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 62 posters qualify.
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Graduated from my TTT - fuming, absolutely fuming with anger
Date: May 17th, 2008 1:51 PM Author: Tan Headpube You know that psychological thing, where someone going through shit doesn't get angry about it until it's over?
Well I understand it.
I just graduated from a $40,000 T2 law school. I am so fucked it's unbelievable. Crappy job, wasted three years and in a pile of debt.
I'm literally fuming with anger. It's to the point where I can barely function. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 1:54 PM Author: Floppy lavender meetinghouse which T2? what's your job? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796309) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 1:58 PM Author: Tan Headpube BLS/Loyola/Cardozo ish. $18/hour small firm until I pass the bar. I'm on a break for Barbri. How is the break funded? More student loans. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796322) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:01 PM Author: Contagious corner What's your total student loan level?
You actually have a job, so you are actually pretty well off compared to others in your shoes
How did you do grades wise |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:02 PM Author: Tan Headpube Top 20%. My job only pays $18/hour dood. Debt is over $150,000. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796333) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:03 PM Author: Contagious corner That sucks that top 20 percent only gets you that kind of a job. Hopefully your story again reinforces how risky it is going to those type of schools.
But again, at least you have a job. A lot of TTTers don't even have jobs |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:05 PM Author: Tan Headpube I really don't think it's hard to get an $18/hour job. I'm not even 100% certain to get a full time position when I pass teh bar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796339) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:07 PM Author: Contagious corner Dude, it's a legal job. You should read some of the stories on boards like Jdunderground. Those fuckers can't even get jobs AFTER passing the Bar.
You at least are top 20 percent at a T2. A lot of those fucks are TTTTers with shit grades. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:12 PM Author: Passionate stubborn codepig background story Paralegals make about $25 dood. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796363) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:18 PM Author: Tan Headpube I think that's only at top firms? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796389) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:24 PM Author: Passionate stubborn codepig background story Yes it is. You should have just done that instead of law school. You'd be at $25/hr by now instead of 18. And you'd have zero debt. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796406) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:57 PM Author: Khaki big french chef but after he passes the bar he has a real chance of success. things may be hard hard at first but then the SKY is the limit.
The worst that could happen would be that you are an assistant city attorney, working 40 hours a week, with lots of vacation time and great benefits, and virtual job tenure.
Paralegal has a low ceiling. His school is not TTT. It is LOW 70s on USNWR. Not all schools follow Loyola's pattern. There are some decent regional schools that are well respected in their area. I do not know if Pitt is one or not. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:06 PM Author: motley vermilion crackhouse alpha I dont know dude. assistant city attorney? the only time there's an opening is if someone retires (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796693) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:17 PM Author: Tan Headpube People are pretty misled on the availability of government job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796732) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:20 PM Author: motley vermilion crackhouse alpha It appears to me after spending a summer in government and starting this one there as well that there are basically no jobs. They never ever hire. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796740) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:21 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency Moron, that was clearly a flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796745) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:23 PM Author: motley vermilion crackhouse alpha The part about the paralegal is in earnest. the assistant city attorney could also be (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796750) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:22 PM Author: Passionate stubborn codepig background story In NYC, the city attorney's office is populated by BIGLAW refugees. Sorry. Next! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796748) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:24 PM Author: motley vermilion crackhouse alpha how is that contradictory? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796758) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:23 PM Author: Tan Headpube They have a lot of work, and need lawyers, but there are budget constraints. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796749) |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 5:18 PM Author: Sickened red twinkling uncleanness office http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=796367&mc=5&forum_id=2 http://digg.com/people/Blogger_Lena_Chen_s_New_Squeeze_Patrick_Hamm http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=628033&mc=11&forum_id=2 http://www.gossipreport.com/s/LenaChen01/1 http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080410201436AAv05M7 http://www.gossipreport.com/s/LenaChen01/3 http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=741677&mc=21&forum_id=2 http://www.newsweek.com/id/112705/output/comments http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2007/01/harvard-sex-blogger-hits-hustler.php http://www.newsweek.com/id/112705 http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?p=215244 http://www.thepeeq.com/home/article/66/Lena-Chen-reporting-from-Harvard-University http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=795732&mc=16&forum_id=2 http://www.reddit.com/info/6ln0q http://dontdateherdude.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=2004830%3ATopic%3A1687 http://boinkology.com/2008/05/27/whats-the-big-deal-about-a-little-jizz-on-the-lips/ http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?topic=25916.0 http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?topic=25916.msg315060#msg315060 http://dontdatehimgirl.com/posts/138652/
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:10 PM Author: obsidian concupiscible gunner den Jesus christ. Not to be mean, but why did you do that to yourself? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796353) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:12 PM Author: exciting hot temple chad http://ttt-paradox.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815186&mc=1&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796360) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:19 PM Author: Tan Headpube No other choice. Eventually, you decide to stop killing trees and accept reality. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796391) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:19 PM Author: obsidian concupiscible gunner den What?
I meant, why did you go to law school in the first place? |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:21 PM Author: Tan Headpube To get a good job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796398) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:21 PM Author: obsidian concupiscible gunner den But if the best you can do is $18/hour why didn't you just get a crappy low-level office job and forego the 150k in debt? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796400) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:22 PM Author: Tan Headpube Dood I didn't think it would turn out this way. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796403) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:27 PM Author: obsidian concupiscible gunner den Didn't you do research before you enrolled? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796411) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:37 PM Author: Tan Headpube Not critically enough. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796431) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:39 PM Author: black chapel bbw So what did you base your decision on? The school's website + Princeton Review + USNWR? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796437) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:40 PM Author: Tan Headpube Yeah basically. My School is in the top 1/3 of schools nationwide according to USN, and the average starting salary was decent. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796439) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:44 PM Author: black chapel bbw Ouch. Ouch ouch ouch (I came close to making the same choice last year). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796451) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:49 PM Author: maize persian voyeur Blue Smoke, SHUT THE FUCK UP. You make absolutely no sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797732) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:48 PM Author: maize persian voyeur STFU (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797729) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:35 PM Author: Flirting fanboi private investor which 1 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797168) |
Date: May 17th, 2008 2:06 PM Author: rose bipolar sanctuary DId you go to your graduation? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796342) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:17 PM Author: Tan Headpube Not sure yet. I'm scheduled to, but I probably won't go as I couldn't bare to look at the Dean. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796383) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:18 PM Author: Contagious corner When's your graduation? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796387) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:21 PM Author: Tan Headpube Soon. If I say it'll out my school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796399) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:09 PM Author: exciting hot temple chad Annual base salaries for officers hired during
January 2006 or after:
Police Academy (first six months): $25,100 (Annualized) Upon completion of six months: $32,700 Upon completion of 1 ½ years: $34,000 Upon completion of 2 ½ years: $38,000 Upon completion of 3 ½ years: $41,500 Upon completion of 4 ½ years: $44,100 Upon completion of 5 ½ years: $59,588
* These salaries do not include overtime earnings, night-shift differential, holiday pay and uniform allowance.
When including base salary, average overtime and night shift differential, holiday pay, and uniform allowance, a Police Officer earns over $35,000, on average, in the first year; $45,000, on average, in the second year; $77,000, on average, after 6 years
CAREER OPPORTUNITIES
The NYPD administers promotional exams for each rank above police officer every two-three years. IT’S A GREAT PLACE TO ADVANCE….
* 1 in 6 uniformed members of the NYPD are Detectives. A Detective’s (3rd Grade) average earning is $100,000* (Promotion to Detective is not based on a promotional exam, it’s based on merit) * 1 in 7 uniformed members of the NYPD are Sergeants. A Sergeant’s average earning is $100,000* * 1 in 20 uniformed members of the NYPD are Lieutenants. A Lieutenant’s average earning is $122,000*
*These salaries include base salary, average overtime and night shift differential, holiday pay, and uniform allowance. The above ranks do enjoy the same additional benefits described above.
RETIREMENT BENEFITS
After 20 years of service, a retired Police Officer will receive:
* Estimated earnings of $50,783 per year, comprised of 50 % of salary, longevity, night shift differential, overtime and an annual $12,000 payment from a Variable Supplement Fund.
- A retired Police Officer could receive approximately $1.9 million when retired assuming a life expectancy of 80 years. This figure is based on the age of appointment of 22 and the age of retirement of 42.
- The dollar amount of $1.9 million is estimated on 2005 salaries and is not adjusted for inflation or for future raises.
- This dollar amount will be higher for uniformed members that retire above the rank of Police Officer.
* Full health benefits
* Annuity Fund and Deferred Compensation Plan, 401K and I.R.A.
