The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
|
 |
 
|
Rate my plan (TTT grad)
Poast new message in this thread
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:31 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part $240k after undergrad plus 3 years of Seton Hall law school. Can't get a good job, so I'm doing an LLM for another $55k. With interest I'll owe over $315K after the LLM. If I still don't get a good job after the LLM, I'm going to defer loans due to unemployment and travel the world on my $50k credit line. Ultimately, if I don't get a good legal job, I'll take a shitty job, consolidate, declare bankruptcy after making an "attempt" to pay, and let them garnish my shitty wage. They can only take about 15% of my wages, due to the CCPA, so they're basically fucked.
A way to pwn the lenders?
Edit: I see there are a number of people who don't get it, so I'm going to add to my post.
Option 1 = Take crappy $50k job now and pay over half my income to banks.
Option 2 = Either (a) Get good job with LLM or (b) Spend two years getting LLM, partying, and traveling the world in style. Then get $50k job, consolidate and declare bankruptcy. Under option two, federal law prevents banks from taking more than about 15%. As icing, the judge might even use his discretion to dismiss some of my loans or provide me other relief to protect my law license.
Thus option two = me dealing with shitty situation by fucking banks in the ass.
What's funny is that due to travel, I may even find a job in another country. That would be the ultimate assfucking for the banks. |
 |
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:34 PM Author: Dashing Red Trust Fund $50k credit line? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578828) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:35 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part If you add up all my credit card limits it's like $50k. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578834) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:45 PM Author: Dashing Red Trust Fund how many cc's do you have? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578893) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:57 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Six. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578988) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:37 PM Author: laughsome home why are you so stupid? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578841) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:37 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Why is this stupid? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578845) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:38 PM Author: laughsome home you went to seton hall, dummy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578850) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:40 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part That's all water under the bridge. What are your thoughts on my plan to pwn the bank? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578857) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:41 PM Author: laughsome home how on earth could a plan that includes "declare bankruptcy" be good? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578865) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:42 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Do you have a better plan? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578875) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:44 PM Author: laughsome home 1. Don't get the LLM if you can't afford it.
2. Bite the bullet and take the 50k job (hey it's 20k higher than the median American salary)
3. Live a paltry lifestyle for a few years, save up
4. Buy a decent house with some of that money.
5. Don't declare bankruptcy. Do you want to rent the rest of your life? Jesus, man. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:46 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part You are a retard at math.
If I don't get the LLM, I take a $50k job now, and pay over half of my income to student loans.
If I do my plan, I take a $50k job after two years of LLM partying and credit card funded travel, and pay 15% of my income to student loans.
Now I know this is hard for you, but which is the better deal? Second option = me fucking banks in teh ass. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:49 PM Author: laughsome home A SeTTTon Hall grad calling me a retard?
CAN YOU REPEAT THAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE DEFEANING RAWR OF THE ROFLCOPTER!!!!!! |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:50 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Sorry you can't do basic arithmetic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578942) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:18 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth ROFLs. TITCR.
Why the fuck would you go to law school at Seton Hall if you knew you would probably end up getting a 50K job with all that debt? Did you really think you would finish at the top of your class?
KILLSELF |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:20 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap You could say the same thing for Brooklyn, Cardozo, St Johns, Rutgers, etc. There are 200 law schools... if people at schools ranked around #60 can't pay back their debt, imagine what's going on below that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579526) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:29 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth There should be massive suicides for law students that can't get jobs. I would never go to school outside T30 and that is such a fucking stretch.
Edit: People should not be going to these schools if they don't have parents willing to pay the bill. The return is not there. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:29 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap That's like 3/4 of law students. I don't disagree but that's a huge suicide, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579579) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:32 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth I know...it's what they deserve for not planning out their future adequately. If you know you want to be a lawyer and do public defense and you know you are going to owe 150K when you graduate. Why the fuck are you going to law school.
Whoops, I overused the word "know." These People don't "know" anything or else they never would have gone. Eventually people will start to see this as schools are forced to publish reliable salary information. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:34 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap Do you think schools will ever publish reliable info? Who will make them, other law schools? Other lawyers (attorney generals)? Doubtful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579605) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:43 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth Our government. Maybe there will be a lawsuit and Courts will rule they have to publish real information. Maybe Congress will step in. All these people are lawyers and they have an interest in stopping TTTs from injecting more trash into our profession. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579676) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:48 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part See OP for a way to make it all work for your benefit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579700) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:51 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth How stupid? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579715) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 1:29 PM Author: Talking locale hmm...i lulzed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9581751) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:53 PM Author: Aquamarine hall goal in life i see the logic in your plan but do you ever plan on buying anything on credit? (house, car etc.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578959) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:57 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Obviously not, but it's not like the first option would have left me with any money to save, or to buy a house with.
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:58 PM Author: Aquamarine hall goal in life your plan might make sense anyhow. you likely could'nt get a 50k job anyways. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578991) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:01 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part You don't think a JD + LLM can get a $50k job? Even if, that just means the banks get fucked harder in the ass. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579008) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:02 PM Author: Aquamarine hall goal in life maybe the banks get fucked harder in the ass then. but no, i do'nt think a jd/llm could necessarily get a 50k job if those degrees came from shitty schools.
how would you even get into an llm program? do you have shitty grades? |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:04 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Then wouldn't that make my plan even smarter? If I don't do my plan, I have to declare bankruptcy this fall. If I do my plan, I declare bankruptcy in two years.
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:59 PM Author: provocative range rigor "bite the bullet and take a 50K job?"
ROFL |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:42 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area titcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578876) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:43 PM Author: insanely creepy deer antler box office buy a house in florida or somewhere where its protected from bankruptcy outright for 50k. at least you will have a house to go to when you declare and not be on the street. also see if you can get a refi so you dont have student loans but a regular loan before you declare. then it gets wiped out.
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:44 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Are you an idiot? I won't be on the street when I declare bankruptcy. I'll be making like $50k at a shitty job. Then when I declare, the banks will have to sue to garnish my wages, and they're capped at like 15%. I'll easily be able to afford rent with what's left. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:46 PM Author: insanely creepy deer antler box office let me see. wage slave with garnish or person owning his own house with no garnish. mhmm...gee...i wonder which i should choose.
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:47 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Wow at the financial retards on this board above. See http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&mc=17&forum_id=2#9578908
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:49 PM Author: Crawly chapel lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578933) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:54 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part It's a good plan right? I don't know why more TTTs don't do it.
If I work this fall, I'm fucked in the ass. I'll be making $50k and paying over half of it to the banks.
If I do my plan, I get to party it up for two years, on the banks, then fuck them in the ass when they try to collect. Consumer Credit Protection Act Pwned! |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:03 PM Author: odious private investor lulz at the thought of you pwning anything (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579030) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:07 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Sorry you're too dumb to see that $50k after two years of partying with 15% wage garnish is better than $50k now with half the income going to loans.
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:53 PM Author: laughsome home lol you linked to yourself dumbass! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578961) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:58 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part That's the point. You are one dumb motherfucker. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578990) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:25 PM Author: laughsome home what the fuck? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579192) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:53 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area save up some money and go solo, or start a completely unrelated business. where is your american entrepreneurial spirit?
your student loan debt is cheap money. what are you paying on it, 6%? As long as you're making a greater return than that, just make the minimums.
This douche went to Tulane and drives a fucking rolls royce: http://www.glenlerner.com. just get some balls and do it. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:57 PM Author: laughsome home I hope that guy dies.
Also, nice soul patch on the guy on the front page. What a bunch of ambulance- chasing losers. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:03 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area http://www.glenlerner.com./glen_lerner_case_results.html
Multiply just those numbers by 30% (and I'm sure there's plenty of smaller cases too) and he's easily pulling down a few million a year. He's making biglaw partner profits.
If went to law school just to make money, personal injury is the way to go. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:58 PM Author: brindle center http://www.glenlerner.com./vegas_attorney_marc_grossman.html
lol^1 million |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:49 PM Author: wine stage Umm, I think you forgot to notice that there are 13 other lawyers at the firm the need to get paid. Take 30%, cut out a couple million (for salary, benefits, and overhead), and that's what the guy is taking home. He's still probably doing pretty well, but I doubt it's biglaw partner profits. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579951) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 9:46 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area Eh, he's moving into a $20 million house, after deciding his $4.9 million house wasn't good enough.
http://www.lvrj.com/real_estate/11542931.html (about 2/3's the way down)
And, like I said, he drives a black Rolls Royce. I think he's easily making low to mid 7-figures. (His claim manager, as posted earlier, averages $7 mil. a year in settlements, so *that* guy is making over $2 mil.) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:58 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part You people are seriously retards at math.
