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Email from biglaw firm at 10 pm Friday "you need to be available this weekend
Poast new message in this thread
Date: July 29th, 2017 11:58 AM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich And if this is an issue we will need to talk to the managing partner"
I also was asleep at this time and 30 minutes later I got an email demanding I got confirmation of the email |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 7:24 AM Author: Carmine floppy dragon You didn't say "not flame". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33894677) |
Date: July 29th, 2017 11:59 AM Author: beady-eyed property This isn't even triggering. This is the baseline. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879537) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:01 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich "It shouldn't take so long to respond, I'm not sure why it took so long" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879543) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 1:28 PM Author: violet french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879884) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:01 PM Author: racy international law enforcement agency Ljl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879544) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:05 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich A very noble profession (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879566) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:06 PM Author: Irradiated stage you better get to work then! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879572) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:06 PM Author: Deranged range lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879573) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:07 PM Author: vivacious mood Did he tell you that he worked very hard when he was an associate and missed his kid's birthday parties several times? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879575) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:20 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Twist it was a shrew (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879634) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:21 PM Author: racy international law enforcement agency Are you not allowed to sleep (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879636) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:52 AM Author: Lascivious garrison voyeur Sure, so long as you awaken on command. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33883877) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:24 PM Author: stirring maniacal chapel The "if this is an issue we need to talk to the managing partner" part sounds like flame unless you've tried to get out of weekend availability in the past (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879648) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:33 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Swear on my life it's not flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879672) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:39 PM Author: stirring maniacal chapel Have you had issues with being available on weekends in the past or was that part really out of nowhere? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879693) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:42 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich This was completely out of nowhere. It wasn't part of a deal I was on. No I have not had problems with weekend availability. Once this summer I had a wedding and had to turn down work but I made the firm aware of my unavailability. that also was out of the blue and with a project I had never worked on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879708) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:43 PM Author: razzle-dazzle cumskin Have you worked with her before. What's the deal, man. There's something missing here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879714) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:45 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich No I have not. I was only made aware of this work at 10 pm last night (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879723) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:47 PM Author: odious church building Forward the email to the managing partner saying you feel the implied threat of escalation was inappropriate given your record of reliable availability. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879728) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:49 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Nah man I'm not a rat and I don't want to cause more problems but think it was completely uncalled for to be threatened (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879736) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 1:27 PM Author: effete windowlicker pocket flask Also inform MP of this Partner's bizarre, yet repeated, overtures of sexual harassment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879878) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 1:51 PM Author: odious church building lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879995) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 2:45 PM Author: Lilac alcoholic striped hyena whorehouse hmm seems cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880307) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:58 AM Author: bat shit crazy heaven brethren (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33883883) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 7:33 AM Author: doobsian wonderful abode sneaky criminal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884013) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:20 AM Author: beady-eyed property (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884457) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 8:04 AM Author: Cerebral coldplay fan wrinkle (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33894714) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:19 PM Author: walnut histrionic new version brunch tiNtcr
MP is going to take the partner's side and it will make OP look like a whiny bitch |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 5:02 PM Author: odious church building Eh, he sounds like he's a screwed beta either way, so may as well stir some shit up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33886093) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:31 PM Author: Bespoke offensive university hissy fit Weak flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879664) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:34 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Swear on my life this is not flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879675) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:54 PM Author: concupiscible shrine background story weak flame? this is a pretty typical occurrence in biglaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879750) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 1:55 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Cr but this is the first time I was threatened to be tattle taled on (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880022) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 1:27 PM Author: effete windowlicker pocket flask He just said it wasn't flame! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879881) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:33 PM Author: fuchsia box office toilet seat IME this is never done
What is done is that the junior partner gets mad at u for not responding and then tells the managing partner behind ur back and it shows up on a performance review |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:35 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich The managing partner is pretty chill. Sad thing is I told this person I was home this weekend for a family function (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879678) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:38 PM Author: fuchsia box office toilet seat Actually if this was a chick as per above, the story is 10x more believable (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879689) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:59 AM Author: bat shit crazy heaven brethren This makes sense now LOLOLOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33883884) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:19 PM Author: walnut histrionic new version brunch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885893) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:40 PM Author: Spectacular public bath generalized bond Reply: "No I don't. Come find me!" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879696) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 12:55 PM Author: concupiscible shrine background story (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879751) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 4:28 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880759) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 1:45 PM Author: lavender karate If an associate: Chill, I'll be there.
If a partner you like: I'll be there.
If a partner you don't care about: I'll be there. The threat isn't necessary.
I once got this email at 1am on a Saturday from a partner I hated:
"Where r u? We r a team."
The guy decided to do a drop in after a date with this young girl he was dating to infuriate the wife he was divorcing.
I was in the bathroom at the firm. Was ther for another matter and his issue wasn't even a high priority. Got into a big argument and I stopped getting work from him. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:30 PM Author: burgundy heady business firm alpha lmao at the "where r u" email (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33888328) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 1:51 PM Author: 180 claret macaca I will NEVER go back. 7 yrs of that shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33879998) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 1:54 PM Author: Hairless arousing friendly grandma library What do u do now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880014) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 1:57 PM Author: 180 claret macaca Inhouse at a fund. Basically get paid 300k for 45 hrs a week of minor BS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880039) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:23 PM Author: shivering buck-toothed point he sucks dick under an overpass (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885917) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 2:38 PM Author: massive rebellious theater stage Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880266) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 1:54 PM Author: razzle trailer park Happens in IT consulting all the time too, just way less money. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880021) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 2:47 PM Author: Deep rough-skinned roast beef giraffe What if you just delete it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880316) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 2:48 PM Author: Lilac alcoholic striped hyena whorehouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880321) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 2:52 PM Author: effete windowlicker pocket flask "Just Jump at the last minute" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880340) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:14 PM Author: Violent kink-friendly school cafeteria (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885010) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 2:51 PM Author: nighttime theater I'm calling flame or this isn't the whole story.
I could see it if you have a pattern of ignoring weekend work or there was a background conversation here. But an email like that is not the norm. |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 3:09 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich I swear it's the truth. I'm a defcent associate. Not amazing but I always offer to help if asked. Had zero heads up on the deal or made aware of any of this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880431) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 3:16 PM Author: Big mental disorder The only part that seems like flame is the managing partner bit. Otherwise I've had a couple of experiences like this (and so has most everyone in biglaw). Generally speaking only really shitty partners or seniors will pull stuff like this, but it happens. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880457) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 3:18 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich It's not flame. I have worked plenty of weekends and only turned down weekend work once for a wedding which I made the firm aware of months ahead of time.
I also let the firm know I was going home this weekend for a family thing. |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 3:23 PM Author: Big mental disorder Yea weekend work obviously isn't flame. When I'm busy I probably end up going into the office nearly ever weekend, sometimes all day on both days.
The shit part about your situation is a) it being sprung on you late on a Friday and b) the confirmation email. For whatever reason, really shitty people to work for LOVE to send confirmation emails at nonsensical times. I once woke up at like 8 am on a Saturday to a shit senior associate spamming me with "are you awake?? Confirm you got my 6 am email" type messages. I went to bed the night before thinking I was free all weekend. |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 3:29 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Yea man. I understand that certain parts of the job sre sps. But I really don't like being threatened especially since I've had no history of being difficult and had no prior notice of this deal or workload. It's really shitty to spring work on me like that with no notice on a summer Friday night and hit me with a please respond email 30 minutes later. I also got "we need to talk on Monday" lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880525) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 4:34 PM Author: Glittery Bearded Site if all of this is true, there's just no way i could take it without saying something.
