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lawfirmaddict presents the V100

I don't want to give the stats for the regions yet, because ...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/28/06
How's Covington & Burling data?
cobalt supple becky
  07/28/06
I'm going to kill some people soon
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/28/06
Let me give you the data for the Baker Botts offices you are...
motley stag film
  07/28/06
awesome, this is a big help, esp. for the Texas firms, thank...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/28/06
You need to tell me about the BB summer program and your imp...
chrome hell old irish cottage
  07/28/06
Oh sure. I actually have free-time to do that now. I just fi...
motley stag film
  07/28/06
Alright, I have a thread, ask me whatever you want: http:...
motley stag film
  07/28/06
wait, do you go to chicago? there's no one from chicago list...
Sienna Histrionic Death Wish Boltzmann
  07/28/06
I'm at the Houston office (there's two of us here). We get a...
motley stag film
  07/28/06
anyone else this afternoon?
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/28/06
Goodwin Procter is now up
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/28/06
come on, a couple more?
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/28/06
YOUR BLOG SHOULD BE TURNED INTO A BOOK AND THEN INTO A TV SH...
Exciting pistol brunch
  07/28/06
I'm in talks with VH1, now that I have a "top 100"...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/28/06
PLEASE HIRE ME AS THE ATTEMPTING TO BE FUNNY YET PAINFUL TO ...
Exciting pistol brunch
  07/28/06
Crowell & Moring DC 18 Penn' 3, Georgetown 2, U Mi...
Boyish Area Skinny Woman
  07/28/06
you wouldn't happen to have Covington's stats, would you...?...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/28/06
unfortunately no. i'm sorry.
Boyish Area Skinny Woman
  07/28/06
61 SUMMERS 16 HARVARD 9 YALE 11 COLUMBIA 6 NYU 4 GTOW...
Exciting pistol brunch
  07/28/06
...
bipolar mint hall fortuitous meteor
  07/30/06
...
floppy crackhouse
  07/30/06
YOU WOULD THINK THE "1 COOLEY" ON THE LIST WOULD M...
Exciting pistol brunch
  07/30/06
...
walnut idiot preventive strike
  07/31/06
anything else?
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/30/06
Gtown is missing from Shearman & Sterling's breakdown of...
Low-t underhanded milk field
  07/30/06
thanks, I'm an idiot. any others?
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/30/06
Sidley Chicago has two students from Southern Univ.
primrose keepsake machete rigor
  07/30/06
WHAT!!! that's SAD! fucking AA, what a joke.
dashing box office therapy
  07/30/06
It's Perkins Coie, not Perkins Cole.
floppy crackhouse
  07/30/06
I'm making some changes, any more?
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/30/06
-fixed Coie -e-mailed someone who may be able to help with ...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/31/06
...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/31/06
...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  07/31/06
...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/01/06
So should I alter the stats to reflect the new Vault ranking...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/01/06
Question for you: Were there any surprises personally as ...
Vivacious beta double fault den
  08/01/06
Some because of overall placement, some because of regional ...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/01/06
cool thanks
Vivacious beta double fault den
  08/01/06
what about ND were you impressed with?
erotic hairraiser persian weed whacker
  08/01/06
Diversity in firm placement--it didn't fare as well in DC or...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/01/06
It's more accurate to leave it as is because those were the ...
spectacular brass corner turdskin
  08/01/06
that's what I figured I'd do. it's just sad that I won't ge...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/01/06
...
Laughsome Up-to-no-good Bawdyhouse
  08/01/06
Anything I can do for you? I know, stats for Boston, even l...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/01/06
...
Laughsome Up-to-no-good Bawdyhouse
  08/01/06
hmm, how about % in the Vault 5? 1 Yale 24.1% 4 Columbia...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/01/06
...
Laughsome Up-to-no-good Bawdyhouse
  08/01/06
I got nothin'
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/01/06
Your "unknown" Debevoise summer is from NYU. NYU h...
Dead Big Jew Theater Stage
  08/01/06
nice, thanks, I've got a couple of other changes to make sho...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/01/06
WOW. THAT PLACE MUST BE FESTERING.
Exciting pistol brunch
  08/01/06
Huh?
Dead Big Jew Theater Stage
  08/01/06
You're going to need to adjust your page in light of the new...
Exciting pistol brunch
  08/01/06
http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&for...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/01/06
Squire Sanders: http://www.ssd.com/files/tbl_s10News/FileUpl...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/01/06
come on, Covington summers have got to be around somewhere
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/02/06
Mostly-helpful DLA Piper stats: http://www.dlapiper.com/us/c...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/02/06
Greenberg breakdown (WITH PICTURES): http://www.gtlaw.com/re...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/02/06
...covington summers, where are you...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/02/06
All Vinson now available: http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/...
Vibrant Principal's Office Regret
  08/05/06


