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Porsche Cayman vs. Mercedez Benz SLK

which one is more prestigious to the first yr BIGLAW associa...
godawful cordovan patrolman gay wizard
  06/23/07
An SUV as a single male post college? Kill self.
trip milky theater filthpig
  06/23/07
wtf are you talking about? he said cayman, not cayenne.
lascivious chrome international law enforcement agency nowag
  06/23/07
you just proved what a tard you are. congrats, son.
Costumed mother
  06/23/07
Yes, because a Honda Accord is obviously a more appropriate ...
Startled Nibblets
  06/23/07
The Cayman is a very fast minivan. A minivan.
red immigrant
  06/23/07
http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/cayman/cayman/
Pink Concupiscible Multi-billionaire
  06/23/07
Does it have a driver's side sliding door?
stimulating bossy hissy fit son of senegal
  06/23/07
wow, striver brian. you and your mama are probably surrounde...
Costumed mother
  06/23/07
The SLK is too small -- it is effeminate.
Pink Concupiscible Multi-billionaire
  06/23/07
rofl @ the buffoons in this thread
Henna gaming laptop
  06/23/07
Neither is prestigious whatsoever. The Cayman screams striv...
Sable Home
  06/23/07
E-Class for a single guy is douchey. If you're not going S/...
flesh forum main people
  06/23/07
I don't see what makes an E-class douchey. Also, BMW no lon...
Sable Home
  06/23/07
make it a 550i. if you keep it through the next redesig...
flesh forum main people
  06/23/07
What about the CL? The CLK is a decent car.
Pink Concupiscible Multi-billionaire
  06/23/07
"but IMO sedans are inherently more prestigious." ...
stimulating bossy hissy fit son of senegal
  06/23/07
So, what's a good porsche? I've kind of always wondered abo...
disgusting party of the first part
  06/23/07
I'm not a porsche fan, but short of the 914 and 924 (trash)...
frisky legend
  06/23/07
cayman. the slk and for that matter most mercedes are soccer...
Stirring dun crotch
  06/23/07
If a Gentleman is to take proletarian joy in driving himself...
Lime rigpig state
  06/23/07
That's why he wants the cayman, and not the boxter. If I had...
Aquamarine boyish abode
  06/23/07
The Gentlemen would be well reminded that the standard Boxte...
Lime rigpig state
  06/23/07
exactly why he's getting the cayman and not the boxter. ...
Aquamarine boyish abode
  06/23/07
It is believed that the Gentleman has missed the thrust of m...
Lime rigpig state
  06/23/07
The Gentlemen now understands, however the caymen is in no w...
Aquamarine boyish abode
  06/23/07
The Gentleman would do well to examine the technical specifi...
Lime rigpig state
  06/23/07
How would the Gentleman go about obtaining a $120,000 car on...
Aquamarine boyish abode
  06/23/07
The Gentleman would be, as stated in the Original Advice, be...
Lime rigpig state
  06/23/07
Then what exactly should the gentlemen drive?
Aquamarine boyish abode
  06/23/07
The Gentleman at the peak of his game should never drive, th...
Lime rigpig state
  06/23/07
I must disagree. On the assumption that the gentlemen doesn'...
Aquamarine boyish abode
  06/23/07
Dear Sir! I believe the Gentleman has confused me with someo...
Lime rigpig state
  06/23/07
So, in closing, adobe > transportation?
Aquamarine boyish abode
  06/23/07
Only if the Gentleman is living in Phoenix, or is especially...
Lime rigpig state
  06/23/07
Assuming 5 years biglaw salary in a market such as chicago, ...
Aquamarine boyish abode
  06/23/07
I believe that I would look with favor upon most anyone lead...
Lime rigpig state
  06/23/07
dood cayman is the coupe version of the boxter
Elite laughsome voyeur corner
  06/23/07
You have obviously not seen either cars...
Aquamarine boyish abode
  06/23/07
O RLY? "The two-seat Cayman S - Porsche's coupe vers...
Elite laughsome voyeur corner
  06/23/07
I stand corrected...
Aquamarine boyish abode
  06/23/07
what about a 335i coupe?
Stirring dun crotch
  06/23/07
I'd get a cayman b4 a 335i...but then again I looove sports ...
Aquamarine boyish abode
  06/23/07
if the cayman is your daily driver then it will annoy you af...
Stirring dun crotch
  06/23/07
the exige does
frisky legend
  06/23/07
This thread is full of many douches.
stimulating bossy hissy fit son of senegal
  06/23/07
The Gentleman who says such things reeks of Failure at the o...
Lime rigpig state
  06/23/07
You're a fucking Melungeon schtick rehash. How lame.
stimulating bossy hissy fit son of senegal
  06/23/07
I believe the Gentleman is quite mistaken, but the Gentleman...
Lime rigpig state
  06/23/07
the only two acceptable cars in this price range are the 335...
Irate Senate Kitty Cat
  06/23/07
the 335i is a freak, but a convertible? you a chick?
Costumed mother
  06/23/07


