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Why are people so averse to a wealth tax?
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:37 PM Author: Vigorous market boiling water Ignoring that it would be impractical to administer, so many people seem to think a wealth tax would be "unfair." I've talked to a few progressive people who think that even with Elizabeth Warren's plan to tax 2% of assets above $50 million, "it isn't right" that you should have to pay about 10% of your wealth over x years...
What is it about the idea of a multimillionaire having to pay a tiny percent of their wealth (that is probably growing at a rate of 7%) that people see as unfair, yet they see no problem taking away 15% of the paycheck of a janitor cleaning the floors, or charging a single mom 7% of the amount she's paying for diapers?
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:47 PM Author: 180 Wrinkle Pistol The administration part is the main reason I oppose it. Other countries repealed it pretty quickly for a reason. Raise capital gains taxes instead. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607516) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 1:06 PM Author: pink alpha The idea behind the wealth tax is it can't be gamed like cap gains through delaying realization forever or otherwise offsetting with tax harvesting schemes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607612) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:53 PM Author: Federal Thirsty Spot Water Buffalo this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608079) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 1:47 PM Author: slate pervert Shut the fuck up.. People with resources can easily get around this fraud shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607784) |
Date: February 17th, 2020 12:37 PM Author: Yellow temple temporarily embarrassed millionaires in fraud america (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607449) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:38 PM Author: Smoky hot weed whacker associate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607451) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:40 PM Author: ungodly walnut milk (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607467) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:44 PM Author: awkward excitant pit wagecucks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608015) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 6:50 PM Author: Chartreuse Impertinent Set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609208) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:16 PM Author: maroon free-loading coffee pot same reason my dad always talks about needing to repeal the estate tax, "we're gonna get taxed to kingdom come" as if my grandparents are worth eight figures (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609343) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:45 PM Author: bistre black woman tbf people are fed up with the amount of small bullshit taxes on everything. gas tax, sales tax, hotel tax, airline tax. people are annoyed at seeing a tax on everything. even though a wealth tax would benefit them they are annoyed with all the bullshit taxes.
repeal regressive use taxes and add a wealth tax. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:38 PM Author: fragrant library It will go to the government where it will be wasted on kike bullshit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607453) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:39 PM Author: azure racy piazza (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607457) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:50 PM Author: aromatic duck-like ladyboy round eye (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607527) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:51 PM Author: Arrogant Space Dog Poop (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607531) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 1:00 PM Author: provocative church building hairy legs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607565) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 1:00 PM Author: Irate appetizing station electric furnace (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607568) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 1:01 PM Author: thriller pontificating office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607570) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 1:40 PM Author: Dark cracking institution clown (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607751) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:06 PM Author: Stimulating Kitchen (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609302) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:46 PM Author: bistre black woman republicans have abjectly failed at reducing spending since taking power in 2016. reducing spending is hopeless. might as well redistribute what we can and pay down the deficit even though kike bullshit, endless wars, and DEM PROGRAMS will eat up a large chunk of the new revenue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609502) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:14 AM Author: nubile jade macaca voyeur (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39611858) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:40 PM Author: Comical hall circlehead "If we taxed wealth they would just hide it or leave the country so let's not tax it at all" is probably the worst logic I've seen on this. A billionaire lying about his wealth means he risks enormous penalties and perhaps jail time, he's unlikely to take that risk to save a fairly small amount.
Some countries have like a 0.5% wealth tax, which is an amount that I think almost all people wouldn't find worth the risk of evading. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:23 PM Author: Haunting Resort ??? They would just move their money overseas while this stupid law is still working it’s way through Congress. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607925) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:48 PM Author: Effete mustard field factory reset button "if we outlawed murdering whores they would just go kill whores in bimini" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608046) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:44 PM Author: ruddy rebellious meetinghouse tank (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609485) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:47 PM Author: bistre black woman didn't people make the some arguments regarding the income tax? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609507) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:43 PM Author: Cowardly Maniacal Brethren Elastic Band It wouldn’t be bad if it only applied to cash. Problem is that most wealth is just made up numbers in the stock market. Why would someone ever take their company public if it just opened them up to needing to liquidate their holdings to pay the government based on a 1000x PE the market is making up? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607487) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:01 PM Author: Marvelous aggressive crackhouse athletic conference They can sell some stock. Easy.