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Date: July 29th, 2017 4:44 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich It's all true and am waiting to say something in person. This person is clearly deranged and not sending anything over email (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880816) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 7:57 PM Author: Big mental disorder The problem is that the type of person who would send emails like this is exactly the type of person who will badmouth you to other people if you don't comply 100%. There is one partner in my office like this who gives almost every associate who works for him a negative review and will talk shit about you behind your back. There is absolutely no way to work for these types of people without coming out looking like shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33881776) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 3:12 PM Author: Trip Address (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880438) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 3:28 PM Author: passionate flickering nibblets puppy I get almost all my work from a partner who rarely calls at nighr or on weekends. I don't think I could take shit like the op (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880521) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 3:34 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Yea brother. Been working until midnight every night the past few weeks and working on weekends. Thought I'd be able to relax this weekend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880552) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 4:46 PM Author: wine area ratface I would call and have a talk with her. Nothing in writing but that implied threat to go to the managing partner, if there was no ongoing history of problems, is completely un acceptable (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880824) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 4:48 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Planning on meeting her face to face on Monday. Will not respond via email even though I was furious (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880836) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 5:15 PM Author: Glittery Bearded Site smart move. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880941) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 4:40 PM Author: transparent clown Respond with a calendar invite to her and the managing partner for Monday morning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880800) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 5:08 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Cr the managing partner would be like lmao who gives a shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880911) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 5:17 PM Author: boyish menage boistinker That is fucking ridiculous. The only explanation (other than that she is a horrible person) that I can think of is maybe she was told that you had already been staffed and briefed and knew to expect this, so thought you were blowing it off when you didn't respond. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880949) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 5:18 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich I was not briefed or staffed prior to the email. Gods honest truth. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880961) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 5:20 PM Author: charismatic national security agency Are you a junior associate or midlevel? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880968) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 5:22 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Junior (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33880973) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 5:57 PM Author: boyish menage boistinker Not saying you were, but sometimes people get misinformed. I've (senior associate) sometimes been told by a partner that X first year is staffed on this deal and is up to speed, then I call him and he is like WTF, no one told me about this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33881158) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 6:00 PM Author: titillating very tactful location You know this already but you work with horrible human beings. I've been in Biglaw for about a decade and never received an email like this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33881174) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 6:01 PM Author: Orange electric skinny woman market Same. But I work with horrible people and get emails like this all the time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33881180) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 6:36 PM Author: concupiscible shrine background story consider yourself blessed then (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33881322) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 8:46 PM Author: Diverse Filthy Mad Cow Disease Persian Ljl at wagecucks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33882064) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 8:48 PM Author: ruddy really tough guy Grow a pair (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33882076) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 9:27 PM Author: Multi-colored black woman volcanic crater cr
if this isn't flame and is truly out of the blue, the only acceptable response is, sorry, I'm tied up this weekend. Happy to discuss Monday. |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 9:48 PM Author: impressive forum You're either somebody who can do that. Or you're not. That's the difference. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33882512) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 7:14 AM Author: bistre plaza Yes it's true that there are some crazy people in biglaw firms, but I've never heard of someone writing an email like that, which makes me believe you are either not telling the whole story, or lack self-awareness.
The fact is, this senior thinks/believes you are a flake, to be the point she needs to threaten you and chase you. Whether fair or not, deserved or not, you have that reputation with her (and maybe others). Have a hard honest think about why she thinks this way. People (incl. her) have probably tried calling your office on evenings and weekends and you weren't available on multiple occasions, leading to an impression that you take off early and shut off.
The fact that you're blowing off talking to her until Monday says a lot about you. A simple phone call to her would resolve the issue and show that you are alert, ready and proactively dealing with the issue. Instead, your passive-aggressive stalling will at BEST elicit nothing more than dishonest feedback on Monday. She's not going to tell you to your face that she thinks you're a dirtbag. For better or worse, you need to change her mind about you, and the only way you can do that is by being proactive and calling her and sounding like an ethusaistic faggot ready to jump and work on her deal. Or you can sit here and bitch.
Some red flags about your story.
#1 - you're a junior. And instead of confronting your problems like a man (i.e., calling her to figure it out), you come and bitch o the forums.
#2 - she emailed you at 10:30pm. That means she was in the office, and you weren't. The fact that she mentioned the managing partner makes me think it wasn't just her in the office. What probably went down is, this lady and managing partner got a last minute call from a client about some random fire drill that they needed to do a conf call on at like 9pm. They looked for you to join, you weren't there, and they were like "wtf why are our juniors leaving before 9pm" They went on the call without you, and then she got instructed to bring you up to speed. Nasty email ensues.
#3 - You said "it's really shitty to spring work on me like that with no notice on a summer Friday night". Nobody gives a fuck about your summer Friday night or lack of notice. Partners get work dumped on them with no notice on Saturday, you're a fucking junior.
Let me guess, you've made similar statements about "summer Fridays" around the firm? Fucking rookie move. You're probably already labeled as the guy who does just what's asked of him, nothing more, which is a terrible reputation to have in a biglaw firm. Never ever ever talk about weekend plans or social life inside the firm. None of these people are your friends. None. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 7:44 AM Author: Hyperactive main people gaming laptop You've got some serious Stockholm Syndrome dude. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884016) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 9:13 AM Author: Cyan tripping ape You don't think the last paragraph's credited? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884079) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:01 AM Author: Irradiated stage not credited at all (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884387) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:56 AM Author: bistre plaza I left biglaw last year but I genuinely hate it when biglaw associates bitch. It's what you signed up for, take it up the ass or quit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884620) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 9:16 AM Author: boyish menage boistinker This is ridiculous. It is not an expectation anywhere that people be in the office at 10:30pm on a Friday (on any day) if they have not received notice in advance. If there's a deal signing tomorrow and you're not around at 10pm, yeah, the nasty email is a bit understandable, but for a new matter that's come out of the blue, it makes no sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884083) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:58 AM Author: bistre plaza You completely missed my point.
The fact that this lady felt the need to call/chase/hound his ass at 10:30pm on a Friday made me INFER that OP was generally checking out earlier than his peers and/or had a reputation of not being hard working.
It's easy for a junior to say "oh give me advance notice" or "call me if you need me." When something urgent comes up, which is 50% of the time in biglaw, you have no chance for advance notice, and zero tolerance for tracking juniors down. You're either at your desk when I need you or you're not.
If "ruining my Friday night in the Summer" comment didn't tell you anything about this junior associate, you've never stepped within the halls of MFH biglaw. You don't have Friday nights as a junior associate, wtf. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:01 PM Author: purple tattoo bbw Is your shtick just telling others that they missed some point you think you made?
This is really, really not difficult at all, and it doens't require inferences and assumptions and nuance.
Your point was that he was supposed to be there at 10pm on a Friday. Which is fucking ridiculous. How that is not obvious to you is beyond me. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:11 PM Author: bistre plaza No, my point is that he has a reputation for being flaky. I cited his not being there on that particular 10pm on a Friday as potential evidence (cause) for such a reptuation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884716) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:55 PM Author: Snowy Exciting Gas Station Fanboi You make me sad for the state of this dumb as fuck profession. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885204) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:57 PM Author: bistre plaza It's bearable as long as you treat biglaw as a means to an end and you stay tired enough that you're numb and the whole biglaw thing becomes some hazy memory. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885213) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:39 PM Author: Snowy Exciting Gas Station Fanboi This isn't wrong for the current state of things. But the culture is created by each and every one of us. I just went in-house, and now that I'm out I'm pissed that I bought into the big law culture ever being acceptable. It's ridiculous and destructive, and it's a choice made by every one of us. It's sad man. My father is boomer big law, and I yellled at him for starting to give his junior shit for not being available this weekend (this is 100% not flame). I was spending time with my dad for the first time in awhile, the junior, very similiarly here, had already cleared the weekend for a family engagement, and wasn't immediately responsive to an email (that my dad neglected to send earlier b/c he was spending time with me, his own bit of family). My dad started to frustratedly type on his phone, I asked what was up. He explained it and I laughed in his face, told him to stop, and told him to tell his juinor to enjoy the time with family because there's only so much of it you get in life. That little fucker better appreciate what I did for him...... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885966) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 9:50 AM Author: sepia son of senegal state Titcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884153) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:07 AM Author: impressive forum CR. Also biglaw is hypertoxic and partners should be dragged out into the streets (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884183) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:15 AM Author: Turquoise contagious yarmulke haunted graveyard (Biglaw partner MAF at his point allocation this year) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884202) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:43 AM Author: wine area ratface lmao @ this - "she's probably called your office on a weekend and you weren't there to answer. BIG MISTAKE" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884294) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:00 PM Author: bistre plaza Any junior associate with half a brain knows their partner is their client. It's the path you chose. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884639) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:33 PM Author: Marvelous pungent personal credit line Get fucked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33887745) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:49 AM Author: Pontificating elite kitchen (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884324) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:56 AM Author: purple tattoo bbw This is some of the most pathetic, beta shit I've ever read, even considering that OP is weak flame.