Poast new message in this thread





Date: June 23rd, 2007 12:45 AM
Author: godawful cordovan patrolman gay wizard

which one is more prestigious to the first yr BIGLAW associate? and, which one impresses girls more?

discuss

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8288909)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 12:48 AM
Author: trip milky theater filthpig

An SUV as a single male post college? Kill self.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8288915)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 12:49 AM
Author: lascivious chrome international law enforcement agency nowag

wtf are you talking about? he said cayman, not cayenne.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8288923)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 6:19 PM
Author: Costumed mother

you just proved what a tard you are. congrats, son.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8291132)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 6:33 PM
Author: Startled Nibblets

Yes, because a Honda Accord is obviously a more appropriate man car than an SUV...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8291188)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 12:48 AM
Author: red immigrant

The Cayman is a very fast minivan. A minivan.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8288916)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 6:39 AM
Author: Pink Concupiscible Multi-billionaire

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/cayman/cayman/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8289592)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:49 PM
Author: stimulating bossy hissy fit son of senegal

Does it have a driver's side sliding door?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290406)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 6:23 PM
Author: Costumed mother

wow, striver brian. you and your mama are probably surrounded by chevy astros, eh son?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8291150)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 6:40 AM
Author: Pink Concupiscible Multi-billionaire

The SLK is too small -- it is effeminate.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8289593)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 10:31 AM
Author: Henna gaming laptop

rofl @ the buffoons in this thread

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8289660)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 10:50 AM
Author: Sable Home

Neither is prestigious whatsoever. The Cayman screams striver - it's the Porsche for the man who can't afford a real Porsche. The SLK is hands-down a chick's car. How dimunitive of a man are you that you could even fit in one of these?

You seem to be set on little coupes, so you should probably go with the M3, but IMO sedans are inherently more prestigious. I'd probably go with an E-Class sedan.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8289685)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 11:11 AM
Author: flesh forum main people

E-Class for a single guy is douchey. If you're not going S/SL don't buy a Benz.

Either a regular Infiniti G Coupe, or a 3-series coupe unless you want to go significantly upmarket. Lexus SC ain't bad, but it's also a chick car.

Sedans to look at would be a 545i or an M45.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8289727)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 11:34 AM
Author: Sable Home

I don't see what makes an E-class douchey. Also, BMW no longer makes the 545i, and I'd much rather go with Audi A6 or something than any kind of Infinity.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8289779)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 11:38 AM
Author: flesh forum main people

make it a 550i.

if you keep it through the next redesign you'll look douchey. imagine a guy driving the last model e-class? like my douchebag vp!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8289790)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 6:33 PM
Author: Pink Concupiscible Multi-billionaire

What about the CL? The CLK is a decent car.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8291190)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:50 PM
Author: stimulating bossy hissy fit son of senegal

"but IMO sedans are inherently more prestigious."