Poast new message in this thread





Date: July 28th, 2006 4:56 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

I don't want to give the stats for the regions yet, because there are some large gaps at the bottom of the Vault chart. Check out http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com and make sure there aren't any big errors. If you can contribute, either post here or post anonymously there. Feel free to discuss here, and I'll follow up shortly with some statistics as everyone enters OCI season, if we can fill in some more stats. thanks

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6324393)





Date: July 28th, 2006 5:05 PM
Author: cobalt supple becky

How's Covington & Burling data?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6324484)





Date: July 28th, 2006 5:09 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

I'm going to kill some people soon

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6324512)





Date: July 28th, 2006 5:14 PM
Author: motley stag film

Let me give you the data for the Baker Botts offices you are missing:

Austin

UT: 12

Houston: 2

Cornell: 1

------

Dallas

Cornell: 2

Columbia: 1

Stanford: 2

Mich: 2

UT: 13

Washington: 1

Duke: 2

SMU: 4

Pepperdine: 1

UVa: 2

Oklahoma: 2

Tech: 1

Tulane: 1

NYU: 1

GULC: 1

W&L: 1

------

NYC

NYU: 2

UT: 1

Columbia: 2

Boston College: 1

Fordham: 1

-----

DC

UVa: 5

Columbia: 1

GULC: 3

Stanford: 1

Vanderbilt: 1

Harvard: 4

Howard: 1

Duke: 1

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6324547)





Date: July 28th, 2006 5:16 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

awesome, this is a big help, esp. for the Texas firms, thanks

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6324557)





Date: July 28th, 2006 5:27 PM
Author: chrome hell old irish cottage

You need to tell me about the BB summer program and your impressions about the firm sometime.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6324632)





Date: July 28th, 2006 5:28 PM
Author: motley stag film

Oh sure. I actually have free-time to do that now. I just finished my big memo. I'll start another thread.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6324647)





Date: July 28th, 2006 5:31 PM
Author: motley stag film

Alright, I have a thread, ask me whatever you want:

http://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=463634&mc=1&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6324679)





Date: July 28th, 2006 6:21 PM
Author: Sienna Histrionic Death Wish Boltzmann

wait, do you go to chicago? there's no one from chicago listed in those numbers

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6325246)





Date: July 28th, 2006 6:23 PM
Author: motley stag film

I'm at the Houston office (there's two of us here). We get a book with a list of interns at all offices, which is where I pulled the Dallas/Austin/NYC/DC numbers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6325274)





Date: July 28th, 2006 5:46 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

anyone else this afternoon?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6324839)





Date: July 28th, 2006 6:07 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

Goodwin Procter is now up

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6325080)





Date: July 28th, 2006 6:19 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

come on, a couple more?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6325220)





Date: July 28th, 2006 6:26 PM
Author: Exciting pistol brunch

YOUR BLOG SHOULD BE TURNED INTO A BOOK AND THEN INTO A TV SHOW. THE RATINGS WILL BE PHENOMENAL.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6325308)





Date: July 28th, 2006 6:27 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

I'm in talks with VH1, now that I have a "top 100" list. I think William Shatner will host it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6325316)





Date: July 28th, 2006 6:28 PM
Author: Exciting pistol brunch

PLEASE HIRE ME AS THE ATTEMPTING TO BE FUNNY YET PAINFUL TO WATCH COMMENTATOR.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6325329)





Date: July 28th, 2006 6:27 PM
Author: Boyish Area Skinny Woman

Crowell & Moring

DC 18

Penn' 3, Georgetown 2, U Michigan 2, Maryland 2, Harvard, American, NYU, Pitt, Duke, Emory, Stanford, GWU, Boalt each 1

CA 4

Harvard, USC, Notre Dame, Hastings each 1

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6325319)





Date: July 28th, 2006 6:29 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

you wouldn't happen to have Covington's stats, would you...? just hoping

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6325346)





Date: July 28th, 2006 6:32 PM
Author: Boyish Area Skinny Woman

unfortunately no. i'm sorry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6325365)