You can't save money when you make $50k and half of that goes to student loans. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:02 PM Author: odious private investor yeah the average american saves zero money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579013) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:06 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area you just said you have $50k line of credit available. plus, if you're really paying more than half of your income to student loans, you can financial hardship defer them.
just admit it, you don't have the balls to strike out on your own. that's why you went to law school in the first place, cause you thought it was safe. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:08 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part FYI, using a credit line =/= saving money. It = borrowing more money. Sorry for the confusion.
Also, you really should learn how to add and multiply. If you respond to my situation by telling me to start my own firm, the you are a math retard. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:12 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area yeah, but you were going to do this anyways. just admit it you don't have the courage to go out on your own. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579075) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:13 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Does courage = money where you're from? If not, retake 2nd grad math.
"So you don't have any money. Just start your own firm." Damn you're a financial retard. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:21 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area funny, i'm not the one with $240k of debt from Seton Hall, considering taking on another $55k of debt and then declaring bankruptcy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579155) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:03 PM Author: provocative range rigor wow. i hope those guys die. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579027) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:13 PM Author: odious private investor if you could make it rain i'm sure you'd be hated too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579087) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:57 PM Author: ungodly costumed address pocket flask holy shit, this is a goldmine.
http://www.glenlerner.com/glenlerner_commercials_main.html
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:04 PM Author: Exhilarant Keepsake Machete Lodge I like his baseball commercial, but the "homerun" he hits for his clients looked more like a weak pop up to the short stop. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579430) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:27 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area He's been before the bar several times for how bad his ads are:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/02/ap/strange/mainD8G3O2KO2.shtml http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2006/aug/07/ads-so-tasteless-you-want-to-sue/ |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:02 PM Author: Exhilarant Keepsake Machete Lodge That guy really seems like an all-time douche bag. Masshole sports fan, practiced in the martial arts, ambulance chaser, wearing a guido suit over a stretchy black tshirt with a gold cross. I also like how he randomly quotes himself in the bio he wrote for himself: "I was number one in my class and got accepted at Harvard, Dartmouth, Stanford and Duke." |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:28 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area Notice, he went to Tulane. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579571) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:02 PM Author: Exhilarant Keepsake Machete Lodge I wonder how many times he mentioned he got into Harvard College while at Tulane. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579759) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:13 PM Author: Bat Shit Crazy Circlehead Chad You only one option for LLM.
Tax.
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:23 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Don't buy that bullshit. Tax LLM = shitty job at accounting firm, for the most part. I'm going to do an easy LLM and party. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579176) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:27 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth KILLSELF after you party and get LLM.
Everyone is telling you the right way.
1. Get a job and save up what you can. Declare bankruptcy and you won't be able to buy a house.
2. Start your own firm, but you seem to pussy or good to do so. Stuff your ego bitch. You graduated from Seton Hall with grades that can't get you a job. You are the type of lawyer that goes into personal injury!
3. Now someone is saying do a tax LLM and work for an accounting firm and you think this is stupid.
4. Only conclusion is that you're one of those schmucks who went to a severe TTT and thought that when you graduated you would get the 125K the school falsely advertises. You probably didn't even network cause then you would be working for a smaller firm earning 60K-80K.
5. KILLSELF. Just party, travel, then end your life because it seems like that is the option you have already chosen. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:29 PM Author: Aquamarine hall goal in life all this is credited. seems to explain the OP to a tee. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579577) |
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:48 PM Author: odious private investor i think it's hilarious you think a 50k job for you would be shitty. there's no way in hell you're getting a 50k job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578918) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:49 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Yeah I will. With a JD and LLM, in two years? I could easily get a $50k job right now.
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:52 PM Author: insanely creepy deer antler box office see this : http://www.alperlaw.com/constitutional_protection.html
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:55 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part I'd rather take two years to do a bullshit LLM while banging UGs and traveling.
Either way I'm eventually going to fuck the banks in the ass. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:54 PM Author: Aquamarine hall goal in life a 50k job doing exactly what? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578968) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:00 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part What? Are you kidding? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578999) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:00 PM Author: Aquamarine hall goal in life no i'm not. a 50k job doing exactly what? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579001) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:02 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part e.g. Madcat's job, doc review etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579023) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:04 PM Author: odious private investor madcat went to a tier 1. doc review is for tier 2. next (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579034) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:11 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Fine. And my school is on par with American. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579067) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:29 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap Madcat's school is what, 5 points higher than this guy's school? Seems irrelevant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579574) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:01 PM Author: odious private investor www.jdjinx.com
you're different from those jobless fags begging for a 50k job how? |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:00 PM Author: odious private investor point to one (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579000) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:01 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part You want me to point to a $50k job for a licensed attorney? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579011) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:02 PM Author: odious private investor a 50k job that a recent shitlaw grad like you can get, yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579020) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:05 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part legal aid? tiny DUI firm? I can think of tons. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579035) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:06 PM Author: odious private investor i can think of tons of tier 2 losers who would be happy with those jobs. next! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579042) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:10 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Your life is shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579057) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:12 PM Author: Aquamarine hall goal in life dude if you were literally going to kill self in the next 3-5 years i would say your plan makes perfect sense.
but you'll live at least another 40 or so years. you could just look at LS as a sunk cost and recover in about 10 years. by that time you'd probably be making decent money doing something else anyways.
but going your route you are going to be fucked FOR LIFE. have you considered that? |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:15 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Stupid, listen carefully because I'm tired of explaining this.
Option 1 = $50k job now with over 1/2 income going to student loan payments.
Option 2 = $50k job after two years of partying and traveling (in style) with 15% of income going to student loan payments.
Do you see? |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:18 PM Author: odious private investor i like how you're just neglecting the ramifications of bankruptcy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579118) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:21 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part I know. I'd much rather lose half of my money to student loans, then a measily 15%. Oh those ramifications.
Dumbass. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:25 PM Author: odious private investor yes those are the only ramifications ever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579196) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:45 PM Author: Hateful forum Bankruptcy isn't as bad as you fags think. I've had 100's of clients with BK's and they can buy houses/cars within 2 years after it is discharged. I sincerly hope this helps. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579686) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:48 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap Well how should/could this guy even declare bankruptcy? CH 13?
It's nondischargeable student loans, bro. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:52 PM Author: supple mental disorder student loans can be discharged, just at a higher standard than most other debt such as cc debt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579720) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:55 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap as a practical matter, it almost never happens. unless this guy has 2 or 3 kids and medical problems, it wont happen for him. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579733) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:19 PM Author: Aquamarine hall goal in life option 1: EVENTUALLY you will get your loans down, especially if you stop taking them out (eg: for a useless llm). once you do, you can do whatever you want after that.
option 2: fucked FOR LIFE. you will never be able to buy shit FOR LIFE. have you considered the ramifications of that?
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:25 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part "You will never be able to buy shit on credit FOR LIFE"
There, I fixed it for you. If I ever make any real money, I'll buy whatever I want, with or without bad credit. If I don't make any real money, I'll always be a poor, whether I buy on credit or not.
You don't actually own stuff you buy on credit. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:40 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area Eh, bankruptcy leaves your credit report after 7 years. it's not the end of the world. if you don't mind renting your home and buying your car with cash, it's not too bad. but you won't be able to get any credit, or if you do get some credit it will be at exorbitant rates.
now, i thought student loans couldn't be discharged by bankruptcy? You could pay off 50k worth if you used your credit cards, but that would only pay for the useless LLM. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:42 PM Author: 180 garrison Yeah but if the student loans don't get discharged then they stay on and if a wage garnishment is obtained, then if that garnishment of the 15% of earnings or whatever is not enough to pay down the loan then that information will stay on the credit report for life since every single paycheck garnished is a new adverse action triggering a new 7 year clock. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579307) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:45 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area ah gotcha. yeah, this is a retarded plan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579324) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:45 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Right, so the bank is fucked in the ass because they'll never get more than the interest payments until I start making money. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579327) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:15 PM Author: odious private investor my parents work 20 hours a week and make 7 figures. i've never filled out a fafsa form in my life. i have no idea what a stafford loan is. i'm sorry about your circumstances. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579098) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:00 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap Aren't you Sonic? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579406) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:53 PM Author: Chrome domesticated property Is there a way to perpetually stay in school?
I mean, just do all part time programs, do well on entrance exams (LSAT, SAT, GMAT, GRE, whatever).
