wow, that was a fast 5 replies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8350026)

It's not about process. Nobody's getting an A because they outworked law school. You might have to work to keep up with everything. You might be fine just reading for class and not even really looking at outlines until close to reading period (which is what I did). In either case, it's about knowing what works for you.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8350425)

read the posts of depression on jdunderground.com

also read this article by this guy tucker max who went to duke. honestly, law school really blows and so does the legal field in general. read this and also the posts on jdunderground.com and then post back if you still want to go and ill give you some advice for your 1L year

taken from www.tuckermax.com:

Should I go to law school? The Speech Text

Lots of people asked to see the text of the speech I gave. This is what I wrote out and took in with me to the speech. During the actual speech I expanded on some areas and went on a few tangents, but this is very much the drift of my speech.

"Should I go to law school?

Whenever I am asked this question, my initial response is always the same:

FUCK NO!

-All jokes aside, I can say that for 90% of you, law school is--without a doubt--the wrong choice.

-How do I know this without even knowing any of you? Well, not too long ago, I sat where you are sitting, thought all the things that you are thinking now, went to law school and worked as a lawyer. I have already been down the path that is in front of you and I know what it's like. I know the decision making process that is going on in your mind, and chances are, you are going to law school for the wrong reasons.

-When deciding if law school actually is for you, the first thing you need to do is ask yourself, "Why do I want to go to law school?" There are many more wrong answers to this question than right answers, but almost all the wrong answers fit under six main reasons:

1. "I don't know what else to do": If you are lost in your life, that is ok, you shouldn't feel bad about it. You are barely old enough to drink, you don't need to know what you're going to do with your life at this point. Relax. I am 30, and I only figured it out a few years ago.

If you feel like you need more time to find your calling in life and figure out what you want to do, that is fine, but if this is true, the WORST thing you can do is commit to a three year school and over $150,000 in debt. How much sense does it that make? At that point, when you finish law school, even if you have decided that you don't want to be a lawyer, you are handcuffed to the profession. You have to take that six figure corporate job just to pay off the massive debt you racked up.

2. "It's the only way I can think of to use my humanities degree": Majoring in English so you had more time to drink wasn't such a good idea now, was it? But to be honest, having a soft major is nowhere near the death sentence that so many make it out to be. The world is changing, and the US economy with it. Most manufacturing and production jobs are moving off shore, and the hard science jobs required to staff them are being taken by Indians and Chinese and other cultures who actually require that their students learn something in science class. But the good news is that our economy is shifting to a service and information based economy, and soft majors are going to become more and more valuable.

I run an internet company right now, and I can tell you that it is VERY hard to find literate, intelligent, well read people who can write and communicate ideas effectively. The demand for these people is not going to flutter out. In plain English: A humanities major now has many many options that they didn't have in the pre-internet era. Do not make the mistake of thinking law school is your only option. That is not true.

3. "Everyone says I am good at arguing, so I should go to law school": I cannot recall a single person that has said this to me that I did not make want to punch in their mouth. Being a lawyer has almost nothing to do with arguing in the conventional sense, and very few lawyers ever engage in anything resembling "arguments" in their generally understood form. Beyond that, to be genuinely good at legal "arguing," you must be smart. I have never met a smart person who made this statement. This really is the stupidest reason you could possibly have to go to law school.

4. "I want to be like Ally McBeal or Jack McCoy from "Law & Order", or [insert your favorite Hollywood bullshit legal character from your favorite bullshit Hollywood legal drama]": Maybe I spoke too soon about the stupidest reason to go to law school. Let me just be very clear about this: Being a lawyer is NOTHING AT ALL like what you see on TV. If you don't understand this fact, it means you are an unrecoverable moron, and you should immediately drown yourself in the nearest toilet to save the world the frustration of having to deal with you and your stupidity.