"#2 - she emailed you at 10:30pm. That means she was in the office, and you weren't."
What's your point? That biglaw associates should not leave the office until literally midnight on friday nights every friday night?
"They looked for you to join, you weren't there, and they were like "wtf why are our juniors leaving before 9pm""
Again, so fucking what? Are you that much of a beta that you never make plans for friday night and never leave the office before 9pm on a friday fucking night? Are you kidding me?
Literally NO ONE at my biglaw firm is there at 9pm on a friday night UNLESS they have advance notice that a deal is coming or there is actually time sensitive work to be done.
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:02 AM Author: Irradiated stage cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884392) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:12 AM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Rofl cr. I wasn't on the project or had any idea about it until late Friday night. Should I just sit on my ass in a miserable office until then? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884430) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:03 PM Author: bistre plaza First, I said OP probably has a shitty reputation at his firm for being a flake. I don't know why that is, but my guess is, he habitually disappears earlier than his peers, or is not at his desk (taking 30 minute dumps 5x a day, who knows).
Also, you must be flame or at some really shitty firm. When I was a junior at my V5 I was doing 2700+ a year for my first few years. You learn very quickly never to make plans on the weekends, because you end up cancelling and pissing your friends off. This has nothing to do with being "alpha" or "beta." It's the reality of busy practice groups.
If no one is at your firm at 9pm on Fridays, I suspect you will soon find yourself out of a job. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:07 PM Author: purple tattoo bbw You really are that pathetic aren't you. Never making weekend plans? Holy shit. I can't even fathom how little self-respect you must have for yourself to put yourself in that position. You're like less than a doormat. That you billed 2700 hrs per year for that little money, and kept your weekends entirely open, then the joke's on you.
I'm a cravath-scale paying firm. I bill 2000-2200.
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:09 PM Author: bistre plaza Congrats? I ended up at a V5 and our whole team was busy. I take it you're not in MFH? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884704) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:11 PM Author: purple tattoo bbw I just can't even fathom how little self-respect you must have for yourself.
Like IRL if we met how beta would you act? |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:14 PM Author: bistre plaza Self-respect has nothing to do with work ethic you fucking faggot.
I live my life based on a set of values that are clearly different than yours. For instance, I chose the military as my first career before law. I'm not much into partying, drinking or drugs. And call me a faggot, but I valued patriotism over college pussy so I signed up.
But if you want to play internet tough guy, go for it. I busted my ass in the army, and I busted my ass in my firm. It's not even about the money at this point, I just don't believe in half-assing anything that I signed up to do on my own accord. Nobody is holding a gun to my head, so I'm either going to rock it or fuck it and move on. Why do you give a shit how I lived my life? |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:18 PM Author: purple tattoo bbw You're a beta bitch with a complex who thinks billing hours for partners makes you alpha. Look in the mirror, that's actually the fucking faggot. You snipe about colleagues behind their back and lose your shit when people make weekend plans with friends.
Don't respond, faggot. There is nothing you can say here that will make anyone unread the groveling, embarrassing faggotry you posted.
Cot damn what a pussy you are. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:22 PM Author: bistre plaza You have some anger issues. Seek help. I don't think biglaw is for you, try something more your level. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884789) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:23 PM Author: purple tattoo bbw Lol.
*pats you on the head*
Get back in that cubicle, bitch.
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:24 PM Author: bistre plaza Look at this guy, "don't reply to me or else!" and keeps replying. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884802) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:25 PM Author: purple tattoo bbw Keep going little worker bee. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884808) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:28 PM Author: bistre plaza Look at this guy, "don't reply to me or else!" and keeps replying.
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:34 PM Author: purple tattoo bbw aww looks like the alpha senior associate is a broken record now. gonna be a woman and talk shit behind someones back? lol pathetic womanly behavior. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884848) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:35 PM Author: bistre plaza You're the idiot for continuing to talk to a broken record. Oh, I almost forgot.
Look at this guy, "don't reply to me or else!" and keeps replying. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:37 PM Author: purple tattoo bbw Can you explain why think its manly to talk shit about someone behind their back rather and being duplicitous rather than confronting them? Are you really that beta? Can you explain your thought process behind that? I'm genuinely curious as most men consider that to be duplicitous behavior of someone who lacks courage and character. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884858) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:41 PM Author: bistre plaza Well, here's my standard procedure when I work with a junior who has a bad reputation for the first time. I meet with them and I tell them I'll help train them if they show a willingness to work hard. I expect them to check in with me every day before leaving the office if they are on an active deal with me. I expect them to be reachable within a 30 minute time if they leave the office and the deal is active. If they break any of these rules, I tell them I'm going to take them off my deal and tell the group head I can't work with this person. So there is no thought process at all. I dont want to waste a single second of my life working with some kid who doesnt realize hes a junior assoc in biglaw.
So no, they have a head's up. But the thing is, at a V5, all the young associates I've encountered have been crazy hard working, intense and always in the office. You almost never have to talk shit about someone to get them pulled from your deal. But when it happens, it's a matter of self-preservation. When opposing counsel gives you comments at 11pm on Friday and you have 24 hours to turn a revised SPA, you don't have time to track down a junior only for them to spend 8 hours to fuck it up only for you to have to redo the whole thing.
And by the way, in any biglaw firm, everyone knows who the good associates are and who the shit ones are...everyone but the shit ones. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:40 PM Author: Self-centered Headpube Native So what's your end goal? Partner and Biglaw forever? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885969) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 2:15 AM Author: bistre plaza I was service partner material at best so I quit and went a lifestyle firm in a secondary market. They treat me like a superstar and its chill but the work is boring as fuk. Low standards for everything. Nobody catches your typos or inconsistent internal references and shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33888866) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 1:57 AM Author: Diverse Filthy Mad Cow Disease Persian Solid flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33888836) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 2:10 AM Author: bistre plaza Nah. Most guys would just write off a shitty junior and not say anything to him. When a partner asks "what do you think about staffing Joe Shit on this deal" you simply say you would prefer working with someone else and the partner gets the message and he is fucked. Or if you want to be a bigger asshole, you tell the partner "i asked Joe Shit to help out but he doesnt seem interested, but I spoke with Jane Faggot and shes excited to work on this".
These types of discussions happen all the time and juniors have no idea their reputations are being made or broken. I thought that was a bit unfair so I always told the juniors what I expected and what would happen so at least they knew. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:22 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Yfwgi (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884787) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:23 PM Author: Talented jap Yea had to be flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884795) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:18 PM Author: Talented jap Cr. Lmfao @ this guys sad, pathetic life. I can't imagine billing 2700 in one year, let alone for several straight. Just LJFL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884760) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:21 PM Author: purple tattoo bbw It is seriously some of the most cringing drivel I've read on this site. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884774) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:23 PM Author: bistre plaza It's what you get when you're in M&A at Wachtell, Cravath, Sullcom, Skadden, STB, DPW, etc.
Has XOXO really gone to shit, that the "biglaw" posters here all work at Reed Smith? Lul.
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:26 PM Author: Talented jap Congrats on being V5 bro. Sounds like it's really worth it. Ljl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884812) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:30 PM Author: bistre plaza Enh I quit last year.
It was hellish. Sucked that my group ended up working on a lot of distressed asset transactions during the financial crisis. 2008-11 were unparalleled, something like a 75% deal closing rate (was back down to maybe 20% when I left) and I must have worked on over 20 deals that closed that first year.