"But what about lockup periods and vesting?!"
They would negotiate different agreements. They'd take out loans secured by their stock. Whatever. This is hardly an impossible dilemma.
And I have never heard anyone propose exempting privately held shares. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:11 PM Author: Cowardly Maniacal Brethren Elastic Band They can sell stock. The can also incorporate elsewhere. They can also stay private. “They can” is the stupidest argument I’ve heard for what they will do.
Private shares won’t be exempted, but you won't know what they’re worth |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:19 PM Author: Yellow temple kill urself (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607906) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:31 PM Author: Cowardly Maniacal Brethren Elastic Band Says the loser whose only contribution to this thread is a democratic talking point from six months ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607955) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:32 PM Author: Yellow temple your kid will be one of 8000 applicants for a job delivering chinese garbage from amazon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607965) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:28 PM Author: Marvelous aggressive crackhouse athletic conference Companies go public to raise more money and make investors rich. Those incentives would still exist.
And what can be done is relevant when you're making an argument based on pragmatic considerations. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:33 PM Author: Cowardly Maniacal Brethren Elastic Band Not if Bernie is taking 6% a year from the founders. That company will stay private and opaque as possible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607971) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:22 PM Author: maroon free-loading coffee pot there are actually fewer IPOs now because the powerful people can buy and sell ownership without the IPO nowadays, which has the effect of shutting out main street joe investors who don't have the capitalization to buy into the offerings
the end game for most startups these days isn't IPO but to be bought by google/fb/etc.
there's an article about it https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/11/private-inequity/570808/ |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:43 PM Author: Bipolar degenerate Jews will be hosed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607491) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:47 PM Author: rose metal love of her life stage i already pay annual taxes on real estate-- essentially a wealth tax.
the wealth tax ALREADY EXISTS for real property.
and stock is just numbers in the sky like other's said.
small companies? private companies taxed how?
also you say its "impractical to administer"
who is ACTUALLY in favor of doing this? |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:06 PM Author: Marvelous aggressive crackhouse athletic conference "stock is just numbers in the sky like other's said."
Numbers that can be converted to cash almost immediately in the case of publicly traded stocks. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:13 PM Author: Bossy floppy church prole I'll be curious to see how law firms are valued for the purposes of taxation. I know that a year's gross is sometimes used as a shorthand for calculating the value of a company, and if that were the case, government is going to have a field day taxing the shitballs out of law firm partnership shares.
EDIT: you fucking stupid cocksucking morons thinking that this sort of tax will not fuck all sorts of people. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:31 PM Author: Marvelous aggressive crackhouse athletic conference I have no idea what valuation methods they'd use. But I'd say the most common way of quickly valuing a small firm would be applying a small multiplier to the profit. And given that firms generally don't have many hard assets, it would likely function pretty close to an additional income tax. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607957) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 10:48 PM Author: bateful jewess university Partnership is actually extremely benefitically valued IIRC. Mitt Romney put Bain Capital partnership shares in his Roth IRA at a value of $0 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610431) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:54 PM Author: rose metal love of her life stage just liquidate 0.5% of the stock market every year for taxes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608087) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 12:59 PM Author: Adventurous Orchestra Pit 1. Taxes will go to government who will piss the money away.
2. It will start at the really rich, but then, after the precedent is established, will continuously be adjusted downward until it encompasses most people |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 3:54 PM Author: Odious amber address (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608408) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 10:49 PM Author: bateful jewess university #2 is the CR: income taxes were sold to the public with exactly the same logic, and now apply to a majority of the country. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610435) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 4:42 AM Author: Trip liquid oxygen generalized bond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39611259) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 6:30 AM Author: chestnut location french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39611325) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 1:04 PM Author: pink alpha Who is averse? I'm pretty sure a solid majority would support it. And the ones who don't will be fed a line about how rich people will relocate out of the country if they have to pay an extra 2 percent tax (nevermind that they already pay a tax rate way lower than an average worker bee) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607593) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 6:48 PM Author: Ultramarine Ticket Booth polls show most americans support a wealth tax (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609199) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 6:55 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner Mostly because most Americans don't understand that it won't hit just the super-rich for long. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609241) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 1:05 PM Author: provocative church building hairy legs Why are we looking to add more administrative complexity to the tax code? Wealth assessment would be a nightmare. It makes more sense to raise capital gains or income taxes. Or even better, just stop spending money on worthless shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607602) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 1:08 PM Author: Offensive heady sneaky criminal i think it’s retarded and stupid but not really unfair. obviously the gains from globalization have mostly gone to white collar professionals that own stock.