Date: July 28th, 2006 6:36 PM
Author: Exciting pistol brunch

61 SUMMERS

16 HARVARD

9 YALE

11 COLUMBIA

6 NYU

4 GTOWN

4 UVA

4 STANFORD

3 GW

3 AMERICAN

1 COOLEY

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6325411)





Date: July 30th, 2006 1:48 PM
Author: bipolar mint hall fortuitous meteor
Subject: totally made up, there's at least 4 from michigan



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6336616)





Date: July 30th, 2006 1:53 PM
Author: floppy crackhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6336634)





Date: July 30th, 2006 3:06 PM
Author: Exciting pistol brunch

YOU WOULD THINK THE "1 COOLEY" ON THE LIST WOULD MAKE IT OBVIOUS THAT THIS WAS BOGUS. GOOD JOB POINTING OUT THE OBVIOUS.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6337097)





Date: July 31st, 2006 10:24 AM
Author: walnut idiot preventive strike



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6342995)





Date: July 30th, 2006 9:18 AM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

anything else?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6335766)





Date: July 30th, 2006 10:29 AM
Author: Low-t underhanded milk field

Gtown is missing from Shearman & Sterling's breakdown of global summer class by school. Gtown has at least 10+...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6335908)





Date: July 30th, 2006 12:34 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

thanks, I'm an idiot. any others?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6336260)





Date: July 30th, 2006 1:32 PM
Author: primrose keepsake machete rigor

Sidley Chicago has two students from Southern Univ.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6336529)





Date: July 30th, 2006 1:42 PM
Author: dashing box office therapy

WHAT!!! that's SAD!

fucking AA, what a joke.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6336581)





Date: July 30th, 2006 1:54 PM
Author: floppy crackhouse

It's Perkins Coie, not Perkins Cole.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6336639)





Date: July 30th, 2006 11:11 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

I'm making some changes, any more?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6340399)





Date: July 31st, 2006 9:10 AM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

-fixed Coie

-e-mailed someone who may be able to help with Freshfield

-added non-NYC Cadwalder (I think that's accurate)

-two Southern to Sidley, leaving Sidley Chicago's unknown at 9

-added 10 to Shearman global

more? Keep them coming

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6342858)





Date: July 31st, 2006 2:33 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6345138)





Date: July 31st, 2006 5:42 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6347206)





Date: August 1st, 2006 8:01 AM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6351704)





Date: August 1st, 2006 2:21 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

So should I alter the stats to reflect the new Vault rankings? Or is it more accurate to show which firms took SAs based on their previous ranking?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6353655)





Date: August 1st, 2006 2:22 PM
Author: Vivacious beta double fault den

Question for you:

Were there any surprises personally as you were compiling this data so far? In terms of schools you thought would place better, and school that placed better than you thought?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6353664)





Date: August 1st, 2006 2:29 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

Some because of overall placement, some because of regional placement. I was impressed with Columbia, Michigan, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Illinois, Wake Forest, Fordham, Houston, and Howard, all for different reasons. I was disappointed by Minnesota, WUSTL, W&L, W&M, and George Mason, again all for different reasons.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6353722)





Date: August 1st, 2006 2:30 PM
Author: Vivacious beta double fault den

cool thanks

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6353737)





Date: August 1st, 2006 2:32 PM
Author: erotic hairraiser persian weed whacker

what about ND were you impressed with?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6353746)





Date: August 1st, 2006 2:36 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

Diversity in firm placement--it didn't fare as well in DC or CA, but it did well in TX and NYC, given the small samples from TX in particular.

Edit, in terms of diversity, I was most impressed with Michigan's diversity.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6353774)





Date: August 1st, 2006 5:05 PM
Author: spectacular brass corner turdskin

It's more accurate to leave it as is because those were the rankings the SAs chose the firms with.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6354986)





Date: August 1st, 2006 5:20 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

that's what I figured I'd do. it's just sad that I won't get some good stats up until when the new Vault rankings come out.

of course, that and I'm still waiting for Covington

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6355113)





Date: August 1st, 2006 3:10 PM
Author: Laughsome Up-to-no-good Bawdyhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6354074)





Date: August 1st, 2006 3:13 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

Anything I can do for you? I know, stats for Boston, even less reported than CA and TX.