I didn't enjoy it, but watching all your friends getting laid off during that time, I figured I'd best keep my head down and grind for a few years. Once I hit 6th year don't think I billed over 2,100 hours ever again. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:14 PM Author: Talented jap Makes sense thinking like that during the downturn, but your above posts are pretty faggy. I'm lit though and not at a super prestigious MFH firm so I'm sure the culture is quite different. My question is: why the fuck would anyone want to work at one of those firms? Sounds like literal hell on earth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885008) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:23 PM Author: bistre plaza You know how it goes down during OCI. Everyone wants to work for the most prestigious Vault firm without really knowing the sacrifice it entails. You figure you'll grind it out for a few years, get some good experience and the name on the resume to lateral somewhere more humane down the road.
Once you're in, it's really hard to quit because you are literally at the pinnacle of your profession. Once family comes into the equation, then it becomes real easy.
Sort of like, why would anyone join the Navy SEALs? They train hard all the time, get deployed to dangerous places all the time and have ridiculous casualty rates. To quote C3PO, I guess some people are just made to suffer. Ridiculous comparing killing terrorists to turning comments on an SPA I know. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:26 PM Author: Talented jap Are you kidding lol. Someone would join the navy seals because its fucking badass. Being a bitch for a top biglaw firm is the exact opposite of that, and having been there and done that I am sure you know that, despite whatever misconceptions you had as a law student (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885075) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:37 PM Author: bistre plaza As an aside, I think if you offered most people in the military a guaranteed spot in the SEALs they would turn it down. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885127) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 12:40 PM Author: wine area ratface lmao @ the SEALs comparison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33890546) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 12:46 PM Author: bistre plaza To be fair few people in the military would even consider volunteering to try out for spec ops. The rest of the military think those guys are nuts, although of course everyone is in awe of them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33890574) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 9:23 PM Author: up-to-no-good plum nursing home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33887367) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:05 AM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Sup senior associate. I'll have that work to you later today (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884409) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:05 PM Author: bistre plaza If you were my junior I would just tell every partner I know that you're a lazy unreliable piece of shit with questionable work ethic and poor work quality behind your back and suggest staffing someone else on our deals. I would smile and be super friendly to you every day. You'd be out of a job within a year and you would have no idea why. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884669) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:07 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Lmao kill yourself (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884682) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:08 PM Author: bistre plaza Good luck on Monday. I'm sure it will be a productive discussion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884696) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:13 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich You're getting MAF over a little Friday night flame. You sound like a huge fag though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884729) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:15 PM Author: bistre plaza Good luck on Monday. I'm sure it will be a productive discussion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884744) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:10 AM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich You sound like a faggot. I said I would do work. I said I would confront her about the insane threat in person rather than email. I also wasn't the only person on the email.
Sounds like being a service partner is 180 and people like you make biglaw miserable and I hope you get strung up on a lamppost |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:14 AM Author: purple tattoo bbw Cr. Try-hard betas with no self-respect like him are one of the reasons biglaw can be so miserable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884437) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:07 PM Author: bistre plaza No you fuking imbecile.
Call her on her mobile and say, "sure what's up, I'm standing by and was wondering if you could fill me in on this deal? Really looking forward to working with you."
That's being proactive.
Waiting until Monday like a fucking faggot is being a fucking faggot.
That's the biggest problem with fucking idiot juniors like you. You fuck up, someone with more experience tries to straighten you out and you don't absord, you just blah blah blah. Shits like you don't last in this profession so why don't you fuck off in two years and tell me how you're doing at your shit midlaw firm. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:07 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich (MAF senior wasting another weekend making some partner more money) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884688) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:11 PM Author: purple tattoo bbw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884717) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:49 PM Author: bistre plaza I gave you a fucking perfect script to make this woman think you're a fucking all star and you shit all over it.
You don't have to mean it, you don't have to like it, hell you can be face fucking your mom while you call this woman and say those words. But it 100% would have made a favorable impression in exchange for no fucking effort at all.
"Bbbbut my self-respect I'm alpha!" Fuck you you're a junior in biglaw. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:15 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Lmao it was a flame post brother. I respect your work ethic and could never do that. I have no problem being a mediocre associate and being shown the door. That sort of devotion of a biglaw firm just isn't for me but I'm not going to hate on you for working like you do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885023) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:18 PM Author: bistre plaza As long as youre self aware its all good. Biglaw sucks and is unreasonable 99% of the time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885040) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:21 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich I am self-aware and I know I'm a very mediocre associate. Yes the OP was flame but of course it comes from irl experience like all good comedy and parody (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885056) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:25 PM Author: bistre plaza Well if it means anything, I wrote my posts in this thread to try to help you out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885069) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:32 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Thanks man I appreciate it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885106) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:23 PM Author: Motley indian lodge what country in asia are you from? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884797) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:52 AM Author: mint old irish cottage tanning salon this must be well crafted flame, mental illness, or, in classic xo style, both at once (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884605) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:17 PM Author: Violent kink-friendly school cafeteria (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885036) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 12:41 PM Author: wine area ratface (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33890556) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:57 AM Author: Angry Amber Stage senior associate here and this is only cr if there is an ongoing deal that OP is staffed on and there should be some general expectation that he'll be there for whenever things heat up. could be that some senior associate failed to give him a heads up that things were going on, hence him supposedly being blindsided.
but no firm will just call out random juniors who aren't working on a case or deal and threaten them with 10 pm emails. so I agree with you that this guy may have needed to be more aware, but I suspect it's because he's part of a team and was not seeing things unfold in real time until this came up. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:27 PM Author: bistre plaza There is no fucking way that girl senior would have sent him that email unless in her mind, there is something wrong with OP.
OP, rather than trying to figure out what is wrong with his reptuation, decides to come to xoxo to talk shit.
I suspect OP is reasonably intelligent, so I assume he just doesn't give a fuck which is fair. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:50 PM Author: Flesh erotic organic girlfriend house Bro when I read this, i picture you as that lawyer from The NY Times article, addicted to meth so he can bill more, constantly afraid of losing clients or upsetting partners, writing his daughter apology notes for missing major life events. Hope ur life doesn't end on a conference call for work like his did (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884911) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:12 PM Author: bistre plaza When I first started in biglaw I told myself the next few years were going to blow and I would keep my head down and grind until I saved enough money to buy a house in my hometown and gtfo of MFH. That moment came for me and I hit the eject button and now live a chill life in a secondary coty. Those were brutal years for me but it was worth it.
I spent 4 years in the Army before law and we were always expected to be within 1 hour of base at all times in case we had to do some BS readiness exercise at 3am so in a way that prepared me for biglaw. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:12 PM Author: swashbuckling police squad (TLS poaster) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884999) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:25 PM Author: walnut histrionic new version brunch All of your advice is cr if your sole dream is to get ahead in biglaw.
With that said, you're a faggot and should kill yourself at your next immediate opportunity. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:13 AM Author: Adventurous Twinkling Uncleanness Corn Cake Fwd to MP with the note "haha wow Holy shit. Glad I cleared this through you first. When I get back let's discuss some strategies I have for firmwide communications. This seems to be a constant issue with senior associates. You're right btw peaches in my home state of Georgia where I'm visiting my dying mother are terrific this time of year. Thanks. " (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884196) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:02 AM Author: sepia son of senegal state (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884398) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:02 AM Author: Irradiated stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884399) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:15 AM Author: razzmatazz round eye cruise ship Someone explain to me the point of going to an ivy league school and studying hard, all so you can have some annoying cunt email you to order you around on the weekends.
Better off becoming a cop, or copping welfare. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:57 AM Author: mauve submissive crackhouse amazing all the idiots responding to this shitty flame. why is this 75 poasts? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884370) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:00 PM Author: House-broken Corner Multi-billionaire senior associates at my biglaw firm used to threaten to tell on junior associates to the "managing partner" all the time, it was no big deal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884640) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:01 PM Author: mauve submissive crackhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884644) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:10 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Lmao. I said not flame! Who is this retard above going insane and foaming at the mouth over his 3000 billables (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884708) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:32 PM Author: bistre plaza Enh I quit last year.