i’d rather not have bezos dumping a fuckton of amazon stock every year while it sits in my portfolio. also i think wealth inequality is stupid to worry about. quality of life of lower/middle class people matters far more imo |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:14 PM Author: coiffed menage becky A wealth tax is being proposed to improve the quality of life of lower/middle class people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607895) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:19 PM Author: Offensive heady sneaky criminal By stupid people, yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607905) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:20 PM Author: Bossy floppy church prole laughable (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607910) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:47 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609503) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 9:26 PM Author: Shaky home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610013) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:08 PM Author: Bossy floppy church prole Just do multiple rounds of taxation on the same money you earn, no big deal.
Also, real talk, a decent reason to oppose this is that it's being sold as a tax on "the rich" which means that, sooner or later, it will be hitting the UMC. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:13 PM Author: Marvelous aggressive crackhouse athletic conference Multiple taxation is a bad anti-taxation argument.
What significance attaches specifically to the "multiple" part? None.
Amounts matter. Compliance burdens matter. Intelligibility matters. Incentives matter.
But multiplicity itself? Doesn't matter. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:23 PM Author: Bossy floppy church prole You don't think that creating incentives against saving/ wealth creation could have negative effects? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607923) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:33 PM Author: Marvelous aggressive crackhouse athletic conference Sure. I don't know whether it would be net negative for society. That would depend on the specifics. But, yes, reducing the value of wealth, all else equal, reduces the desirability of having and creating wealth. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607970) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:26 PM Author: Haunting Resort Why not just let the government cachet anyone they don’t like, seize all of their property and money, and toss it to the savage, throbbing, great unwashed mob? What could go wrong? Never in history has a government regretted liquidating it’s elite class, and putting in power a bunch of cronies of the ruling party.
Except the Roman Republic —> Roman Empire, Russia —> USSR, Cuba —> Fidel’s Cuba, etc etc etc etc.
What you don’t understand is that the leftists are a cancer. You must snuff it out at the earliest possible instant. You can or give an INCH or it will metastasize and kill you. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:27 PM Author: coiffed menage becky Explain like im a 5 year old why taxing very rich billionaires is bad? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607940) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:29 PM Author: Haunting Resort Today they tax billionaires, tomorrow it will be millionaires, then it will be anyone who can afford shoes or a coat. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607948) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:30 PM Author: Yellow temple Argentina: It is named Impuesto a los Bienes Personales, on assets above ARS 800,000 (approx. US$21,246.65), the annual rates are 0.75% for 2016, 0.50% for 2017, 0.25% in 2018, and they raised it in 2019 to 0.75%. Canada: British Columbia has recently implemented a tax on personal homes. The tax is in addition to regular property tax and begins at homes worth more than $3 million Canadian (approx. US$2,307,692.31). The tax is 0.2% on the first million above the $3 million and 0.4% on any value above that. No recognition of mortgages, lien, or taxes due is taken into account. France: Until 2017, there was a solidarity tax on wealth on any net assets above €800,000 for those with total net worth of €1,300,000 or more. Marginal rates ranged from 0.5% to 1.5%.[3] In 2007, it collected €4.07 billion, accounting for 1.4% of total revenue.[4] From 2018 onwards, it has been replaced by a wealth tax on real estate, exonerating all financial assets.[5] Spain: There is a tax called Patrimonio. The tax rate is progressive, from 0.2 to 3.75% of net assets above the threshold of €700,000 after €300,000 primary residence allowance.[6] The exact amount varies between provinces. Netherlands: There is a tax called vermogensrendementheffing. Although its name (wealth yield tax) suggests that it is a tax on the yield of wealth, it qualifies as a wealth tax, since the actual yield (whether positive or negative) is not taken into account in its calculation. Up to and including 2016, the rate was fixed at 1.2% (30% taxation over an assumed yield of 4%). From the fiscal year of 2017 onwards, the tax rate progresses with wealth. See Income tax in the Netherlands. In addition to the vermogensrendementheffing, owners of real estate pay a tax called onroerendezaakbelasting, which is based on the estimated value of the real estate they own. This is a local tax, levied by the city council where the property is located. Norway: 0.7% (municipal) and 0.15% (national) a total of 0.85% levied on net assets exceeding 1,500,000 kr (approx. US$181,378.48) as of 2019.[7] For tax purposes, the value of the primary residence is valued to 25% of the market value, secondary residences to 90% of the market value, while working capital such as commercial real estate, stocks, and stock funds are valued at 75% of the market value.