5. "I want to change the world/help homeless people/rescue stray kittens/whatever": If you are one of those people...I feel sorry for you. Look, wanting to help others is fine and dandy, but if you are one of those rosey-eyed dipshits who sign anti-sweatshop petitions while wearing Nikes, you know what's going to happen when you try to change the world equipped with just a law degree and a healthy dose of optimism? Life is going to kick you in teeth. Repeatedly.

There are some people who have a very clear idea of what sort of public service they want to do and how a law degree will help them, and even those people usually find their dreams crushed against the rocks of reality. If you go at law school with just some vague notion of public service, I can promise you that you'll regret your decision. The first day at Duke, the entire 200+ person class was gathered in a class room and they asked everyone who wanted to be in public service to raise their hand. At least 80 people did. Do you know how many ended up in a public service job three years later? About 3 of them. 2 of them were the very dedicated type I referred to, the other was a trust fund baby who couldn't get a real job. Most people don't think about what $150,000 in debt actually MEANS until they are faced with the option of helping poor people for $30,000 a year, or helping Skadden Arps for $140,000 a year, while having to make 500+ a month loan payment.

and the very worst reason,

6. "I want to make a lot of money": You can unquestionably make a lot of money being a lawyer. Right out of law school even, you can get a job with a big corporate firm that pays $120,000+ to start. Sounds like a lot doesn't it? But have you not stopped and thought about why they pay so much? Do you think it's because the job is rewarding and fulfilling? Didn't your parents ever tell you what it means when something looks too good to be true? There is a reason that there are so many lawyer jokes. There is a reason that the legal profession has one of the lowest job satisfaction rankings of any profession in America. There is a reason that so many lawyers leave the legal field: Being a lawyer--especially a lawyer at the type of big corporate firm that pays so well-- SUCKS.

The American Bar Association has published several studies about the incredibly low job satisfaction of lawyers and in every survey they publish, most lawyers say that they would NOT be a lawyer if they had it all to do over again. Just look at my specific example: Of my ten closest friends from law school, the ones I always write about like PWJ and SlingBlade, only 4 are still practicing law. Five years out of law school, and only 40% are still doing what they racked up a six figure debt to learn how to do. I don't really follow anyone else in my graduating class because most of them were worthless pricks, but from what I understand, the others are just like us: Most are now doing something else.

But beyond that, there are NOT an unlimited number of jobs that start at $120,000 a year. In fact, there aren't many at all, and pretty much ALL of them go to kids who come from the Top 15 law schools. If you go to a law school that is even in the bottom of the first tier, unless you are top 10% of your class or on law review, you are probably fucked. Really. I cannot be any clearer about this: YOU ARE NOT GUARANTEED A JOB OUT OF ANY LAW SCHOOL, MUCH LESS A JOB THAT PAYS SIX FIGURES. They aren't going to tell you that at law school receptions, but it is the truth.

-If any of these reasons are factors into why you are going to law school, stop now. Seriously. No qualifiers on this statement, just stop. Plain and simple, don't go.

-OK, but let's say that none of the ridiculous reasons I listed above apply to you, that you want to go to law school for a what you consider a valid reason. I know when I was in undergrad, I had what I thought was a great reason to be a lawyer: I wanted to be the next great American trial lawyer. I intended to model myself after Vince Bugliosi (in case you don't know, Vince Bugliosi wrote Helter Skelter, prosecuted Charles Manson and the Palmrya murders and is generally regarded as the best prosecutor in American legal history) and fight the same battles that he fought.

Well, I was wrong. I quickly realized that being a prosecutor sucks and it takes years to try murder cases if you ever get that opportunity, all while working just as hard as your corporate brethen, for a pittance of what they make. Beyond that, the system is totally fucked up in many many ways. Granted, someone needs to fight that battle, but by the end of first year I determined that it wasn't going to be me.

So, being in law school, I decided to do what everyone else was doing and be a corporate lawyer. Hated it. Got fired after three weeks. It was just awful. Law school is full of small, pedantic, little dorks and corporate firms are no different, except here they are in charge. It SUCKS.