Going 2700+ was hellish. Sucked that my group ended up working on a lot of distressed asset transactions during the financial crisis. 2008-11 were unparalleled, something like a 75% deal closing rate (was back down to maybe 20% when I left) and I must have worked on over 20 deals that closed that first year.
I didn't enjoy it and would never do it again, but watching all your friends getting laid off during that time, I figured I'd best keep my head down and grind for a few years. Once I hit 6th year don't think I billed over 2,100 hours ever again. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:34 PM Author: Motley indian lodge did you go inhouse? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884846) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:36 PM Author: bistre plaza No I went to work for my uncle's law firm. Midlaw. Considered in-house but I felt I was a bit too senior so I didn't really bother trying. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884856) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:11 PM Author: tantric jew Sounds like ibanking (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884713) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 12:14 PM Author: House-broken Corner Multi-billionaire "if this is an issue we'll need to talk to blankfein." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884732) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:44 PM Author: tantric jew Esposito, actually (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885159) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:07 PM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house DevryMastersCandidate speaks the truth. Everyone saying how his advice is toxic, or he's not chill, is missing the point. This is what top transactional biglaw is like. If you don't like it (and many people don't!) then do something else. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33884977) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:25 PM Author: Talented jap Ok. Why would anyone want to work at a firm like that exactly? You can make basically the same money working at far more chill biglaw firms (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885068) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:30 PM Author: bistre plaza Because those who ended up at V5 (most of whom don't stay longer than 3-5 years) made that decision when they were students who didn't know shit about biglaw. By the time you step foot into S&C or wherever, it's already too late and you know quitting after 2 years will make you look like a failure when you're trying to lateral and you try to grind it out to that "sweet spot" of 5-7 years when you can basically get any job you apply for.
When I was interviewing, my interviews were a joke. Like literally a 45 minute personal convo about family and sports with the hiring partner and an offer the next day. The kids at the more "chill" biglaw firms all ended up OK from what I can see (particularly as a result of the biglaw layoffs of 08-11 creating a huge shortage of midlevels), but none of us know that going in. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:33 PM Author: Talented jap I get that. that doesn't explain why you have bought into the shit culture of these firms hook line and sinker, though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885112) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:40 PM Author: bistre plaza As I mentioned above, survival insticts. Biglaw is a very unique cultural environment, and I committed to keeping my head down and grinding. That involved fitting into the culture and not sticking out in anyway.
I'm not so dense that I don't realize almost everything we do in a biglaw firm are pointless and most of the transactions we work on are meaningless. Like who gives a fuck about changing ownership of an offshore drilling rig from Company A to Company B. But as long as I was there and staffed on that deal, I was going to keep my mouth shut and do as I'm told like a good solider. I mean you know what the rules of the game are. My personal belief was that trying to fight the game was only going to make my life harder so I accepted that I had no control of my situation other than the ability to punch out. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:44 PM Author: Talented jap Seems like your attitude is largely a result of being in biglaw during the downturn. Can't really knock it in that case (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885160) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:47 PM Author: bistre plaza Yeah maybe. Those were some dark dark days, firms were just looking for an excuse to fire you. I remember some first year got fired within his first year for logging into some dating website from his work computer. The IT department logged exatly what time he logged on to eharmony or whatever site it was, partner cross-referenced it to his work deadlines and realized he has logged on within 3 hours of an important client deadline. Gone that day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885175) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:48 PM Author: Talented jap Ljl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885179) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:56 PM Author: bistre plaza Yeah if you gave me a choice between repeating years 1-6 at a V5 or going to work at Starbucks, I would choose Starbucks in a heartbeart. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885206) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:27 PM Author: Sienna Underhanded Foreskin Reading Party what the hell, all of your posts have seemed pretty realistic for a V5 MFH biglaw, but i've never heard of this type of thing happening in biglaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885375) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:31 PM Author: bistre plaza One of the partners had a hard-on for this guy and was looking for an excuse to can him. I think the biggest issue was him being slow and missing deadlines, so they checked his internet browsing record and voila.
I mean this was when firms were cancelling summer programs, rescinding offers, if you failed the bar you were out, etc.
Edit: thinking back, that was actually the first person in my class to get cut so I remember it being a pretty scary moment realizing even first years aren't safe. |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 1:57 AM Author: Abusive mischievous tank faggot firefighter This must be flame. I worked biglaw for 7 years and poasted from work all the time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33888835) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 2:06 AM Author: bistre plaza We had to make an SEC filing by like 4pm that day. The junior was being really slow in turning around comments and we needed to get a final draft to client asap for signoff before we send to printers for EDGARizing the filing. It was some BS 13G filing or something that should have taken 15 minutes so my guess is this junior wasnt feeling the rush and didnt realize the printers need time to convert the file before filing.
Partner gets pissed, says he will do it himself. Asks IT to check his browsing history and he is gone by the end of the day. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 3:56 PM Author: Scarlet pit JFC. That's fucking bad and horrible. What happened to the d00der? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885809) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:26 PM Author: bistre plaza Last I saw working at some small/midsized firm in Jersey. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33888291) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:17 PM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house I think people go to more prestigious firms because 1) they believe the hours will be similar throughout all of biglaw; and 2) even if you told them the top firms were marginally more demanding, they wouldn't be able to fully comprehend the tradeoff.
As far as why do you buy the culture? Either as a self-defense mechanism, or because you are still delusional enough to think that other firms are equally bad. Obviously this delusion is dispelled by having friends at more chill firms, rather than a social circle of ibankers and gunners. |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 2:21 AM Author: bistre plaza Yeah #1 was the biggest factor for me. I figured whether I am at a V5 or Chadbourne my life would suck either way. Lol, huge difference between 2700 hours and barely hitting 2100 for your bonus.
And the funny thing about a V5 is nobody really cares about your hours. Its not like we have hourly requirements. Guys in slower groups billing 1700 hours get the same exact bonus as the guy billing 3000. You have no control over your billing you just work on whats assigned to you, so there is no concept of gunning. Its either do the work or leave, with the upside that if youre slow nobody will touch you or fire you.
Of course when you interview to lateral one of the top three questions they ask (other than why r u leaving and why us) are what were your hours like? When I tell them they r like holy shit and I have an offer the next day or they are literally begging you not to interview anywhere else so they have time to prepare an offer for you. |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 9:42 AM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house I could have written all of this--matches my experience for sure. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33889523) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:06 PM Author: Crystalline base immigrant Lol i know lots of ex-v5 people who left within 2 years by choice and none of them are failures. You're just risk averse and the fact that you ended up working at your uncle's firm that you could've done coming straight out of law school and not even bothering to try applying to in house is illogical at best. Wtf was even the point of the resume value of a v5. Not worth it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885249) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:08 PM Author: bistre plaza I agree with you. That was just my thinking at the time. In hindsight, as I've mentioned several times here and elsewhere, I would never do a V5 gig again. Also on my behalf, my uncle's firm was really a last resort for me - didn't really want to go there but it was an easy option so I took it. Would have much rather preferred to go in-house at a couple places I REALLY wanted to work at (defense contractors) but they weren't looking to hire anyone my seniority. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885266) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:19 PM Author: Crystalline base immigrant I'm not knocking on working at your uncles firm at all, I just feel like if you're gonna sacrifice your personal life to work at a v5, it better lead to some superior overall outcome that you really wanted. Your view of a career trajectory is very linear and doesn't account for other ways and means to get to where you want to be, which is what led you blindly to grind it out for so many years. Having started in biglaw in 2007, I saw the carnage myself, but most people ultimately ended up fine but just had to take an unexpected path to reach where they wanted to be. Anyway, if you want whatever in house job, it's still not too late. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885328) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:43 PM Author: Motley indian lodge lol the VALUE of a v5. an INHOUSE JOB. imagine your 11 year old self saying your dream is to be an inhouse lawyer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885454) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:48 PM Author: bistre plaza The world needs ditch diggers too. My only goal now is to put food on the table for my family, provide the best education money can buy and enjoy whatever bits of good there is on this shitty planet before I take a long nap. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885481) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:36 PM Author: razzle-dazzle cumskin Khan academy is free (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885955) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 12:30 PM Author: Crystalline base immigrant Well I'm not sure what devry wanted when he began his biglaw career, but if it was always to be in house at a defense contractor, a V5 is useless and he would've been better off doing ERISA compliance at seyfarth shaw before going in house to Northrop.
