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COLUMBIA fin. aid director held stock in student loan firm
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:01 AM Author: Trip police squad fortuitous meteor From this morning's NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/05/education/05loans.html?hp The directors of financial aid at Columbia University, the University of Texas at Austin and the University of Southern California held shares in a student loan company that each of the universities recommends to student borrowers, and in at least two cases profited handsomely ... The documents show the largest gains went to David Charlow, executive director of financial aid at Columbia University. Columbia said yesterday that it had put Mr. Charlow on paid leave “pending a full review.” ... Student Loan Xpress accounts for nearly 39 percent of the federal loan volume to undergraduates at Columbia, according to Student Marketmeasure, a research firm that focuses on the student loan industry.
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:02 AM Author: Free-loading pink house ladyboy Yeah this is an unfolding scandal. A bunch of NY area schools have been accused of funneling students to Access Group as if it's the only lender, while getting kickbacks from them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877619) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:08 AM Author: Trip police squad fortuitous meteor Nice. That's a pretty good scam, although not as good as charging $47k/year for college in the first place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877634) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:09 AM Author: Big-titted keepsake machete library But dood, you get an unframed piece of paper after spending a mere $188k. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877639) |
Date: April 5th, 2007 11:08 AM Author: Big-titted keepsake machete library Supposedly PEnn is all caught up in this as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877633) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:13 AM Author: Free-loading pink house ladyboy I'd be surprised if most schools who have a preferred lender (which is most of them) don't have something like this going on.
The sad part is that this makes sense for students and schools. It's always better to have a relationship with a lender and know their people will help you solve problems expeditiously than just giving the student a long list of lenders and telling them to pick one. |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:17 AM Author: Trip police squad fortuitous meteor Is it strictly necessary for such a relationship to involve large monetary kickbacks, though? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877662) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:24 AM Author: Mint Arrogant Round Eye It is common in many industries...
Although the practice is ripe for abuse (MarshMac/AIG is a prime example), it makes sense for businesses to offer "bonuses" to their clients who do certain levels of business with them. It is simple economies of scale. |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:27 AM Author: Big-titted keepsake machete library Dood. It is NOT common in many industries. It is ILLEGAL you asshat. Have you even worked in the real world. Corporate America has all sorts of rules about this in their employee handbooks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877703) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:29 AM Author: multi-colored alcoholic piazza you are right, but employee handbooks are about as binding as when i promised my ex that buttsex wouldnt hurt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877710) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:30 AM Author: Big-titted keepsake machete library You don't know shit about employment law then. Those fuckers are always Exhibit A. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877712) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:36 AM Author: Mint Arrogant Round Eye We can put the name calling aside, but I know for a fact from my current job "in the real world" that companies are allowed to award their clients for doing specified levels of business. You can argue with me if you want but it happens and is legal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877738) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:40 AM Author: Big-titted keepsake machete library http://www.whitecollarcrimefyi.com/kickbacks.html (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877755) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:46 AM Author: Mint Arrogant Round Eye I understand the concept and I'm not arguing that kickbacks are illegal. What I am talking about is definitley a gray area in the law but not illegal. Take an example (and tell me where I'm wrong)- Retailer A sells widgets for manufacturer Y. Y charges A, $1.00 per widget. Y also tells A if they sell 1,000,000 widgets he will charge $0.90 per widget and give him a refund check. Is the refund check a kickback? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877777) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:48 AM Author: Trip police squad fortuitous meteor I think this is more relevant if the check goes into the pocket of an individual employee of Retailer A. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877787) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:51 AM Author: Big-titted keepsake machete library Correct. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877803) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:42 AM Author: multi-colored alcoholic piazza but the aoi's or bylaws of the nonprofit (the school) will probably not allow employees to accept this kind of money, at least without telling the school. the company may not be in trouble, but the school may be (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877765) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:51 AM Author: odious chocolate personal credit line lodge To get your tax-exemption you have to have a conflict of interest policy. In fact, one of the primary rules of nonprofit orgs is no private inurement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877804) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:55 AM Author: multi-colored alcoholic piazza yeah. employee compensation can be incentive-based, but compensation is [almost always?] voted by the board. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877824) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:00 PM Author: odious chocolate personal credit line lodge Compensation may be performance based, but this isn't just compensation. Purposefully entering into a transaction knowing that there was a conflict of interests = massive IRS penalties and person liability. Ouch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877845) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:07 PM Author: multi-colored alcoholic piazza definitely. will they go after them to make a statement? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877878) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:09 PM Author: odious chocolate personal credit line lodge The IRS is pretty good about this kind of stuff. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877886) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:11 PM Author: multi-colored alcoholic piazza im sorry, yeah, def the IRS would go after the people. i was wondering if the school would face liability? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877899) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:13 PM Author: odious chocolate personal credit line lodge The school definitely faces liability for the actions of its employees AND for failing to disclose on their annual 990 filing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877914) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:14 PM Author: multi-colored alcoholic piazza no knowledge requirement? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877922) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:20 PM Author: odious chocolate personal credit line lodge I don't think that there is a knowledge requirement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877971) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:59 AM Author: Free-loading pink house ladyboy wtf? of course this is true. my girl is showered with gifts all the time. true, it's not money, but a pair of behind the dugout $150 Yankee tickets is any different? please. it's not "bribery." bribery is when you give money to a gov't officer who is supposed to be evenhanded to all citizens. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877835) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:40 AM Author: multi-colored alcoholic piazza Handbooks can modify the employment relationship; they do not make bribery illegal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877754) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:41 AM Author: Big-titted keepsake machete library Oh, I agree with that. But bribery is illegal separately. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877761) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:43 AM Author: multi-colored alcoholic piazza sorry, binding was awful word choice (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877768) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:27 AM Author: Trip police squad fortuitous meteor Sure, but there are a lot of unethical business practices that "make sense" for their practitioners. If they weren't attractive, you wouldn't have to make rules against them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877705) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:39 AM Author: Mint Arrogant Round Eye True. The question here is if they did anything against the rules?
Are there laws against owning shares in companies that you do business with? |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:42 AM Author: Trip police squad fortuitous meteor For the University of Texas guy, almost certainly yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877764) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:49 AM Author: Free-loading pink house ladyboy Strictly necessary? No. But why would a college call a lender its "preferred lender" otherwise? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877795) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:20 AM Author: Mint Arrogant Round Eye Why is this a scandal? If these companies provided competitive loans, then why does it matter who owned them? I'm not a "troll" for any of these schools but I think you could argue that the deans were providing a service to the students by making sure they had access to competitive, trustworthy loans.
If the company was ripping off students by charging exhorbitant rates or something then we have a problem...