-If you think you have a good reason to go to law school, the best advice I can give you is this: Work first. Preferably in a law firm, either as a paralegal or a secretary or even a gopher. Do it as a summer intern or full time for a year or so after undergrad. Explore what it is actually like being a lawyer, not by asking lawyers or reading books, but by immersing yourself in the actually day to day life of a lawyer.

Think about it: When you go clothes shopping, you don't just walk around and grab whatever looks good on the rack and buy it, do you? No, you try things on, you deliberate over your options, and you consider all possibilities. Why do you think life is any different? Stop trying to pick out your life off the rack; go out and experience all sorts of different things, try on different jobs and see what fits. If, after trying it on, you still want to be a lawyer, then by all means, go for it. You're probably making the right decision at that point. But I can promise you that if spending some time working in a firm were a requirement for admission to law school, the application rate would probably drop by at least 80%. What does that tell you about whether or not you should go to law school?

-All this being said though, I had a great time in law school itself. Law school is a fucking joke; if anyone tells you different they are either lying or they are stupid. It's REALLY easy. By second semester of my first year I'd stopped going to class, and by second year I'd stopped buying my books altogether. I had many classes where if my exam where to pick my professor out of a line-up, I'd have failed. How do you think I got all these great stories? Not by going to class. My friends I went out 4 nights a week it was so easy. Of course, I went to a Top 10 school, which most people don't go to, and I got lucky in that I had a crew of ten friends who were all awesome. I have had several friends go to other law schools, very good ones and very bad ones, and not many shared my experience. And even the ones who did very much enjoy law school, hated their lives after law school. Why? Because they went on to be lawyers.

-Here is the funny thing about this speech: Someone--in fact, a lot of people--told me all of this before I applied to school. I did not discover any of the points I am making to you. Every bit of it was conferred to me BEFORE I got to law school

You know what I did? I fucking ignored it. I mean, sure all of those other douche bags may be miserable and may hate the legal profession, but what do they know, they're only lawyers? I AM TUCKER FUCKING MAX, I'm going to revolutionize this bitch!

Yeah...how'd that work out for me? You can believe me now or you can experience first hand, but you'll eventually see that I am right.

-I'll leave you with this last quote. I have a pretty big message board attached to my site, it gets like 30,000 people a day or so that view it, and many of them are disaffected lawyers. In response to a thread about this topic, one of them posted this paragraph:

"As I write this, it is 85 degrees, sunny, with a slight, cooling breeze coming from the West. The only reason I know this is that I took twenty minutes to run to get a sandwich to eat at my desk. I am sitting in a basement office which houses three of us, putting off research on state law fair debt collection vs. the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and the definition of a creditor to write this post. If that paragraph alone doesn't deter someone from law school, then I don't know what will.""

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8350139)

i wonder how many publishers had to tell him there isn't a market for books about duke law school

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8350220)

He has nothing to say. If you don't want to be $150,000 in debt, take a scholarship or go to a state school. For a guy who claims to have punked law school, one would think he would be smart enough to apply his book smarts to the real world and research these major decisions. Never mind, I remember this guy; he posted here once. Something about "3.9/173 from ivey; what are my chances?"

Only lawyers make legal practice out to be some thankless, toiling existence. PSA: if your work ethic sucks, then work sucks in general. It's as if lawyers don't know that most professions require longer hours and greater commitments than 40 hour punch-clock jobs. And yes, the world needs more obscure internet writers/communicators. Just the other day I saw a want ad for this booming and glamorous industry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8351873)

2) In the above article he says he went to LS to be a trial lawyer.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352277)

his 'concrete' reason for wanting to go to law school was pretty fucking stupid to begin with.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352285)

Correct.

Similarly, fucking around on ESPN.com and shoe sites does not count as "studying."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8351140)

law students should just just go where they can study, get their studying done, and go have fun with their lives.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8351192)

As one who conforms, perhaps naively, to the honor code, even to the point of eschewing substance abuse in order to improve exam performance (I wouldn't be surprised if people are using Aderall while preparing for exams, for example), I have to say that it really pisses me off that anyone is even seriously *considering* doing something like this. I mean, I know that the real world doesn't really give a shit, but come on, have some principles.