I think if you planned it right, you could go your entire life as a student. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:54 PM Author: Beta bistre police squad area yeah, it's called becoming a professor. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578971) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 5:59 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part I thought of this, but I'm pretty sure they stop loaning you money at some point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9578996) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:02 PM Author: Chrome domesticated property It's not infinitely deferred as long as you're in school? I'm really asking, I have no experience with devious schemes like this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579018) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:05 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part But you have to pay for school. I think the banks just stop lending you money at some point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579038) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:05 PM Author: Deep resort doctorate Don't get the LLM. You already fell for the law school scam once. Did you not learn your lesson? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579036) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:09 PM Author: Chrome domesticated property I knew a ditchdigger once who dug a ditch so deep, he couldn't get out. Instead of crawling out slowly, he decided to dig himself out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579054) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:10 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part It's a no lose situation now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579061) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:12 PM Author: Chrome domesticated property You're very optimistic if you consider a plan in which yo declare bankruptcy a "no lose situation." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579073) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:17 PM Author: insanely creepy deer antler box office its not a bad plan if yuo do it right. e.g. dump low rate student loans with a high interest refi, buy a house in florida using the credit cards and declare bankruptcy. end up with zero owing, a decent house and potentially an ok job with a j.d. i cant see any problems with this route.
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:37 PM Author: 180 garrison There are a few problems:
1. Bankruptcy is an equitable remedy, so you need clean hands. If you rob Peter to pay Paul, you do not have clean hands so the whole pay off nondischargeable loans with dischargeable ones may land you in what is called an "adversarial proceeding" with the creditor and end with the debt not being discharged.
2. Bankruptcy destroys your credit for 10 years, and when the nondischarged debt becomes the subject of a wage garnishment and it turns out that 15% of your income isn't even enough to pay the interest, you find that you will have garnished wages for the rest of your life and therefore you will never be able to repair your credit. This is because info stays on credit report for 7 years from last "adverse action.." There will be a new adverse action every paycheck! Do you want to live on nothing but cash like a goddamn drug dealer for the rest of your life?
3. Everything you ever buy like a car or house or whatever from now on you either won't be able to get it or the interest will be like 30%+ cuz of your horrible credit. So getting that house to live in to grab the homestead exemption will be a tough proposition. C'mon you can't buy a house with a credit card, even if the limit is high enough (which I doubt could be, where even in FL can you find a 50k house?).. So since you don't own a home you must rent but OH NOES, most landlords check credit reports!
If you do this, yes, less of your income goes to loans. But in exchange you have no credit and are either homeless or renting from from a very shady asks-no-questions type of landlord. Bad call dude. And there you sit, alone, under your one bare light bulb, for the rest of your life. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:41 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part 1. Garnished wages @ like 15% which doesn't even pay interest = banks getting fucked in ass.
2. Credit is overrated. If you buy something on credit, you don't actually own it. If I ever make real money, I'll be able to buy what I want with cash.
3. The damage to your credit is overrated. There are a shit ton of consumer protection laws. I will be able to get an apartment, and I will be able to get cash credit cards. Maybe even real credit cards with a low limit.
4. Yes, bankruptcy is equitable. A JD/LLM making $50k is pretty sympathetic, and the judge may even discharge my loans.
Do you see? |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:43 PM Author: supple mental disorder I think judges see more hard-luck cases. The opposing side would bring up your lavish lifestyle for the past 2 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579314) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:46 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part I'm sorry, is this a retard convention? What lavish lifestyle? Getting an LLM and living off credit cards while I look for work?
Get a clue people. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:42 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth Earlier you said you would "travel" and "bang UGs." Obviously, you would be living lavishly.
You're so stupid. Proof
1. Went to Seton Hall 2. Did shitty at Seton Hall. Can't get job 3. Social retard. Can't network and get a job 4. Going to do an LLM and spend more money 5. Going to declare bankruptcy and live off the cash you probably won't have 6. Attacking everyone on board saying your plan is stupid. YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE THAT YOU ARE STUPID. This is your greatest weakness. Killself |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:47 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part I seriously doubt my partying is going to come up in the hearing. As far as they know I was a starving student scraping by.
What is the point of your six point list? Are you suggesting that'll come up at the hearing? |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:51 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth I suggesting that you are a moron.
Listen to people on the board. Stop bitching and take a hold of your life. You can screw yourself more or do what seems like the harder, yet right thing to do.
Get a job, pay your loans, start making money on the side with your degree (do will, or personal injury!). Do something. Be smart, don't be a retard. Bankruptcy seems like easier way out, but it is only a short term solution. You are going to screw yourself in the longrun. Your assertion that one can live without credit is so stupid. Furthermore, who is going to want to be with you if you have shitty credit. You may not be into marriage, but girls don't like guys with bad finances especially as you get older.
Stop being dumb and STOP CALLING EVERYONE ELSE STUPID. YOU ARE STUPID. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:53 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part "who is going to want to be with you if you have shitty credit."
lol. This was the cake. Wow at the virgin losers on xo. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:56 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth Excuse me stupid; yes girls with STDs and no teeth will fuck anybody. But no one legit wants a schmuck who graduates from a TTT, with very little income, and poor credit.
"the poor virgins of xo" are fucking hot bitches with no STDs cause we did not graduate from TTT |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:02 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part rofl. Virgins. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579755) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:11 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth ROFLs at your name.
"TTT grad with a ton of debt & a plan"
You're so stupid. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:17 PM Author: Aquamarine hall goal in life this has actually been the most exciting thread xoxo has produced in like 2 weeks.
Props to the OP, even if you are flame.
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:55 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap Highly credited. I actually wish the OP best of luck and am interested in his resoponses to the questions people have asked him. It's an interesting hypo, to say the least. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579377) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:18 PM Author: at-the-ready death wish How the hell did you rack up so much debt in UG? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579119) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:28 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part I said UG + 3 years of law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579217) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:29 PM Author: Heady Cyan Spot Legend where did u go to ugrad? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579221) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:31 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part A private UG. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579240) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:33 PM Author: laughsome home a private TTT, you said? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579259) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:33 PM Author: Deep resort doctorate you really know how to pick'em. Where are you planning to get your LLM? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579261) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:36 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part You're really a brilliant outer. Fucking moron. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579279) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:20 PM Author: odious private investor seton hall is tier 2. wow, you learn something new everyday. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579143) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:33 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part The question is, why are banks lending me money for a shitty LLM, and giving me $50k worth of credit cards? Some lenders have to learn the hard way. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579258) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:37 PM Author: supple mental disorder Wouldn't the judge ding you for Chapter 7 if they suspected you of planning it all (which you are, obviously).
I mean, most bankruptcies are for things like small businesses or medical emergencies...it's like med malpractice, judges have been conditioned to sniff for scammers. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:41 PM Author: Heady Cyan Spot Legend if by sniffing for scammers you mean apply the bankruptcy laws, then sure (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579304) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:44 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part A judge can't "ding" you in bankruptcy. What's he going to do, increase my debt? You people are really some dumb motherfuckers.
What's far more likely is he will wipe out some of my loans, prevents lenders from harming my credit, or provide me other relief to protect my law license. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:48 PM Author: supple mental disorder He can deny you chapter 7. Lots of the law really is open to either-way interpretation in which individual biases come into play. You will not be a sympathetic case.
Meh, then again, before the non-dischargable student debt change in the 90's, it was quite common for lawyers and doctors to declare bankruptcy and walk away from those debts. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:50 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Even if that ridiculous prediction came true, genius, what would happen next?
Do you see?
Fucking moron. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:56 PM Author: supple mental disorder Yes. Upon the filing of a Chapter 7 petition, a Meeting of Creditors is scheduled by the Court, which takes place one to two months after the petition is filed. The Meeting of Creditors is conducted by the trustee at the Federal Court in Trenton, Newark, or Camden. If the petitioner is represented by counsel, the attorney will sit next to the petitioner and provide assistance when needed. The trustee turns on a tape recorder, swears in the debtor, and asks if the debtor read the petition before signing it and if the signature on the petition belongs to the debtor. Additional questions such as the following may be asked:
1. How did you get into financial trouble? 2. During what period of time were your debts accrued? 3. How did you value your house (if applicable)? 4. Do you have the right to sue anybody? 5. Does anybody owe you money? 6. Do you expect to receive any money in the near future from tax returns, an inheritance, or any other source? 7. Have you transferred and real or personal property to others within the last year?
These questions are designed to help the trustee determine if the debtor possesses assets that can be distributed to creditors and if the debtor is honest and filed the petition in good faith. Creditors may appear at the meeting too and ask questions, but this rarely happens. Usually the Meeting of Creditors takes no more than five minutes to complete. In the vast majority of cases, these meetings are simple, perfunctory, and painless. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:02 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Here's how you answer those questions, under oath and on tape. --------------------------------------
1. How did you get into financial trouble? I borrowed money for a JD and LLM, but can't afford to make the payments with my legal aid job.
