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Crim appeals lawyer taking Qs
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:30 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534524) |
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:31 PM Author: nude mediator For the state or the criminals? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534527) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:32 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: For the criminals, but I get paid by the state. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534531) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:32 PM Author: nude mediator How much do you get paid?
Have you ever gotten a full body sensual massage or gone to one of those Asian massage parlors? |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:36 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: $130/hr, except murders and sex crime are $140
No |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:36 PM Author: nude mediator Ever get rock hard reviewing the record of sex crime stuff?
What’s your annual income? |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:42 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I can't say I haven't. Then when I start thinking about who the people involved are, it goes away quickly. The perps and victims are mostly blacks and latinos, neither of which are attractive to me.
$250-300K. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:44 PM Author: nude mediator That's not bad, do you just get assigned cases by the state and never have to have any client interaction? How'd you get into this line of work? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534579) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:52 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I get "offered" cases, and I can accept or decline them depending on how busy I already am. I can also ask them for a new case if I'm slow. There's always plenty of cases out there.
I have the same professional duties to my clients like any other lawyer, criminal or not, would. I interpret that to mean that I have to keep them informed and answer basic questions in writing. Nothing in the rules that I have to answer their phone calls and listen to them blab incoherently, or that I have to write lengthy letters in response to their annoying letters. I limit client interaction to the extent necessary to satisfy my professional duties and make 95% of them not so mad at me that they file a bar complaint.
I'm former biglaw. I did some criminal appellate stuff in biglaw, and realized that criminal is so much more interesting than the typical "complex commercial litigation" boring as fuck cases. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:53 PM Author: nude mediator where can i apply? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534605) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:59 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Are you a CA lawyer? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534620) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:05 PM Author: nude mediator no but i could easily fly out and pass the bar. do i need to be based there? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534646) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:07 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: No, you don't. But it may be very hard to get on the panels if you're newly admitted, don't live there, don't have CA crim experience, and don't have appellate experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534659) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:11 PM Author: nude mediator what if i say im homeless and/or transgender? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534674) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:32 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: It will probably help! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534744) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:02 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) how much does the state scrutinize your billing? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534635) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:12 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: A ton. The billing is a total headache.
Any work needs to billed to one of 24 different categories of tasks -- client comms, reading the record, opening brief, reply brief, reading the gov's brief, etc. And each category has guidelines. And you have to write an explanation if you go above the guidelines. There's a 100 page "claims manual" setting forth all this crap.
They nickel and dime you like crazy, but after a while you learn how to justify your time and say the right things to get all or most of your claimed time approved. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:16 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) so at this point for you is it essentially like biglaw where your experience enables you to do those tasks in a fraction of the time but you bill whatever you know will be considered reasonable? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534695) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:30 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: What I meant was that I know what to write to explain over-guideline time. For example, the guideline for client comms is 5.0, and you've got to justify anything above that. So if I spend more time, I know that if I claim 10 hours, I need to write out that I write the client x letters and he wrote me y letters and he was very actively involved in his case and the case had complex procedure to explain to him. I can't just make up the number of letters involved because there's a paper trail for that.
Padding is funny because the standard is how long a reasonably experienced attorney would spend. Would a reasonably experienced attorney be able to do shit in a fraction of the time of the guidelines? That's the beancounter's job to figure out, not mine. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:49 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) well the standard is "how many hours you spent" and not "how long would a reasonable attorney have spent" like how mechanics bill for the job. unless things work differently here. i was just wondering how easy it is to get away with padding when the one paying the bills is the state rather than a client. seems like the answer is "even easier", which is 180. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534788) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:10 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Right, it's not an auto mechanic standard. More precisely, the standard is "how many hours you actually spent but we reserve the right to chop your actual hours down based on what we think a reasonably experienced atty would have spent."
The beancounters really scrutinize your claims because they themselves get scrutinized, but they want you to get paid for your time so you just have to know how to say the right things and explain yourself well. But they still end up screwing you over sometimes. Any padding you can do might get eliminated by getting dinged on some other line-item that they're strict about. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:16 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) but if you wrote an appeal for issue X that took 8 hours of research and happened to get an appeal that essentially mirrored that, no beancounter is gonna be like "hey asshole i know that took you less than 8 hours since you just researched the same shit yesterday"? you can pretty safely bill the 8 hour auto mechanic rate per biglaw "bill what you think it should reasonably take" rather than "what it actually took." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534898) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:33 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: One additional point is you're required to disclose "borrowed briefing." It's encouraged to use borrowed briefing, but you have to disclose it and you're welcome to explain what new work you did that you still wanted to get paid for, e.g., verifying and and updating citations, conducting additional research, drafting a fact-specific prejudice analysis.