In any event, I have to say that coming to XOXO, a known haunt of at least some Chicago-affiliated employees, possibly including faculty, and saying, "Hey, I think I'm going to consider violating the honor code next time," is seriously stupid. You're jeopardizing the way we do things here -- do you want ExamSoft on your laptop? Do you want to jeopardize our ability to use electronic documents during exams (that is, hotlinked outlines and collapsible outlines, spreadsheets too large to fit on a sheet of paper, etc.)? If you're going to cheat, at least be quiet about it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8358906)

Just to give you guys fair warning, the answer to this is yes.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8359001)

2) don't listen to people who say you don't have time to use your outlines on your exams. if it's open book, make a table of contents, look quickly for the point of law you need, go to that page, and copy the point(s). if you are so pressed for time that you can't spend five seconds per point of law looking at your outline, you're not going to do well regardless.

3) if (and only if) a prof says they give participation bumps, talk nearly every day - just once or twice a class. wait until they ask fairly straightforward questions, and raise your hand when you know the answer. don't give stupid hypos, or ask dumb questions, just nail a few points of law a week. this can easily be the difference between being outside the top 1/3 and well inside the top 1/4. if you get two bumps as a 1L, you can go from around top 1/4 to inside the top 10%. i've never understood why people don't do this. grades means so much, and this is the easiest way to raise your grades. that bad day in crim means you get a B+ instead of a B. rock that K's exam? now you've got an A+ on your transcript.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8351862)

1) DO get stressed out, but use the stress to motivate you. You are graded against your peers in law school and need to be cognizant of this starting day one. No, this does not mean you should have a Jesse Spano-style panic attack while hyped up on pep pills, but you need to be on your game everyday because if you fall behind, you are essentially screwed. It is extremely difficult/impossible to recover from a bad IL year. Come to class everyday having read the material multiple times and briefed the relevant cases/summarized the relevant readings. Unless you think you are substantially smarter than all of the people that got the same LSAT/GPA, which you are not, you are going to need to work harder to seperate yourself.

2) DO listen to people who didnt have time to use their outlines on the exam. They say this because it is generally true that you wont have time to sit back and look at your outline during the exam. The above poster is correct in that you will want to reference it for its TOC and certain points of law that are too detailed to bother memorizing, but do not go in planning to rely on an outline. You will have 3-4 hours to show what you know and will need a huge amount of that time analyze the unique facts of the exam questions.

3) DO NOT be a douche bag and talk everyday. Seriously, STFU and listen. If you do well on the exam, the professor will give you the A, even if he could not pick you out of a police line-up. Similarly, if you run your ignorant mouth everday about your opinion of the UCC (which will make your classmates hate you), and have a weak exam, HE IS STILL GOING TO GIVE YOU A B-. This will not change.

Good luck.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352229)

1)

>if you fall behind, you are essentially screwed.

no shit. that's why the most important thing is not to fall behind. but if you keep up, there's no reason to be stressed. the material isn't difficult. any reasonably intelligent person can understand all of the 1L material at a decent depth.

>Unless you think you are substantially smarter than all of the people that got the same LSAT/GPA, which you are not, you are going to need to work harder to seperate [sic] yourself.

no, you just need to work better, and smarter. the people who work the hardest do fairly poorly on exams because they fill their heads with irrelevant knowledge and get so stressed that they forget to apply the law to the facts.

2)

>You will have 3-4 hours to show what you know and will need a huge amount of that time analyze the unique facts of the exam questions.

if you're looking in your outline for how to apply the law to the facts presented in the exam, then you're pretty retarded. an outline should just be all the black letter law from each course. no theory, no policy (unless your prof tests heavily on policy), no hypos. just flip to the page, get the elements and exceptions you need, and spend your time doing the analysis. this is a much more efficient approach than trying to spend ten minutes recalling the elements of adverse possession, which have escaped your immediate grasp due to the stress of the situation.