2. During what period of time were your debts accrued? Last five years. Four years of school and one year of job hunting.
3. How did you value your house (if applicable)? You're an idiot.
4. Do you have the right to sue anybody? No, although the bank's collectors have been harassing me.
5. Does anybody owe you money? No.
6. Do you expect to receive any money in the near future from tax returns, an inheritance, or any other source? No.
7. Have you transferred and real or personal property to others within the last year? No.
-------------------------------------- Keep in mind the trustee is a TTT grad also getting raped by the banks/TTT law schools. Who will he be sympathetic to? |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:04 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap My only question is, you can't discharge student loans, right? So what would be the point of declaring bankruptcy? You still have to pay back, they'll just have to garnish?
BTW, if you move to PA, they don't allow garnishing of wages unless its for child support or alimony. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:07 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part This plan would effectively discharge them until I make enough to pay them back. Even if I wind up making good money one day, the garnishment is capped at an absolute limit of 25%.
Thanks for the note about PA. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:10 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap NJ and MD are really bad for garnishment. They allow for 15% garnishment and can up that % to 25% if you make more than certain thresholds. PA is very favorable, pretty much does not allow garnishment, except for defined situations like child support or alimony. If you really like NJ, just live on the PA side of the Delaware River. You could even work right by Trenton and just take Amtrak to NYC. Acela is only 35-40 min from NYC-Trenton. Philly-NYC is 1 hr on Acela. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579474) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:12 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Pwnage. At worst, the Consumer Credit Protection Act limits it to a % of your disposable (note I didn't say gross) income. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579484) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:13 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap Good luck with this, bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579489) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:14 PM Author: supple mental disorder Hell, this is interesting (and the foundations of the next sub-prime economic crisis...). just let us know how it works out, guinea pig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579493) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:03 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap Subject: Doesn't sound too bad for the OP "These questions are designed to help the trustee determine if the debtor possesses assets that can be distributed to creditors and if the debtor is honest and filed the petition in good faith. Creditors may appear at the meeting too and ask questions, but this rarely happens. Usually the Meeting of Creditors takes no more than five minutes to complete. In the vast majority of cases, these meetings are simple, perfunctory, and painless. " (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579424) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:48 PM Author: Jade fat ankles cruise ship I am fairly sure I read somewhere that student loans are capped at 250k so I dont think this flaming troll can even borrow 300k if he really wanted to.
This thread is flame, right?
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 6:51 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part That can't be true as I've already been approved for the LLM loan.
I think there is a limit, though, which is why you can't stay in school forever. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:11 PM Author: Hideous Azure House "Right, so the bank is fucked in the ass because they'll never get more than the interest payments until I start making money." [taken from other part of the thread]
Just listen to yourself for a minute. If you pay 15% of your wages, THE PRINCIPAL WILL ACTUALLY INCREASE. You'll never, ever get out from that debt, and not only that, but inflation will not even help you because your debt will be increasing over time. At least if you pay the minimums, eventually inflation will help you out. Say good-bye to ever having a decent income.
Also, hate to ruin your day:
"The wage garnishment law specifies that the garnishment restrictions do not apply to CERTAIN BANKRUPTCY COURT ORDERS, or to debts due for federal or state taxes."
http://www.dol.gov/ESA/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs30.pdf
"To file for a Chapter 7 bankruptcy:
Your monthly income must be below your state's median income level, or, you must be unable to pay $100 per month towards your outstanding debt"
"Chapter 13 is a way for individuals who have a steady income to pay their debts over a court-approved period of time, generally 36 to 60 months (3 to 5 years). Any individual is eligible to file for Chapter 13 as long as their unsecured debts are less than $307,675 and secured debts are less than $922,975.
http://www.lawinfo.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/Client.lawarea/categoryid/1117
Bankruptcy doesn't allow people making okay salaries to keep all but 15%. If you make $50K, you won't qualify for Chapter 7, and if you get an LLM, you won't qualify for Chapter 13. Even without an LLM, you won't be able to make an approvable repayment plan under Ch 13 anyway, because you won't be able to repay in 3-5 years. HTFH. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:16 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap So this guy should just default and let them try to garnish, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579505) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:18 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part I really can't believe you stupid you people are.
If you're not even paying interest on debt, then you've effectively gotten out from under it. Say you lend me $350,000 and the monthly payment is $2,500 a month, but due to wage garnishment and my shitty salary, I only have to pay you $500/month. Then it doesn't matter if the principal is going up because the debt is effectively discharged until I make good money.
I don't know what point you're trying to make on the wage garnishment stuff, but those are state and federal law (e.g. CCPA.) Basically, they can take a MAXIMUM of 25% of my DISPOSABLE (note I didn't say gross) income. They take a lesser percentage if I don't make much money. What point are you trying to make in your incoherent ramblings?
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:19 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap I agree with you, but living entirely without credit might be difficult. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579521) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:23 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part I say not, because you don't own the things you "purchase" on credit. Besides, name one thing you got on credit that you couldn't do without. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579538) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:26 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap I'm not trying to be difficult.
What about apartment? A spouse?
I have a friend of my parents who has declared bankruptcy twice--he doesnt even try to pay stuff back. He just spends spends spends, declares bankruptcy and walks away. If he can do it (not sure how he does it) you could do it, I'm sure.
This is an educated guy with a family who makes good money. They rent very nice 4BR houses in nice areas, too. Weird. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:31 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part You don't need good credit to get an apartment. I know tons of people with horrible credit who got apartments.
Your friend is pwning life, rather than getting pwned by it. I'd pay back my lenders, but I'm not taking some shitty job after all this hard word for law school. Citibank's ass is going to bleed. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:24 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Read the link. That website is referring to the CCPA when it talks about certain bankruptcy orders being outside the act's jurisdiction.
Regardless, explain how your situation fits either of these:
"To file for a Chapter 7 bankruptcy:
Your monthly income must be below your state's median income level, or, you must be unable to pay $100 per month towards your outstanding debt"
[If you have a 50K job, you will not fall under any state's median income, as far as I'm aware. You also will clearly be able to pay $100/month on outstanding debt. Thus, in order for this plan to work you'll need to get a $30K job or perhaps even lower].
"Chapter 13 is a way for individuals who have a steady income to pay their debts over a court-approved period of time, generally 36 to 60 months (3 to 5 years). Any individual is eligible to file for Chapter 13 as long as their unsecured debts are less than $307,675 and secured debts are less than $922,975.
[Sorry again, your unsecured debt will be above the $307,675 cutoff. Even if you pay it down to the point hwere it isn't or you don't get an LLM, you won't be able to create a satisfactor repayment plan under chapter 13, because under your theory your debt will INCREASE after discharge. Thus, you'll be bounced to Chapter 7, which will be inapplicable.]
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:26 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part 1. The judge can override those for unconscionability, which judges have done.
2. So I don't declare bankruptcy. What happens then genius? Ahhh. You see?
It's like people on xo think there's some magical way to force me to pay the money back. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:30 PM Author: Hideous Azure House LoL for you thinking a BC judge will use his Section 105 powers to "override" anything in your favor in this circumstance, when you put forth a plan THAT RESULTS IN YOUR DEBT INCREASING AFTER DISCHARGE. Yea, that sounds like a great opportunity for him to use his equitable powers.
And despite what you may think, while BCs are equity-based, B Judges routinely get smacked down in DCs on appeal by the trustee for using their 105 powers outside of a few generally recognized scenarios. It's not as broad as you seem to think. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:33 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part He has the power to discharge some of my debt, or grant other relief to help me out. Keep in mind he's a lawyer just like me. Who is he going to side with?
But AGAIN, genius, say I can't declare bankruptcy. What happens then? Do you see? |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:33 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap "It's like people on xo think there's some magical way to force me to pay the money back."
Bingo, there isn't. But why bother declaring BKRCY at all? Either way, you're going to end up paying back not-that-much each month.
I think you could negotiate with your creditors to just pay back a pretty low amount each month and your credit wouldn't be great but it wouldn't be bad and your pmts would be low.
If you declare BKRCY, its the same but you'd have to file the papers, etc. More work for you. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:34 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part This is true. There's a chance he might give me relief, but if not then it might not be worth it.
I'll think this through in my Moscow, or Prague, or London, or Shanghai, or Cairo hotel room during my year of travel. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:34 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Let me respond to 2 as well. Outside of bankruptcy, they will take you into state court, and get judgment liens on all of your non-exempt stuff. Say goodbye to all of your personal property and possibly real property as well.