[8] The Conservative Party and Progress Party in the current government and the Liberal Party have stated that they aim to reduce and eventually eliminate the wealth tax.[9] Switzerland: A progressive wealth tax that varies by residence location. Most cantons have no wealth tax for individual net worth less than CHF 100,000 (approx. US$102,040.82) and progressively raise the tax rate on net assets with a top rate ranging from 0.13% to 0.94% depending on canton and municipality of residence.[10] Wealth tax is levied against worldwide assets of Swiss residents, but it is not levied against assets in Switzerland held by non-residents.[10][11] Italy: Two wealth taxes are imposed. One, IVIE, is a 0.76% tax imposed on real assets held outside Italy. The values of such assets are determined by purchase price or current market value. Property taxes paid in the country where the real estate exists can offset IVIE. Another tax, IVAFE, is 0.20% and is levied on all financial assets located outside the country, including, so far as the language seems to imply, individual pension schemes such as 401(k)s and IRAs in the US.[12] |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:38 PM Author: coiffed menage becky Does this refute or support his argument? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607986) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:43 PM Author: Yellow temple refutes, obviously. it's just hysterics. apparently for xo reptiles, only they can use "they can" as a valid rebuttal. none of the nations i mentioned have gone the way of cuba or fucking soviet russia because they imposed a tax on certain forms of wealth. it's absurd. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608008) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:48 PM Author: coiffed menage becky Seems like these taxes are imposed on MC//UMC folks as well (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608048) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:50 PM Author: Yellow temple not true for like half of those countries
and even if it was true it's such a miniscule percentage that it disproportionately likely affects the truly wealthy
and none of them turned into soviet russia or cuba |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 3:04 PM Author: Haunting Resort Except for Soviet Russia and Cuba (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608143) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:11 PM Author: Yellow temple yeah dumbass all it took was a wealth tax lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609319) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:52 PM Author: bistre black woman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609541) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 10:16 PM Author: Federal Thirsty Spot Water Buffalo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610251) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 6:54 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner tcr. I'm fine with certain efforts to target the rich with existing taxes like the estate tax. Whenever there's a new tax proposal like the "wealth tax" I'm reminded of how the income tax got started and the promise that it would hit only the very rich. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609238) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 8:48 PM Author: Haunting Resort (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609820) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:05 PM Author: Dark cracking institution clown (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39615358) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:31 PM Author: Yellow temple because apparently the government would waste the money and the billionaires aren't doing that already (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39607956) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:50 PM Author: Haunting Resort Yes, just take money from productive members of society and spend it on hypodermic needles for junkies and sex change ops for trannies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608064) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:52 PM Author: stirring theater stage im not (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608072) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 2:58 PM Author: Federal Thirsty Spot Water Buffalo the only LOGICAL argument people are making in here against another tax, is that the government is STOOPID
fine, i can buy that.
but then we should cut all taxes for the single mothers and janitors in the OP scenario. u can keep ur current tax rate for billionaires, and make it so everyone who is poor pays $0.
cut programs and defense spending and figure it out but the answer isn't to keep the current shitty system that has produced the most inequality and have vs. have nots in the history of 'murica
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Date: February 17th, 2020 3:05 PM Author: Haunting Resort Everyone who is poor already does pay $0 you idiot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608147) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 3:06 PM Author: Haunting Resort How about we force everyone who is a net drain on society to live in a work camp in Alaska, and prohibit them from ever having children. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608153) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 4:22 PM Author: magenta gaping property give as much of your money as you want to losers. leave mine the fuck alone. xoxohth. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39608534) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 6:48 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner "but then we should cut all taxes for the single mothers and janitors in the OP scenario. u can keep ur current tax rate for billionaires, and make it so everyone who is poor pays $0."