3)

>if you run your ignorant mouth everday [sic] about your opinion of the UCC (which will make your classmates hate you),

and i specifically said not to ask stupid questions or give hypos (should have specified not giving opinions as well). but several times a class, most profs will throw out questions like "is this easement appurtenant or in gross" or "is X guilty of murder of manslaughter" - these are the questions you can just answer quickly to move the discussion on. if anything, your clueless classmates will appreciate you giving the correct answers, so they can type that information into their notes. and why settle for getting an A in a class? if the prof gives a participation bump, that A+ looks a lot better (and yes, i did have one as a 1L, which was the result of a bump).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352302)

1) "the people who work the hardest do fairly poorly on exams because they fill their heads with irrelevant knowledge and get so stressed that they forget to apply the law to the facts"

--Sort of. Yes, some people work hard and lose sight of what is really important. Is there a perfect correlation between time spent studying and grades? No, but there is indeed some correlation. If you are smart, you will learn the basics and continue learning them by doing practice tests, E&E's etc. I dont advise committing Prosser and Keeton to memory, but dont think you can just learn the basics and move on. LS is on a curve and if you want to to stand out, you need to work harder and smarter. If it was as simple as "learning the basics" everyone would learn the black letter and get A's, but it doesnt work that way.

2) Yeah, I pretty much said that, so Im unsure as to why you have a problem with my statement. I said you could use it to go through a list of things like the elements of adverse possession, but, for most of us, if you do some practice tests and read over your outline, you wont need to bother b/c you will have memorized this stuff without trying. What you cannot do, for instance, is not have a firm understanding of what a covenant running with the land is and hope to rely on a definition in your outline during the exam. Again, I made this distinction above and you claim I dont get it, but went on to repeat what I said.

3) "if anything, your clueless classmates will appreciate you giving the correct answers, so they can type that information into their notes" HAHAHA. Really? do people go up to you and say "thanks, so and so, I really appreciate you answering those questions. I just type them right into my notes!" No, the probably laugh at how big of a tool you are. I dont know of a school that actually gives a bump for answering one or two simple questions a class, despite professors slipping that into the syllabus. But, if you want to gun for that and be looked at as a douche, go for it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352959)

#1 - Don't get stressed out. Don't be a slacker and ignore law school, but stay relaxed and just keep chugging along. And, as I said above, I don't recommend coming to class having read things multiple times/briefing.

#2 - I use my outlines constantly during exams. I don't memorize any case names. I have a good enough grasp of the law that I know what the answers probably are and where to find them, but I'm otherwise continuously referencing my outline (which is why I take the time to make a good one).

(Although the moral of the story may be: Do what works for you)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352364)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352970)

Don't put in too much time up front. Typically, I just go once through the assigned reading before class. I don't take notes, highlight, or outline; I just do the reading.

You don't have to be as extreme about this (a lot of people at least like to write margin notes), but *do not* spend hours a day preparing for class. This is, IMO, completely wasted time. What matters is your profs' view of the law, so spend your study time after you get their input.

If you're not spending hours a day preparing for class, you'll easily have time to enjoy yourself. This will make a big difference in your QoL.

EDIT: And as a corollary to this, which someone mentioned above, don't compare yourself to everyone else around you. Just because some people are spending their lives in the library doesn't mean you need to do that to be successful.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352188)

2) Study aids: ask around about usefule study aids. use them, but only to clarify a point of law you're confused about. personally, i used the study aids only for the review questions. check out cali.org; this site paid off big time.

3) Briefing: don't brief too much. my "briefs" were just a few lines that stated the facts, concise rule, and maybe a few other interesting points. your briefs for con law will be longer than your briefs for civ pro or torts; unless you're briefing con law cases, your brief should never be more than 5 lines long.