Edit: I also think the garnishment cap only applies to one garnishment at a time, not aggregate. If you have multiple garnishments, I think they can rise above that, but I readily admit I'm much fuzzier on non-bankruptcy stuff. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:36 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap They can't take the clothes off your back or your bed, TV, computer, stuff like that. Sure, if he has other possessions... but I doubt that. They can't literally empty out your apartment and take everything. I know people who have gone into bankruptcy and they still have the stuff needed to modestly furnish a 2 BR apartment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579627) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:37 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Why would they want that junk any way? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579639) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:38 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Right, bankruptcy protects a lot more stuff, but I agree, yes, he'll be able to retain bare essentials. But let's see where we are now:
Can't go into bankruptcy for reasons stated above.
Unprotected from state court judgments because no automatic stay, so pwned to bare subsistence.
You're absolutely right in what you say, but his plan is getting less and less appealing by the minute. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:42 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap They will never be able to take much from him, though. Some states don't allow garnishment. So what prevents him from renting a nice place and living by cash.
If he ever wants to buy a house with a spouse, just put the house in the spouse's name (or the spouse's siblings, etc).
What am I missing? Would his credit situation ruin his spouse's credit? He could just give cash to his wife, keep all their possessions in her name, and etc. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:36 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part "Say goodbye to all of your personal property and possibly real property"
rofl.
Do you now see why I'm using the credit cards to travel? Glad you caught up. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:40 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Sorry, I didn't realize your plan was, after you get back to the States, to live like a fucking bum without possession. If that;s the case, good luck to you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579656) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:42 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Are you always this slow?
The plan is to move back to the states, take the shitty $50k job, and only lose 15% of it in loan repayment. The rest goes to all the possessions I need, like apartment, decent used car, etc. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:44 PM Author: Hideous Azure House You're crazy if you think under state law they will only take 15% and let you keep buying possessions with the rest. You think if you pulled in $1 million per year that state law would allow them to only take 15% while you live an upper class lifestyle? There must be some maximum income that a garnishment cap like that applies to. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579679) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:50 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part I already gave you the authority. Why are you so bad at everything? You can find this shit out with google.
Also, if I'm making $1M then I won't really care will I? |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:02 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Listen you TTT piece of shit. Don't pretend like you know what you're fucking talking about. Your original plan was to file bankruptcy and only after I showed you that would be all but impossible did you suddenly start to say that that didn't matter.
Having read up on the CCPA, you're absolutely right, they'll only be able to take 25% of our disposable income (which looks to just be your net income, because it seems the only thing excluded from disposable income under the act is tax liability). However, (1) they will take this from you forever, and (2) you'll never own anything of value because outside of bankruptcy creditors will grab it, and (3) your credit will be ruined for life (although you seem not to care abotu this last one). GL with that. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:08 PM Author: Underhanded stag film why not just put this stuff in his wife's name? they could buy a house and just put it in her name, use her credit, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579778) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:11 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Hmm, not sure that'd work in most states. I think they'd get her stuff too, no? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579787) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:16 PM Author: Underhanded stag film My intuition is strongly telling me, no. As long as she makes the down payment and she makes the payments, it would be OK. He would just pay for their food, cars, and other "basics", never pay for the house. In the long run, if the value of the house goes up, when they sell it maybe he could use that to settle his debts.
My intuition STRONGLY says that if she buys the house and handles the payments, they won't look beyond that. Most states provide very strong protections for homeowners. If the house is only in her name, they cant look past that. But, the rub is, if they ever got divorced or anything like that---she gets the house. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:23 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Yea, except when you get married your spouse's credit affects yours, does it not? Thus, she'd have to pay cash for her home. Possible, but unlikely.
I just have a hard time believing you can partition a married couple's finances like that. Why wouldn't all married couples do that at the first sign of financial distress? If I were married and my house was about to be foreclosed upon because we couldn't afford to pay all our debts (but could afford the mortgage), why wouldn't I "sell" the house to my wife, have her pay the mortgage every month, and I take on the credit cards and other bills, and default? I fell like this would happen a lot more often and no one would file for bankruptcy. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:25 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part You can't do that AFTER you get married. Big difference. Also, lol at all this mixing of credit rating and marriage stuff any way. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579843) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:30 PM Author: Underhanded stag film You are right aobut the "mixing of credit rating".
But many people put 2 names on their leases/mortages. You don't have to, but many people do this. Obviously, we don't penalize people in this country for marrying someone with bad credit. Of course it makes life harder when 1 person has to sign for the big purchases, but in your case you'd have no other choice.
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:29 PM Author: Underhanded stag film Obviously you can't "sell" your house to your wife. That's not allowed because of look-back periods. That's something they look for routinely in BKRCY proceedings.
However, no, your credit only affects things that YOU personally engage in or sign for. If your spouse buys a house, then they own it. Not you. You can't make the payments, you can't have 1/2 if you divorce, they own it.
If she owns the house and its not really him making all the payments in some obvious way, then its fine. In fact, for couples this is a common issue of contention. If one spouse makes all the income, the other one needs to be listed on the mortgage or the entire house goes to the other spouse if they divorce.
If you're on the mortgage, its your obligation. As a practical matter, his wife could have a job and pay the mortgage and he could hand her cash for other stuff.
You're wrong that your spouse's credit necessarily affects yours. It does not. However, many people have shared obligations... both partners are often on the mortgage, for example. But if your wife leases a car or has a cc bill, unless you're a cosigner or you're on the lease, its not legally your problem. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:34 PM Author: Hideous Azure House "If one spouse makes all the income, the other one needs to be listed on the mortgage or the entire house goes to the other spouse if they divorce"
What about community property states? Don't those say otherwise? I readily admit I know little/nothing about family law. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:38 PM Author: Underhanded stag film This guy seems to be in NJ. NJ is not community property. I don't know the answer about community property states but I really doubt community property means that a house that his wife has a mortgage on would be his property or obligation. I also doubt that community property is so rigid that his debt becomes his wife's debt also. I just can't see that being the case. Seems very harsh and formalistic.
Interesting question, though. I honestly dont think there are easy answers to this guy's hypo. I dont think its some silver bullet for him, but I think him paying 80% of his disposable income sounds as bad or worse. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:44 PM Author: Hideous Azure House It's not 80% of his disposable income to pay the minimums over 30 years, esp. when inflation will eat at that as his salary increases.
The fact is, within 5 or 10 years, with inflation pulling his real debt down and his salary rising relative to inflation, he'll probably be below the 25% threshold that he would be at through garnishment/default. However, he'll actually maintain good credit and will be free of his loans in 30 years.
Ok, let's say you're right. He meets a nice girl, wants to get married. "Umm, honey? Could you buy every decent thing we own? You see, I decided to fuck the banks up the ass, so we can't have nice things unless you buy them. Aren't you proud of me? Instead of paying 40-45% of my disposable income, a percentage which will decrease every year due to inflation and pay raises, I will have to pay 25% for the rest of my life, or for a much longer period at least, and my credit will be fucked for life. Sound good sweetie?" |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:48 PM Author: Underhanded stag film You make good points. However, to be honest, I'd like to see someone do what this guy is proposing and report back. I guess I'm just curious. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579943) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:57 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Agreed. I would like to see it done once, although I'd much rather see people like OP's flame persona get what's coming to them for taking out huge loans to go to TTTs.
If someone who wasn't trying to fuck the system but who got into debt trouble tried this and succeeded, I'd be okay with it. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:51 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap I think he's assuming he'll only make 50k or maybe 100k at most. Even at 100k, they can only take a certain % of your post-tax income (after they allow for reasonable rent, like 800 per month, and clothes/food)
Listen, this plan is def 'out there' but I think he realizes that. He's just saying "stuff sucks pretty bad, but they can't just take $2000/month from me if my post-tax income is $2500/month" |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:53 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Ok I can buy that. See my response to your other post below. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579722) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:47 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth You went to the TTT and asking us about your TTT situation and we are the one's with the "incoherent ramblings."
You're so dumb |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:57 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Why are you so angry at this thread? Did you choose option 1? Sorry you don't know how to pwn life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579740) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:00 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth No one is angry, bitch. I just can't believe there are so many stupid people that make it to law school. The profession needs to be rescued. I go to a T20 and I won't have to worry about getting a job douche. I certainly won't make less than 95K and I won't owe nearly what you owe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579751) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:22 PM Author: 180 garrison All correct except one thing: Anyone with any amount of debt within the limits you described qualifies for chapter 13, it's just that if there's still debt owing at the end of the 3-5 year plan then you're back to square one. For people with big debt and smallish income (but too high for chapter 7) it's a way to lower your payments for 3-5 years but then they jump back up again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579532) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:28 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap How could you even get into Ch 13 unless you have a plan to pay the debt off? Say he owes 300k but makes 50k. No matter what plan he has, it cant possibly be to pay it all off in 5 yrs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579570) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:31 PM Author: Hideous Azure House He doesn't. At best they'd force him into Chapter 7, but you have to have a below-median income, so he'll get his filing dismissed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579587) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:39 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap It seems like the BKRCY laws dont really apply to these situations, then. Am I missing something?