— The amount of total compensation from these funds depends on the market value of the portfolio that the officer has chosen while active and varies depending on the amount voluntarily contributed by the individual officer.
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:11 PM Author: olive box office multi-billionaire Would it help or hurt to tell them you went to law school, though? I thought cops and lawyers didn't really get along. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796355) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:12 PM Author: exciting hot temple chad the point is dumbs shouldn't go to college
being a police officer/electrician/whateverthefuck is a much better idea |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:15 PM Author: dead doctorate if I coudl do it over again, I woudl become an electrician - i shit you not (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796376) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:16 PM Author: exciting hot temple chad dudes are ballin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796378) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:17 PM Author: Talented gold space unfortunately there are solidly middle class dumbs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796385) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:14 PM Author: cocaine farts (son you're too eager) I'm rollin through your hood and now my heart is filled with anger You at your sister's house now your sister's life's in danger I see your picture in my head and my hand shake You can run, you can hide, but there's no escape
grrrrrrrrrrr anger erupting must eat some village peasants
*pounces* |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:17 PM Author: nudist piazza T2s should face the same wrath as give tier three and four.
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:20 PM Author: Tan Headpube This guy did a study which essentially proves they're the same:
http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_legal_studi/2008/04/large-law-firm.html |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:17 PM Author: Soul-stirring lilac indirect expression senseofentitlementpwnd (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796384) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:22 PM Author: Tan Headpube I want my money back. I'm literally indigent and I can not afford to pay that amount of money and get nothing in return. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796402) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:40 PM Author: Mind-boggling water buffalo lulz, you demand a refund AFTER receiving 3 years of their services.
prove you're a good lawyer by suing your school for fraud and winning. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:30 PM Author: Contagious corner Look into Gov't jobs at all? Either local or federal?
See: Harsh Times starring Christian Bale |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:32 PM Author: Tan Headpube Dood I have tons of friends who got pwned by government. There are massive budget cuts and government jobs straight out of law school are nearly impossible. I know someone with the most impressive credentials you could imagine (for the position she seeks) and she can't get a full time offer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796423) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:43 PM Author: excitant cruise ship she must be extremely ugly, and probably fat. show us 1 hot chick with impressive LS grades. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796631) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:46 PM Author: Tan Headpube Not at all. A solid NY 7-8 LA 6. There is a lot of misinformation re: government. Budget cuts and demand for government jobs makes it a very difficult market. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796642) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:17 PM Author: laughsome factory reset button yeah government jobs have a lot of job security but entry level is tough. although i hear that because of budget constraints, some places are more willing to hire people with less experience since they can pay them less. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796729) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:19 PM Author: excitant cruise ship a so cal county recently hired 3 dep. da's. all were from shit LS's, and most likely had shit grades. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796738) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:17 PM Author: excitant cruise ship "A solid NY 7-8 LA 6"
as i said, ugly.
gov't is almost always hiring lawyers. you are one of these: an idiot, a flamer, a combo of the two |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:18 PM Author: Tan Headpube For law school? You're just trying to be outrageous. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796735) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:20 PM Author: exhilarant bistre principal's office place of business lol at you thinking the fugly girls you hang out with are 8's. You pathetic loser, enjoy cutting my lawn in a few years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796741) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:25 PM Author: Tan Headpube . . . and the pathetic TTTs come in to play the role successful pwning guy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796759) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:45 PM Author: exhilarant bistre principal's office place of business let's see: 1. You hang out with ugly girls, 2. You have no future, 3. You have 150k of debt.
I'd say you did a pretty good job of pwning yourself. I'm just here to drive that point home you epic failure. You probably have a TTT social life to match your TTT career. PWNED |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:20 PM Author: excitant cruise ship that means she's ugly. i've been on a ttt LS campus and in a ttt LS classroom. out of 100 girls, maybe 1 is not a complete train wreck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796742) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:33 PM Author: Swollen hairraiser windowlicker This is flame. Top 20% at the 3 schools you mentioned would at the very least get you a midlaw job. It most likely would also give you a shot at Big Law.
So, either you are a liar or a fucking asshole and your interviewers picked up on this. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:35 PM Author: Tan Headpube Bullshit. Look here: http://www.law.com/img/nlj/charts/composite.pdf The top 20% thing is a lie. Even top 10% aren't guaranteed a job, just interviews. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:38 PM Author: Swashbuckling Hateful Useless Brakes Locale that's why i transferred. i caught on to the scam early on and got the hell out of such schools for CCN. biglaw's easy after that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796434) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:41 PM Author: motley vermilion crackhouse alpha help me
http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815198&forum_id=2#9796422 |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:53 PM Author: Swashbuckling Hateful Useless Brakes Locale Dude, I have no idea. having transferred, i had a stellar record and got callbacks everywhere, save 1 firm. that's why so many students hate transfers--we have a strong, proven record and a new, name-brand school. low risk.
you'll be fine, though. i had plenty of friends with similar numbers that did just fine. cast the net wide, and knock them dead during interviews. maybe consider other markets outside of new york at larger firms where it would be easy to get back into NYC if you choose. i had one friend who went to Latham in Newark for a summer, then took their offer in NYC. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:57 PM Author: motley vermilion crackhouse alpha I dont care about being in new york.
I'm going to be a 3L, no SA this summer. I'm not even going to bid firms like latham. I'd like people to help me pick out the least selective firms on that list
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:09 PM Author: Swashbuckling Hateful Useless Brakes Locale Eliminate anything in DC. market's tiny so it's very competitive. list below is probably a good start. i know zero about most of these firms. i just eliminated many of the top tier practices i'm familiar with, because that's what i researched and thankfully landed.
send a bunch of resumes out, too. i know someone who landed at gibson dc that way. another at paul weiss NYC.
Beveridge & Diamond, P.C. (San Francisco, CA)
Beveridge & Diamond, P.C. (Washington, DC)
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (Albany, NY)
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (Armonk, NY)
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (Corporate Department, NYC)
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (Ft. Lauderdale, FL)
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (Hanover, NH)
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (Hollywood, FL)
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (Miami, FL)
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (New York, NY)
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (Oakland, CA)
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (Orlando, FL)
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP (Washington, DC)
Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP (New York, NY)
Cooley Godward LLP (New York, NY)
Cooley Godward LLP (Palo Alto, CA)
Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle LLP (New York, NY)
Darby & Darby (New York, NY)
Dechert LLP (Austin, TX)
Dechert LLP (Boston, MA)
Dechert LLP (London, UNITED KINGDOM)
Dechert LLP (New York, NY)
Dechert LLP (Philadelphia, PA)
Dechert LLP (Silicon Valley, CA)
Dechert LLP (Washington, DC)
Deloitte (New York)
DLA Piper Singapore Pte Ltd
Ernst & Young (New York, NY)
Faegre & Benson LLP (Boulder, CO)
Faegre & Benson LLP (Denver, CO)
Faegre & Benson LLP (Des Moines, IA)
Faegre & Benson LLP (Minneapolis, MN)
Federal Reserve Board (Washington, DC)
Fenwick & West LLP (Mountain View, CA)
Fitzpatrick, Cella, Harper & Scinto (New York, NY)
Foley & Lardner LLP (New York, NY)
Foley Hoag LLP (Boston, MA)
Frommer, Lawrence & Haug, L.L.P. (New York, NY)
Gide Loyrette Nouel (New York, NY)
Goodwin Procter LLP (Washington, DC)
Goodwin Procter LLP - IP Department (New York, NY)
Goulston & Storrs, P.C. (Boston, MA)
Greenbaum, Rowe, Smith & Davis LLP (Iselin, NJ)
Gunderson Dettmer Stough Villeneuve Franklin & Hachigian, LLP (Menlo Park, CA)
Hodgson Russ LLP (Buffalo, NY)
Howard Rice Nemerovski Canady Falk & Rabkin, PC (San Francisco, CA)
Ivins, Phillips & Barker (Washington, DC)
Kasowitz, Benson, Torres & Friedman LLP (New York, NY)
Knobbe, Martens, Olson & Bear, LLP (Irvine, CA)
Kostelanetz & Fink LLP (New York, New York)
Littler Mendelson, P.C. (San Francisco, CA)
Loeb & Loeb LLP (New York, NY)
Lowenstein Sandler PC (Roseland, NJ)
McKee Nelson LLP (New York, NY)
McKinsey & Company, Inc. (New York, NY)
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP (New York, NY)
Morvillo, Abramowitz, Grand, Iason, Anello & Bohrer, PC (New York, NY)
Norton Rose (London UNITED KINGDOM)
Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP (New York, NY)
Perkins Coie LLP (Menlo Park, CA)
Perkins Coie LLP (Phoenix, AZ)
Roberts & Holland LLP (New York, NY)
Satterlee Stephens Burke & Burke LLP (New York, NY)
Shartsis Friese LLP (San Francisco, CA)
Shipman & Goodwin LLP (Hartford, CT)
Sills Cummis Epstein & Gross P.C. (Newark, NJ)
Steptoe & Johnson LLP (Washington, DC)
Sutherland Asbill & Brennan LLP (New York, NY)
Thompson Hine LLP (Cleveland, OH)
U.S. Department of State, Office of the Legal Adviser (Washington, DC)
U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (Washington, DC)
Wiggin and Dana LLP (New Haven, CT)
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati (New York, NY)
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati (Palo Alto, CA)
Woodcock Washburn LLP (Philadelphia, PA)
Young Conaway Stargatt & Taylor, LLP (Wilmington, DE) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:15 PM Author: motley vermilion crackhouse alpha boies schiller requires top 25% or something at nyu
thanks though |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:17 PM Author: black chapel bbw er, what's the criteria for the list? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796547) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:22 PM Author: motley vermilion crackhouse alpha it's a list of the firms coming to nyu 3l oci minus the too selective ones (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796562) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:30 PM Author: Swashbuckling Hateful Useless Brakes Locale like i said, i eliminated top-tier shops i'm familiar with, because that's what i'd researched and landed, and they'd be stretches for nyu 2.9. i edited the list quickly, so i'm sure i missed things along the way (like boies). i only interviewed in NYC & DC and know little about many of the firms i left on.