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:21 AM Author: Big-titted keepsake machete library Who said the loans were competitive? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877676) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:25 AM Author: Mint Arrogant Round Eye Nobody, but who said they weren't? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877696) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:26 AM Author: Big-titted keepsake machete library If you are paying kickbacks, you have to recoup the $ somehow. My guess is they recoup it at the expense of the students. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877699) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:30 AM Author: Mint Arrogant Round Eye Judging by the article, it looks like these guys just owned (held shares) in the company. I just don't think we have enough information to accuse these guys of doing anything illegal. On one hand we could assume that they were taking kickbacks. However, we could also assume that Loan Xpress told Columbia that if they offer X total loans to CU students, we will give them fixed rates at 0.2% below the competition. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877713) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:31 AM Author: Big-titted keepsake machete library They got options to buy shares at below market. That is a kick back. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877718) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:48 AM Author: Massive Maroon Mental Disorder National Security Agency Perhaps they recoup the money by loaning to more students courtesy of the relationship. If this is true, and the loans aren't higher than market, it is hardly at the expense of the students. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877785) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:24 AM Author: Trip police squad fortuitous meteor So it's ok to take a bribe to do something you might have done anyway? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877689) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:26 AM Author: Mint Arrogant Round Eye Who was taking bribes? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877701) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:28 AM Author: Big-titted keepsake machete library Did you not read the article? School financial aid officers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877707) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:31 AM Author: Trip police squad fortuitous meteor That was just an extreme example of "harmless" conflict of interest. The guy shouldn't be deriving income from something that's potentially in direct conflict with executing his real job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877719) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:51 AM Author: Mint Arrogant Round Eye He is a client who owned shares in the company he was doing business with. How is that in conflict with executing his real job? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877801) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:55 AM Author: Trip police squad fortuitous meteor His job is to provide a service for university students. Owning shares in the company makes it his "other job" to get students to take out loans with that company, which may or may not be what he would have done otherwise. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877823) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:14 PM Author: Light property Is this a serious question? Have you not even thought about this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877923) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:40 PM Author: Mint Arrogant Round Eye Although the non-profit status of the Universities in question changes the relevancy of this question, yes it was serious. If I am a Wal-Mart executive, you are saying that I can't own stock in any of the companies that produce goods that WalMart sells. This is inaccurate, I can, I just can't profit off information not publicly available that I have about said companies due to my position at Walmart. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7878088) |
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Date: April 6th, 2007 10:16 AM Author: Insanely creepy irradiated church building knife i hope you're either flame or one of the guilty parties, because the other option is hopeless retard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7883844) |
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Date: April 6th, 2007 10:17 AM Author: Light property titcr. I felt like I was taking crazy pills for a while (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7883848) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:41 AM Author: ebony well-lubricated orchestra pit dysfunction NY1 had something on NYU and Citibank last night - it honestly didn't seem that shady to me. The girl got her loan at a decent rate but was mad that NYU called Citi a preferred lender only because Citi was giving NYU some sort of referral fee. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877757) |
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Date: April 6th, 2007 10:16 AM Author: Insanely creepy irradiated church building knife that doesn't have a lot to do with this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7883847) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 11:54 AM Author: odious chocolate personal credit line lodge I think everyone is overlooking the fact that the school is a non-profit org. Nonprofits get their tax exemption because they serve some larger community. That means no private inurement. In other words, no one person (especially an insider) can directly take the benefit.
The universtities could face serious excise taxes for this and the individuals are going to get hit hard. |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:06 PM Author: Free-loading pink house ladyboy Columbia is a non-profit org? Since when? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877872) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:13 PM Author: multi-colored alcoholic piazza edit: http://www.cise.columbia.edu/ise/billpayment.php
this is the only link i could find quickly
they are a fucking school dude, the only for-profit schools are ones like point state park in pittsburgh. sorry its the only one i could think of, i dont know the local shittholes in nyc |
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Date: April 6th, 2007 9:38 AM Author: passionate mustard organic girlfriend point university of phoenix is a for profit org i think (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7883784) |
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Date: April 6th, 2007 9:39 AM Author: Trip police squad fortuitous meteor Yeah, also Devry and ITT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7883786) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 12:15 PM Author: odious chocolate personal credit line lodge Since January 1974. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7877931) |
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Date: April 6th, 2007 10:37 AM Author: Free-loading pink house ladyboy Wait a second. What about their fucking endowment? Or is that not considered profit? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7883885) |
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Date: April 6th, 2007 10:42 AM Author: pale stimulating deer antler principal's office The profit doesn't go into the hands of shareholders and owners, like it would at a for-profit company. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7883899) |
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Date: April 6th, 2007 10:45 AM Author: Free-loading pink house ladyboy Right. I get it. So what's the point of having the endowment exactly? Just to finance things as they are needed? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7883909) |
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Date: April 5th, 2007 10:35 PM Author: Trip police squad fortuitous meteor Bump. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=608101&forum_id=2#7881704) |