For a daddy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290407)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 12:33 PM
Author: disgusting party of the first part

So, what's a good porsche? I've kind of always wondered about this?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8289958)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 6:09 PM
Author: frisky legend

I'm not a porsche fan, but

short of the 914 and 924 (trash) and possibly the 944's (weak), you tend to only hear positive things about all of their vehicles.

Articles on the Cayman call it the best Porsche for handling, the Boxter (at least the S) gets good reviews, the Carreras are icons.

The Cayenne, imo, is a stupid piece of shit, but like I said, i don't like Porsches.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8291094)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 1:30 PM
Author: Stirring dun crotch

cayman. the slk and for that matter most mercedes are soccer mom cars.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290149)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 1:35 PM
Author: Lime rigpig state

If a Gentleman is to take proletarian joy in driving himself rather than obtain the services of a Driver, the Gentleman should at the very least wait until He is able to obtain a car worthy of being Driven, for nothing is more gauche than obtaining the "starter" model of a vehicle in order to give the appearance of wealth, and as such all attempts are doomed to failure.

Au Revoir,

L' Bon Vivant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290169)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 1:58 PM
Author: Aquamarine boyish abode

That's why he wants the cayman, and not the boxter. If I had my choice of porsches I'd love to have the porsche 911 turbo, however dropping 120,000 on a car is a bit crazy when you only make 175k a year

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290251)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:05 PM
Author: Lime rigpig state

The Gentlemen would be well reminded that the standard Boxter is a car for the less discerining man who does not realize that it gives him the same social status of an Eastern European Kleptocrat with a poor quality Hair Transplant, and that such a car only demeans him and speaks ill of his Character, to the point that it is only by sheer force of will that a proper Gentleman can prevent themselves from purchasing him and using him for sport hunting; as such, it does not deserve even the merit of entry into the discussion, and for similar reasons I have wisely advised the Original Gentleman that he should seek to abstain from any hasty purchase.

Au Revoir,

L' Bon Vivant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290279)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:06 PM
Author: Aquamarine boyish abode

exactly why he's getting the cayman and not the boxter.

Au Revoir,

Puck42

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290284)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:12 PM
Author: Lime rigpig state

It is believed that the Gentleman has missed the thrust of my discourse, so I Apologize most Strongly and shall now attempt to remedy this error. The Boxter, being as it is a mere crass attempt to show class and/or wealth, does not come into the discussion when discussing "starter" vehicles, and one would do as well in terms of image by purchasing a Thunderbird or Miata; therefore merely upgrading to a level above the Boxter is not sufficient to advance a Gentleman to even a merely acceptable level of class.

Au Revoir,

L' Bon Vivant

Post Scripted Edit: More Apologies, if you think that the Cayman is not the coupe version of the Boxter, the Gentleman would be advised to drive both of them, if He can withstand getting inside such an Infernal Contraption.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290303)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:16 PM
Author: Aquamarine boyish abode

The Gentlemen now understands, however the caymen is in no way the coupe version of the boxter. It looks much nicer and the drive is much better....both these cars however pale in comparison to the 911 turbo...or even the 911 carrera (spelling??)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290317)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:26 PM
Author: Lime rigpig state

The Gentleman would do well to examine the technical specifications of both vehicles, which I shall link to presently, so that He may persue them for Himself and come to understand that both vehicles feature the exact same Engine fr both improved and basic classes, as well as share the same Chassis, amongst other traits right down to the fuel tank; it would be difficult for the Gentleman to argue that they are not simply different sides of the same Specie, however, as an Aside, I personally could not fathom purchasing anything less than a 911 Turbo, as a True Master of the Game realizes that the Porche is the Rolex of Cars, a brand with some Moderately Acceptable models but not an Exquisite brand.