I ALWAYS disclose borrowed briefing because it's so fucking easy to catch someone who filed a brief with the same issue 6 months ago that he C&P'd.
But even if you disclose the borrowed briefing, the beancounters have a lot of leeway in terms of helping you get paid for the "new work." You wouldn't want to claim 8 hours as if you wrote it ab initio, but you're gonna get more than 0. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:37 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) damn now it sounds like it's even harder to pad.
when i clerked i'd see straight up copy+pasted shit from both sides all the fucking time. although i was at trial level so perhaps the beancounters are less mindful there. i did encounter a few instances of TTTT grad really savoring a sweet treat of scholarship too. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:35 PM Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, have you considered having AI go over your bills to make them look better? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534747) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:43 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I'm not sure how I'd use AI. I don't actually need to itemize my time by date. There's an online portal and each of the 24 categories requires the number of hours and you have an option to add a comment. The comment is supposed to a brief overall explanation of why you billed a lot, not that you worked 2.3 hours on 1/1 doing this, 0.8 hours on 1/2 doing that, etc. It's usually something simple like "Issue II in the opening brief was very complex because it required significant original legal research on [novel issue], and required multi-part issue drafting on the merits and a detailed prejudice analysis."
How do you think I'd be able to use AI in that respect? I'm not really sure. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 9:17 PM Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, yeah maybe that system doesn't lend itself to AI. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535575) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 8:45 PM Author: grand wizard of yakubian tricknology I remember that my post-conviction relief professor mentioned that they only give you like 10 hours to read the record or whatever. Seems SPS. Is your income before self-employment tax? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535458) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 8:49 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: They give us 50 pages an hour to read a record. It's retardedly arbitrary, but it's generally manageable. A typical record in a murder/sex case is maybe 500 pages of clerk's transcript and 1500 pages of reporter's transcript, so 2000 pages, which would be 40 hours.
I'm an S-Corp so I don't pay SE tax. But the income I stated is gross. I can pay myself a reasonable salary, and also have a pension plan and profit sharing plan that my accountant set up, and I take various expenses that my accountant says I can. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:46 PM Author: Historical American 180 ten dollar raise (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534777) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:52 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: The appellate defense bar lobbied hard for a $40 increase and the Legislature gave us $10. Since 2016, it's gone up $25, from 105/115 to 130/140. Totally pathetic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534798) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:31 PM Author: bloody benchod bastard are you the same guy who's done these questions as before (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534529) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:32 PM Author: Gay Grandpa Don't ruin it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534534) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:32 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534535) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:36 PM Author: Jewish Male Menstruation in 17th Century (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534551) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:05 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) crimlaw appeals seems very interesting as the cases seem to involve much more scholarship than crimlaw trial shit which seems mostly about herding retarded witnesses, cops, etc. what % of your time do you think involves pure research, writing, arguments, etc. versus all the administrative bullshit that comes with criminals? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534648) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:24 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: There's way more scholarship than criminal trial shit. It's always funny when I review a record and see the DA, defense attorney and judge -- all who are retards who went to mcgeorge or USD or whatever -- discussing some scholarly sweet that came their away.
I'd say 80% of my time is scholarship -- reading records, thinking about arguments, writing, etc. Though I'm not often raising the most complex scholarly issues of first impression. A lot of the issues I raise are routine ones I can kind of C&P, or fact-based issues that don't involve complex legal concepts and are purely judgment calls based on well known law. So it's not like I'm dealing with intense scholarship all the time.
The other 20% of the time is various administrative bullshit. Dealing with the claims process to get paid (see above) is a huge hassle. Then there's keeping track of deadlines, saving filings, filling out routine forms like extension requests and oral argument requests, etc. -- I don't have a secretary so I've got to do all this myself. And then there's client commns which as I said above I really try to keep to a minimum because they're annoying.