i still think it's a good idea to paper the market with resumes. lots of branch outfits of top firms in "less desirable" areas that would be happy to bring in an NYU grad. like my latham friend in newark. my understanding, based on a handful of anecdotes, is transferring from one shop to another under the same banner's not too tough. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:37 PM Author: motley vermilion crackhouse alpha ocs pretty much told me not to bother with eiw, and to focus on using martindale, so I'm thinking I'm pretty fucked. If I even do eiw I want to bid like the 10 least selective firms highest regardless of location. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796611) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:41 PM Author: Tan Headpube Mine told me the same thing. "If you're not top 10%, maybe top 15%, then you won't meet their grade cutoffs." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796624) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:42 PM Author: motley vermilion crackhouse alpha we dont have grade cutoffs for screening interviews, but I dont want to waste bid slots (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796628) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:29 PM Author: Swollen hairraiser windowlicker According to that POS chart, only top 1/3 at Yale get Big Law.
Again, top 20% at the 3 schools you mentioned all have a very good shot at big law and have midlaw in NYC (Cardozo & Brooklyn) 100-125K.
So you making $18 an hour being top 20% is bullshit.
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:34 PM Author: Tan Headpube Let me explain that for you. The other 2/3 of Yale got clerkships.
You can argue all you want but I'm telling you it's not true. I know the people at my school. Top 20% is a lie. You need top 10% just for interviews. I don't know what else to tell you.
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:26 PM Author: snowy vivacious location sorry about your tiny pink inability to read a graph, bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797146) |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 5:59 PM Author: Histrionic Parlour Milk which school do you work for? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9849324) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:40 PM Author: Contagious corner How did you do after 1L? Did you think of transferring at all? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796441) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:42 PM Author: Tan Headpube I didn't know it would be this bad after 1L.
Also, I heard you need top 10%ish to transfer so I didn't even try. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:45 PM Author: Contagious corner Top 10 for t14 no?
You might have been able to swing a T15-20 though? |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:49 PM Author: Tan Headpube Well, our school has an OCI program with like 110 employers. Maybe 60 of them biglaw. I really didn't think there would be much difference between my school and say, GW. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796463) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:15 PM Author: lime bonkers personal credit line prole GW has like 450 employers with over 200 biglaw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796727) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:19 PM Author: Tan Headpube Wow. I had no clue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796739) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:45 PM Author: Passionate stubborn codepig background story Top 20% at these schools cannot transfer. Maybe top 20% at T1 could. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796453) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:46 PM Author: Contagious corner He couldn't even transfer to some school like UCLA or GW with top 20 percent? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796455) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:24 PM Author: excitant cruise ship maybe if he were blk (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796757) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:47 PM Author: alcoholic market lol @ your life (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796458) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:55 PM Author: Swashbuckling Hateful Useless Brakes Locale lol @ your life (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796470) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:56 PM Author: Tan Headpube Go take a dick in the ass you fag. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796474) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:00 PM Author: alcoholic market Sorry about your tiny pink career prospects, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797492) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 2:57 PM Author: Onyx Newt Menage lol @ your life (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796476) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:45 PM Author: impressive crystalline wagecucks orchestra pit wow, i made more than 18 an hr last summer as a ug junior. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796638) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:47 PM Author: Tan Headpube At first I thought you wrote janitor, and I thought it was odd since you're female. lol. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796645) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:48 PM Author: impressive crystalline wagecucks orchestra pit there are female janitors. I feel like w/janitors, in my experience, it's totally half and half. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796649) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:51 PM Author: Tan Headpube Are you counting hotel cleaning ppl as janitors? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796653) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:51 PM Author: Cerebral Gaping I don't know dude, sounds like you'll be alright. You went to a bad school, but there are far worse. You had good grades, you found a legal job. Sure it pays shit, but its your starting salary. As you get more experience your earning potential will increase respectively and you'll be fine. Relax. Things could have been a lot worse.
Why not work in government? Sounds like you have the credentials to get such a gig and with the new IBR program your debt will be written off in 10 years. Until then you only pay 15% of your discretionary income. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:52 PM Author: Tan Headpube Government jobs are pretty hard to get, at least where I live. Budget cuts and high demand. They want 2 yrs experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796657) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:54 PM Author: Cerebral Gaping public defender? DA? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796660) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:12 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt those jobs are super hard to get in big cities. If you have no problem with moving to Wyoming you can easily be a DA. In NYC it's like winning the lottery. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796717) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:22 PM Author: excitant cruise ship easy to get a da/pd job in LA. that county is constantly hiring for those jobs, as the attrition is obscene. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796747) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:26 PM Author: Tan Headpube Absolutely preposterous. I have friends going for the LA sun, and Villagroisa's (spelling?) budget cuts have decimated hiring. They want 1-2 yrs of experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796764) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:30 PM Author: excitant cruise ship he's a mayor with no control over county spending (mayor = city fagot)
all you need is a bar card and you usually get hired the same day of your interview (assuming you can interview slightly above the skill level of a monkey) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:36 PM Author: Tan Headpube Allllrighty. I'll tell that to my friends externing for two years straight, who still haven't been given offers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796792) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:41 PM Author: excitant cruise ship lol. i didn't say the county would not exploit the stupid. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796803) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:17 PM Author: Tan Headpube Yup. I specifically know someone trying to get one of those. She has a great resume and training, but no luck.
Not to say something racist, but my URM friends have a pretty good in to those positions. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:53 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt leave the law and join me in the wonderful world of finance. Honest to god you will do better with a TTT JD working in finance than you ever will in law. I spent 10 months after graduation looking for legal work and it was HELL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796658) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 3:58 PM Author: nudist piazza how do you get the finance job with a TTT JD? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796675) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:02 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt my undergrads career service office hooked me up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796685) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:28 PM Author: Tan Headpube lol. So ur LS was completely useless. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796771) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:04 PM Author: opaque unhinged elastic band What do you do? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796686) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:06 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt I do compliance related work at a hedge fund, but I also do some back office work as well. I'm sort of a jack of all trades here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796695) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:08 PM Author: opaque unhinged elastic band Tight, congrats dude. Did you have prior work experience? Did you have an UG finance degree? How were your grades? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796702) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:11 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt my law school grades were average and maybe even below the median, my undergrad grades were stellar (3.8ish) and I did major in finance. Law is a waste of time for most tier 2 grads. There isnt enough good work out there for this number of lawyers. The only law firms I was even landing interviews at were dumps and solo shops that paid complete shit and were demanding ridiculous billable hours. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796711) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:13 PM Author: opaque unhinged elastic band Do you think the law degree helped? Also, did it help enough to make it worth the three years plus costs? Tyia
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:15 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt I dont know if it really helped or not but I know it definitely wasnt worth the cost and the 3 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796726) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:27 PM Author: excitant cruise ship she would've been better off getting an internet law degree for around $6k total. unless tuition is either super cheap or free, T2 schools are a huge scam. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796768) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:24 PM Author: Passionate stubborn codepig background story what do you do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796754) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:27 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt I just answered this above. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796767) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:01 PM Author: exhilarant bistre principal's office place of business PWNED moron (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796681) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:02 PM Author: Navy bat-shit-crazy hospital holy fuck
after reading this thread, I think i'd elect to become a garbageman over going to Cardozo |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:07 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt that would be the right move. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796699) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:24 PM Author: chartreuse rambunctious station reading party This really cheered me up. I'm a double ivy with 50k in debt. Out of college I got a 70k job. You really fucked yourself. Why didn't anyone care enough to tell you not to do this? You should have gone to a TTT for free! You'd be getting the same job and you wouldn't have had the pressure to get a job.