A) They already pay zero
B) In general, it is pretty bad to have people that truly pay zero. People who pay zero always vote for more spending because they're not paying for it anyway |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:54 PM Author: bistre black woman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609545) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 9:24 PM Author: Wine Whorehouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610002) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 9:48 PM Author: mind-boggling background story hell Poors should pay more taxes, idiot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610126) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 6:51 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner 1) A new tax that would require new methods of calculation, new enforcement, new loopholes, etc.
2) There are already taxes that could accomplish similar things that aren't utilized well. The top one is the estate tax - which is the ideal implementation of the wealth tax.
3) If you really want to hit rich people at the point of earnings then you can focus on shit like cap gains and such. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 6:54 PM Author: multi-colored haunted graveyard native I support it. Just wish we could mandate that all of it goes towards paying off the national debt. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609232) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:11 PM Author: Offensive heady sneaky criminal Yes in a world of near negative interest rates and a historically wide gap between the US and everyone else’s economy. Now is the time to fret about the NATIONAL DEBT
this is the most retarded meme in all of politics. We don’t have nearly enough debt imo. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:13 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner lol, how much debt do you consider to be ideal? And what do you think we should spend the cash on? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609328) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:17 PM Author: Offensive heady sneaky criminal Remember we pay the interest in our own money and can refinance into perpetuity. We have no FX risk like what triggered the Russian/Asian financial crises.
With treasury yields this low it seems like a massive scandal that we’re not borrowing more. Where the fuck else will the Chinese put their money?
I’d plow it all into infrastructure. Roads, airports, trains, bridges, etc |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:26 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner "Roads, airports, trains, bridges, etc"
Let's say we did that. What does that get us? For example, this is huge for a place like China because they have 1.4 billion people many of which aren't connected and therefore can't fully participate in economic activity. Is that really a problem for the US? I don't think it is. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:39 PM Author: Offensive heady sneaky criminal I think people universally acknowledge that the United States has third world infrastructure. I’m reminded of this everytime I ride the subway.
This would drive economic growth basically funded by foreign investors |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:41 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner "This would drive economic growth basically funded by foreign investors"
Explain how. The problem with the subway is the combo of wasteful spending and terrible people (bad culture, bums, no law enforcement, etc.). If you spent billions more it'll still suck and not be up to Asian standards. |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 9:54 PM Author: Offensive heady sneaky criminal the bums don’t help but they’re not the reason everything is garbage
i’d build a lot more public housing to get the disgusting bums away from everyone |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 9:55 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner Not sure if serious. Public housing is actually the problem. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610155) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 9:22 PM Author: Comical hall circlehead Will the debt magically shrink if/when interest rates increase? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609996) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:33 AM Author: Offensive heady sneaky criminal I think treasury yields (ie the federal cost to borrow) will generally track whatever the the fed wants it to be.
