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B-Bu-But Hillary said "open borders" once! I mean, I didnt read what else she sa
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 7:59 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water said in the same fucking sentence, nor did i take into context who she was giving the speech to, but, nor did I check voting records or legislative efforts on the part of dems in general and her in particular, but ... I mean Rush wouldnt be lying to me ... so yes, Libtards are absolutely for open borders, and that's something we just dont need. Fuck it, I'm voting Trump.
LJL. What did socrates say about democracy? |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:01 AM Author: Cyan ladyboy regret It dies in darkness? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051072) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 6:20 PM Author: filthy sickened mediation 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34054583) |
Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:01 AM Author: Hairraiser whorehouse halford Cr this is mostly false
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/19/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-wants-have-open-/ |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:03 AM Author: Laughsome gunner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051077) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:09 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water But but but politifact is all, you know, biased. It has to be, right, because it keeps saying trump lies a lot. Clearly an ax to grind! I just wont believe any news source except those that say what I like to hear! Its more comforting that way! And I certainly didn't make a mistake by voting for trump! That's for sure! For ... Sure... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051084) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:17 AM Author: Hairraiser whorehouse halford Haha cr dude so cr. "Republicans" think the media is biased they're so retarded (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051096) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:19 AM Author: out-of-control dingle berry goyim (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051104) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 9:40 AM Author: Know-it-all shitlib Yep. When Trump blames "many sides" for violence, it's a double secret inverted shibboleth whereby he's somehow actually pro-nazi. But when Hillary says in secret she wants "open borders" but later "explains" she meant "open borders for ENERGY" we should accept her later explanation rather than the common understanding of what open borders means.
It's just common sense. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 9:41 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water like totes comparable I know rite! totally the same thing! like the stars aligned to make this perfect goddam syllogism. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051394) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 9:49 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water fwiw I don't see a major problem w the way trump handled it. he could have done it better, but who knows--I might have been reluctant to take a position id have to eat later if it turns out the facts didn't support it. "police officer acted foolishly" etc etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051423) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:07 AM Author: Insecure Toilet Seat Trumpmo here. Mostly agree. The fear is that while not necessarily literally accurate, most agree that when you give dems even an inch they tend to call you racist until you give them a mile.She did say that she felt everyone deserved a chance to be American. While cute, normies at least acknowledge that type of thinking is horrible for US. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051081) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:10 AM Author: Cyan ladyboy regret As much as they love to accuse the other side of using "dog whistles", every Dem proposal includes as "path to citizenship" for people who came here by breaking the law.
Granting amnesty to millions who come here illegally every 10-20 years is de facto open borders. Also, I recognize that the last big grant of amnesty for millions came under Reagan. This is why most of us didn't go for cucks because we knew they would be the same. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:14 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water You know yr getting played, right? GC has got you right where they want you w the xenophobic dog whistles. You have to. Or not? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051093) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:18 AM Author: Cyan ladyboy regret Once again, even knowing everything I know now, I'd still vote for Trump over Her. I don't see what you're trying to do ITT other than be provocative. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051099) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:42 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water Lol at "over Her". A new clarification? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051168) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:52 AM Author: Cyan ladyboy regret Did I miss something? Was there another meaningful choice? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051193) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:54 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water Goalposts on 95 etc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051203) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:55 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water So u agree he's sps just better than hrc, is that right (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051207) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:56 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water I'll wait, man... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051214) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 9:18 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051286) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:43 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water Over her. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051171) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:53 AM Author: Insecure Toilet Seat immigration is the penultimate goal of GC, how in the fuck is being against immigration being played by GC. I appreciate your attempts to be the crazy poaster here but if you are going to continue with this you got to at least fan the flame a little better than that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051200) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:00 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water naw, the penultimate goal of GC right now is to leave as many of you confused as possible. we are still in the "make them super malleable" stage. What comes next we don't know. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051470) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:05 AM Author: Insecure Toilet Seat See below for my response. I'm not interested in batting around absurd claims with you. bottom line is I'm right, your wrong, yadda yadda yadda... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051501) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:09 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water you kind of lost cred by demonstrating below that you don't know anything about immigration in the us but are happy to state what you believe to be the law in bullet point fashion so okay. sure man, your right and I'm wrong. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051513) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:11 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water Is a chance the opp to apply from anywhere in the world? If so, what's wrong w that. Doesn't mean you'll get in. ... Or does it?!? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051087) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:32 AM Author: Insecure Toilet Seat it effectively puts the rights of a Napalese goat herder and a white midwesterner in the same basket. It is also disgenic policy that no other nation would even consider. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051141) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:40 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water No it doesn't. It absolutely doesn't. Do you know what due process is? How the one has it, the other doesn't? And that's just for starters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051163) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:41 AM Author: Hairraiser whorehouse halford Both need to have it though so I don't get your point (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051166) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:46 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water I think we always want good people w quality skills to be able to download an application and.apply. Or is even that to much for the right ay this moment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051178) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:57 AM Author: Hairraiser whorehouse halford Your qualification of "good" people seems subjective and maybe bigoted (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051220) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:47 AM Author: Insecure Toilet Seat 1) we give due process to aliens 2) we dont restrict immigration from anywhere 3) immigrants have 100% same rights as natural citizens 4) only one nation in the world allows 1-3. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051180) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 9:27 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water we give due process at a later stage than simply putting an application in, bro.