What do you think happens in situations like this? He just agrees to a pmt plan with the loans (that probably barely covers the interest and if they want more, he makes them garnish it)?
And his credit gets ruined?
That seems like it accomplishes nothing, either for the debtor or the creditor. Debtor doesnt really get much relief on the principal and the creditor can't just write the debt off (til the guy dies) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:41 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Listen, I'm not going to pretend like I'm an expert on state law debt collection. I outlined my best guess at to what would happen above, but think about this:
If the consequences outside of bankruptcy were the same or better than they were in bankruptcy, why would people even bother filing? |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:47 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap OK, but I think the OP's thesis has some merit. He may be right that he won't able to pay back 250k in debt. Let's say his monthly payment should be 1500/month. Well, if he doesn't pay it, they have to go to court and get an order to garnish his wages. If he really can't make enough to pay that back, they'd have to accept a lesser amount or else garnish him. That would be a lower amount than 1500--probably much lower, bc its computed using disposable income.
He's not going to have it "easy" either way. But he'll also likely never actually pay back the 250k + interest. He'll essentially just have to keep giving away 15-25% of his income. In the long run, that might be better plan than turning over almost ALL of your disposable income in a futile effort to pay off your debts.
Thoughts? |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:51 PM Author: Hideous Azure House I agree with everything you say with the caveat that despite the garnishment cap they will still pursue his personal property whenever they can. If he is content to rent and live on bare essentials, that is fine...but how does that make him better off than if he devoted half his income to paying the debt legitimately? At least under the latter scenario he could eventually own things of value at some point in his life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579714) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:03 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap tell me what you think of this:
assume he makes 5000/month gross. post tax, we'll assume 3000.
of that 3000, he *could* pay 2000/month and live like a hobo. it would take him forever to pay off his loans, assuming they're at 7% interesting or whatever. he'd probably be on a 30 yr repayment plan and he'd probably pay it off in like 15-20 yrs, even if he was paying 2000/month.
now assume he says "fuck that" and seeks protection. his credit gets ruined, no doubt. but insetad of paying 2000/month, he literally pays 15-25% of disposable income. let's say they assume that 2000 out of his 3000 net income is disposable. so at 25%, he'd pay 500 or so per month.
Maybe its worth it to him. He couldnt buy "stuff", he'd have cash though. With the cash he could live decently. I dont think they could take his tv, computer, furniture (normal furniture), or stuff like that. He just couldn't start buying art or collecting valuables or buy a boat, etc.
Yes, it sucks, but it seems like he could end up paying just 500/month or so for the rest of his life. They'd never get their money back (with interest) and when he dies, then they write it off.
Seems like a huge waste, but I really don't t hink anyone can force him to aggressively pay down a mountain of debt like that. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:09 PM Author: Hideous Azure House But just think of the ramifications of that plan. Are they really any better than just paying the minimums? I'm still in school so I haven't paid my loans, but would they be $2,000 per month? I honestly don't know, but that seems high for his debt load (as it is now, not post- LLM and credit line).
GL finding a chick that is cool with living like that. Also, if he were to marry, would her property/ wages be in jeopardy too? It's like they'd have to pay a 25% tax, on top of their taxes, for life. In the end maybe that is better, month to month, than paying the debt off normally, but it's FOR LIFE. At least under a 30 year plan he gets out from under it at some point. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:13 PM Author: Underhanded stag film I'm pretty sure what they'd do it buy a place in his wife's name and never, ever put it into his name.
I agree it sucks for him, but it's better than killing himself and living like a fucking poors bum in his 20s and 30s to pay it off. I think.
I hope he updates us on what he does. He's probably just pushing this to see what others think and to see what obvious problems ppl point out. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:40 PM Author: 180 garrison http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcycourts/bankruptcybasics/chapter13.html
"a chapter 13 bankruptcy is a way for a debtor to develop a plan to pay off all OR SOME OF their debts" in a 3-5 year period. There's no requirement that you even have the goal of paying off all your debt by the end of the plan. At plan's end debts can be discharged but not the usual suspects like student loans and mortgages. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:42 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Unfortunately, his plan is to not pay off some of the debt. His plan is to pay so little that the debt actually increases. If you think such a plan would survive both creditor committee and court approval, you are even more delusional than he is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579673) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:45 PM Author: supple mental disorder Funny thing is (if any real bankruptcy lawyers are posting here), he's freeloading reams of free legal advice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579682) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:51 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Actually, what's funny is people think I need bankruptcy to make this work. Bankruptcy is just a tool to drag shit out, get judge to possibly help me out, or creditors to settle. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579716) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:13 PM Author: Hideous Azure House God stfu. You were the one who brought up bankruptcy in the first place, and even suggested the judge will use his 105 powers to lighten your debt load. Don't pretend you were going to use it as a stall tactic from the get-go. I'm sure he'd be real inclined to gve you equitable relief after looking at your credit card statements from jet settign across Europe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579794) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:45 PM Author: 180 garrison Nah man I agree with you I was just correcting a technical thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579683) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:53 PM Author: Self-centered tripping patrolman jap Even if they get him to pay an amt that makes the debt slightly go down, maybe he prefers that instead of forking over several thousand a month and living like a bum to pay it off.
I think he feels that he's going to live like a bum, killing himself and depriving himself to pay it off, so might as well live like a bum without possessions and just live by cash. Some states literally don't let them garnish your wages at all. Others cap it at 15-25% depending on income level. No state makes you turn over 75% of your post-tax income... which is what this guy would have to do to try to pay off his law school debt. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:51 PM Author: 180 garrison OP is very fascinated by the idea of "fucking the bank in the ass."
I think the bottom line is that he would be doing that (and also fucking the taxpayers in the case of defaulted govt guaranteed loans), because there are indeed limits on what they could garnish and those limits likely wouldn't even equal the interest,
BUT when you fuck the bank and the govt in the ass, you do it with a double-sided dildo and you fuck yourself in the ass at the same time. And you will be the one who feels the pain worse, for sure, because despite OP's protestations to the contrary, you need credit to live a normal life, and this is a situation where the credit report is literally never repaired due to ongoing garnishment. This double sided dildo is gonna love you long time. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:55 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth TITCR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579731) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 7:55 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Well put. In fucking the banks in the ass, he may end up in an even worse position than if he had just paid the minimums. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579734) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:00 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part For the tenth time, run the numbers. Your inability to do basic elementary school math is really pathetic.
Do a projection of take home income, with and without this plan. Do you know how to add, subtract, multiply and divide? This is really embarrassing.
And again, you don't gain any value from credit. Credit is just debt. And you're way overstating the harm done to your credit any way. There are tons of workarounds.
People, really. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:04 PM Author: Hideous Azure House It's not just credit. YOU WILL NEVER OWN ANYTHING OF VALUE. Outside of bankruptcy, you're unprotected from creditors taking your stuff. You'll be living on a subsistence level for life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579766) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:13 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part You're really a painfully stupid motherfucker. I'm truly embarrassed for you. This is about as stupid as your prior "they'll sieze your real property" comment.
You can't own anything of value until you start accumulating wealth, which you won't do until you start making real money. Until then, all anyone has, effectively, is a place to live, car etc. Including the idiots who "buy" houses on credit.
If I ever did make real money, under either scenario, I could buy whatever I wanted. Until then, my plan allows me to live a superior lifestyle, but making Citibank's ass bleed. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:16 PM Author: Hideous Azure House When I say anything of value, I'm not talking about a Van Gogh. I'm saying you'll have to live on bare essentials. Look, if you're okay with that, I'm not going to argue with you, but I think it gets you right back to where you would be otherwise.
"making Citibank's ass bleed". This made me legitimately lol, so I'll stop giving you such a hard time. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:22 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Those bare essentials will give me a larger apartment, better furniture, and better overall lifestyle than most New Yorkers. I'll have every small ticket item I want, including HDTV, fine foods etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579827) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:16 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth You the one who is going to bleed in the ass when you have to resort to robbing banks for income and end up in prison.
Citibank is a corporation. It's an entity that has shareholder's. I own shares of the pathetic bank (that will go up after the credit crisis. Buy now and see the returns in 2 years) and I don't feel like I'm going to be bleeding.