Au Revoir,

L' Bon Vivant

Boxter:

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/boxster/boxster/featuresandspecs/?gtabindex=1

Cayman:

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/cayman/cayman/featuresandspecs/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290353)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:28 PM
Author: Aquamarine boyish abode

How would the Gentleman go about obtaining a $120,000 car on a $200,000 starting salary? Surely, prestigous car + unprestigous apartment =/= prestige.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290359)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:35 PM
Author: Lime rigpig state

The Gentleman would be, as stated in the Original Advice, best advised to simply go without, especially given that to obtain a 200,000 American Dollar starting salary the Gentleman will be working in New York City, since He would merely be showing his lack of class by accepting something less than excellence, much as He would if He were to marry a Gentlewoman from an undistinguished background and undistinguished Credentials, say a Midwesterner or "po' buckra" instead of a Gentlewoman of Upscale Birth.

Au Revoir,

L' Bon Vivant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290369)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:37 PM
Author: Aquamarine boyish abode

Then what exactly should the gentlemen drive?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290378)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:46 PM
Author: Lime rigpig state

The Gentleman at the peak of his game should never drive, the aforementioned Driver is a "must have" of anyone who seeks such status, however at a younger age and if not possessed of a good lineage via natural or marital ties, it does a refined gentleman credit to mingle with the Hoi-Polloi on such occassions, as he both obtains insight into the world of those less fortunate than himself while casting no aspersions or pretensions for the short time before He may obtain, if he must, a Sports Car. Sports Cars, however, are not the prefered means of transport for a Young Gentleman on the rise, instead, focus upon any one of a number of upscale full sized vehicles from one of the Germanic Auto Groups, or even, heavens forbid, one of the LS series Lexus, so that One may maintain a modicum of Grace despite the decidedly pedestrian transport he is forced by cruel circumstance into.

Au Revoir,

L' Bon Vivant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290396)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:48 PM
Author: Aquamarine boyish abode

I must disagree. On the assumption that the gentlemen doesn't come from the aforementioned good lineage or wealth he should, at all times, attempt to strive...for it is better to be a striver then live within your means when "living within your means" includes driving a 25-30k car and living in a so-so place. The only time striving is unacceptable is when one has the $ to not be a striver.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290403)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:54 PM
Author: Lime rigpig state

Dear Sir! I believe the Gentleman has confused me with someone who would enter such a Cheap vehicle on any occasion other than that of dire portent!

I Believe the Gentleman may have Mistaken my statement about Lexus when refering to the small amount mentioned, but lo' the model mentioned starts at well over 10,000 American Dollars more than the Cayman, and the other vehicles mentioned are in the same range if not more, placing it in the harder but not impossible to afford range for a young Professional Gentleman; I would also state that the one area a growing Gentleman should stretch His budget is in the area of Abode, for it is only by having Respectable neighbors that a Gentleman can continue to Refine Himself.

Au Revoir,

L' Bon Vivant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290419)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 3:02 PM
Author: Aquamarine boyish abode

So, in closing, adobe > transportation?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290449)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 3:05 PM
Author: Lime rigpig state

Only if the Gentleman is living in Phoenix, or is especially Daring in his Architectural Choices. But I jest, Indeed, in most situations, The Aspiring Gallant can compensate for a moderately acceptable Vehicle through choice of Housing, as well as attention to both Conservative Business and Leisure Fashion.

Au Revoir,

L' Bon Vivant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290459)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 3:06 PM
Author: Aquamarine boyish abode

Assuming 5 years biglaw salary in a market such as chicago, what would the gentlemen have to do to be looked upon with favor from TheBonVivant??

PS. I love this...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290467)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 3:36 PM
Author: Lime rigpig state

I believe that I would look with favor upon most anyone leading their life the way that they wish, from the humblest Craftsman to the Gentlemen and Women of surpassing refinement, breeding, and accomplishment; what I object to is those who wish to take Shortcuts or gain Accomplishment without realizing how much it Cheapens themselves and causes those with True Class to cast pitying oculi over their mean upjumped Attempts.