We restrict immigration all the time.
Immigrants do not have same rights as natural citizens until they are naturalized as citizens. you said immigrants.
We don't allow 1-3 in the way you've written 1-3.
Again, you've swallowed a big pill of misinformation here.
Facts matter. timing matters. you cant just make shit up. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:02 AM Author: Insecure Toilet Seat none of what you wrote is true. All my original points stand. I'd be fine debating the finer points of what I wrote but I don't think thats your goal, your apparently here for provocation and to spew lib buzz words. Not sure what the motive for the flame is here but I'm out bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051487) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:06 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water lol okay. I know nothing about immigration laws. Ive never dealt at length with INS repeatedly in my personal life. I'm not a practicing atty who has helped clients with INS issues. You are right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051505) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:18 AM Author: big magenta chapel mental disorder (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051097) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:22 AM Author: Hairraiser whorehouse halford Uh yeah this was when he was pandering to white trash retards trying to get them to actually vote him into office. Doesn't mean that's what he genuinely believed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051113) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:52 AM Author: big magenta chapel mental disorder (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051194) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:39 AM Author: Rose swashbuckling hissy fit death wish lol Sorry she was unwilling to do much in the way of campaigning because every time she opened her mouth, it backfired.
And maybe she shouldn't have made most of her campaign about Donald being deplorable because he spoke frankly about the problems of illegal immigration.
Fortunately, illegal crossing of the border is down big league, so we got what we wanted. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 9:19 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water so its a one issue thing w trumpmos is it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051290) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 9:32 AM Author: Rose swashbuckling hissy fit death wish For some of us, maybe, but this does seem to be a one-issue thread.
But the issue of libs using their media megaphone to use shame to preempt honest debate is one overarching issue. Sad! |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 9:58 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water well ask yourself if there were a literally morally reprehensible white nationalist who was running in opp to HRC and there were no other viable candidates and the white nationalist had a decent shot at winning and was clear on the immigration issue, would you vote for him because of the immigration issue? would his position on that be enough to overwhelm any personal ickiness you might feel?
Presumably not, right? |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:04 AM Author: Rose swashbuckling hissy fit death wish Unfortunately "literally morally reprehensible white nationalist" is now an empty phrase. I don't know what it means. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051499) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:06 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water oh I see... that's the way you are going. Cough --disingenuous-cough cough (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051507) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:08 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water fine, lets say white nationalist. I'm not saying white supremacist, just white nationalist. and, because your delicate sensibilities were off put by my use of the words morally reprehensible (I assumed we were coming from the same basic place intellectually and morally and maybe we are but that might be in question) I wont use that phrase. Can you answer now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051509) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:10 AM Author: Know-it-all shitlib What, exactly, makes somebody a white nationalist? Be specific. Because in current parlance, it mostly means "anybody who opposes open borders." If you have a narrower meaning in mind, say exactly what it is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051517) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:20 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water you guys seem to have some tension on this point. playing word games now are we? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051567) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:23 AM Author: Know-it-all shitlib No; to the extent you're engaging in a real hypothetical and not just trolling, your hypo invokes a political figure that is a "white nationalist."
Okay, so what makes this person a whine nationalist? What did they say or what policy positions do they invoke that equals "white nationalism?" Be specific. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:24 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water okay i'll answer.