But don't worry - it'll work out. Just get some practical trial experience and then lateral from the DA's office to a real firm. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:30 PM Author: Tan Headpube I thought you were doing PolSci @ KSG? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796781) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:34 PM Author: excitant cruise ship "I'm a double ivy with 50k in debt."
lol. like you have room to talk. anybody with that much debt is a complete fool. you will fail at life and ultimately hang yourself. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:47 PM Author: Swollen hairraiser windowlicker No such thing as DOUBLE IVY, you pretentious douche. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796815) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 9:51 PM Author: Saffron striped hyena Most ppl who lateral from the DA's office to a decent firm had good law school credentials to begin with, but just wanted to try out the law and order experience. This guy might be able work for a public defender and then do insurance defense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797962) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:29 PM Author: titillating territorial house *cowers in fear of retard strength* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796779) |
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Date: May 18th, 2008 12:40 PM Author: Chestnut Learning Disabled Giraffe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9799270) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:37 PM Author: Glittery abnormal hairy legs This thread contains awful misinformation. Top 20% at all three schools will get you interviews at Midlaw, at a minimum. At least at Cardozo, top 20% will get you multiple interviews at Biglaw. If OP isn't flame, readers should know that op's experience is not typical for those schools. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796794) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:40 PM Author: Passionate stubborn codepig background story actually its quite typical. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796801) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:42 PM Author: Glittery abnormal hairy legs It's quite typical to have no other options than to be a contract attorney from Cardozo or BLS with top 20% grades? That's absolutely false. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796805) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:45 PM Author: Tan Headpube I'm sorry but the data, my experiences and my friends' experiences just don't match your claims. Again, http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/regional_NY.pdf And that's for the entire AM250.
You should know that when a school claims top 20% get big/mid law, that it's really less than that. You should be expecting them to fib a little, |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:41 PM Author: Tan Headpube The actual data shows that only 10% of 'Dozo got AM250. http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/regional_NY.pdf
The top 20% thing is just a lie. Schools stretch their actual results, but only so far that they can get away with it. If it's really top 10% they say top 20%. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:47 PM Author: Glittery abnormal hairy legs That data includes students that take clerkships or government jobs. Those people taking clerkships or government jobs include people in the top 10% of the class (in the case of clerkships, most if not all are from the top 10%). This data shows that a good portion of the top 20% will get Biglaw. That said, my point is only that top 20% will be good enough to make cutoffs for Biglaw interviews. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796811) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:51 PM Author: Tan Headpube All we know is that only 10% got AM250 (which isn't necessarily even biglaw.) You can claim that all the clerkship ppl (like 4%) and all the govt people could also have gotten biglaw, but you're clearly speculating.
Why are you so reactionary re: OP? Rising 2L at 'Dozo? |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:59 PM Author: Glittery abnormal hairy legs I think people should be realistic that the odds are against them for getting biglaw if they go to a 2nd tier school. But I think it's unfair to imply that you will graduate with crushing debt unless you are top 10% of the class. I cant speak of Loyola, but BLS and Cardozo are solid schools that provide options if you do reasonably well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796840) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:02 PM Author: Tan Headpube That's just not true. Only 10% get AM250, the rest get government or tiny low paying firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796847) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:14 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt people who arent actually lawyers already just dont understand what the situation is really like. Until you've actually been on 20 interviews only to be offered the same 50 or 55k a year everywhere you go you just cant accept how bad it is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796878) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:53 PM Author: Glittery abnormal hairy legs And one more thing. Not every non-NLJ 250 is contract work. Many will start in the $80k range. Yeah, it's not Biglaw money, but it's also not contract work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796825) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:56 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt contract work actually results in you making more than 80k a year.
Most people are actually starting at 50-60k. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:56 PM Author: Tan Headpube There are very few $80k jobs. See http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_legal_studi/2007/09/distribution-of.html
You really should stop insisting on things when you have no idea what you are talking about. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:05 PM Author: Glittery abnormal hairy legs I'm done arguing, but that chart does not disprove that a top-20% student at Cardozo or BLS will be nearly guaranteed interviews with a firm paying at least $80k. Yes, there are a relatively low amount of jobs paying that much. That says nothing about top-20% students at these schools. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796858) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:09 PM Author: Tan Headpube There are very few firms paying $80k. It's feast or famine. http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_legal_studi/2007/09/distribution-of.html
You're basically just making stuff up, hoping something sticks. Why I don't know. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:13 PM Author: Glittery abnormal hairy legs My god. There are very few firms paying $80k. There are also very few people in the top 20%. Even if I'm wrong, doesnt this data seem a bit out of date to you? The top peaks of $135 and 145 are clearly not accurate anymore.
Anyway, I'm done posting. I'm sorry things didn't work out; although hopefully with your grades, something will turn up. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:15 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt small law salaries have not risen with biglaw salaries so this data is still good. Biglaw may be paying 160k now but toilet law is still paying 50k. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796882) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:16 PM Author: Tan Headpube You're just making stuff up until you find something that can't easily be disproven. Congrats. Your $80k job lie fit the bill. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796886) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:11 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt whatever, lets pretend these people get these interviews, this segment of the market is paper thin so even if they land one of these jobs the minute they choose to lateral or are forced to leave their options are basically shit. Biglaw still wont have them and you can BASICALLY count on one hand the number of peer firms they can look at before having to move to toilet law like everyone else. For every WEMED there are 20 Stern and Montanas. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796870) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:12 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency Look at the chart again. Dozo/Brooklyn have the same placement as fucking Temple. Temple charges 15k/yr tuition in-state, while Dozo/Brooklyn charge 40k, plus NYC living expenses.
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:54 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt this is complete crap. Most of the clerkships are state clerkships are not particulary competitive. Every year NY has dozens of clerkships spots that it cant even fill because they suck. Cardozo people fill these crap clerkship spots in droves anyway. 2nd department appellate division was looking for people during my admission ceremony! Nobody wants to work low level appeals of no-fault shit brought by the Israel & Israels of the world in Brooklyn.
You are completely unemployeable after doing one of these low level state clerkships anyway. Toilet firms see it as a wasted year that you should have spent actually litigating things in court and not drafting Orders to Show Cause like a paralegal. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:49 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt what you are saying is basically BS. As that NALP study revealed "midlaw" does not really exist. There is biglaw and there there is everything else. What you call midlaw is composed of a relatively small number of boutique firms who specialize in a select few areas of law like IP.
Most smallish firms are generalists, they will take whatever case comes through the door and if they find they cant handle it they have a network of lawyers to which they will refer it out. These firms have zero incentive to really differentiate themselves from all the other firms because differentiation is almost impossible to achieve in this profession so they dont try to specialize and they certainly have zero incentive to pay their people more than the other toilet firms so it is a race to the bottom for the most part. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:56 PM Author: Glittery abnormal hairy legs The study that people reference- http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/regional_NY.pdf includes a large percentage of T2 graduates going to "other firm jobs." Not every "other firm job" is contract work. Many pay salaries that will allow you to repay loans in a realistic time frame. Top 20% at all three schools mentioned will land you multiple interviews with such firms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796832) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:57 PM Author: Tan Headpube That's not what this says http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_legal_studi/2007/09/distribution-of.html
If you don't get AM250, you go to the 50-60k world of small law. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:11 PM Author: excitant cruise ship but after 3-5 yrs, you can open your own office and profit from the labor of idiots who fell for the T2 scam. it all works out in the end, assuming the victim is smart enough to become the predator. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796871) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:12 PM Author: Tan Headpube I guess that's true, but you'd have to be a pretty shitty person. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796872) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:17 PM Author: excitant cruise ship we're taling about lawyers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796892) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:17 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency Couldn't a large prestigious firm make a killing by hiring two top 25% t2 grads at 70k instead of one t14 at 160k, having them bill 2000 hrs, and use the savings in labor (2 for the price of 1!) to enjoy a price advantage over competition? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796890) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:19 PM Author: Tan Headpube There are threads about this. Basically the consensus seems to be that it takes away from the firm's prestige. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796900) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:21 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency This is assuming that the corporations hiring the big firms go tooth and comb over the resumes of each associate. Work is slowing down now, so things might change. 160k is a hold-over from the dot-com era. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796910) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:23 PM Author: Tan Headpube True. It's just that the first firm to do it will get trashed by everyone else. *points laughts* "Those TTTs only pay $75k." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796922) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:26 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency And Corporates are pissed that law firms are paying 1st year associates 160k. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796933) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:30 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt all they have to do is visit the firms website. It is industry standard now to put associate bios on the website. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796959) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:43 PM Author: excitant cruise ship eh, another bad assumption. what's to stop firms from calling the ttt lawyers something other than "associate.?" how about "legal analyst," and then there's no need to mention that these people exist. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796997) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:47 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt the title would show up on the bill though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797009) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:50 PM Author: excitant cruise ship not necessarily. lawyers are jews, and jews are crafty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797026) |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 6:06 PM Author: slippery volcanic crater native Subject: Uh, seriously? Corporations are mad at lawyer salaries because of the RATES firms charge them. As long as partners want to maximize profitability, those rates aren't changing. Partners could slash rates and employ lawyers from lesser schools for less money, but then corporations -- who have to answer to stockholders, etc, etc -- would be unwilling to trust these firms with important matters.