The chances of another country challenging the us for reserve currency status or supplier of risk free bonds are as lower than ever |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 10:59 PM Author: Bossy floppy church prole If this is true then what is the necessity for new taxes? Kind of seems it would be better to lower taxes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610497) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 11:03 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610521) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 1:24 PM Author: Offensive heady sneaky criminal 💡 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612867) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:14 PM Author: maize boyish senate At the very least it should stop the problem from getting worse. The status quo at 110% GDP isn't good, but without intervention the national debt is heading towards 150% because of Trump tax cuts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609332) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:22 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner Your fellow shitlib above thinks it is nbd. Your response? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609377) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:23 PM Author: Offensive heady sneaky criminal I think a wealth tax is retarded though. Not a shitlib (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609382) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 6:58 PM Author: Ultramarine Ticket Booth "...74 percent of registered voters back an annual 2 percent tax on people with assets over $50 million, and a 3 percent tax on people with assets in excess of $1 billion. "
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/428747-new-poll-americans-overwhelmingly-support-taxing-the-wealth-of |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 11:00 PM Author: Bossy floppy church prole I'm shocked that people support taxing other people (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610504) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 11:03 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610522) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 1:44 AM Author: Ultramarine Ticket Booth do you think that if you asked women/men about taxing the other sex, that you would have such a response? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39611084) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 6:51 PM Author: Cowardly Maniacal Brethren Elastic Band The forever alone ones, yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39614288) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:09 PM Author: maize boyish senate I don't really care about the debate on what a fair tax on the rich is. The goal should be to restore the mass middle class society. To do that public university education needs to be almost free and healthcare very low cost for everyone. Medicare for All alone will cost about $2 trillion per year. There's no way to fund all of this without a wealth tax. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609314) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:15 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner So people graduate from colleges where they spent 4 years partying and studying bullshit to an economy with no demand for their lib arts/social sciences background. Now they have no debt (the taxpayers covered that) but still no future, jobs, etc. But now they were encouraged even more to do that. How does that make sense? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609342) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:18 PM Author: maize boyish senate You exaggerate a lot. Just because many grads have jobs starting out of college that won't require a college education doesn't mean there's no future for their degrees in the labor force. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39609353) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 7:24 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner I'm not exaggerating.
We need to get back to an understanding of why people go to college and why the public should fund it. It is specifically so these people can learn useful things that will get them jobs. Not everyone needs to go to college. Those that go to college should either be learning something useful or paying their own way.
"Just because many grads have jobs starting out of college that won't require a college education doesn't mean there's no future for their degrees in the labor force."
I'm not sure what this means. Just because they got a degree in poli sci and got a job driving an Uber doesn't mean that someday they won't become a Starbucks manager, not that this requires a college degree either or what? |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 10:42 PM Author: mind-boggling background story hell Lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39610389) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 4:41 AM Author: maize boyish senate Somebody with an IQ 110 is not going to work at Starbucks for years without end. Still they aren't bright enough and needed the 4 more years of education to improve their employability even if it was liberal arts. Too much of this discussion is about what ought to be the cultural environment and attitude towards college. That's another discussion. I'm talking about what should happen within the realm of possibilities. Your average 110 IQ kid is definitely going to college. It will take decades to change the everyone go to college mindset if ever. That kid and cohorts in the whole generation shouldn't have to graduate with tens of thousands of dollars in debt. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39611258) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:59 AM Author: zippy rambunctious corner "Somebody with an IQ 110 is not going to work at Starbucks for years without end."
The ideal result for a 110 IQ person is managing a Starbucks. They don't need college for that. They DEFINITELY don't need a lib arts/social sciences degree from a college. If you want to argue for a 2 year community college and a degree in business then we can talk about that, but that's not what people are talking about now.