4) talking in class: DON'T talk more than once a class., as the poster above suggested. personally, i like to talk a lot. no one will notice if you talk once every other class as long as you're not a douchebag, and aren't giving an opinion on what you think the law should be. instead, ask an intelligent question that you genuinely are confused over and what like to know the answer to (it's a fine art: don't ask a stupid question that you should know from reading the case but also don't ask a question that shows you've been reading a treatise and doesn't apply to the in-class material). some of your classmates might even be greatful because they have similar questions, but do NOT ask questions just to hear your voice.

5) go out at least once a week to socialize. if you don't feel like going out more than once, at least take a second evening off just to fuck around on aim, watch sports center, or post on aa about wgag.

6) study groups...do NOT use them to understand the law during the term. they are only helpful at the end of the term for two things. first, to answer concrete questions that you still may have--but make sure you have a concrete list going into the study group so everyone knows what the 'agenda' will be. otherwise, you risk wasting a lot of time shooting the breeze. second, have specific exam questions that you guys can answer as a group. but, as i said above, it's generally a waste of time to meet during the term.

7)i go to mvpb, top 10%. i asked for advice last year, and got plenty of it from this board...pass the karma on next year to other clueless 0Ls.

Edit: I also completely agree with what the poster above me aid about not comparing yourself to others. Definitely do your best. Other people will take it very seriously and study a lot, but their studying will probably be studying treatises or other useless material (or just fucking around on espn.com in the library). do your best and enjoy law school as much as you can...and try to make friends at the beginning of school, too.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352267)

1) Be conscious of whether this is a question that needs to be asked and answered in class now vs. one that should be asked after class. A question that clarifies what the prof just said and will be useful moving forward is a good in-class question; a question that diverges from what you are talking about in class should be saved for after-class.

2) Plan out your question in advance. It is infuriating when people raise their hands, get called on, and then seem to not know what they want to say or ask. Also, don't provide a hypothetical UNTIL your prof makes clear that he didn't understand your question. Usually just asking the question itself is fine, without a "for example, imagine . . . ." type follow-up.

I make the above suggestions as an admitted gunner in reform.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352283)

Personally, study groups aren't my cup of tea, but I know some people love em.

Finally, if you're going to sleep around with your classmates, do it early. Chicks only get fatter as the 3 years of law school go by, and those first few weeks are a drunken haze for everyone, and you can get away with a lot. Go for the kill immediately.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352417)

DO NOT DO THIS

I have to admit, I did this a bit the first semester and, while I did well, I didn't do as well as I thought I could have. People keep telling you law school is totally different from anything else you've done in school, but that's not totally true. Do what works for you, and figure it out as early as possible. If you look at the responses, they're all somewhat different, and there's a reason for it. Some of the things I did that some people might disagree with:

1. I briefed pretty much every case. Some might think it was a waste, but I'm one of those people that needs to write something down to remember it.

2. I didn't really outline. I did outline first semester, but I ended up not really using it. Instead, I used my briefs and notes from class and came up with a 3-5 page checklist for every class about a week before the final, and this is what I used on the test.

3. I never talked in class unless called on. Even if participation "counts" in your grade, your teacher probably won't remember you unless you talk every class multiple times, and even then you might not get a grade bump because I can guarantee you there are people going into office hours all the time in addition to talking in class. To me, it's not really worth it unless there's a teacher you particularly like.

4. Try to find some non-law school friends. I know this may be impossible if you go to a place like Duke or UVA, but I think it was good for me. Law school is kind of like high school in that it can get somewhat cliquish, so when you really don't give a shit where you stand outside of your friends at school, it can lessen the stress a bit.

Edit: Upon further review, Duke and UVA should be some of the easiest places to find friends outside of law school. Maybe a place isolated from a big city and not connected to the undergrad campus

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352320)

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=653745&mc=119&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352337)

However, those shitty schools make for much better bar prep.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352483)

Will I be relatively safe from the nefarious closed-book exam at a T14?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352502)

Before exams do the barbri review tapes/ipod things. They will help you understand the big picture. Ignore the rest and you will at least be in the top 75%.

