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Possible to get a science PhD at 25 w/ no background?
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:33 PM Author: Blathering confused senate say you've got the requisite IQ and science aptitude to be a working theoretical physicist, biochemist, or what have you, but with no prior training in any of those fields. how tough would it be to embark on a phd path in one of the natural sciences at age 25, and what would it take? i presume getting a master's would be the first step, but even then, i doubt many programs take people without an undergrad degree in that area. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591654) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:34 PM Author: emerald point you'd have to make up 60-90 hours of ug math and science before they would let you in. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591664) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:36 PM Author: boyish sweet tailpipe not if he had taken sci and math as an UG.
that would cut it down to just major classes (depending on the area) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:38 PM Author: emerald point he said "no prior training" so I assumed that meant absolutely no math and science. and, for example, "Physics for poets" is unlikely to count. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591687) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:39 PM Author: boyish sweet tailpipe good point.
if he was a premed and an econ major, which was my case, he might be OK to just start the major classes. this could be done while in law school. |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:35 PM Author: boyish sweet tailpipe i am doing this. i took 5 classes in the sciences while i was in law school/summer after law school. depends (as you might guess) on the school and your interest in the area. you don't necessarily need the UG degree but must have taken the prerequisite classes for the grad classes.
this means, short of seminars and other crap, you need to basically take the major classes that you didnt take as an UG.
i did this at age 24-25 while only having pre-med type classes in college |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:41 PM Author: Blathering confused senate that's basically my situation. i've got a smattering of science and math from being pre-med as an undergrad, and did quite well in those courses, but wound up getting a degree in the humanities. it's a pretty grim picture if i'm looking at 4 years or so until i'd even be ready to apply to a phd program.
more generally, i also wonder what limits there might be simply from starting so late. most people who wind up in the sciences are heavily into them by the time they enter college, and in some fields like physics, i imagine it would be tough to ever 'catch up' with everyone if you haven't spent a lot of your formative years immersed in math and highly theoretical, technical stuff. |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:44 PM Author: autistic exciting rehab blood rage The age thing might cause a problem if you're sure you want to go into theoretical physics. Theorists are pretty much useless after age 40 (Planck being a notable exception). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591720) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:44 PM Author: emerald point basically you have to reach the level of an incoming senior, for your admission to be credible. Look at a ug program, and subtract out your classes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591721) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:47 PM Author: garnet whorehouse background story What about research experience? I assume most kids applying to good programs will have done a senior thesis or spent summers doing something research related? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591742) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:50 PM Author: emerald point you can probably tap dance around that. in your spare time, do a project that stretches over a calendar year, if you want. |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:53 PM Author: garnet whorehouse background story I thought it's pretty important and just doing something in your apartemnt in your spare time with no supervision wouldn't really count. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591773) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:54 PM Author: emerald point you'll be taking at least 40 hours of ug course work. I'm sure one of your profs will want to help you enough to do an independent lab project with you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591783) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:56 PM Author: vibrant tanning salon I know in physics most students will have at least 1, usualyl 2 REU summers, plus a year long senior honors thesis. Most will have one or more publications.
Edit: The other thing is that, at least for physics, a double major in math is also a defacto requirment.