22 Boston U 8.2%

27 Boston College 7.3%

3 Harvard 6.1%

13 Cornell 4.1%

7 Penn 2.9%

4 Columbia 2.6%

14 Georgetown 2.1%

8 Michigan 1.6%

8 Virginia 1.6%

4 NYU 1.6%

1 Yale 1.5%

11 Duke 1.0%

87 Northeastern 0.9%

FTT Suffolk 0.9%

12 Northwestern 0.8%

18 GWU 0.7%

TTT Howard 0.6%

22 Notre Dame 0.6%

27 Washington 0.6%

27 Illinois 0.5%

6 Chicago 0.5%

26 Emory 0.4%

42 Maryland 0.4%

8 Boalt 0.4%

19 Minnesota 0.4%

16 Texas 0.2%

43 American 0.2%

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6354110)





Date: August 1st, 2006 3:15 PM
Author: Laughsome Up-to-no-good Bawdyhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6354122)





Date: August 1st, 2006 3:20 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

hmm, how about % in the Vault 5?

1 Yale 24.1%

4 Columbia 16.4%

3 Harvard 15.3%

6 Chicago 14.6%

7 Penn 12.8%

2 Stanford 11.0%

4 NYU 9.8%

13 Cornell 6.7%

11 Duke 6.5%

12 Northwestern 5.3%

8 Michigan 4.4%

14 Georgetown 4.1%

8 Boalt 3.8%

8 Virginia 3.7%

17 Vanderbilt 3.5%

22 Notre Dame 2.3%

32 Fordham 2.1%

16 Texas 2.0%

65 Rutgers 2.0%

22 Boston U 1.7%

27 Boston College 1.5%

17 USC 1.4%

43 Arizona 1.3%

15 UCLA 1.3%

18 GWU 1.1%

27 Illinois 1.1%

50 UConn 1.0%

43 Tulane 1.0%

19 WUSTL 0.9%

27 North Carolina 0.9%

43 American 0.9%

60 Villanova 0.8%

TTT Albany 0.8%

58 Brooklyn 0.8%

34 BYU 0.7%

39 Wake Forest 0.6%

TTT Howard 0.6%

65 Kentucky 0.6%

53 Cardozo 0.5%

27 W&M 0.5%

39 Ohio State 0.5%

22 Iowa 0.4%

26 Emory 0.4%

87 Pepperdine 0.4%

32 Wisconsin 0.4%

43 SMU 0.3%

FTT Touro 0.3%

70 Houston 0.3%

80 St. John's 0.3%

60 Kent 0.3%

41 Florida 0.2%

TTT NY Law 0.2%

FTT Weidner 0.2%

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6354174)





Date: August 1st, 2006 5:49 PM
Author: Laughsome Up-to-no-good Bawdyhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6355383)





Date: August 1st, 2006 5:54 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

I got nothin'

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6355428)





Date: August 1st, 2006 4:24 PM
Author: Dead Big Jew Theater Stage

Your "unknown" Debevoise summer is from NYU. NYU has 16 total. Everything else is right...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6354676)





Date: August 1st, 2006 4:27 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

nice, thanks, I've got a couple of other changes to make shortly, I'll include that along with them. Also...

Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer

NYC: Georgetown 2, Pepperdine, Penn, NYU, Fordham

DC: Georgetown

London: Michigan

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6354702)





Date: August 1st, 2006 4:29 PM
Author: Exciting pistol brunch

WOW. THAT PLACE MUST BE FESTERING.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6354715)





Date: August 1st, 2006 4:47 PM
Author: Dead Big Jew Theater Stage

Huh?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6354849)





Date: August 1st, 2006 5:24 PM
Author: Exciting pistol brunch

You're going to need to adjust your page in light of the new Vault rankings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6355149)





Date: August 1st, 2006 5:28 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6353655

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6355190)





Date: August 1st, 2006 5:32 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

Squire Sanders: http://www.ssd.com/files/tbl_s10News/FileUpload44/12455/SummerAssoc.pdf

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6355219)





Date: August 2nd, 2006 8:15 AM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

come on, Covington summers have got to be around somewhere

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6359692)





Date: August 2nd, 2006 11:08 AM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

Mostly-helpful DLA Piper stats: http://www.dlapiper.com/us/careers/summer/results2006hiring/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6360308)





Date: August 2nd, 2006 11:13 AM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

Greenberg breakdown (WITH PICTURES): http://www.gtlaw.com/recruiting/summer/2006/scoop.asp

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6360349)





Date: August 2nd, 2006 4:19 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

...covington summers, where are you...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6363018)





Date: August 5th, 2006 12:37 PM
Author: Vibrant Principal's Office Regret

All Vinson now available: http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/02/vault-51-vinson-elkins-llp.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=463618&forum_id=2#6382590)