If one is seeking Refinement, Such a Gentleman or Woman should have an eye for Nupitals at such time, assuming the age of 30, with a partner who both Pleases and Challenges them, and has on their part a surfeit of Breeding or Class; further, by such a time the Gentleman should have obtained a full wardrobe of Tailored clothes and accessories including at least one high quality chronometer, and by this I mean an actual Chronometer, not merely a Watch, while Also maintaining a suitable abode in an Urban Neighborhood with an eye towards continuing significant Travel across our home Sphere, available at reasonable cost to those blessed with the virtue of Frugality; lastly by such a time a Gentleman would have been able to purchase a vehicle such as the BWM 760 Li.

In terms of personal refinement, and as indicated by my Nom de Guerre, I place high value on gastronomie, in such a city as Chicago the Gentleman should have visited and enjoyed the DOP tasting menu with either the recommended wine flights or, if the Gentleman is daring, a suitable White and Red of your own choosing, at Spaggia, as well as the other fine dining establishments of the Aptly named Second City; it goes without saying that the Gentleman As the Gentleman will not yet be able to afford a full time personal Chef unless you are of Dual Income with No Children status, Culinary ability on behalf of the Gentleman's partner or himself is not to be overlooked, and further it should go without saying that the Gentleman, if he Drinks, should be conversant and schooled in at least the areas of Wines, Whiskeys (Esp. Scotch), Ports and Cognacs, Brandies, and with a general knowledge of proper Mixed Beverages suitable for all occasions, and lastly He should know better than to profane the name of a Martini by using that Slavic Cleaning Solution, Vodka.

Obviously, the Gentleman understands that I could continue at length, so I will cut short here before entering into the more subjective realms of Art, Literature, and Culture, but the most Important thing I can leave the Gentleman with is that a True Gentleman always knows refinement is something that cannot be placed via adjudication upon a Body, but is instead that wells up from the Depths of a Gentlemans Soul, so that it suffuses His Whole Being, and be He wearing motley or chains, His Bearing belies His physical Trappings.

Au Revoir,

L' Bon Vivant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290571)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:06 PM
Author: Elite laughsome voyeur corner

dood cayman is the coupe version of the boxter

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290282)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:07 PM
Author: Aquamarine boyish abode

You have obviously not seen either cars...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290285)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:22 PM
Author: Elite laughsome voyeur corner

O RLY?

"The two-seat Cayman S - Porsche's coupe version of the Boxster - will debut in September at the IAA in Frankfurt."

http://tinyurl.com/2ofz5a

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290344)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:24 PM
Author: Aquamarine boyish abode

I stand corrected...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290348)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:04 PM
Author: Stirring dun crotch

what about a 335i coupe?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290273)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:06 PM
Author: Aquamarine boyish abode

I'd get a cayman b4 a 335i...but then again I looove sports cars, and for the $ nothing drives as well as the cayman.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290280)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 2:09 PM
Author: Stirring dun crotch

if the cayman is your daily driver then it will annoy you after awhile. the ride is not that great

thats why i mentioned the 335 coupe

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290293)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 6:14 PM
Author: frisky legend

the exige does

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8291120)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 3:00 PM
Author: stimulating bossy hissy fit son of senegal

This thread is full of many douches.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290445)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 3:06 PM
Author: Lime rigpig state

The Gentleman who says such things reeks of Failure at the outset of the day.

Au Revoir,

L' Bon Vivant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290466)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 3:08 PM
Author: stimulating bossy hissy fit son of senegal

You're a fucking Melungeon schtick rehash. How lame.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290475)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 3:38 PM
Author: Lime rigpig state

I believe the Gentleman is quite mistaken, but the Gentleman may bear whichever beliefs He wishes, as it really has no effect other than adding further Vulgar Language to an already tainted forum of Discourse.

Au Revoir,

L' Bon Vivant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290579)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 3:08 PM
Author: Irate Senate Kitty Cat

the only two acceptable cars in this price range are the 335i convertible and A4 3.2 cabriolet.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8290473)





Date: June 23rd, 2007 6:31 PM
Author: Costumed mother

the 335i is a freak, but a convertible?

you a chick?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=648440&forum_id=2#8291182)