The only ways I've seen a v5 make a difference is really in lateralling if you want to stay in the biglaw world. Lower ranked firms will welcome you with open arms. it doesn't help you get better ausa jobs and it doesn't help you get better in house jobs.
And also, your 11 year old self may have had bigger ambitions than a generic desk job, but after you get a useless lib arts degree, you quickly realize that there aren't that many paths to a comfortable life that doesn't require a ton of sacrifices to your personal time. |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 12:41 PM Author: bistre plaza See, how the hell was I supposed to know that as a 1L in law school! My vague notion was I would be able to transition my superior M&A skills to drafting and negotiating purchase and supply contracts for places like Northrop or Lockheed. Lulz at me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33890555) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 1:05 PM Author: Crystalline base immigrant You're honestly better off not being in house there. My husband is an engineer at one of big defense contractors and the inefficiencies are astounding (unsurprising given the nature of the work). Morale is also very low because they treat their employees poorly and lawyers there are also not paid well. The only positive thing is that hours are great. This isn't an company specific critique, it's just how the industry operates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33890679) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 1:06 PM Author: bistre plaza But dont they have security clearances and get to work on really ficking cool tech that we cant even imagine? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33890688) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 1:09 PM Author: Crystalline base immigrant Yes my husband has a sci clearance and cannot talk about his project. It sounds cool but like all things, your daily interactions with coworkers and bosses drive how you feel about a job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33890692) |
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Date: August 3rd, 2017 9:30 PM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house Possible to expand on why defense contractors are generally bad for lawyers? I get the "typically low paid" part. Is it an industry culture of aggressiveness and treating people poorly (like moreso than finance)? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33913738) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:20 PM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house I don't think first year biglawyers are capable of having a good idea of career trajectory. You learn what opportunities are available (and the tradeoffs of such opportunities) as you gain experience. I mean it's great if you can parlay a top firm into an elite inhouse or something; but plenty of people move to non-legal jobs or jobs they could've gotten without the top firm. And I agree that it is definitely not too late to cop inhouse; seniority is a much bigger problem if you're trying to lateral within biglaw or something. You've just got to find an in-house place that is full of elite credentialed lawyers who will value that (as it seems to vary a ton). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885900) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 12:58 PM Author: Crystalline base immigrant I agree the issue is that some (most?) law students do not understand the nuances of career trajectory when they are interviewing or junior biglawyer, although I find it hard to believe that law students haven't heard of the bad reputation of hours at cravath, sullcrom, Skadden and wachtell at oci. Somehow dpw escaped being lumped with the others, prob due to their reputation for being "polite" and white shoe (i. e. passive aggressive). When I did oci many years ago, firms like Cleary and debevoise were more popular over v5. My experience is that students were not blindly chasing prestige and vault rankings thinking that was the only thing that mattered.
As for the notion of v5 to "elite" in house, in house hiring patterns are too random for there to be any consistency. One thing law students cannot anticipate is that you're better off going to Schulte roth or Sidley if you want to do eventually exit in house into a hedge fund or Wilson sonsini or whatever firm feeds into google. I would've picked the firm and practice area much more wisely if I knew how this actually worked. |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 3:17 PM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house Agreed entirely. I wish I would've known your second paragraph in law school too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33891643) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 6:12 PM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house DMC, explain the appeal of in-house at defense contractors? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33886360) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:30 PM Author: bistre plaza It relates to my military background and Ive always been interested in dealing with the government and military bros. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33888326) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 9:45 AM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house Ty. I should have figured it out after the V5/Navy SEAL comparison :) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33889534) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:21 PM Author: sticky legend *asshole senior associate pounding on a bigass cowbell outside your bedroom window at 7:30 Saturday morning* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885054) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:44 PM Author: bistre plaza When you get to be a midlevel, you will have some shit mid-market client from Germany calling you on your mobile at 7:30am Saturday morning asking for a revised draft by noon.
You may be asked to drive out to JFK on Christmas Eve to have a meeting with a client at the airport before he flies off on his holidays.
Or spend a Saturday holed up in CT because some client doesn't want to take his helicopter into the office that day and would rather have the meeting at his house so he can watch the game with his kids.
Partners are assholes because of the clients. Senior associates are assholes because of the partners. As they say, shit rolls downhill. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:56 PM Author: Talking comical patrolman Good poast but you're going to get these eager young law beavers excited for cool German client face-to-face meetings and spending time in the bosom of elite wealth. You know they'll be in their drab biglaw office at 11:54 P.M. with a half-eaten container of smelly thai food on their desk, brute-forcing their way through some diligence shit for the fifth time under the influence of the same amphetamine salt concentration 'medication' they have relied on for performance since college. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885205) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:01 PM Author: bistre plaza Lol that unique smell of leftover fish sauce mixed with sweat and whatever shit gasses you're farting and burping out of your rotting body throughout the night. I forget exactly where but I remember someone telling me they refused to work with anyone who orders Indian or gets hallal guys for dinner because of the lingering smell. I vaguely remember an HR complaint arising from that.
People always ask why we don't date other lawyers. Because we've seen each other at our filthiest and that image can never be erased. That smell when you take your shoes off after having worn them for over 24 hours straight lol (or worse, when some woman takes her heels off during a marathon drafting session in some conference room, woah that'll wake you up). |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:36 PM Author: sticky legend jfc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885414) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:38 PM Author: razzle-dazzle cumskin Stay woke! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885959) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:41 PM Author: Self-absorbed Parlor Affirmative Action jfc, this guy seems credited but this shit is way over the top, telegraphs flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885972) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 11:36 PM Author: bistre plaza Youve never done 6 hor long page flips through a merger agreement or spa at 2am and the female colleagues decide to get comfortable and stink up the whole room? Lol. Bare feet jammed in poorly ventilated heels turning into a cesspool of bacteria and sweat in a single stuffy conference room four hours until finally being released all at once into the nostrils of the poor fuck sitting next to her.
This happened to me three times and I clearly remember each instance. They say smell is the top trigger for memories and its true. This even caused me to develop some weird tick where I demanded my gf wash her feet first if she was ever planning on taking her shoes off in my apartment. Took me a year or so to get over it. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 1:52 PM Author: Talking comical patrolman Agreed that it sounds like flame but it's also not beyond the realm of possibility. More likely that he did get a 10:00 P.M. email but he's leaving out information or context because he's MAF and needs to feel like he's the reasonable party here.
CR was whoever said to have just called her Saturday morning. If you want to back people down in biglaw, make them speak to you face to face and don't react to flaring tempers or yelling. You can't win in that scenario. Just be firm, clear, and don't appear rattled. If you directly reach out to people they are 10X less cavalier about acting crazy.
It's the difference between how people are willing to yell at each other in traffic from the safety of their cars vs. a face-to-face interaction on the sidewalk. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:00 PM Author: lavender karate Jc, the sub thread was fucking triggering. I had forgotten how mentally deranged people who put prestige at the center of their existence are. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885225) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:02 PM Author: purple tattoo bbw little eichmanns (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885233) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:05 PM Author: bistre plaza Strangely, I still have nightmares about law school, but none about biglaw. I must have been too tired to have formed any proper memories during those years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885247) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:27 PM Author: lavender karate I was the last year that graduated in the good times. Spent my entire third year learning to play golf and ignoring everyone in my class but one or two people.
Law firm was fine except some of the people that behaved as described above. I was in a California rather than NYC so it wasn't nearly as bad.
The slaughtering of juniors does ring true. The fear was real for most people. I was largely indifferent and just did whatever I wanted to do, which mostly focused on trying to bring in business so I didn't have to listen to anyone. In retrospect I'm shocked I didn't get fired. Was lucky to bring in a few clients early on. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:38 PM Author: bistre plaza The number of top firm refugees working as contract/staff/discovery attorneys after getting laid-off or in mind-numbing compliance roles at some retail bank's back office in NJ was soul crushing.