With regard to fees, which do you think is a stronger argument: I am charging you thousands of dollars but we've got a Harvard grad working on it, or we're charging you thousands of dollars and we've got a 'Dozo grad working on it?
Corporate leaders, like law firms, are often risk averse. An officer wont lose his job if he hires the Harvard grad and things go badly. He'll say that he hired the best. However, if he hires the low cost leader he may have a hard time answering to shareholders and superiors if shit hits the fan.
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:20 PM Author: excitant cruise ship you would think so, but this probably wouldn't work in practice. this is because there's probably a huge difference in iq between a t14 grad and just about anybody at a T2. the few who can hang in the big leagues are already there, and are not stupid enough to work for 1/2 price. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796908) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:25 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt lol, you are so wrong its funny so let me enlighten you.
The clients of biglaw are primarily publicly traded companies. The executives of these firms have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interest of the corporation. They insist on having only T14 grads and Vault100 firms do their legal work because anything else opens them up to a charge of breach of fiduciary duty. Money is no option for them since it is the corporations money, they dont care much about the size of the legal bill, but they do care about covering their own ass over any charge they they didnt fulfill their fiduciary duty of care. In fact, the larger their legal bill the more it looks like they did their HW. This is why biglaw firms can get away with charging so much more than all other firms. Shareholders are largely clueless about how they are being ripped off. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:37 PM Author: excitant cruise ship i see why you got shit grades in LS.
"The executives of these firms have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interest of the corporation"
this is laughable gibberish. i don't think you understand that the fiduciary standard is met simply by hiring COMPETENT lawyers. there's no need to hire SUPERSTARS. there are other reasons for doing that.
"They insist on having only T14 grads and Vault100 firms do their legal work because anything else opens them up to a charge of breach of fiduciary duty."
LOL! that's right. the T14 lawyers have the secret knowledge not given to the guys who attended places like ucla, usc and vandy. please fucking kill yourself.
"Money is no option (you mean object, right?) for them since it is the corporations money"
this is wrong. corporations are notoriously cheap, and managers are routinely rewarded for saving cash.
"Shareholders are largely clueless about how they are being ripped off"
lol! major shareholders know exactly what's going on with their investments, and would NOT pay big firms big money, unless there were substantial benefits in doing so. you really need to rid yourself of the idea that an investor has the mind of a 10 year old.
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:45 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt I did some doc review so I know how the bigfirms are ripping off their clients. I know about the associates who come down to have conference calls about our doc review with the clients accountant for 2 hours where they talk about NOTHING. I know about the paralegals who make 20 copies of things when the client only needs 3 but then they bill the client for all 20. They then go about losing 17 of the 20 copies and make them again!
I know about the doc reviewers who go missing for half the day and everyone knows about it but nobody care because the firm still bills for their hours.
Biglaw is ridiculously wasteful and the clients dont care because it is all about ass covering. Legal expenses are different from all other expenses because lawyers cover the ass of the executives.
They hire superstars because thats the surest way they can be sure no one will challenge their definition of "competence."
They bitch about the 160k starting salaries but no Fortune 500 has left Skadden for WEMED yet and they wont even though WEMED is actually full of biglaw refugees. Why? Because the size of the bill is part of how they meausure competence. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:05 PM Author: excitant cruise ship "I did some doc review so I know how the big firms are ripping off their clients. I know about the associates who come down to have conference calls about our doc review with the clients accountant for 2 hours where they talk about NOTHING. I know about the paralegals who make 20 copies of things when the client only needs 3 but then they bill the client for all 20. They then go about losing 17 of the 20 copies and make them again!
I know about the doc reviewers who go missing for half the day and everyone knows about it but nobody care because the firm still bills for their hours."
of course there will be minor scams here and there. but you can't get by with that on a grand scale. remember that corporations have inside attorneys who know when the billing bullshit passes a certain acceptance. we're not talking about some dumb 20 yr old girl dealing with an auto mechanic for the 1st time.
"Biglaw is ridiculously wasteful and the clients don't care because it is all about ass covering. Legal expenses are different from all other expenses because lawyers cover the ass of the executives."
they definitely care about waste. in most cases, it's just not significant enough to call bullshit. we're talking about corporation making hundreds of millions of dollars (if not billions) every year. who the fuck is going to cry about overcharges of a few grand here and there?
also, keep in mind that more and more legal work is being outsourced to sand nigs who work for about 1/3 of what a US lawyer charges.
"They hire superstars because thats the surest way they can be sure no one will challenge their definition of 'competence.'
no. they hire them because they are extreme nerds who willing work 14 hr days and are very conscientious. but, as i mention above, corps are starting to wonder about the need for such high-priced talent, when sand nigs can perform almost as well for a lot less money.
"They bitch about the 160k starting salaries but no Fortune 500 has left Skadden for WEMED yet and they wont even though WEMED is actually full of biglaw refugees. Why? Because the size of the bill is part of how they measure competence."
some places are slow to change. but change is def. happening. 10 yrs ago, you would've laughed at the idea of big companies using a law firm in india or panama. haven't you ever heard the saying that the only constant is change?
you have to wonder why anybody would use these places if the only way to meet a fiduciary duty was to hire firms that exclusively employ t14 grads.
http://www.thelawyer.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=124045
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:13 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency This will never take off imo.
With a falling US dollar (it should have 70% lopped off from its peak imo) and the cultural barriers, sending legal work to india is a bad move, especially since you could hire a T2 firm for less, and have more or less the same quality work. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:17 PM Author: excitant cruise ship it's been going on for years. and i mistakenly said the sand nigs work for 1/3 of us lawyers. it's more like 1/10.
"Aug. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Bruce Masterson, chief operating officer of Socrates Media LLC, asked his outside counsel to customize a residential lease for all 50 U.S. states in 2003. The firm's estimate: about $400,000. He rejected that price tag and hired QuisLex, in Hyderabad, India, which did it for $45,000.
`It was good quality,' said Masterson, whose Chicago-based company publishes legal forms on the Internet. `We've been working together ever since.'
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBo8DnfekWZQ&refer=home
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:21 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency it's easier to outsource numbers work to india, such as engineering or software.
much more difficult for law. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:35 PM Author: excitant cruise ship yea, it looked really hard for that guy to send his legal work to the sand nigs and save a few hundred grand. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797171) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:44 PM Author: Tan Headpube Law isn't really rocket science. As long as they know what they're doing it should work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797205) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:51 PM Author: excitant cruise ship this is completely wrong. only t14 grads can meet the fiduciary standard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797237) |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 6:10 PM Author: slippery volcanic crater native My "guess" is that you're a retard. He's right. While a tier four lawyer may be every bit as good as a lawyer from Yale, perception is everything.
If things go badly, people are going to question why an unknown firm with lawyers from sub-par schools was working on important matters. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:26 PM Author: Razzmatazz business firm laser beams what do you think temp attorneys are? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796934) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:28 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency Good point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796949) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:38 PM Author: excitant cruise ship they don't do any meaningful legal work. a monkey could do doc review and would be doing it if the laws were more realistic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796983) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:53 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt firms are hiring temps to do other things now. Do you still work in law or what? When I was I temp I was doing some legal research and memo writing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797039) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:09 PM Author: excitant cruise ship "When I was I temp I was doing some legal research and memo writing."
only shit. how were you able to meet the firm's fiduciary responsibility? i thought only t14 grads were capable of that.