Better yet, declare bankruptcy. My bank gives loans to people like you (TTT law students) just so we can see you squirm when we own you for the rest of your life.
If you rob a bank, rob a Citibank. You'll be stealing your debt back!! ROFLs |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:24 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Why would I need to rob a bank? Our nation's fine consumer protection statutes allow me to keep 85% of my income, which is more than I need to live. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579838) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:31 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth You're such a TTT!!!!
50k is what after taxes after they take 15% of your wages? You're so stupid: "Do the math". That's even assuming your TTT ass can get a 50K job. There are tons of people in your situation networking right now and killing themselves to get the 50K job while your shooting BS on xoxo. You're so stupid.
You do the math dumbass.
And, rob a bank or killself, just do something. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:14 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth You see the schmuck never responds to this argument with anything good. He keeps thinking he can live off cash.
This is his level of thinking if you call what he does thinking. He has no ability to look in the future. That's why he went to Seton Hall and accumulated all that debt. And that's why he wants an LLM. Same thinking: School = Higher Salary = Good time. When in reality: TTT = A lot of debt = Crappy salary and wife with herpes = ghetto life |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:18 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Exactly...he thinks when I say something of value I mean truly luxury items, but they'll be able to take anything that isn't used for bare subsistence. How is that any better than paying the minimums and having little/no money to buy that stuff anyway? At least if he pays the loans he'll one day, in the distant future, be out from under it, and he can use inflation to cut it down. If he pays so little the debt increases neither of those things will occur. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579810) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:23 PM Author: Underhanded stag film As a practical matter, I don't think they'll just go in his house and look through his stuff. I agree that he won't be able to buy a ton of luxuries, but I don't think it will really be the *bare* essentials either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579834) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:08 PM Author: supple mental disorder Have you ever heard of anyone doing something like this?
PS: judges reduce billable hours all the time on lawyers. I doubt they'd be sympathetic to a jet-setting college kid. In bankruptcy, they go line-by-line over all of your purchases and expenses. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:20 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Do I know of people who pwn life? Yeah, tons of people do it.
Also, you're a moron if you think a bankruptcy judge goes through your credit card charges. Note a lot of these won't be on the credit card since I'll use the credit card to get cash. But even if your ridiculous second prediction came true, so what? What's the judge going to do, increase my debt?
You people need to think things through. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:22 PM Author: supple mental disorder it's your life, homey. as I said earlier, keep us posted when you hit bankruptcy court.
judge could garnish whatever money you could make from this 50k job of yours. yeah and yeah and yeah |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:31 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Yeah, the judge is going to override the garnishment laws to help a huge bank against a low wage attorney. rofl. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579866) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:32 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth Yes, the judge will help the bank over "[TTT] attorney. rofl" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579871) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:23 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth "You people need to think things through."
You're so stupid. ROFLs. This thread is so funny. The OP is so stupid I'm laughing so hard!!!
OP needs to edit the line into "[I] need to think things through."
OP, you're so stupid. Whoops, the OP has demonstrated he can't "think" because he went to TTT and accumulated all that debt. I forgot |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:37 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part I almost wish I don't get a good job. Remember to send this thread to the business papers if the banks have a subprime-like student loan crisis. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579890) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:39 PM Author: Underhanded stag film LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579901) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:44 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Oh yeah, one last thing. This thread was brought to you by My new flame schtick.
I still think it would work though.
|
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:48 PM Author: Underhanded stag film Pretty good work, dude. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579946) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:50 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part ty. 200+ is about par for my flames. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579955) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:50 PM Author: Hideous Azure House Masterful flame. I enjoyed this.
It would make your life better for the first 5 years or so probably. But with inflation pulling your real debt down and your wage rising, to pay the minimums on your debt would probably fall below the 25% garnishment threshold after that. Certainly after 10 years I'd think. So you'd be trading....a slightly better life now with debt for much much longer and bad credit for most of your dault life, or 10 years of hardship and then an okay life. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:55 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part I think of it as "It would have made your life easier while you're poor, and once you're rich it won't matter." It all depends on how much you value credit. Unlike most Americans, I view credit as debt, and debt is generally a bad idea IMO. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579982) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 9:00 PM Author: Hideous Azure House And there lies the fundamental flaw in your flame: The idea of a Seton Hall grad every being rich is too much of a stretch.
In all seriousness, the reason you'd be okay after 5-10 years is not because you're rich, it's just because you'd be slightly better off than you were before, to the point that your debt load relative to income would be more manageable.
And besides, even rich people need credit. Flaming aside, you have to realize its value. |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 9:09 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part You won't find any numbers to make your idea work, from a bottom line perspective.
Also, you think credit is valuable because like most Americans, you don't understand that it's just a loan. Loans are a bad idea if you can avoid them. This is an idea which goes back to biblical times.
I gotta go. I'm ending this thread. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 1:08 AM Author: Hideous Azure House actually, it's pretty simple. If your wagesare garnished the percentage of your income taken remains constant. If u pay the minimum, it is the payment which remains fixed. Thus, it's pretty easy to envision scenarios where, over time, your salary raises through both inflation and merit raises so that fixed minimum falls below the 25% fixed garnishment rate. In fact, from a "bottom line" perspective, this scenario will be the rule more than the exception. I find it funny that such a ridiculous flamer is the one saying my scenario is the implausible one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9580781) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 1:12 AM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part If you weren't so stupid, then in response to a request for numbers, you would provide actual numbers.
|
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 1:58 AM Author: Hideous Azure House 50k/yr gross, 40k net. Let's say to pay minimum it costs you 1500/month or 18k/ year. Garnishment takes 25% so 10k/yr. The 18k minimum is constant, won't change as salary rises. So in year one you are better off with garnishment. If you get a 6% (not unheard of if you are a government prosecutor or if you work at a firm) raise each year, the amount of money that is 25% of your income will increase and thus your garnishment will increase. Meanwhile, your minimum will remain constant, and will become an ever shrinking proportion of your salary. By those figures, in year 10 you will be about $90 short of breaking even with the garnishment ($17908 as 25% of income vs 18000 minimum) and you'll be better off in year 11. If your raises are smaller or the minimum is higher then it will take somewhat longer but it's doubtful even with some bad numbers that you'd still be worse off under the minimums at 15 years. Of course, actually having good credit and never having to fear sheriff sales are an added plus. The fact thatyour TTT brain couldn't conceptualize this without numbers is pretty fucking weak
Edit: Let's not forget that under the minimum payments, you will actually PAY THE LOAN OFF at some point. There's no guarantee of that under your garnishment scheme. First, at least initialy, you probably won't pay enough to cover interest, meaning your principal will grow during the first few years until your 25% of disposable income catches up with the size of the interest of the loan. Also, becase you've defaulted, the bank will tack on tons of penalties that will increase the principal further. It is fairly easy to foresee a scenario where you will have your wages garnished for far longer than the term of the loan, even though, at the back end, you'll be paying much much more than the minimum payments. Thus, under your brilliant fucking plan, you'll both pay MORE and pay LONGER than you would if you just made the minimum fucking payments from the start.
To Recap, hypothetically:
Scenario 1: You pay the minimums, which is a flat rate every year that over time becomes a smaller and smaller percentage of your salary. You maintain good credit, and pay the loan of at the end of the payment term (say 15 or 30 years). You have no penalties from the bank because you haven't defaulted. You may even be able to find a wife, because you won't have to ask her to buy all your nice things.
Scenario 2: You default, bank takes all your valuables that are not exempt from sale, and garnishes 25% of your dispoable income. The bank also tacks on default penalties. Over time, you pay more to the bank than you would have, and you continue to pay long after the payment term would have expired. You have ruined your credit for essentially your entire life, and you will have to explain to any woman with whom you have a serious relationship that you're a financial fucktard.
