pursuing this course of action so that it is the GOP, and not the Dems, who are responsible for ending the filibuster for SCOTUS nominations. |
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Date: March 24th, 2017 12:38 PM Author: scarlet mind-boggling hall mother I'm not sure if that's true, though. On a really controversial issue, the Reps might not have the will to changes the rules. But on a pretty non-controversial judicial appointment? That's a great opportunity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32906535) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:29 PM Author: Primrose Aromatic Regret Yes the reason not to force it now is because nothing is gained. The balance of the court remains exactly the same. What happens when a liberal judge dies next year and the one possible stumbling block he could use to his benefit is the existence of the filibuster. Using the nuclear option that close to an election might be thrown in vulnerable GOP senators' faced by a skilled hit machine (((media))) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900704) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:31 PM Author: spruce exciting idea he suggested public bath If you're taking the stance that every single person falls on my team vs. your team, the choice is completely binary, the judge is either my guy, or your guy, then sure, it has no impact.
But doing this now, on someone who's at the very least a reasonable pick, is going to out this whole thing as a charade to those that put any inkling of thought into it all. It's a justice replacing a justice who he's reasonably similar to. This is what should happen.
The destruction of the filibuster here will be seen as a pretty necessary move here, unless we are to just say sure, we're now allowing a party to run out the clock forever.
That then ends the filibuster debate and allows Trump to nominate whoever he wants to fill Weekend at Ruth Bader's spot. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:37 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine "That then ends the filibuster debate and allows Trump to nominate whoever he wants to fill Weekend at Ruth Bader's spot."
Correct, and if the filibuster was still in place when that nomination occurred, Trump and the rest of the GOP would likely place much significance on selecting a nominee who the Dems would at least consider the possibility of not filibustering. Without the threat of the filibuster, the Dems' preferences don't enter the picture. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:46 PM Author: Contagious corn cake republicans need to keep the senate in 2018. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900842) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:47 PM Author: Diverse Police Squad Guarantees Thomas retires before next potus election. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900851) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:05 PM Author: Know-it-all Windowlicker https://files.catbox.moe/8dyd0v.jpg (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901536) |
Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:52 PM Author: effete toilet seat step-uncle's house LOL at Schumer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900334) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:58 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine Surprised this isn't drawing more interest here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900398) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:01 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle indigo hell foreskin We're all staring at ETH (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900438) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:02 PM Author: Primrose Aromatic Regret This is completely retarded. Schumer is fucking this up. Letting gorsuch through doesn't change th balance of the court and keeps the filibuster on the table.
He should be waiting until Ginsburg croaks and Trump puts Ted Cruz up. Then he can fight over the nuclear option and make the GOP appear unreasonable. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:20 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine The only way this makes any sense is if centrist Dem senators plan to vote for cloture, and this is nothing more than grandstanding for the lib base. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900612) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:30 PM Author: Primrose Aromatic Regret Nothing gained though except forcing the GOP to neuter the opposition party's last stand. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900721) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:32 PM Author: Primrose Aromatic Regret Essentially he's making the GOP nuke the last semblance of bipartisan support, fucking his own party and literally gaining nothing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900732) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:41 PM Author: Exhilarant Maniacal Dragon That's what going to happen. Any Dem up in 2018 in a state trump won (there's 9 of them--Donnelly, Heitkamp, Casey, Manchin, Tester, etc.) and Bennet are certain votes for cloture and confirmation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900808) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:47 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine For everyone's sake, I hope this is how it plays out. This is one of those issues where it is truly in everyone's best interest for the Dems and GOP to act in good faith and for the majority party to give some deference to the minority party. A Supreme Court packed with extreme ideologues would be a catastrophe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900844) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:41 PM Author: bearded submissive state It would be the 9th Cir... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901356) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:34 PM Author: Bateful church do libs ever think properly? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900745) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:07 PM Author: Bright stimulating bawdyhouse boistinker LJL good luck with that, Chuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900505) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:32 PM Author: jade field (actual rat-faced man) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900733) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:35 PM Author: Hairraiser Travel Guidebook Indian Lodge Ljl at this thread. Republicans relentlessly filibustered Obama's DISTRICT COURT nominees. Dems would be retarded if they didn't insist on a 60-vote threshold for SCOTUS.