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:19 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt unfortunately the statistics for solos are very sad. Most solos fail and end up going back to working for someone else. And most of the ones that dont fail still make shit money. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796902) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:22 PM Author: Tan Headpube But if you take on a ton of shit work, and hire $15/hour clerks to do it, you can pull six figs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796912) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:26 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt thats the theory the no-fault mills in NY have. Most of the partners at these firms still make shit money. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796937) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:30 PM Author: Tan Headpube They make liek 100k to 200k though right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796956) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:31 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt yeah, but compare that to biglaw people with the same # of years of experience! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796962) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:23 PM Author: excitant cruise ship wrong. look around your area. the same lawyers there 10 yrs ago are still there today. and they make quite a bit of money, repeatedly ripping off idiots who get themselves in all sorts of family/criminal problems. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796917) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:24 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency It's possible. But you have to have entrepreneurial moxie. People who can pull a solo would be a successful entrepreneur anywhere, and likely more prosperous. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796926) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:33 PM Author: appetizing twisted pit becky You can be nerdier in law. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796969) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:28 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt no doubt the old timers are doing well, but what you dont readily see is all the young guns who went solo and closed shop 6 months later. There are tons of people like this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796943) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:30 PM Author: excitant cruise ship you're exaggerating the failure rate of solo professionals. 90% of the guys who started up 5 yrs ago are still in business today. we're not talking about restaurants or other high-risk ventures. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796960) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:32 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt it is more like 50%. Have you seen the # of solos who get disbarred? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796966) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:13 PM Author: excitant cruise ship really fucking hard to get disbarred. i wasn't talking about lawyers who openly steal from their clients. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797110) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:35 PM Author: Tan Headpube You just totally made that statistic up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796973) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:32 PM Author: Tan Headpube If I went solo I would just work out of my apartment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796965) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:49 PM Author: excitant cruise ship never seen that, but i have seen a few working out of a house. either one probably works OK, since you'd be serving the lowest common denominator.
in LA, there's one crim. def. guy who moonlights as a porn star. most of his clients think it's very cool. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:53 PM Author: Tan Headpube link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797034) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:07 PM Author: excitant cruise ship http://cbs5.com/watercooler/L.A.Attorney.2.251748.html (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797090) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:20 PM Author: Tan Headpube Wow his wife's in porn too His bar site http://members.calbar.ca.gov/search/member_detail.aspx?x=66870 |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:33 PM Author: excitant cruise ship he attended the worst LS in CA
you can get in with an AA (2.0 gpa) and a 147 (or whatever the 31st percentile is these days) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:40 PM Author: Tan Headpube I should call him for advice. He doesn't seem to be raking it in, but he must be doing OKish. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797192) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:50 PM Author: excitant cruise ship he probably lets his clients come onto porn sets for a few grand under the table. he tells them it's the best way to "break into" the business. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797230) |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 6:16 PM Author: Histrionic Parlour Milk im kinda doubtful about this--got any links/evidence?
Texas Bar publishes extensive stats every few years I can dig it up...
[I know this is 2 weeks late] |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:53 PM Author: exhilarant bistre principal's office place of business will you enjoy your bar trip to the welfare office? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796824) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 4:55 PM Author: Tan Headpube I would totally take FS, and buy bulk stuff with it. I'm no kidding poor, by any definition. Tons of debt. Limited income.
I really should look into whether I can get food stamps. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:23 PM Author: Wonderful Base That sucks man, you have my serious condolences. I'd seriously think about law enforcement or some type of fed gig if possible, you get loan forgiveness(of certain consolidated loans) after 10 years, and pay isn't terrible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796921) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:28 PM Author: Tan Headpube I can make $55k or so after I pass teh bar. The debt is the problem. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796944) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:39 PM Author: Wonderful Base Is there any way you can get someone to help you consolidate by rolling it into a 15-30 year fixed? If you have a rich uncle or the rents have mostly paid off their mortgage, a 30-yr fixed is 6.08% with refinancing options later on if it dips. That would lower your interest rate by rolling one into the other and also by spreading it out over 30 years it becomes less soul-crushing.
EDIT: I believe a 30 yr-fixed at around 6% is 900 a month, which would be gay to have to pay for 30 years, but I think it's not the worst shape to be in. By year 20 into your career, plus factoring in time value of money, 900 a month will be shit anyway. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:48 PM Author: Tan Headpube I already consolidated some. I'll do the rest after the grace period passes.
Even if it's just $900 a month, that can be a huge amount when you make about $2,700 a month. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:08 PM Author: Wonderful Base Yeah, but the 900 stays constant, whereas your income(hopefully) does not. It would be a huge chunk of your income for the first few years, but once you get around year 6-7 you should be in good shape and even if you barely get raises above the level of inflation, you should be fine by then. If it's feasible, I think that that might be the best solution. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797096) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:28 PM Author: excitant cruise ship lol @ the assumption that a typical law grad can become a cop. do you have any idea what steet patrol involves? after a couple weeks, he'd want to shot himself in the mouth.
there's a reason the folks at wonderlic warn police agencies NOT to hire somebody who falls outside the normal iq range for this job (104-114). |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:33 PM Author: Tan Headpube What jobs does Wonderlic recommend for people with high IQs? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796970) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:37 PM Author: excitant cruise ship the usual suspects: medicine, law, engineering, college teaching, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797177) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:37 PM Author: Wonderful Base No one said a typical law grad can become a cop. No shit you still have to go to police academy or some sort of police training, your JD isn't going to let you waltz in and get a cushy desk job. No shit it's hard, which is why it has great benefits and attrition is still high.
With that said, it's still a great career where the OP can retire in 20 years(like pharmD or Optometry/DDS), and at least is one where a JD from BLS wouldn't hurt.
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:28 PM Author: excitant cruise ship it's a shit job, mainly for the dumbs. did you watch the reality show called "the academy"? jesus christ. 95% of the recruits were retarded. even worse, 95% of the people he'd meet on the job would be even dumber (ghetto nigs/spics, trailer park whites, etc).
it makes sense only if you can land a cush job (like beach patrol) in a nice city. good luck with that.
http://www.ci.manhattan-beach.ca.us/Index.aspx?page=177
the OP would probably end up with LA sheriff and be stuck in the jails for 5 yrs. then he'd end up like this:
http://www.topix.com/city/carson-ca/2007/11/la-sheriffs-deputy-arrested-in-child-predator-sting
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:01 PM Author: Wonderful Base Most people you meet are retarded. Yeah, it'd suck ass to have to go to some trailer park because some white trash hit his live-in wife/cousin/niece one too many times. Then again, I might get some major lulz out of it, I don't know. Depending on your personal disposition, it's not a terrible hand to be dealt.
Sure it's an excellent job for dumbs, you can start at around 19, work for 20 years, retire with pension/health care at 39 and do whatever the fuck you want, but as long as you don't apply to SE DC, or shit holes like that, it's not a terrible gig. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:16 PM Author: Flirting fanboi private investor TITCR.you will end up in jail. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797331) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:25 PM Author: Emerald Bull Headed Friendly Grandma You'll learn more in your time of suffering that you would if you got everything you wanted. Consider your challenges a blessing in disguise. You'll struggle early on, but things will get better if you're patient and keep things in perspective. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796928) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:29 PM Author: Tan Headpube lol. ty. *hopes for more suffering* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796954) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:34 PM Author: appetizing twisted pit becky Mother Teresa, is that you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796972) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:36 PM Author: Emerald Bull Headed Friendly Grandma Is that where I got it from? I know someone famous said something to that effect. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9796975) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:48 PM Author: shaky drab school dysfunction You really can't blame anyone but yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797012) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:51 PM Author: Tan Headpube I blame the school's deceptive marketing and striking an unfair deal.
I'm not the one who charges a fortune and gives garbage in return. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:53 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency Well, for the sake of...okay, what did you rely on in choosing Cardozo at full-price? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797041) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:07 PM Author: shaky drab school dysfunction So what have you done for yourself to get a better job? You have the grades, I imagine you did some summer work, you're probably a social retard/sloth if you can't land a job with everything you have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797091) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:22 PM Author: Tan Headpube Letters, calls etc.. I don't have the grades. Firms say they can stretch to take a top 15% guy, but not top 20%. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797136) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 5:59 PM Author: fear-inspiring casino Dude, I'm no expert, but something about the consensus advice offered on this board doesn't add up.
Every other thread is about how you shouldn't even consider going to law school unless you get into Yale or Harvard or something. That can't be right, can it?
I know people who went to crappy schools in my state who do pretty well for themselves. And yet this board makes it sound like you will end up unemployed or cleaning toilets if you don't go to Harvard.
How can this be right? |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:04 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency lot of it is exaggeration, no doubt.
problem is that USNWR and Princeton Review paint a distorted picture, which results in people going into a typical T2 like Cardozo or Brooklyn and assuming that they will make the average starting salary stated on the website of 100k, so it's okay to pay 60k/yr in tuition and living expenses because the average grad makes 100k, enabling you to pay it off in 5 years.