I can't stress this enough, learn with a goal toward understanding the big picture of each subject. Then and only then drill down a bit and pick up some exceptions. Don't get lost in minor details. Most students will miss the main point of the question on the exam or will write something that sounds ridiculous because they have no idea what they are talking about (and it shows).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8352477)

I think a lot of my A's attributed to analyzing the black letter law, but also stepping back and pointing out the obvious. You'd be surprised how often you can rack up easy points by doing this.

Go for the low hanging fruit before you even start attempting the really hard issues.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8353859)

Ignore everyone! It doesn't matter who is in the library friday & saturday night, it doesn't matter who writes 5 page summaries of the reading for every class, it doesn't matter who records the prof and spends 6 hours transcribing tapes later. (btw-people ACTUALLY do all these things) If you do these things, that's fine. But only do them because that's what works for you--not because you THINK you have to.

My personal process (top 15% after 1L):

1. class preparation--I read most of the materials, and made notes in the margins. I didn't brief or outline as i went along. This (IMO) is a good way to prepare for the possibility of being called on in class. But usually your briefs will be completely irrelevant by the time exams roll around--you will prob have one or two take away pts from each case, if that.

2. class-- went to most of the classes (important! unless your prof is ONLY about black letter law or something like that), but didn't worry too much about writing everything the prof said, it was most helpful to me to try to follow the dialogue--why is she asking these qs? If i was being called on, what would I say? Sometimes it was helpful to make a note of the 2-3 take home pts from the day.

3. outlining- I outlined diff for every class. One class I didn't write a page--another I spent 3 weeks making a 120 pg treatise. These two routes are not typically the way to go--but I thought they were appropriate for my particular profs & classes (and they worked for me). My advice is to think about the prof, listen to upperclassmen who took the class, and tailor your outlining to that.

4. study aides--really depends upon the prof/class. if the prof has a favorite that she puts on the syllabus/discusses in class--by all means get it and know it well. For me, they helped at the VERY end of the semester, to help fill in the gaps. Sometimes I would look at them before class to refresh my memory, or if I didn't understand the reading.

5. study group-For me- not helpful during the semester. I don't outline/brief during classes, and I put the info together last minute (last 2 weeks before exams). So meeting with people who were at diff stage than me was stressful/pointless. VERY HELPFUL to go over exams right before each test.

6. TAKE PRACTICE EXAMS. Do a few with the actual time constraints, and go over them w/ study group after. The most important thing to doing well on an exam is knowing EXACTLY what to expect. The best feeling on a test is when you get a question that you could answer in your sleep because you've practiced that type 4 or 5 times in the last couple of days. (However, there's no substitute for thinking critically about the question at hand--don't miss important details/new twists on an old question because you are rewriting answers from old exams).

Don't get down on yourself. The kid that you think is so SOOO SMART really isn't that smart. (ok, some are that smart. but it's not the arrogant one that doesn't friggin shut up...). That being said, don't write someone off because they go out wed-sat, act like an idiot at the bar, or say dumb things when called on in class. It is generally true that class performance DOES NOT match up w/ grades. Ask any prof and they'll tell you that they are often surprised with who the As turn out to be.

In conclusion, this is my advice & it worked for me. If you know yourself, and you know these things wouldn't work for you--then do what you think is best. It's all about blocking everyone else out and doing it your way. Best of Luck.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8355636)

>>Ignore everyone! It doesn't matter who is in the library friday & saturday night, it doesn't matter who writes 5 page summaries of the reading for every class, it doesn't matter who records the prof and spends 6 hours transcribing tapes later. (btw-people ACTUALLY do all these things) If you do these things, that's fine. But only do them because that's what works for you--not because you THINK you have to.<<

Particularly that last sentence.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8356362)

Studied my ass off for finals--read through and outlined answers to about five practice exams. That was enough to give me a sense of what to expect. For the last practice exam for each class I took, I wrote the first page or so of each answer so I wouldn't freeze up come exam day (I learned that in undergrad, as starting the writing is always the hardest part because the first paragraph you write always goes the slowest).