And then there is a plenty of annoying "business" time from running my own firm that wastes time and you need to be careful about bc the consequences are bad if you fuck up -- annual registration w the state for the S corp, renewing the CA law corp registration, paying myself on the payroll, keeping track of the books, etc. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:51 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) sounds like a great gig. i'm jealous. i've always loved the scholarly side of crimlaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534793) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 6:42 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: It's a good gig. I wish I could make CSLG money doing this, but I've got it better than 95% of lawyers in terms of being my own boss, no time pressure, stable income, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535130) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:00 PM Author: luis navidad (luis) Any tips for becoming a more scholarly and slightly less retarded trial lawyer ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534833) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:29 PM Author: nigger kike Relish the sweet treats on westlaw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534938) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:34 PM Author: luis navidad (luis) Yeah, I need to set aside a few hours for scholarship more often. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534951) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 6:41 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Hmm, good Q. A big one is to conduct a few minutes of actual legal research and show how the cases apply to your facts.
I constantly see both sides just file these shitbriefs with 3 pages boilerplate C&P law, and then 2 sentence "argument" on the facts of their case that has nothing to do with any of the boilerplate C&P shit they just pasted in. The law section is totally useless, and your entire brief boils down to a 2 sentence conclusory argument. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 7:15 PM Author: luis navidad (luis) lmao, this does describe many Crim law written motions I’ve read (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535209) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 6:54 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Oh, another one is to actually do 10 minutes of homework on the jury instructions you want. Stuff like lesser included offenses and pinpoint instructions / bracketed optional language in the CALCRIMs. Most defbros just take the notes at the bottom of the CALCRIMs at face value, and there's often more depth than the notes provide. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535160) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 7:12 PM Author: luis navidad (luis) Good reminder ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535197) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:26 PM Author: nude mediator Ever come across the work of luis? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534726) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:32 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I'm looking forward to that day. I've had several cases from his county. I think he's just starting to get into the higher level cases, and I mostly do the higher level cases so maybe in the future I'll get one of his. He's also in a small county so there are relatively few appeals from that county so the odds aren't great. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534743) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:36 PM Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, On average out of 1,000 criminal appeals, how many new trials? outright reversals with dismissal? |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:50 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: By outright reversal with dismissal, I assume you mean EVERY count in the case. I've been doing this for 10+ years, and it's literally NEVER happened to me. I've got counts thrown out here and there that either make no or minimal impact on the sentence.
New trials, if we're talking about on every count in the case or on the most significant counts in the case, I think it's happened to me 2-3 times in 10+ years. Again, I get new trials here and there on insignificant counts -- that the prosecution probably won't even bother retrying.
I win resentencings for my clients quite a bit. The sentencing laws are very technical and the judges are idiots and often botch sentencing by not dotting their i's and crossing their t's correctly, and those are good issues from an appellate perspective since they're purely legal issues.
Though, in most cases, the guys probably go back for resentencing and end up with the same sentence. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:21 PM Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, tyft (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534920) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:22 PM Author: Historical American (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534924) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:43 PM Author: Historical American Have you ever gotten someone off who was clearly extremely guilty but you found a loophole or a technicality that invalidated the conviction like in the movies?
Ever gotten someone off due to a jury violation? |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:47 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) 99.9999999% people being tried and convicted are factually guilty. if OP has won a single appeal the answer to #1 is certainly yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534782) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:47 PM Author: VoteRepublican (A true Chad!! where's your gf/wifew?) does he get rated on his ability to win or it dont matter since hes public contractor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534784) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:50 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) in my jx they certainly consider competency with contract lawyers a great deal, which doesn't necessarily boil down to wins and losses though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534791) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:56 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: The panel administrators don't look at W's and L's. the best attorneys would all be batting .001 or so if that were the case.
They care more about scholarship than W's and L's. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:54 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I've never got anyone off on a technicality, but I've won retrials in a few cases on technicalities. People don't just walk free in 99.9999% of the cases. The remedy is almost always a retrial. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534806) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:56 PM Author: Historical American So you blow up the original conviction, then go to retrial, and you've won on retrial due to some technicality, and let a murderer back on the streets? And did you pop champagne to celebrate when they let Darnell walk out that door? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534820) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:58 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) this is such a midwit conception of the way criminal justice works. i can't believe people come to a lawyer bort and spout shit like this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534828) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:01 PM Author: Historical American Let me cook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534838) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:00 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: You seem to have an agenda, but I'll answer you diplomatically. I wouldn't be handling any retrial. It would go back to the public defender. In the vast majority of retrials following reversal on appeal, the DA is going to win again.