Then at 3L, they realize that the 100k jobs don't exist, it's either 160k or 45k. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:07 PM Author: federal church building people who are hurt titcr, the only people who are really screwed are the ones who paid full price or close to it. They will never get out of debt if they dont get biglaw. Everyone else will make do after a point. I have very little debt so while I am unhappy with where I am I do not have to worry about debt. Debt is the real problem. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797092) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:13 PM Author: fear-inspiring casino Maybe the people I know were bright enough to have attended better schools but got scholarships to lesser schools or something. I don't know.
It's just that I've never heard of this idea of an epidemic of starving unemployable lawyers, outside of this board. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:16 PM Author: Wonderful Base No one is starving, but no one is exactly bragging about 60k a year after 3 years of grad school either. It's a bit of hyperbole on this board, but much of what is talked about is credited.
If you want a job that is a lock for 40 hours a week and 6 figures, become a dentist or a pharmacist. I'd personally rimjob some chick before I'd count pills or examine teeth all day, but good jobs nonetheless if you can stomach them. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:19 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency I wouldn't bank on those. Especially pharmacists, with Walmart getting into the game.
Law, like dentists and pharmacists, doctors, accountants, are a constructed regulatory guild. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:57 PM Author: Wonderful Base That's true, and Wal-Mart/Costco are getting into Optometry too. Vets might have to align with Petsmart/Banfield too. Pretty soon with socialized medicine we might as well all been electricians. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797257) |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 10:02 AM Author: Ruddy Crotch Candlestick Maker What's wrong with tossing a chick's salad? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9848099) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:05 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency Without Biglaw, a law degree is worth something like 5-10k a year. Too many people come in to law school with $$$ in their eyes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797078) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:13 PM Author: Wonderful Base It's prolly closer to the 10k portion if you go to a respected regional school. Having a law degree over not having one will always be a boon towards promotion, and in the long run it'll prolly pay off. (although who cares about reaching equilibrium at age 55). If you can parlay your job into something synergistic, maybe being a mortgage broker, obviously you'll make more than the 10k.
I still regret not going to UF for 4k tuition a year + low ass CoL. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:23 PM Author: Tan Headpube Not necessarily. It can also make you unhirable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797140) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:34 PM Author: Flirting fanboi private investor absolutely. you need to pick an occupation by what you actually are interested in, not what is lucrative. otherwise you will be a wealthy but depressed individual, unless you are TTT, you will be a poor and depressed individual. then, you will become a mexican. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797165) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:46 PM Author: excitant cruise ship people end up in LS because nothing interests them.
also, you are most likely living in a fantasy world. i've yet to meet anybody who liked his job.
the happy doods are the ones employing others and taking most of what they bring in.
go to med. school.
work as a slave for a few yrs.
open up several offices (something cosmetic would be best. insurance companies are bastards)
enjoy the fruits of others labor
PROFIT |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:11 PM Author: beady-eyed property What doesn't add up is the supply and demand for lawyers.
Cleaning toilets is actually a better deal than TTT law if you want to live in a big city. In NY toilet cleaners are part of a powerful union and they all make in the mid to high teens per hour. Not a great wage but realize that they didn't have to pay for LS or UG. Hell, many are illegals.
I think if you want to be a divorce lawyer out in the middle of nowhere, you might be OK for a while, but that's kind of hiding in a corner from the supply/demand imbalance and hoping it doesn't come and find you.
Law is the worst dead-end job I know of. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:17 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency Having a law degree is still better than having an MBA or any variety of administrative masters degrees that are out there.
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:30 PM Author: Tan Headpube I don't know much about the MBA market. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797157) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:37 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency MBA is worse than law because MBA doesn't actually allow you entry to a field that you would not have had otherwise. More prestige-driven too. Most of value comes from factors external to the academics. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797182) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:54 PM Author: excitant cruise ship false for consulting/certain wall st. jobs. most mba's are too dumb for a phd in something hard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797248) |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 11:39 AM Author: Dashing goyim theater stage it would be very difficult if not impossible to break into most consulting/banking jobs if you're, say, 26 and have no experience in that field. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9848222) |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 11:37 AM Author: Dashing goyim theater stage LOL yeah i'd much rather have a JD from brooklyn or something than an mba from chicago or a masters in finance from CMU. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9848221) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:24 PM Author: Tan Headpube Just thought of a deposition I recently attended, where the guy operating the camera got paid like $100/hour. How can I get that job? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797142) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:27 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency get into the union. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797147) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:30 PM Author: Tan Headpube The guys operating cameras at depositions have a union? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797158) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:32 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency either that or be a contractor, ie you provide your own equipment, sinking thousands into your camera and crew.
hollywood has lots of stage unions. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:33 PM Author: Flirting fanboi private investor yes, the stage unions are excellent. you have to know someone to get in, kind of like the longshoreman's union. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797162) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:36 PM Author: Mind-boggling water buffalo and we should "support unions" because? stupid corrupt bastards. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797172) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:37 PM Author: Flirting fanboi private investor i said nothing about support. they actually work 3 days a week and earn more money than most teachers. it's pretty much a scam for everyone else. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797179) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:42 PM Author: Tan Headpube Why isn't there a legal union? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797200) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:44 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency It's the ABA.
Unfortunately, legally it's very difficult to throttle the likes of Cooley, because they do meet the letter of the basic ABA guidelines. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:54 PM Author: Mind-boggling water buffalo i wouldn't want a union because they'd corrupt the whole process. if there was one, i never would have gotten biglaw because i didn't know anyone. fuck unions, they can suck my asshole. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797247) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:34 PM Author: Mind-boggling water buffalo you're an idiot, but maybe you can sue your TTT for fraud if they misrepresented their salary information. if there was no fraud, then this is really your own fault. you chose to take on this debt to attend your TTT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797164) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:36 PM Author: Flirting fanboi private investor i thought people on this web-site were sposed to be smart (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797174) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:41 PM Author: Tan Headpube I'm waiting to see how the cooking school suit goes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797197) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:52 PM Author: Mind-boggling water buffalo i've heard they've already won some of those suits (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797238) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:45 PM Author: Lascivious theatre immigrant o hi (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797210) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:47 PM Author: Tan Headpube lol. Sorry to steal your shtick. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797220) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:48 PM Author: underhanded ape cum work for gross old man? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797225) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:50 PM Author: Pungent lay halford it's you dude. my retarded step-cousin was median at a t2 like that and landed market LA. he has friends who did the same thing in NY and Chi. granted they are fairly personable, and hustled a lot (good externships and shit) but median grades. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797232) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:51 PM Author: Mind-boggling water buffalo hi evil dean of loyola! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797235) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:54 PM Author: Pungent lay halford is loyola really a t2? don't get me wrong. i think the entire third tier needs to be wiped off the planet. literally. that said, a smart hustler at a tier-2 can land a market job with median grades. period. and dont' get me wrong, i recognize that half the shitbags on law review at those schools can't get a job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797249) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:56 PM Author: Mind-boggling water buffalo loyola la is T2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797251) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:58 PM Author: Pungent lay halford hrm. well, it's a shithole. regardless i guarantee there are one or two kids there with median grades and market jobs. i won't guarantee they aren't nontrads though.
seriously, grades are critical for normal OCI, but there are kids who get around it. i know of THREE personally. the odds demand that there are obviously plenty more if that's the case.
again, i also acknowledge that the average law student doesn't have the "skills" to pull it off. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:02 PM Author: Tan Headpube Your guarantee isn't worth anything.
The numbers don't lie. http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/regional_CA.pdf |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:04 PM Author: Pungent lay halford read my post below you stupid fuck. i'm not arguing there are more than three kids in your school who can even tie their shoes. this isn't a numbers argument. my point is that if you weren't a fucking tard you'd prob be at a better school, but even if not, if you weren't a fucking tard like most of your classmates you could still make something of yourself despite your school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797288) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:08 PM Author: Tan Headpube Here come the losers playing out successful pwner guy fantasy. Just stop. You embarrass us and yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797305) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:08 PM Author: beady-eyed property By "skills" you mean being really hot, sucking dick, and taking it up the ass. Really.
These aren't average-looking straight white males you're talking about here. For a normal white dood to get biglaw out of Loyola LA, you better be well within the top 10% AND have a great personality. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:25 PM Author: Tan Headpube I wonder if there is such a thing as a great personality. Really, who do you know IRL who has "a great personality?" Have you ever given someone something because of their "great personality?"