We still had it better than banking bros. Lots of guys in MBA programs who got their offers rescinded (or had offers from Bear or Lehman) and never quite recovered, or how places like Goldman or Morgan Stanley would only give offers to maybe 2 out of 15 summer associates (and those 2 were former IB analysts at GS or MS). Brutal. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:41 PM Author: lavender karate At least an MBA is viewed as a somewhat transferable degree. Losing the caviar dreams of that banking lifestyle was probably rough but you could still bring the degree almost anywhere.
Lawyers who get off track are basically destroyed because only other lawyers value their skills.
The number of conversations I've had with lawyers about how I escaped numbers well into the dozens. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:29 PM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house I think this is part of the biglaw culture too. The understanding that lots of people get pushed out, and the range of possible outcomes is ridiculously large (i.e. you stick around and charm some people and bam you're a rainmaker partner at a top shop...or you get canned and you can't even find temp work). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885935) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:49 PM Author: Thriller white theatre rigpig Please just shut the fuck up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885486) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 2:48 PM Author: Big mental disorder lol cr
though i think mfh band 1 m&a is its own circle of hell
the worst is when people like that filter into other practice groups that don't need to be run like the client is goldman sachs (or whoever) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 3:06 PM Author: lavender karate Law school is a toxic breeding ground for this mentality. Any predisposition toward this thinking is magnified by an order of magnitude. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885568) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:42 PM Author: Self-absorbed Parlor Affirmative Action that's part of the point. it's all indoctrination into being a good little cog for equity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885976) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 5:05 PM Author: lavender karate Everything about the system is messed up. I started doing business development my first year and one partner flipped the fuck out. We got into this argument about he felt like I wasn't dedicated to the firm because I wasn't focused on being a good lawyer. I pointed out that I was already billing in the top 10% and was doing this so I could have a better career.
Partner flipped out and said he only way to become a partner was to be the best and BD didn't matter. The fact that he inherited his entire book of business after the partner he worked for keeled over from a heart attack was lot on him.
I guess what I'm saying is that law firms are populated by these incredibly insecure people who cling to the trappings of the profession and whichever firm they are at. Their risk aversion and status sensitivity has resulted in this incredibly toxic groupthink and a near universal hatred of lawyers by people who have to interact with them.
It doesn't have to be this way, but I can't see it changing. |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 6:17 PM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house Agree all the way.
You're probably not helping that partner's deals by spending less than 100% of your time on them, right?
As for the problems, outside of elite status signifiers, it's pretty tough for a non-expert to judge the quality of transactional work product so you're stuck playing some game of tryhard beta gotcha. |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 1:40 AM Author: bistre plaza Lol so true. Firm management wants you to go do business dev but individual partners yell at you to focus on your tehcnical/execution skills and let them worry about marketing. Lol. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33888808) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 2:12 AM Author: lavender karate Its all fraudlies.
I got lucky and managed to land two high prestige clients in my first 18 months on the job and then all of a sudden the tenor of the conversation completely changed.
When my colleague's hours dipped, they were laid off (this was during the gutting in '08-'09). When my hours dipped they asked what they could do to make me happier.
I realized I didn't care about making partner. It was all the same: find a client, get a matter, assign out the work, monitor the work, argue with lawyers about how much they billed, argue with client about how much we billed, rinse, repeat. The only part I enjoyed was hanging out with clients helping them try to figure out ways to improve their business by trying new business models.
I left a few months into my third year.
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Date: July 31st, 2017 2:15 AM Author: Big mental disorder jfc tranny seems so much better than lit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33888867) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 2:28 AM Author: bistre plaza How the F did you get good clients in 18 months? Prior connections or are you just a natural snake charmer?
Shocking you quit you would have made partner and be making millions right now. |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 2:46 AM Author: lavender karate I picked an area at the intersection of law and technology that there wasn't anyone established in (think things like privacy safeguards in social networks or shit like cryptocurriencies now). Boomer partners couldn't compete because they didn't have any familiarity with the subject matter and I was able to become an "expert" relatively quickly. My clients were often often closer to age to me than to boomers pitching for business and I was often enthusiastic about their products.
I brought in one client the firm had pitched for like 10 years without success. Turns out the GC at the client hated one of the partners at my firm. He gave me the work for two reasons: (1) I appeared to know what I was talking about and (2) to fuck with the partner he hated. Said partner immediately tried to horn in on it and shit got all perilous for a period of time.
I think by the end of my third year my book was maybe ~700k-1m of stable work a year and growing pretty quickly. Firm said they would be willing to consider early partnership.
But here's the thing dude: I'm just not driven by money or prestige. I like being involved in high stakes decisions where I'm an underdog. It's really the only thing that interests me professionally. Once I felt like my career path was "solved" in the firm, it became really boring. What was the point of building a bigger book of business? It didn't add any challenge or change my day in any meaningfully interesting way.
So I left for a job at a startup that imploded thereafter. I regularly blow up my career to keep things interesting. |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 2:54 AM Author: bistre plaza Jesus. Reminds me of when I would try to expense a dinner with some VPs at some IB and a partner would email me telling me he was good friends with the head of xxx there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33888942) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 2:58 AM Author: lavender karate Yeah, it got intense with him bringing me to his office, offering me a drink and then proceeding to try and take the client.
I told him that the client wasn't interested in working with him.
I had other people pull shit, my response was always the same: "Awesome! Send me the matter number you have open with them and we can work on expanding the relationship." That usually got them to back off.
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Date: July 31st, 2017 4:01 AM Author: Big mental disorder ljl at are profession
i've had a few times as an associate where partners try to weasel their way onto matters other partners brought in by appealing to me. "oh yea i have lots of relevant experience, sounds interesting, give me a call and we can talk about how i can help out on it, etc. etc. etc...." This was as much true for service partners with no books (understandable) as it was for equity partners, even those with eight-figure books (ljl) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 9:41 AM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house Very interesting. Definitely a CR strategy for building a book--the two people I know having the most success in biglaw did a similar thing with an emerging niche practice. And I guess if you're the type of person who can get entrepreneurial and do this once, you can leave and do it again someplace else. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33889518) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 9:47 AM Author: Hairless arousing friendly grandma library Does this only happen at SV firms? Can't even think of that kind of practice existing st my NYC firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33889542) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 11:42 AM Author: bistre plaza Probably depends on the niche really. Traditional SV firms like Google/Amazon/Facebook etc. all use old fart white shoe partners at V10 firms for their major corporate transactions (Weil, STB, S&C etc.). Most of the top VC guys are also former GS/MS ibanking types and are equally prestige driven when it comes to selecting lawyers.
The point being, if it was easy, someone else would have already done it. Hence, the poaster was balling it through the great recession since he came up with an idea we are struggling to imagine. |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 11:02 PM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house I've seen it happen two ways: 1. start at a less prestigious firm, develop the specialty (and the book), and lateral to better firms as the niche becomes more marketable and 2. have previous w/e or friends in finance or banking, and gain insight as to easy things a lawyer could do to help them (I think most biglaw would be cool with this, although as noted above you need to be careful that the key partners don't think you're giving less than 100% effort to their deals). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33893620) |
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Date: August 4th, 2017 9:55 AM Author: embarrassed to the bone disrespectful locus The last part is very credited. I developed a book and it was a constant source of tension between me and my boss. It ultimately led to me leaving the firm and going solo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33916161) |
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Date: December 9th, 2019 1:08 AM Author: aphrodisiac irate scourge upon the earth senate I don't know why this popped back up on the front page, but this is terrifyingly believable.
As a midlevel associate, I happened to be out for drinks with a good friend who was CEO of a decent-sized tech company. He'd been overseeing litigation that was being run by another biglaw firm, and just didn't like them. He told me he could just transfer over the case to my firm, because he liked me; I didn't even need to be involved, he just wanted me to be their point of contact. Didn't care much about cost. Wasn't going to be massive, but close to $1mm in billables per year, and he'd paid more than that last year.