But fwiw you know of course IRL if you did this kind of hedging everyone in the world would be like WTF? jesus just answer the question. you want stuff cut so fine--there must be something there you are afraid of! |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:30 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water I will say we know he would work to try to ensure that the US would be majority white. He would prefer to have white only immigration policy from here on out. He will work as best he can to legally exclude and kick nonwhite immigrants out of the country. He thinks blacks are ripping the country off. In his heart, he would wish to live in an all white enclave but he accommodated political and population realities as best he can. He hasn't thought matters through beyond this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051621) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:35 AM Author: Know-it-all shitlib Was that so hard? No, I wouldn't vote for anybody like that. Thankfully there has never been a major party political candidate like that in living memory. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051648) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:44 AM Author: Rose swashbuckling hissy fit death wish I'd probably just write in Donald J. Trump, but for better or worse our parties will not be nominating an open white nationalist. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051705) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:47 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water two respectable responses here. okay. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051722) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:53 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051199) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 9:42 AM Author: rebellious garrison Nearly all Dems want amnesty.
All Dems want to at least maintain current immigration levels.
Most Dems want to increase current immigration levels.
Nearly all Dems claim that opposition to amnesty or any desire to reduce immigration stems only from "racism."
Most Dems believe that immigration is an inherent good for increasing US diversity, even if it is not to the benefit of US workers.
Nearly all Dems believe immigration will be of a political benefit to them.
Tell me again, what did we get wrong?
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 9:48 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle State Don't forget that Dems believe all of this while also acknowledging that immigration depresses wages for at least some current citizens and decrying the collapse of real wage growth over the last 40 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051417) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 9:56 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water Nearly all Dems want amnesty.
When in what context and no.
All Dems want to at least maintain current immigration levels.
Not so sure about this. most dems would be in favor of IMPROVING and that does not automatically mean increasing
Most Dems want to increase current immigration levels. Nope. Most dems probably want workers in to fill jobs that are unfilled--which would seem to be a workable repub issue other things being equal as well.
Nearly all Dems claim that opposition to amnesty or any desire to reduce immigration stems only from "racism." Come on. this is bullshit.
Most Dems believe that immigration is an inherent good for increasing US diversity, even if it is not to the benefit of US workers. this is too comlpiecated a statement. youd have to break it down
Nearly all Dems believe immigration and increased diversity will be of a political benefit to them. possibly so.
Tell me again, what did we get wrong? See above. Almost all of it I would think.
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:10 AM Author: Fragrant fortuitous meteor Lmao, if you won't even admit that Dems constantly play the racism card in all immigration debates, then there's really no reason to listen to you on anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051515) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:19 AM Author: Cyan ladyboy regret There's no point engaging him when he's in these moods. Mr. Hyde that rabid Shitlib has taken over. We'll have to wait for the return of Dr. Jekyll, the passive cucked racist self deprecating beta provider male returns. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051562) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:28 AM Author: swollen haunted graveyard spaceporn pls respond.
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:36 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water play the racism card
you mean, accuse certain policies of being racist? probably in some instances. Are they in fact racist? Nah man nah, not racist at all.
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:23 AM Author: blathering razzmatazz center place of business I think you've done a good job showing that the issue is complicated and that the dems' position can not be easily summarized in a few empty statements. Immigration, like many of the big issues, is very complicated. My problem with the GOP is that they lack any policy-making apparatus that would allow them to dive into the complicated details of major issues. It was apparent during this year's healthcare debate that they were bereft any comprehensive plan that would address the needs of the public. They did plenty of attacking: they attacked Obama; they attacked the dems and their supposed motivations; they attacked the CBO and academics who said their ideas were shit etc. But when it came time to put pen to paper, to defend their ideas, and to use research to defend their policy positions, they were completely exposed. No thinking person should ever vote for a party that views the study and exercise of public policy as a joke. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051586) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:30 AM Author: scarlet comical home candlestick maker you're doing it again. talking out of your asshole. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051619) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:34 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water him talking out of his asshole is about ten times more lucid than you talking out of your pie hole dude. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051646) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:01 AM Author: scarlet comical home candlestick maker you're a weird mix of flame, retardation, and piss ass drunkenness (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051792) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:37 AM Author: Multi-colored Theatre Community Account "It was apparent during this year's healthcare debate that they were bereft any comprehensive plan that would address the needs of the public."
This is begging the question. When you define the "needs of the public" in a way that is almost antithetical to the conservative philosophy on healthcare, of course a conservative plan would fall short on that criteria.
"But when it came time to put pen to paper, to defend their ideas, and to use research to defend their policy positions, they were completely exposed."
