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Roth conversions and pro-rata rule
| ,.,,,. | 12/05/25 |
| Kenneth Play | 12/05/25 |
| ,.,,,. | 12/05/25 |
| ,.,,,. | 12/05/25 |
| Kenneth Play | 12/05/25 |
| ,.,,,. | 12/06/25 |
| Kenneth Play | 12/06/25 |
| ,.,,,. | 12/06/25 |
| .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... | 12/06/25 |
| ,.,,,. | 12/06/25 |
Poast new message in this thread
Date: December 5th, 2025 11:31 PM Author: ,.,,,. If I do pretax 401k-> roth conversion , can I do posttax contributions->roth same year or that would trigger pro-rata? Or as long as I don't do them at the same time, no? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5806858&forum_id=2E#49487711) |
Date: December 5th, 2025 11:36 PM Author: Kenneth Play (emotional girth) i think the only way you run into issues with the pro rata rule is if you hold any pretax money in IRAs. do you?
it's no problem if all your IRAs are roth already |
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Date: December 5th, 2025 11:43 PM Author: ,.,,,. I'm switching jobs and plan to do pretax401k->roth. Not sure yet if the conversion is direct or it goes 401k->traditional ira-> roth. If it does touch traditional ira and then immediately converted, would it affect my post tax conversions on the same year? I.e. on january1st I usually put $7000 posttax ira->roth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5806858&forum_id=2E#49487732) |
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Date: December 5th, 2025 11:43 PM Author: ,.,,,. I hold pretax only in 401ks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5806858&forum_id=2E#49487734) |
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Date: December 5th, 2025 11:57 PM Author: Kenneth Play (emotional girth) oh! the pro rata rule is only an issue on IRAs not 401ks. On 401ks, it's no problem at all if you have mostly pretax money in it, but occasionally make an after tax contribution. you can easily call up vanguard or fidelity or whatever, and say i want to convert only the after tax portion to an in plan roth conversion (if supported by your plan) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5806858&forum_id=2E#49487747) |
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Date: December 6th, 2025 12:22 AM Author: ,.,,,. In plan conversion not supported. Which is why I'm doing pretax-> outside roth conversion after leaving work (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5806858&forum_id=2E#49487802) |
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Date: December 6th, 2025 12:26 AM Author: Kenneth Play (emotional girth) i bet it's fine if you can roll over your existing 401k with after tax contributions to a new employer 401k plan that offers in plan roth conversions, and do the roth conversion on the after tax contributions piece only.
if you're rolling the 401k into an IRA, i think you get fucked by the pro rata rule because you've got a bunch of pretax money in an IRA. |
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Date: December 6th, 2025 12:38 AM Author: ,.,,,. Can I convert directly from pretax401k to roth? And if instead I have to go 401k->ira->roth , then for how long does it trigger pro-rata? I.e. I cannot do any posttax conversions same year or as long as I complete this transaction my ira is 0 again? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5806858&forum_id=2E#49487837) |
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Date: December 6th, 2025 1:22 AM Author: .,.,,...,...,..,....,...,...,... The better question is why the fuck are you doing a Roth conversion when you are in the highest tax bracket? That makes zero sense. The only possible justification is if you think tax rates will go up in the future, but it is very doubtful that they will go up enough for this to be a good idea. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5806858&forum_id=2E#49487870) |
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Date: December 6th, 2025 1:38 AM Author: ,.,,,. I figured that even if my tax rates are lower in retirement over 20years or 30years that's extra 1million that I can accumulate in taxable income, or I can just pay 50k cash from my savings account now. Basically the further u are from retirement the more you gain from putting money into roth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5806858&forum_id=2E#49487876) |