And good on the Republicans if they nuke the filibuster. Fuck that shit. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:37 PM Author: Primrose Aromatic Regret But they don't have the power to do it. They should be saving this card for a time when they can use it to force the GOP to behave "reasonably" AND ACTUALLY FUCKING GAIN SOMETHING. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900782) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:40 PM Author: Thirsty hot address Lol they can't "force" them to do anything. Nobody gives a shit anymore, they'll break the filibuster if they damn well want to. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900804) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:40 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine "Dems would be retarded if they didn't insist on a 60-vote threshold for SCOTUS."
If the Dems could be counted on to vote on SCOTUS nominations in good faith, I agree, but for the reasons outlined by another poaster above, there is is absolutely nothing in Gosuch's history or his judicial phiolosphy that justifies a filibuster. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:44 PM Author: Thirsty hot address Nobody can be counted on to "vote in good faith" anymore, it's just Dems turn to be the faggots. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900825) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:45 PM Author: Hairraiser Travel Guidebook Indian Lodge Ok. And there was absolutely nothing in Merrick Garland's or Obama's DC circuit nominees' history that justified blocking their nominations. What goes around comes around. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900835) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:48 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine Link to the GOP filibustering Garland?
Also, link to a strategy for the Dems that has the faintest possibility of them successfully keeping Gorsuch off SCOTUS? |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:34 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle indigo hell foreskin The DC circuit had no need for additional judges. Libs just wanted to put more on there so that they could pack the court and let obamas BS regulatory regime go unchallenged. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901277) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:43 PM Author: bearded submissive state (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901375) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:08 PM Author: adventurous faggot firefighter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901560) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:10 PM Author: spruce exciting idea he suggested public bath Replacing a conservative justice in a close to even split court with a liberal justice was grounds to make a huge stink. I'd give the dems credit for this if Ginsburg goes next and Trump nominates a conservative candidate. That's the time to cause a stink and make them use the nuclear option. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901579) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:33 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle indigo hell foreskin As we see with the lawless BS libs have been pulling with the EO there was a damn good reason to filibuster them. Libs are zealots who cannot be trusted. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901271) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:53 PM Author: Contagious corn cake I don't see what good can come of it.
Nothing will stop Gorsuch from getting on SCOTUS.
if they force the GOP to nuke the filibuster, the Dems look like bigger assholes, but so what.
Maybe RBG dies, maybe not. But without the filibuster, Thomas can retire safely and maybe even Kennedy can be convinced to retire. Cruz and Kobach for SCOTUS and there isn't shit the Democrats can do about it then.
Unless they win the Senate in 2018. Which I suppose is possible, but look at the map.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_2018
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 6:59 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine Yeah, these tactical considerations seem glaringly obvious to me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32900962) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:06 PM Author: Wonderful trailer park I'm REALLY confused as to why filibuster now (or later) even matters:
a) Trump and GOP can still force through whoever they want when RBG dies. How does the "threat" of using the Nuke Option force the GOP to select a "reasonable" choice? As long as they have the majority, they can always tell Dems ot go fuck themselves.
b) How will the DEMS look like assholes when the GOP REFUSED to set a hearing for Obama's nominee for an entire year? I think we've long past reached the point of nobody GAF about the "optics" of a situation.
Unless one side can actually and literally FORCE the otherside to do something, then nobody is going to play ball. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:21 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine The following syllogism, which has more or less been true up to this point, falls apart if the second premise can no longer be assumed:
1. The GOP wants to avoid nuking the filibuster for SCOTUS nominees. I don't believe anyone has claimed otherwise.
2. Libs will not filibuster a SCOTUS nominee whose judicial philosophy they disagree with but is not radically conservative.
3. Therefore, the GOP will limit future SCOTUS nominees to candidates who are not radically conservative. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:28 PM Author: Primrose Aromatic Regret Like Souter? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901211) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:30 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine Yes. Souter is the type of GOP nominee Libs will never see again if they follow through with this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901227) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:32 PM Author: Primrose Aromatic Regret And that will be Schumer's legacy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901257) |
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Date: March 24th, 2017 1:33 PM Author: floppy cyan school cafeteria kitty cat Schumer's legacy will be a Supreme Court that includes Ted Cruz and Bill Pryor 3 years from now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32907016) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:33 PM Author: Contagious corn cake Also no one WANTS to nuke the filibuster because no one knows if they will ever get more than one pick.
Which is why republicans would not use it to force through a super right wing RBG replacement in 6 years.