Have you actually tried to research the conservative side of the healthcare policy proposals? Now, I lean towards the side of single-payer, so policy wise I actually think the Dems position is better, but most of the attacks on the Rep bill is not intellectually honest. If you have some time to spare this is a pretty good deep dive into some of the details, by Ezra Klein and Avik Roy:
https://soundcloud.com/ezra-klein-show/avik-roy-and-ezra-debate-the-senate-gops-health-bill
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:11 AM Author: Know-it-all shitlib We don't want open borders. We just want to leave the border unguarded, then amnesty all the infiltrators every couple of decades. Also if somebody was brought here as a kid, you can't deport them that's mean. Also if somebody comes here and has a kid, you can't deport them, that's tearing apart a family! Also if somebody really wants to come here you can't say no, that's mean! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051524) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:21 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water Well, that's sort of hyperbole, isn't it.
But, you at least agree that libtards don't actually have an express platform of "open borders"--we can agree on this? |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:59 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water Yes? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051779) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:49 AM Author: pontificating national security agency set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051726) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:29 AM Author: scarlet comical home candlestick maker I don't see the phrase "open borders" anywhere in there.
FIVE PINOCCHIOS!! |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:21 AM Author: vigorous translucent sanctuary Libs that don't want open borders... what limits are you comfortable with? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051575) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:30 AM Author: swollen haunted graveyard well for instance if someone has committed terrorism or directly reports a desire to commit terrorism on his immigration forms, I think we'd be justified in denying such individual. but to be totally clear it should always be on an individual basis and we should be sure that our decisions don't result in any sort of disparate impact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051616) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:33 AM Author: vigorous translucent sanctuary Nope nope nope, can't deport people for terrorism, a natural born american citizen just committed terrorism by crashing his car into someone protesting racism. Oh and do I even have to mention Timothy McVeigh? Are we going to deport all white men too? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051635) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:51 AM Author: swollen haunted graveyard for each terrorist we are forced to reject we will deport 10 white men (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051736) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:34 AM Author: blathering razzmatazz center place of business I liked the 2014 immigration bill. Every dem senator voted for it. The dems in the House were largely unanimous in supporting it. Mandatory e-verify, increased funding for enforcement and border security (including border wall), increased funding for immigration courts to reduce the backlog, but 13-year path to legalization for those who are already here without a criminal record (pay $5k fine, take english classes, working, other requirements).
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/27/politics/immigration/index.html |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:44 AM Author: Multi-colored Theatre Community Account what is your response to the primary objections to pathway to citizenship:
- morally unfair to aspiring immigrants who didn't break the law and wants to come here
- moral hazard in encouraging more immigrants in the long term (we gave amnesty to 3 million under Reagan and now we have more than 12 million illegal immigrants)
- even if the increased enforcement mechanisms are put in place and are very very effective, short term wise it encourages more illegal immigrants to come in before they're put in place, so they can benefit from the proposed amnesty/pathway to citizenship?
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:54 AM Author: Peach generalized bond public bath Imperfect but emergency situation is needed to stem the tide and waiting for a wall to be built is dreaming for the moon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051751) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:55 AM Author: Multi-colored Theatre Community Account why not just put in the enforcement mechanisms first, wait for short term moral hazard to disappear, and then do pathway to immigration? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051753) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:00 AM Author: Peach generalized bond public bath reasonably sound proposal if you can get both parties to swear to uphold both measures in good faith (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051786) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:13 AM Author: Multi-colored Theatre Community Account why not just do enforcement first? even if amnesty doesn't get passed later, isn't enforcement a good thing that Dems are supposedly in favor of too? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051867) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:18 AM Author: Peach generalized bond public bath Both sides are disengenuous, Dems want new citizen voters as that was how their machine was built since the 19th century, Reps want to placate their Know-Nothing base with enforcement without citizenship.
Just do enforcement with a solemn pledge of pathway to citizenship an X number of years after the enforcement plan has been enacted |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:21 AM Author: Multi-colored Theatre Community Account "Dems want new citizen voters as that was how their machine was built since the 19th century"
"Reps want to placate their Know-Nothing base with enforcement without citizenship."
So dems want to import immigrants to vote for them, and reps want to enforce the border without giving citizenship to illegals.
Am I missing something? One side does not seem as bad as the other here.
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:27 AM Author: Peach generalized bond public bath Is it morally just to instantly deport illegals who have been here for a certain amount of years and contributed a certain amount of money to the US economy?
There's also the GC Republicuck minority wants illegals to remain illegals and here so they can work as slave labor. That's still bad.
Why is it so bad to both enforce the border and reduce citizenship bureaucracy? |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:28 AM Author: sepia indirect expression "Is it morally fair to instantly deport illegals who have been here for a certain amount of years and contributed a certain amount of money to the US economy?"