Basically, useless programs at universities should be gutted. The only people who should be allowed to "major" in them should be people identified as potential future academics in that area. Other program population should correspond to job prospects. |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 12:41 PM Author: maize boyish senate You keep on bringing up what you think the cultural environmental and attitude towards a university education ought to be. That's not the discussion in this thread. Bad idea or good idea, the vast majority of kids with 110 IQs are going to get a college education because of everyone tells them to go to college. The whole current college generation made up mostly of 110 IQ types should not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in debt at graduation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612597) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 12:43 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner If we're talking about changes to the system then this is the conversation we should be having, not just throwing billions at a stupid problem that the government created in the first place (by throwing billions at this in the first place). 110 IQ people should not be going to college and majoring in poli sci at taxpayer expense. Period. Once you realize this, the solutions to the problem start to fall into place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612614) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 1:34 PM Author: maize boyish senate Going to college is deeply entrenched. Any major change would take decades of deprogramming. That's a separate discussion that I find pointless within this thread. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612901) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 9:52 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner No, we should reject any discussion on student loans or any other college funding without this subject. The deprogramming needs to begin now and not later. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39615309) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:50 PM Author: Offensive heady sneaky criminal i agree with the guy arguing with you. deeply entrenched views can blow my dick slowly if that’s why people need to finance others’ socially worthless poli sco degrees (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39615602) |
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Date: February 17th, 2020 11:00 PM Author: bateful jewess university Here's a simple way to do so without a wealth tax:
- Heavily graduated income tax rates, treat capital gains as income: Bezo's $4B stock sale would have something like a 70% top marginal rate
- Zero percent corporate tax rates, but the new rule applies US individual graduated tax rates to all investors domestically and abroad: foreigners no longer get to enjoy US capital appreciation for free
- Uncap 401ks, allow tax free savings in high amounts, encourage companies to fill them with tax-free stock, and allow workers to borrow against the 401k for home purchases and other big items
- 15% tax on consumption (VAT), walked back for certain items (this subsidizes exports)
Basically, heavily taxing the individuals who make up the recipients of corporate largesse and reducing the value (post tax cashflows) of capital so long as it is so unequally distributed. |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 1:19 AM Author: coiffed menage becky 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39611028) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 1:55 AM Author: Comical hall circlehead Unrealized capital gains are basically a tax haven that wealthy people like Buffett have leveraged to amass billions, so how about a capital gains tax adjustment of this type: if you make an investment in year 1 and realize a gain in year 10, you pay an adjusted tax that is higher to account for the years of "unpaid value"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39611103) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 4:42 AM Author: maize boyish senate Will that generate 2.5 trillion more in revenue? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39611261) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 5:10 AM Author: Apoplectic Dull Center (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39611278) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 1:41 AM Author: Exciting Foreskin So just the rich huh? Kinda like how you sold the income tax? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39611078) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 7:04 AM Author: chestnut location french chef How about for starters it's not like the mega rich are keeping it under a mattress, it's obviously in banks / investments etc, and there's at least competitive and corrective mechanisms for not using people's money wisely in the private sector, vs feeding bureaucratic bloat and inefficiency.
It's hilariously difficult to administer - oh how convenient, now we all have to start itemizing our wealth to prove we don't meet that threshold, I'm sure that's just for our own benefit.
Wealth taxes are comically distortionary - capital flight, incentivizing frivolous spending on leisure / entertainment over asset accumulation, etc. To avoid some of the major problems with it, the rate is so low it doesn't even add meaningful amount to govt revenue.
But the distortions are extreme - now you have employment shifting from productive work to rent-seeking in what's basically an entire new industry that pops up in helping people contest valuations and help the rich game th wealth tax, of course the govt side will also bloat w/ bureaucrats fighting on the other side but with less competence.
How long do you give before they say oh let's just lower the threshold oh what a convenience everyone is already itemizing their wealth to prove they're below the threshold.....
Also lots of evidence from Europe - results range from massive failures of capital flight e.g. France lost an absurdly high proportion of their millionaires in like 10 years, tens of thousands of millionaires in a short time..., to completely ineffective while being a distortionary waste.....
If you'd rather bureaucrats have that money to waste on incompetent bloat and useless budget justifications than there are far more efficient ways to tax the wealthy than the wealth tax.....
Edit: also underestimating all the different types of weird shit the super wealthy own that we don't think of that's absurdly difficult to value, paintings, classic cars / historical shit / weird trendy shit that's over-priced, so the real cost in distortions via bureaucratic system necessary to collect these taxes heavily eat into the revenue they generate for govt, oh but they don't pay those costs either so probly cool w/ them |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 6:48 PM Author: Cowardly Maniacal Brethren Elastic Band All fair (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39614273) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:17 PM Author: Dark cracking institution clown (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39615432) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:51 PM Author: Comical hall circlehead bureaucratic waste is an argument against taxes, not a wealth tax specifically
something went horribly wrong the past 30 years though in terms of wealth inequality, mega-billionaires who don't pay taxes and buy up our cities but I guess the horse is out of the barn, nothing we can do |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 8:00 AM Author: Soul-stirring splenetic heaven It's bad policy. The countries that have tried it have generally dropped it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39611432) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 9:16 AM Author: Rusted Theater Deer Antler calculating and collecting it seems like a huge pain in the ass for not that much tax revenue.
