Taking Q's on Classical Music (1650 - 1975) ONLY for a limited time (TBF)
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Poast new message in this thread
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Date: December 18th, 2021 12:22 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
Limiting this to American-born composers who primarily composed "concert music" (i.e. excluding Broadway / Pop / Jazz composers who also occasionally wrote classical pieces):
Pre-WWII: Charles Ives (mostly for his attitude and historical significance)
Post-WWI: Samuel Barber
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43630872) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 12:25 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
It did produce a few (Purcell, Elgar, Britten, etc.), but it's definitely one of the weakest facets of their otherwise strong cultural achievement and there are long periods of history where there is no major native-born figure of importance that they can even pretend to brag about, so it's a good question.
The "popular" academic answer is that the combined effects of Handel + Mendelssohn (both of whom spent a tremendous amount of their respective careers in Britain and were very popular with the royals and thus exerted an overpowering influence on the island to a degree that no single composer ever did across mainland Europe) + the extremely hierarchical class and social system of the country (which allegedly helped to amplify this effect) combined to turn British musical culture into a musically stagnant knockoff factory for ~250 years. I'm not sure I entirely buy that explanation; it could also be that Brits are just fucking faggots who lack souls.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43630886) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 12:32 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
It wasn't, it was just different (except unironically).
Bach is the epitome of the Baroque and there is absolutely nothing "classical" about his style.
Mahler was one of the greatest conductors of all time and a first rank composer, but he is nevertheless grossly overrated today (he's a more popular symphonist than Brahms lmao) because we live in a sick and morally deranged society run by evil Jews for their own benefit and self-aggrandizement.
Messiaen is 173.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43630928) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 12:42 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
Messian also extends beyond 1975.
I don't know Grisey well.
Messiaen was a bit of a modern-day Berlioz, and there are some substantial weaknesses in his fundamental compositional technique (just like Berlioz) which he partially but not entirely offsets with his incredible ear for color / sonority and phenomenal creativity (just like Berlioz).
Please elaborate on the ways that Bach was "an early influence on Classical" (whatever you think that means). The Rococo Style -- which was a direct precursor to the Classical Style and a temporally intermediate link between the Baroque period and the Classical period -- shares almost nothing in common with Baroque Style, and the early Classical Style was built out of the Rococo Style. It was actually only much later in the Classical period that Mozart etc. began to really rediscovered Bach / Handel and systematically explore their music and incorporate notable elements of purposeful structured counterpoint etc. into their own music. But that would make Bach an influence on later Classical period music, not on the Classical Style as a whole, and certainly not as an "early" influence on the development of Classical Style.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43630998) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 12:33 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
I would not.
Baroque: Vivaldi, Handel, Bach.
Classical: Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven.
I think the classical period holds up just fine.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43630931) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 12:50 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
Bach is God, but Beethoven arguably produced the single greatest and most stylistically wide-ranging collection of musical masterpieces ever created by a single human and he is also arguably the single most historically important cultural figure in the direct development of Western music.
It's pretty much common consensus that Mozart was the single greatest all-around musical genius in recorded history, taking into account all facets of his gifts. Mozart also died at just 36 and Bach lived to 65, so it's impossible to say what Mozart would have produced if he was given Bach's time on earth. The counterpoint at the end of the final movement of the Jupiter Symphony rivals pretty much anything that Bach ever wrote, and I don't say that lightly.
Finally, even if Bach > Mozart and Beethoven (debatable but possible), Mozart + Beethoven + Haydn are collectively definitely > Bach + Handel + Vivaldi are collectively.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43631027) |
Date: December 18th, 2021 12:23 PM Author: Diverse Opaque Space
Most virtuosic piece you’ve ever played?
Different answer for hardest piece?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43630878) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 12:47 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
In the realm of classical music?
The best are probably Chevalier de Saint-Georges, Samuel Coleridge-Taylor ("The Black Mahler"), William Grant Still ("The Dean of African American Composers"), and George Walker. None of them deserve to be discussed alongside the truly great white classical composers.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43631013) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 12:59 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
Theremin and Ondes Martenot are both very difficult instruments that sound amazing when played well.
The Hurdy-gurdy is cool but I wouldn't choose to listen to it for very long. The Zither is an awesome instrument.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43631072) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 2:17 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
Underrated: Scriabin, Albeniz, Enescu
Overrated: John Williams, Vivaldi, all of the Minimalists
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43631404) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 4:28 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
Early Scriabin is *very* different from late Scriabin. Bear that in mind as you explore. You can tell that it comes from the same mind, on some level, but the musical language is like night and day. Early Scriabin sounds kind of like Russified Chopin. Late Scriabin sounds like nothing else.
Albeniz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R13GcRQSPxU
Enescu (written when he was 18): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfxC0j9mbwQ
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43632230) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 3:01 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
180 as a Broadway / Tin Pan Alley composer
172 as a natural musical talent
165 in terms of his actual accomplishments within the realm of concert music prior to his untimely death
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43631681) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 3:18 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
Prokofiev was the greater natural melodist. Stravinsky was the greater everything else. Both were very fine composers, of course.
Musicians love Stravinsky more than Prokofiev because they are trained to respond to craft, and Stravinsky kicked Prokofiev's ass in all of the "professional" metrics and was god-tier as a craftsman. Audiences generally love Prokofiev more than Stravinsky (except for Stravinsky's three early ballet scores) because audiences always have and always will love melody above almost everything else. That's also why they love Tchaikovsky over both of them.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43631800) |
Date: December 18th, 2021 3:17 PM Author: Spruce demanding psychic
Rate this song yes it’s off topic
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vcvH3VMdA4g
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43631792) |
Date: December 18th, 2021 3:18 PM Author: Spruce demanding psychic
How much commonality do you feel with this guy who also loved loved loved classical music?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Heydrich
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43631798) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 3:50 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
Lots of people think that Arthur Rubinstein and Vladimir Horowitz etc. were "the greatest pianists of the 20th century". They're obviously very high level, but they're not even close to the top. The generation of pianists who came before them and sadly left relatively few recordings (Rosenthal, Lhevinne, Hofmann, etc.) far surpassed them in many ways and represented the true golden age of pianism.
Just listen to Lhevinne's recording of Chopin's etude in thirds or his own arrangement of Strauss's "Blue Danube" for a small taste of that vanished and little known musical world.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43631996) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 4:29 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe go fuck yourself.
What do you like?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43632240) |
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Date: December 18th, 2021 4:32 PM Author: Ocher Crawly Hall
To be fair,
Mendelssohn was probably the most naturally brilliant. Gershwin might have had the greatest purely melodic gift. Schoenberg is unquestionably the most historically important (for better or worse, I think most people would say for worse in 2021). Mahler is everyone's favorite now, but consider the state of modern society before you decide whether that makes him truly great or not. Johann Strauss was technically Jewish too, I guess, but his stuff -- while highly enjoyable -- is all unapologetically "light" in nature and was basically the pop / Broadway of his day and has no pretense to depth.
...and just like that, we have completed out tour of the great Jewish composers in Western classical music history (excluding Broadway composers) prior to 1975. Huh. Crazy how even though they dominate high level musically interpretive spheres like performance, and excel at churning out "popular" music, and have been deeply involved in European and American music for centuries, Jews clearly aren't actually some sort of all-mighty master race when it comes to actually creating original musical works at the very highest levels of intellectual, artistic, and spiritual achievement (Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Wagner, etc.-level immortal masterpieces of depth and beauty). Strange! Wonder if there are any conclusions we could possibly draw from that!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4987635&forum_id=2...id.#43632259) |
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