Yes |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:29 AM Author: Peach generalized bond public bath Explain (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051955) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:32 AM Author: sepia indirect expression that's the law, it's been the law since they arrived, they had prior notice, they had a lawful procedure to reside here which they chose not to avail themselves of, and their own country would do the same thing to an American without any citizens of that country batting an eyelid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051973) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:32 AM Author: Multi-colored Theatre Community Account the consequences of their actions were known to them before they performed the actions.
sending them back to their home country is not confiscating their property, or money, or putting them in jail.
Yes, they have to uproot their lives, which is a major loss, but that loss arises directly from their choice of building their lives in the US while breaking the law. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:38 AM Author: Peach generalized bond public bath that is a fair framing of the situation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34052016) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:56 AM Author: blathering razzmatazz center place of business 1) There is a harsh punishment given to those who did break the law. Also, I think everyone (left and right) who has looked at the issue seriously admits that the current system is broken. It was more a case of the law failing people than people breaking the law out of malice. The new bill would move us towards skill-based immigration while also making it easier and more efficient to get seasonal workers for agricultural work.
2) The bill here is nothing like the blanket amnesty given by Reagan. That's a lazy trope that certain segments of the GOP threw out there so they could sit on their ass and maintain the status quo.
3) No, in order to be eligible for the pathway you have to prove that you've resided in the US. We've seen how increased immigration raids/sweeps greatly deter further influxes. Even just a public service announcement telling people not to make the journey can greatly reduce flows (Obama did this during the mini-surge of children from Central America). Flows have already been cut significantly since the early to mid-2000's. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:12 AM Author: Multi-colored Theatre Community Account (1) your response doesn't address my point. You don't even mention the injustice to those who didn't break the law. If you're standing in line and someone cuts ahead of you - you were hurt and have a moral case for redress.
Also, it is NOT a harsh punishment to people who knowingly broke the law to come to the country. They're sent back to their home country. If they have a legitimate case for asylum, make it. Children who came here when they were young are more innocent, but it's not a "punishment" to not live in America. They should blame their parents for breaking the law, not on immigration laws.
"It was more a case of the law failing people than people breaking the law out of malice."
This is absurd. People break the law out of self-interest, not malice. If you trespass on someone's property even accidentally, you shouldn't be punished, but it's not unreasonable to ask you to GTFO.
"The new bill would move us towards skill-based immigration while also making it easier and more efficient to get seasonal workers for agricultural work."
Trump's current immigration proposal does the same.
(2) "The bill here is nothing like the blanket amnesty given by Reagan. That's a lazy trope that certain segments of the GOP threw out there so they could sit on their ass and maintain the status quo."
You don't seem to realize that it doesn't matter that these people have to "pay a fine" or "learn english". Those requirements are not sufficient to address the injustice to people they cut in line in front of, and doesn't solve the moral hazard problems. If I were a poor farmer from El Salvador, and I see my relative who went to the US illegally, and now they can stay permanently, the fines and required english classes are not a deterrent for me to follow the same route.
(3) "No, in order to be eligible for the pathway you have to prove that you've resided in the US."
Illegally immigrants routinely fake documents to work and get benefits in the US. There's literally whole underground industries to support this. You're incredibly naive if you think that requirement will do anything to cut off the short term moral hazard.
"We've seen how increased immigration raids/sweeps greatly deter further influxes. Even just a public service announcement telling people not to make the journey can greatly reduce flows (Obama did this during the mini-surge of children from Central America). Flows have already been cut significantly since the early to mid-2000's."
Why would there be any more ICE raids if almost all illegal immigrants here are instantly put on a pathway to citizenship? Why would a public announcement deter crossings when you're simultaneously announcing amnesty for those already here?
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:28 AM Author: Passionate Boiling Water You cant tell if he's addressed your point or not. Yawn. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051951) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:33 AM Author: Multi-colored Theatre Community Account do the world a favor and go kill your kid. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051986) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 10:59 AM Author: sepia indirect expression Hillary is against deporting illegals and against restricting immigration. How is that different from open borders? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34051783) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 11:15 AM Author: Multi-colored Theatre Community Account because they have to pay a fine! and learn english!
but don't worry if they can't afford the fine we'll have a carve out for that (can't be too mean!), and we'll pay for their english classes (b/c it's good for everyone!) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2017 8:33 PM Author: big magenta chapel mental disorder (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3709469&forum_id=2#34055587) |