As long as you're not a total asshole I don't think your personality matters. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:58 PM Author: Pungent lay halford ...and you're the expert in unemployment here. (you're constructively unemployed as far as I'm concerned). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797479) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:21 PM Author: Tan Headpube I asked a question about IRL, so you'll have to respond with your IRL loser persona, and not your xo successful pwn guy persona.
Or better yet, perhaps you can just leave this thread? |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:58 PM Author: Tan Headpube Actually, only 5% of Loyola gets NLJ 250 http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/regional_CA.pdf
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:53 PM Author: Tan Headpube That's preposterous, but I'll ignore it as you have a reputation for being cliche flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797242) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:56 PM Author: Pungent lay halford i'm telling the truth. i'll swear on anything.
may I be outted if i am lying. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:00 PM Author: Tan Headpube Only 5% of Loyola (not even 10% like Dozo) get NLJ 250. http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/regional_CA.pdf
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:03 PM Author: Pungent lay halford LISTEN YOU FUCKING RETARD. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUCK I'M SAYING.
THERE ARE PROBABLY ONLY THREE KIDS IN YOUR ENTIRE PIECE OF SHIT LAW SCHOOL WHO ARE SMART/PERSONABLE ENOUGH TO HUSTLE THAT WELL. MY POINT, HOWEVER, IS THAT YOU CAN'T BLAME YOUR SCHOOL. 95% THE APPLICANTS, LIKE YOU, ARE FUCKING RETARDS. WTF DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO WITH YOU?
YOU DON'T GET WHY WE THINK SCHOOLS LIKE YOURS SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN. MOST OF THE KIDS, INCLUDING THE HIGH GRADERS, ARE FUNCTIONALLY RETARDED. THAT SAID, A SMART KID WITH THAT EDUCATION COULD MAKE SOMETHING OF HIMSELF. YOU DON'T QUALIFY. HTFH |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:04 PM Author: Mind-boggling water buffalo a smart person wouldn't have that education. they never would have taken the T2 risk in the first place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797290) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:06 PM Author: Tan Headpube Maybe a URM. You're Mexican IIRC? I know of some undeserving latino URMs (top 30%) who got good gigs, but that's neither here nor there for most people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797298) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:37 PM Author: Pungent lay halford no, actually all three examples are white hetero average looking guys. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797657) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:42 PM Author: Tan Headpube Dood, I really don't feel like humoring your successful pwn guy xo persona. Do you mind leaving the thread? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797686) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:46 PM Author: Pungent lay halford several months ago i did a thread on this subject - losers from TTTs who blame their TTTs for their plight. we all think ttt's should be shut down, but to be clear, dumb fucks like you are half the problem. do your research first. let's be honest, you've never been *that* smart or you wouldn't have ended up there. what made you think you were qualified to pursue a career in law? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797711) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:50 PM Author: Tan Headpube Dood go play your successful pwn guy fantasy with someone who wants to humor you. I'm not reading your posts anymore. Go away. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797737) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 6:56 PM Author: Mind-boggling water buffalo SUE YOUR TTT FOR FRAUD!!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797255) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:17 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency Seriously, d00d, describe your decision-making process in detail pls. You know, before you paid all that money to Cardozo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797333) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 7:21 PM Author: Tan Headpube There's a line of people trying to get into a cardozo'ish school. Their acceptance rate is only like 20%. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797344) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:22 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency So how excited were you? How much faith did you put in the salary statistics? Did you just assume that everything would work out fine? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797583) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:24 PM Author: Tan Headpube Not "I'm going to Harvard" excited, but still pretty excited. I was excited throughout 1L.
Of course I believed them. Maybe they were inflated by 5-10%, but I expected to make something in that range. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:27 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency How was your class 1L year? Did they undergo a similar transition, and were a handful of them xoxo smart from the get-go? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797599) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:49 PM Author: Tan Headpube Actually, you ask an excellent question.
Overall, 1L was awesome. Everyone was excited about being a bigtime lawyer. In a way, we sort of felt guilty that we had been given such great opportunity while so many "average people" struggled.
As far as how things progressed, there were two groups.
One group was like me. Slowly, starting with winter 2L and continuing until late 3L, we realized how bad we've been fucked and became bitter about the whole experience. Our conversations went from "we're so excited" to "this school is a fucking joke."
Then the other group. They were in the professors' office every day doing problems with them, to get hints on how to answer the exam. At first I thought they were total douchebags. They had that personality. You know, that "trip your fellow man" weasily personality? I felt they were doomed for life because they weren't team players. Almost all of them transferred. The ones who didn't got decent jobs at OCI. They're still weasily assholes. You can't stand to talk to them for more than a minute. Their personality never really changed. Shitty and miserly at the start. Shitty and miserly at the end. |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 9:33 PM Author: Trip Gas Station National Security Agency Wow, and no in-between?
I'm a little afraid that, my personality at least, will be like the latter group. G'luck is all I can say, d00d. |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 11:16 AM Author: copper tanning salon mood The people in the second group understood the fact that you were all competing with one another. It sounds like they were being gunners, but did not do anything below-the-belt such as cheating on exams or disseminating false information.
There's that old joke about two campers being awakened by a marauding bear. One camper puts on his shoes and the other one says, "Why are you putting on your shoes? You can't outrun the bear!" To which the first camper says, "I don't have to outrun the bear!"
The competitive guys were on the ball, and you were not. I'm sure they don't care that everyone else thought they were shitty and miserly—they're laughing all the way to the bank.
Lesson: Life's tough, and sometimes only the shitty and miserly survive. Take this lesson and run with it. |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 12:19 PM Author: Chestnut Learning Disabled Giraffe This is the problem with hiring TTT grads in biglaw. You're hiring desperate cut-throat people who others will not enjoy interacting with. I'd much rather have a median student out of Penn than a top 2% out of Brooklyn. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9848277) |
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Date: May 17th, 2008 8:46 PM Author: aromatic legend point you should have gone to iu law. vault ranked it 14th in the country for career placement and i'm sure they would have given you money. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9797716) |
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Date: May 31st, 2008 12:37 AM Author: Curious walnut resort mediation lolz!!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9844491) |
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Date: May 18th, 2008 8:58 PM Author: Tan Headpube I still feel shitty. Everything seems bad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9800793) |
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Date: May 31st, 2008 1:40 AM Author: bright wild wrinkle Listen, if you were stuck with the options you have *right now* you would be in a truly shitty situation. But you're not.
What you can do is work the legal jobs you can get now, build your experience, and in a couple years (or much less, actually) transfer to some other firm that will pay you better.
If you stick with it, you could end up just as well off as any other JD out there.
It won't necessarily be easy, but you're not as fucked as you may think.
I just hope your loans don't have too high an interest rate. |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 3:50 PM Author: crawly state famous landscape painting TITCR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9848949) |
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Date: May 31st, 2008 1:45 AM Author: marvelous theater to give you hope:
drives a Rolls Royce, lives in a $20 mil. house, has a second $3.5 mil. house in Phoenix. you might be able to do well too (but remember, you'll never be THE Heavy Hitter). |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 8:54 AM Author: Irradiated nowag I don't know if OP is a flame or not but I am a practicing atty here in NYC who unfortunately isn't making out all that much $$ wise (in my practice area, if you get to $80K you are doing pretty well). The debt really is the problem, and unfortunately that die has already been cast so now you should focus your efforts on living within your means and finding a 2nd part time job. Most lawyers have them, even as they climb the salary ladder (my 2nd PT job is doing RE closings which net anywhere from $150 to $450/month as an IC). Don't feel bad about your $18/hr job either, my first attorney job back in 2002 paid a pathetic $37K/yr and given that NYC was devastated by 9/11, it was the best job offer I got. :(
Hang in there and welcome to the legal profession, I guess.
:(
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Date: June 1st, 2008 6:04 PM Author: excitant cruise ship you sound like an amazing idiot. how bad were your grades? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9849333) |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 6:12 PM Author: Diverse spot Didn't a ton of good employees just get laid off at Bear Stearns and Lehman??? What's up with assuming no job = bad performance??? Did Bear Stearns almost file for chapter 13 because an individual employee fucked up? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9849345) |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 6:13 PM Author: excitant cruise ship only idiots got laid off by those shit holes. the smart doods jumped ship long ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9849352) |
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Date: June 1st, 2008 7:57 PM Author: Irradiated nowag Bottom 1/3rd at BLS however the market stunk and I was lucky to get the job offer right after I sat for the bar exam at the end of July (I started working the last week of August). Was there for 3 years and the starting salary was 37K. Of course now I am making more $$ and hopefully depending on the lateral job interviews I am going on, I will be in the 75-90K range..we shall see. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=815176&forum_id=2#9849791) |