So beyond Calc III and intro physics, a physics PhD student must have:
Classical Mechanics Modern Physics E&M Quantum Mechanics Statistical Mechanics Math Methods Lab Methods
plus
linear algebra diff eq real analysis complex analysis
it would be nice to have
solid state physics probablity/statistics algebra (two semesters of this is a requirment for theory) electronics some programming classes |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:00 PM Author: emerald point that's just bc the job prospects in physics are so shitty -- you utilize all the time you have for that shot at a top grad school. this guy is a late bloomer trying to make up for lost time. edit: yeah, that is the stuff you learn in the first three years of ug. |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:02 PM Author: garnet whorehouse background story hahaha physics has some of the best job prospects out of college or grad school if you go to a good program. Possibly THE best. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591829) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:02 PM Author: vibrant tanning salon the job prospects for physics are better than pretty much any phd except econ or EE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591832) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:05 PM Author: emerald point explain to me why you went to law school then. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591838) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:07 PM Author: vibrant tanning salon I didnt want to be a physicist. All of the people from my cohort are employed. Academic jobs are hard to come by (as they are in any field), but its easy to get government or industry work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591855) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:08 PM Author: garnet whorehouse background story you can also get some very good finance jobs with a physics degree. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591858) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:58 PM Author: garnet whorehouse background story I think most applicants do considerably more than that though, and most professors won't just supervise some kid doing some independent experiment. Usually kids work in the lab on exisiting research interests of the professor and eventually start working on something for a thesis. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591810) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:00 PM Author: drab floppy library If you're taking classes at a decent school, it's not very difficult to find a lab to do research. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591821) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:02 PM Author: emerald point to be sure. independent study == research project for credit. |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:37 PM Author: autistic exciting rehab blood rage I'd put your chances at close to zero unless you can show that you know all the background stuff anyway despite not having a degree. A terminal master's program isn't remedial education, after all. You'll be expected to do graduate-level work from the start no matter where you are. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591682) |
Date: February 12th, 2007 6:45 PM Author: garnet whorehouse background story Youd probably have to take a bunch of classes before getting in. Also, if you want to go to a solid program, you'll need to get some research experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591728) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:47 PM Author: drab floppy library The closest you could probably get without additional coursework would be a history of science or science and society PhD. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591741) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:27 PM Author: saffron maniacal jap location He could apply for a masters first and then apply for a PHD. You can be a non-science major if you just apply for a masters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591927) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 6:50 PM Author: vibrant tanning salon Even if you take a bunch of classes, you arent going to get into a top school without some kind of decent undergrad level research experience. Also, you need recommendations. Recommendations are probably the single most important factor in science grad school admissions. I think you'll pretty much have to go back to school and do all or most of a BS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591759) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:24 PM Author: saffron maniacal jap location What did you major in? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591914) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:34 PM Author: Blathering confused senate philosophy and linguistics (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591947) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:45 PM Author: exhilarant property goyim (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7591995) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:52 PM Author: flickering step-uncle's house At my grad school (sci. & eng.), PhDs take an average of 7 years post-undergrad. Some people take 5 years, but some take 11 years.
Worst of all, you can be in a PhD program for 3-4 years and then not pass the quals. This can happen for political reasons, such as choosing a research area that has lost funding or faculty in the past year. |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 7:58 PM Author: Blathering confused senate i agree the situation seems pretty grim. i'm just realizing now though that all i really want to do is continue studying, learning, doing research, etc., and after ignoring people's advice for years to go into academia, believing the whole time i needed more money than that path offered, i'm finally starting to think i really don't need a six figure income to be happy after all.
too bad that my 17 or 18 year old self couldn't have done this same reasoning for me. |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 8:00 PM Author: Stimulating Institution Dog Poop What's wrong with a PhD in linguistics or philosophy of language? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7592066) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 8:02 PM Author: Blathering confused senate nothing in particular. it's an option i'm considering, i'm just wondering what getting a phd in something like physics would actually take. i never really thought it would be a realistic thing for me to do at this point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7592083) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 8:11 PM Author: Stimulating Institution Dog Poop PhD in any field is a rough road. There's not much I can add to what the others said, except that I think you need to do research to get strong LORs. That's just to get into the PhD program. Or is it pogrom. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7592129) |
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Date: February 12th, 2007 8:12 PM Author: Bronze Parlor Corn Cake My best bud from college is doing what you described. Kind of. He did nothing but humanities during undergrad, then his mom got cancer and he decided to go to med school. He took some science classes, did some research, and got into some top MD-Ph.D programs. He says a lot of MD-Ph.D's end up running their own lab for research. That's another option. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=579398&forum_id=2#7592130) |