I worked for three years before coming back to law school, which I'm convinced was extremely helpful for learning to budget work and play. I basically tried to work eight hours of day, class time included, then I'd fuck around, watch TV, read XOXO, and then go out drinking most evenings. Oh and speaking of which, learning to work while hung over is absolutely critical. Just learn how to do that, and you're gold.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8358975)

2) Not doing practice exams. Some professors are extremely predictable in how they grade their exams, and in the questions they ask. If they are lazy, they may even "recycle" questions. Also, some professors will make it pretty clear what they like to see on exams. Doing well on exams is sometimes a function of putting on paper what the professor wants to see, both in detail and in organization. if the prof doesn't make this clear, ask people who did well in his/her classes in previous years.

3) Thinking that LSAT performance will predict your 1L performance.

4) Being too anal too early in the semester. As long as you keep up with the reading and outlining, you should be able to keep partying until 3 weeks or so before finals. And no one uses multiple highlighters after the first month.

5) Having too large a study group. One or two people is best. Make sure they are people who you can trust, and who won't email your outline to the entire class.

6) Only share outlines sparingly. Remember, you worked hard on this outline. If you know you have a good one, only share it with a few people, if you share it at all. 1L is a competition and you have to force yourself to be a bit competitive unless you're at a school where bottom 10% = Skadden.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8358995)

I think (6) is a bad attitude, myself. I am pro-sharing. Karma and all.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8359072)

For 6: You have to be judicious with the people you share your outlines with. You don't want a complete slacker to get his/her hands on something that took you half a semester to complete. Share outlines with a few study partners and the girl who had to miss 2 weeks of class to go to the hospital. In a class where the curve is tight, you don't want to give a leech any extra advantage.

This is advice on how to do well in law school, not on how to be a good person. 1L is primarily about looking after yourself. It helps greatly to have a few close friends in your section to study with, who can help you with material you're struggling with (and vice versa). But don't go out of your way to help everyone.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8359099)

You're what we in the real world call "a sucker"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8359111)

EDIT: Another way to describe what I'm saying is this. What's common mistake to avoid? Don't compromise your character. In five, ten years, you aren't going to look back and think, "Shit, if I didn't share that outline in K's, I might have had an A instead of an A-." You might think, "Man, I was a miserable douche in law school. Why did I make such a big deal about such stupid stuff?"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8359122)

where did the "bulk" of your outlines come from? how did you learn all the black letter law you need to know for each topic? i used to rely mostly on study guides and got meh grades as a result.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8359089)

Author: HYSCCNanon

I start with the syllabus, as I think most people probably do. I sometimes skim the cases (sometimes google/wikipedia or something), spending no more than 3 minutes per case. Then I'll look at (but not take) a few practice exams to get a sense for what's tested. Then I'll start making a <10 page first cut outline, which is mostly checklist style, but more detailed on the areas that are more likely to be tested. This is where I use the supplements. Any area I don't understand, I turn to the supplement, read the relevant section, and then go back to the skimming cases for a bit.

After I get through a <10 pager, I like to make a 2-4 page outline/checklist. Then I practice exams. I actually write full answers (this is the bulk of my time studying) to every exam I practice. I do as many as are available, but I'd probably do no more than 10 if more than 10 were available. If I'm really doing well after 3 or 4, I stop. There's no point in killing yourself if you've already got it. Then maybe I'll skim the supplements.

I'm not a fan of E&E by the way.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=653745&forum_id=2#8342715)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8359110)

Your outline should be a compilation of the class notes and the casebook. Use the syllabus to guide you.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8359139)

Do not just hang out with other 1Ls. Get to know the upperclassmen. Not only are they a source of advice, but they are invaluable as friends around the time when all the other 1Ls are freaking out. You need someone to take you out to a bar a week before your legal writing assignment is due to keep you chilled out—and that's what 3Ls are for.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=654411&forum_id=2#8380221)