i'm sure waste of space govt bureaucrats and jewfuck lawyers/accountants are all for it. |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:18 AM Author: Dashing unholy sanctuary ur great-grandparents immigrated to the united states & purchased a scrap of land off the california coast, nothing but rock and sand but a pleasant spot they got for cheap. they're dead that "pleasant spot" is where u take ur kids fishing and camping every summer oops washington DC says you've got a net worth of $5 million but it's cool it's just a 1% wealth tax just pony up $50,000 in cash each year |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 11:43 AM Author: Comical hall circlehead Wealth tax should be progressive and principally target extremely wealthy people who distort society with their fortunes. I think 1% is too high on $5 million fortunes. Switzerland does fine with wealth taxes ranging between approx. 0.2 and 0.8%.
In any case, with regards to your land example, it's rather easy to get a mortgage or line of credit from the bank to tap the equity without being forced to sell it. |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:54 AM Author: Chartreuse Impertinent Set One valid criticism is that it doesn't seem punishing enough. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612017) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 11:11 AM Author: ruddy rebellious meetinghouse tank (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612115) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:56 AM Author: Spruce Selfie Why tax money that has already been taxed???? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612023) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 11:00 AM Author: zippy rambunctious corner This is actually the worst argument, mostly because all money is taxed a bunch of times. You pay your property taxes, your sales taxes, etc. with post-tax dollars. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612041) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 11:03 AM Author: Spruce Selfie Those are actual purchases/transactions in which the person is receiving something of value. However, these wealth taxes are just pulled out of thin air. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612049) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 6:42 PM Author: Marvelous aggressive crackhouse athletic conference First, I don't see why receipt of value in an exchange matters.
Second, we have taxes that don't require any exchange (e.g., property and registration taxes).
Third, I don't see any value in talking about the number of times money has been taxed. Incentives, distortions, amounts, compliance costs, fairness, outcomes, and all that matter. But the number of times money is taxed? Doesn't matter. |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 11:03 AM Author: Aphrodisiac self-centered reading party quadroon property tax is tied to maintenance of property, costs of school in that area, etc.
sales tax is based on a new transaction
a wealth tax is based no nothing new, just existence. that's fucked up. |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 11:08 AM Author: zippy rambunctious corner I don't see why it is more "fucked up" to tax a billionaire again than to increase taxes on your average middle-class/UMC person. My preferred tax of the estate tax is definitely taxing "already taxed money." I'm not going to cry for the RSFs and UJTPs of the world getting the money they didn't earn reduced via estate tax. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612090) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 11:10 AM Author: disgusting philosopher-king You MAF that the wealth tax will never apply to you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612105) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 11:13 AM Author: zippy rambunctious corner Totally fine with it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612117) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 1:47 PM Author: disgusting philosopher-king It makes you MAF you prole as fuck loser (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612959) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 5:24 PM Author: zippy rambunctious corner Sup RSF (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39613929) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 11:11 AM Author: ruddy rebellious meetinghouse tank (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39612110) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:00 PM Author: orchid hairless faggot firefighter better to just tax capital gains when you cash out and estates (obviously a one time event and it already takes years in complex cases). let people defer taxation for 30 years big deal the government will get it eventually.
the IRS could focus on ending the loopholes that allow transfers of property with option value to be deemed $0 value like GRATs and carried interest. or call all gifts and transfers income and tax at normal rates. |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:46 PM Author: Comical hall circlehead Deferred taxation through unrealized capital gains is a huge luxury that rich people access alone because a) they get almost all the capital gains in the first place and b) they have enough savvy to know how to keep it unrealized (poorer people are more likely to sell stock to pay expenses along the way). There should at least be a lookback as to how long it took to realize the gain and prorate it for how many years passed (longer duration of the investment = more taxation to "make up" for the deferral). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39615577) |
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Date: February 18th, 2020 10:57 PM Author: Haunting Resort If the US govt just printed $20 trillion overnight and put it in the US treasury we would end up at the same place. Seems a much easier option. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4447161&forum_id=2#39615638) |