I really like how you fuck the bank in the ass in scenario two by paying them more money during the payment term AND continuing to pay them long after the term would have been over. I'm sure all your friends will be proud when you explain the bank's utter defeat at your able hands. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 10:01 AM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Why did you post this twice? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9581352) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:56 PM Author: supple mental disorder I'll bet at least one person from Cardozo has done this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579987) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 10:10 PM Author: insanely creepy deer antler box office how did he get past C&F ? they look at credit pretty throughly.\ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9580284) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 8:57 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth Crack is for kids. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9579992) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 9:01 PM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Wow, you're stupid even after the flame is exposed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9580011) |
|
Date: April 4th, 2008 9:17 PM Author: irradiated frisky ticket booth STFU (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=794365&forum_id=2#9580073) |
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 12:06 AM Author: beady-eyed library lordposner is an idiot. Your bank does not give credit to watch law students squirm. It gives credit to them to make money. Any if you rob a citibank the money comes back through fdic, so everyone is hurt
Also the copious !'s, classy |
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 2:39 AM Author: Hideous Azure House Subject: Bump 50k/yr gross, 40k net. Let's say to pay minimum it costs you 1500/month or 18k/ year. Garnishment takes 25% so 10k/yr. The 18k minimum is constant, won't change as salary rises. So in year one you are better off with garnishment. If you get a 6% (not unheard of if you are a government prosecutor or if you work at a firm) raise each year, the amount of money that is 25% of your income will increase and thus your garnishment will increase. Meanwhile, your minimum will remain constant, and will become an ever shrinking proportion of your salary. By those figures, in year 10 you will be about $90 short of breaking even with the garnishment ($17908 as 25% of income vs 18000 minimum) and you'll be better off in year 11. If your raises are smaller or the minimum is higher then it will take somewhat longer but it's doubtful even with some bad numbers that you'd still be worse off under the minimums at 15 years. Of course, actually having good credit and never having to fear sheriff sales are an added plus. The fact thatyour TTT brain couldn't conceptualize this without numbers is pretty fucking weak
Edit: Let's not forget that under the minimum payments, you will actually PAY THE LOAN OFF at some point. There's no guarantee of that under your garnishment scheme. First, at least initialy, you probably won't pay enough to cover interest, meaning your principal will grow during the first few years until your 25% of disposable income catches up with the size of the interest of the loan. Also, becase you've defaulted, the bank will tack on tons of penalties that will increase the principal further. It is fairly easy to foresee a scenario where you will have your wages garnished for far longer than the term of the loan, even though, at the back end, you'll be paying much much more than the minimum payments. Thus, under your brilliant fucking plan, you'll both pay MORE and pay LONGER than you would if you just made the minimum fucking payments from the start.
To Recap, hypothetically:
Scenario 1: You pay the minimums, which is a flat rate every year that over time becomes a smaller and smaller percentage of your salary. You maintain good credit, and pay the loan of at the end of the payment term (say 15 or 30 years). You have no penalties from the bank because you haven't defaulted. You may even be able to find a wife, because you won't have to ask her to buy all your nice things.
Scenario 2: You default, bank takes all your valuables that are not exempt from sale, and garnishes 25% of your dispoable income. The bank also tacks on default penalties. Over time, you pay more to the bank than you would have, and you continue to pay long after the payment term would have expired. You have ruined your credit for essentially your entire life, and you will have to explain to any woman with whom you have a serious relationship that you're a financial fucktard.
I really like how you fuck the bank in the ass in scenario two by paying them more money during the payment term AND continuing to pay them long after the term would have been over. I'm sure all your friends will be proud when you explain the bank's utter defeat at your able hands. Your defense of this flame is at an end.
|
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 10:09 AM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Subject: You need remedial help You need remedial help with basic legal research and arithmetic.
Garnishment isn't going to take 25%. 25% is the maximum they can garnish off of your disposable income. Maximum. Disposable. Thus there's no way they garnish 25% to start. That's like saying a poor person will pay 35% of their gross income in federal taxes. It's just a ridiculously erroneous application of law to facts.
Also, numbers look like this: Column 1 - 40 years' take home salary with the first plan. Column 2 - 40 years' take home salary with the second plan. I know you can't develop them, because you can't do arithmetic, or calculate a loan payment, but that's what it would look like if you could. Prose =/= numbers.
If you get a friend to help you apply the law and work through the numbers - you'll see that while the person is poor, he's far better off with garnishment. Then once he's rich, he'll be worse off with garnishment, but it won't matter - because he's rich. In economics, this is called utility theory.
Now look. I'm sorry you're so incredibly stupid. I really am. You're like that dumb kid who gets an answer wrong. Goes to the professor. Gets into an argument. Goes home. Thinks about it. Goes back and argues some more. Eventually, 10 years later you have your aha moment and get it, but by then it only makes for enthusiastic coffee talk with your coworkers at the truck stop. I don't want to be the tennis racket in your Youzhny moment, so take further questions to other people. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 10:55 AM Author: Hideous Azure House 1. Disposable income in the garnishment context = your post-tax income. It is not disposable income in the sense that it is over and above the income you need for subsistence; pretty much the only amounts outside of disposable income for the purpose of CCPA and state garnishment laws is tax payment.
2. If you are making 50k, which is significantly higher than any state's median income, are you really stupid enough to suggest a court would take pity on you and make you pay LESS than the maximum garnishment cap? You make me think you actually do go to Seton Hall more every minute. 50k, while poor by most lawyers' standards, is actually doing well in the eyes of a state court judge used to dealing with REAL poor people everyday who can't pay their debts. You will absolutely pay that 25% maximum, from day one.
3. I'm not going to sit down and create a forty year chart. I did the math. You can't refute that under the scenario I laid out, you lose. Your only recourse is to say that yes, you lose eventually, but while you're "poor" and young you win, which is better. Here are the problems with that theory:
4. First off, you will not be "rich" when your 25% garnishment eclipses the minimum payment. You'll be taking home about 70-75K, IN 2018 DOLLARS. Put that in real dollars, adjusted for inflation, and you'll have the purchasing power of someone making less than $55,000 in 2008 dollars (assume 2-3% inflation over ten years...I've done the math, before you try to say otherwise asshole). Thus, because the garnishment is a set percentage of your income, inflation will actually work against you relative to making fixed minimum payments. So, while your nominal wage will increase, your purchasing power will only rise slightly, and all of that rise AND MORE will be eaten up by the fact that you are paying well above the minimum and the gulf between the garnishment and minimum will only increase the further along you go. So there you go. Not only will you not be "rich", your financial situation will actually get WORSE as you get older. This isn't something that will happen 30 years down the road...it will happen in ten years or so. The idea that you would only see negative consequences from this when you become rich is a logical fallacy.
5. All of the above really only gets into the disparities between the plans during the term of payment, and shows fairly clearly that you come out a net loser over the normal life of the loan. However, as I mentioned above, the garnishment plan will make you pay WELL BEYOND THE TERM OF THE LOAN. So, you'll pay more during the term, AND continue to pay, IN INCREASING AMOUNTS after the loan would otherwise be paid off. AND you'll be paying back the gains you make initially, which will increase your principal (and therefore interest on that principal), AND oyu'll be paying default penalties that in many instances increase the principal by exorbitant amounts (if you remember a thread that was here about a year ago there was a grad student who killed himself after he defaulted on his student loans; I remember that his penalties on his loans were in the high five figures. This amount wll be tacked on fairly early in this process and build interest throughout).
6. Finally, part of the fun of your plan, in theory, was that it would fuck the bank over. However, it's almost a certainty that, short of you dying prematurely (which would fuck them whether you default or not), you will pay them much much more money under your theory.
BTW: You're the one trying to cling to a shitty theory you thought up that isn't particularly difficult to formulate, but *mysteriously*, no one has ever executed successfully. You think if this theory was actually a good decision people wouldn't have done it and this community of people with gigantic loans wouldn't have heard of it? Now who's the one clinging to their wrong answers like a pathetic faggot?
Edit: Don't pretend like you know anything about economic theory, either. It's clear all of this shit never even occurred to you when you crafted this plan, and any freshman economics student understands how inflation works and would have been able to conceptualize what I was saying without needing numbers. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 11:09 AM Author: hyperventilating party of the first part Exactly as my last post predicted.
Right now I'm mainly wondering what race you are. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 11:17 AM Author: Hideous Azure House Your silence on any of those deep flaws in your plan is deafening.
It's ironic when people with crackpot theories who defend them in the face of irrefutable evidence of their stupidity claim the other side is attempting to cling to strained logic. You pwn yourself with every subsequent post. |
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 12:01 PM Author: Cocky chocolate school Dood cut your losses. You got pwned. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility#Utility_of_money
|
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 1:26 PM Author: Hideous Azure House You've got to be kidding me. If his purchasing power decreases over time, the utility of the increasing amount of income that is taken out will increase. He will have to pay more when he is poorer. While a present value of money argument may be better, that will be pretty easily overcome by exorbitant default fees and increasing principal. While he will temporarily be better off at the beginning (see above I never said otherwise) his financial situation will fall off a cliff and he'll be forced to pay more as his purchasing power remains constant and eventually increases
|
|
Date: April 5th, 2008 1:33 PM Author: contagious fuchsia heaven nibblets "He will have to pay more when he is poorer."
DOESNTUNDERSTANDGARNISHMENTLIMITSPWNED! |