Firm's response: "We don't take matters that associates bring in. It's the partners' job to bring in business." |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:47 PM Author: Domesticated ruby sandwich Wow I maed it as a poster. Ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33885997) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 1:40 AM Author: bistre plaza This was a good break from the Trumpmo and scamcoin threading and a reminder of what xoxo used to be like 10 years ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33888811) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 9:43 AM Author: Frozen pervert (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33889526) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 4:59 PM Author: Bossy orchid useless brakes hell op, did the 10:30 email include a read receipt request? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33886071) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 9:38 PM Author: hairraiser slimy dog poop LMAO, why in-house? This is why. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33887439) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 12:44 PM Author: slate legal warrant ticket booth OP goes to bed at 10:30 on a Friday night? Flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33890565) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 3:19 PM Author: impressive forum Update please (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33891656) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 7:33 PM Author: medicated circlehead station great thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33893249) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 7:56 PM Author: Crystalline base immigrant I know the original OP was flame, but here's a real exchange from my biglaw days. The guy was a 9th year associate who was up for partner and trying to get me to do some BS client dev thing on a Saturday (read from bottom up):
I'm not sure what exactly you need to "review" and what you have to add to my lit research from a corporate perspective.
I don't appreciate you pulling rank and scolding me that I had "24 hours" from Friday evening to now to do something that you've arbitrarily decided that I should research, which I believe is unnecessary work. I have no problems working weekends when it is necessary and important. Whatever research you're doing (if any) is not in any way dependent on what I find from the lit side. I will give you something tomorrow for review.
-----Original Message----- From: Douche Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 7:46 PM To: Nutella Subject: RE: Summary
Nutella,
We talked 5 pm your time on Friday. You have had over 24 hours. The deadline is not artificial as I am working straight the the weekend and all day Monday. Also you are not in a position to decide what is best for a potential client. Please send a revised summary tonight.
Nutella wrote:
We had discussed my adding some additional points. To that end, I am doing some additional case law research but I do not have time to do it tonight. You are free to do whatever research you want on your own time, but given that this is a non-billable project, I am not going to bend over backwards on Saturday night to send you something on an artificial deadline that you've created. I'm not sure what there is for you to review and revise from my research.
-----Original Message----- From: Douche Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 7:37 PM To: Nutella Subject: RE: Summary
I am jammed for most of the day tomorrow on a closing and have just a few hours in the morning. We had previously discussed you providing the summary by the end of today. Please send tonight.
Nutella wrote:
I don't have time to do it tonight. Will send you something tomorrow.
-----Original Message----- From: Douche Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 3:55 PM To: Nutella Subject: Summary
Nutella,
Can you get me your summary by end of day today, I already have very little time to review it, and will be able to turn to it tomorrow morning NY time.
Thanks
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Date: July 31st, 2017 9:52 PM Author: bistre plaza Would you have held your ground like that if it was a 9th year in your own practice group? Took some balls to push back like that in 2010! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33893547) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 11:11 PM Author: Green fragrant travel guidebook step-uncle's house Congrats for pushing back and getting away with it. I know it's non-billable and another department, but this is still an email exchange that I think gets a lot of people fired (unless you have some friends in high places). Why wouldn't you just be firm but vague with an excuse. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33893629) |
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Date: July 31st, 2017 11:51 PM Author: Orange electric skinny woman market Cr. Partner came to my house once and "counseled" me for far less. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33893683) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 2:02 AM Author: bistre plaza We had an "all hands" dd project spanning something like 50,000 docs in the vdr, so we had people from all groups helping with the review. This one first year from cap mkts was reluctant to help (I dont know how to do m&a dd type excuse) and returned back a pos, incomplete and late summary of the docs she was assigned. Senior associate on the deal flipped a shit, not sure what was said to the partners but the cap mkts junior was gone within a month and the head of his team came by to apologize to our team. Odd case. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33894342) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 11:02 AM Author: Crystalline base immigrant I was so fed up and felt like if I got fired, then so be it. I had a good friend visiting that weekend so I really didn't want to do work on Saturday and I gave him the stuff on Sunday lol. there was just a plug in the PowerPoint for the lit portion with Westland case cites. There was no way he was going to check the cites and review it so he was basically just on a power trip wanting to ruin everyone's weekend.
When I spoke with him on Friday, he didn't mention getting the research done on Saturday, especially since the client pitch was like next wed or Thursday. He was also an infamous psycho gunner associate because he had a personal tragedy happen to him (extremely traumatic, like child die in an accident, along those lines) and he came into work THE NEXT DAY. Those are the people who last in biglaw. Think about it. The sad thing is he didn't even make it in the end and he is now a partner at some no name firm populated with Loyola/Pepperdine grads. All that gunning and for nothing.
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Date: August 1st, 2017 11:09 AM Author: mauve submissive crackhouse ljl how much does he make? more than earl? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33895629) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 12:06 PM Author: Crystalline base immigrant Earl works at a legit midlaw firm where PPP is like $1m or something. This is like a 30 person law firm with one office in the valley somewhere. He's working on the acquisition of paco's tacos by benito's taquitos. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33896008) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 12:08 PM Author: impressive forum 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33896023) |
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Date: December 9th, 2019 4:33 AM Author: godawful boltzmann field (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#39235909) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 11:14 AM Author: Hairless arousing friendly grandma library What happened after you gave him the research? Did you get a talk? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33895667) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 12:07 PM Author: Crystalline base immigrant Radio silence and never heard from him or any partner about it ever again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33896014) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 12:18 PM Author: bistre plaza Shit that sucks about his child. If that happened to me I'd either killself or probably end up like that guy to be honest... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33896072) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 12:30 PM Author: Crystalline base immigrant I changed the details on purpose so it wasn't a child, but something similar. The fact he showed up to work the next day is what floored everybody. I can see how somebody would go nuts after the death of a close family member and throw themselves into work, but apparently he was like this prior to the personal tragedy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33896159) |
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Date: December 9th, 2019 1:29 AM Author: fiercely-loyal home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#39235726) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 12:33 AM Author: Abusive mischievous tank faggot firefighter damn, respect.
i usually just find a passive aggressive away to avoid. . . aka don't answer |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 7:59 AM Author: impressive forum this looks like you were 100% in the wrong. You induced him to rely on you then lazily decided against it. It's not your call to decide when senior people review things or what they promise to clients (flip side: what clients demand). It's not your place to call a deadline arbitrary, especially if he is truly working straight through the weekend. You also don't get to decide whether client dev or billable work should take precedence in your life. To the firm, in the big picture, they looks pretty much the same. You need juniors to do both. No one gets to steer their participation one way or another. Finally, senior associate was earl. |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 9:56 AM Author: wine area ratface is this flame? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33895145) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 10:10 AM Author: impressive forum No. Biglaw is a completely toxic institution that should be destroyed and its leaders put up against the wall but as long as you decide to be a house slave you have to play by the master's rules. Some of those rules are: meet every deadline and expectation voiced by a senior do all work delegated by a senior be 100% reliable at all times if someone is working harder than you, it's reasonable for you to be required to follow their unreasonable request |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 10:12 AM Author: Hairless arousing friendly grandma library (cuck) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33895240) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 10:13 AM Author: impressive forum (retard stuck in a 3 sentence escape room) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33895251) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 10:13 AM Author: wine area ratface or what? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33895253) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 8:08 AM Author: cruel-hearted queen of the night odds Douche paused on reading the phrase "bend over backwards" then jerked it to nutella that night? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33894721) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 10:00 AM Author: topaz supple den This poast has me reconsidering my stance on trigger warnings. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33895164) |
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Date: August 1st, 2017 8:17 AM Author: Cerebral coldplay fan wrinkle Having waded through this thread, I certain hope the OP did some pooping in desk drawers at the firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33894737) |
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Date: August 4th, 2017 10:01 AM Author: mentally impaired center becky OP, please provide a thorough status update on this by close of business today. thank (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#33916192) |
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Date: November 2nd, 2019 2:15 AM Author: pale mexican (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3687848&forum_id=2#39060422) |