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:35 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine I don't think we can say "republicans would not use it to force through a super right wing RBG replacement in 6 years" with absolute certainty, but there is a strong possibility it is correct. And Libs are forefeiting that possibility in exchange for very little immediate gain. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901286) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:38 PM Author: Contagious corn cake since Gorsuch will be confirmed, the only gain is:
1) hope more senate seats will be protected by standing up to the GOP in this petty battle, versus lost for being obstructionist.
2) hope they win the senate despite an ugly 2018 map.
3) hope trump is not reelected. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:38 PM Author: Primrose Aromatic Regret For NO immediate gain. The panicking liberals will not remember this in 2018. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901324) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:37 PM Author: Primrose Aromatic Regret But they would for Gorsuch to replace Scalia.
Which is why Schumer would be an idiot to play this card. It accomplishes literally nothing. Either way a conservative is taking the seat of a conservative and the balance remains the same. He can only hurt the party by playing this card for no other reason than to pander to a bunch of butt hurt liberals. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:41 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine At this point, I believe the GOP would nuke the filibuster for any of its SCOTUS nominees for the foreseeable future if it came to that. However, I also think the GOP would have nominated someone other than Gorsuch if the consequences of a filibuster were not a concern. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901351) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:40 PM Author: sooty house-broken forum jew Why should Dems act in good faith by not filibustering when the Republicans didn't act in good faith with Garland? The Democrats have no choice but to filibuster. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901337) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:43 PM Author: Primrose Aromatic Regret Because the republicans were actually able to achieve their goal with Garland. The democrats cannot with Gorsuch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901373) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:44 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine JFC, are you retarded? Absolutely no one ITT expects the Dems to refrain from a filibuster because it would be the "right thing to do." This entire thread is about how it is contrary to the Dems interest to filibuster Gorsuch because they will realize very little benefit from it, while potentially giving up a lot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901380) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:53 PM Author: Know-it-all Windowlicker They can leave the filibuster battle for the next nominee, the prospect of which will act as a moderating force on the GOP, even if only a small one.
There's virtually no value in the "make the GOP kill it now and look like assholes" angle. |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:14 PM Author: spruce exciting idea he suggested public bath So are you just going to keep saying "but...Garland?" and not reading the strategical elements of this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901630) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:23 PM Author: Bossy friendly grandma which is exactly what dems are doing LJL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901718) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:59 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32902079) |
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Date: March 24th, 2017 9:12 AM Author: histrionic sick church building boiling water The flaw here is that Gorsuch IS radically conservative. Beyond Pryor (who will probably be next), he's as right wing as any judge in the country. He just happens to clean up nice and present well (unlike Pryor).
Dems are fucked. The appointment process, like everything else, is political and TV oriented. Bork didn't get confirmed because he looked like a creepy shut in. |
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Date: March 24th, 2017 11:55 AM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine Bork was to the right of Gorsuch by a country mile. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32906227) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 7:38 PM Author: Swashbuckling up-to-no-good school karate http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3561866&mc=3&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901326) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:07 PM Author: Misanthropic hunting ground voyeur Copy paste FAGGOT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901559) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:22 PM Author: Charismatic tanning salon Your argument is SPS...the GOP does not care about goodwill or precedent. They will take what they can right now and still ram through a second nominee if they get one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901707) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 9:06 PM Author: Multi-colored sickened internal respiration dopamine Link to where I argued for one party to pursue a particular course of action in the hopes that it will engender the other party to act in good faith in response? You can't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32902145) |
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Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:23 PM Author: marvelous awkward principal's office rigor Dems should have just let this one go. The real battle is when one of the liberal justices is replaced. And looking at their ages and health, that could be sooner than you think. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32901717) |
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Date: March 24th, 2017 8:24 AM Author: Swashbuckling up-to-no-good school karate agreed, and the general public is going to be much more hostile to using the nuclear option to get a staunch conservative through to replace a liberal judge than they would be to the use of the nuclear option now - but if it is used now, that's it and dems will be fucked if a liberal judge dies while Trump is in office and republicans control the senate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32904724) |
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Date: March 24th, 2017 9:08 AM Author: adventurous faggot firefighter The general public does not give two fucks about the filibuster rule (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32904920) |
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Date: March 24th, 2017 9:12 AM Author: histrionic sick church building boiling water correct, which will be apparent when it disappears in 2 weeks. NYT will run screed after screed, and the no one will care. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32904937) |
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Date: March 24th, 2017 8:30 AM Author: chest-beating rehab immigrant Yeah, Sotomayor could go any day now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562154&forum_id=2#32904742) |