You're watching too much TV/movies. Murderous Darnells aren't going free on technicalities. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:03 PM Author: Historical American So let me get this straight, you don't even really deal in technicalities. You find errors in the material facts and evidence and/or argue your scholarly philosophical stuff before the judge. If you're persuasive Darnell gets a retrial and usually the DA slams it shut on him, but in some instances the defense is successful upon retrial. I think what you're saying is that anyone you would get retrial for who actually came back and won is materially innocent on the merits. Is that correct? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534845) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:13 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Every word of your post is loaded and I have no idea what you're even asking. Can you please rephase your questions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534885) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:16 PM Author: Historical American Ok you said that when you "win" at what you do it triggers a retrial most of the time. Is that a fair statement? If so, on what merits or basis do you typically get a guy a chance to go to trial again? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534899) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:17 PM Author: nigger kike He said even when he wins retrials aren’t common at all (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534906) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:20 PM Author: Historical American He said winning at retrial isn't common too. So only a tiny percentage of doods are getting off. Original question was any of these doods who were released upon winning retrial we're they innocent or guilty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534917) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:25 PM Author: nigger kike He’s not doing the retrial and isn’t involved in any way. I doubt he’s going to follow all the details when it goes back to the trial court and he’s no longer being paid to do any work on it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534929) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:27 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Entirely correct. I'd just have to remember to look up the case years later. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534936) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:33 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) you've got an extremely black and white understanding of criminal law which belies a near-complete ignorance of it. if you want to learn more you should be curious instead of aggressive.
most criminal appeals are about legal errors, for example whether evidence should have been suppressed. if OP wins on that, that doesn't necessarily mean the whole case goes back for retrial. it could mean that some minor counts that the evidence was absolutely necessary for do, which the prosbro probably won't bother prosecuting since it'd be pointless if the suppressed evidence was essential. or there might be enough evidence to sustain the verdict even if it was suppressed, so OP might "win" the appeal, but it has no material impact on his client. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:37 PM Author: luis navidad (luis) *wins appeal on possession of meth pipe charge when client is facing life without possibility of parole for killing his family* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534960) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:40 PM Author: Historical American (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534968) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:44 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) the scholarship of evidence law is sweetened even further as our corpus on meth pipe possession is further developed! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534976) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:47 PM Author: luis navidad (luis) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534980) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 6:47 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535143) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 6:47 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Yep. This exact kind of shit is my typical victory. I've had a number of LWOP / triple-digit sentence cases where I've got some minor concurrent count thrown out or PC 654'd. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535142) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 6:53 PM Author: Historical American The 45,000 families who pay 90% of the state income tax would like to personally thank you for your time and effort (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535159) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 6:56 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I'm sure they would rather have me get those kind of useless victories than to put actual murderers back on the streets. Though, this is CA, and the 1%ers are mostly liberal elites who wouldn't care if actual murders are back on the streets. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535164) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 6:58 PM Author: Historical American Humiliation is the end goal for them (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535166) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 7:16 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) OP is protecting people's rights and contributing to the development of the law. without people protecting these rights in court the laws have no force.
your problem is that you think if it's not dispositive or involving grand issues that it's meaningless. but the fact is that 99.9% of lawyers are not going to be clarence darrow, just like 99.9% of cops aren't going to bust a serial killer and 99.9% of soldiers are going to shoot hitler. most people are cogs in a larger system that ultimately have very few major individual impacts. but to eliminate all those people means eliminating the system entirely. most PDs will never rep some sympathetic, factually innocent person. most will only ever clients that are vile and 100% factually guilty. but what would things be like if we eliminated public defenders entirely? |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 8:31 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: All correct. I'm a small part of making the system work.
The reason my colleagues and I -- who for the most part are very seasoned, quality appellate lawyers -- lose 99.9% of our cases is because the trial judges and the prosecutors know that the state has a robust appellate process where the defendant is going to be represented by a good lawyer who will catch mistakes and make them look bad if they play blatantly unfairly.
Trial judges often err in favor of the defendants on close evidentiary and procedural issues because they don't want to create an appellate issue and risk a retrial.
My job seems totally pointless on a day to day basis and it's frustrating to lose 99.9% of the time, but if I step back, I realize I'm part of making the system a little bit better. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 8:45 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535457) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 8:33 PM Author: Historical American You have me wrong. I, for one, respect my scholarly betters. I don't know why you take all my poasts like they're chiseled in stone. I come here to troll and goof around. I have nothing against this guy. Of all the useless public waste in California this doesn't scratch the surface. Why do you police my errant thoughts? Just let me be gay and retarded. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535420) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 8:53 PM Author: grand wizard of yakubian tricknology (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535475) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:19 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I've also said that in 10+ yrs, I've won a client a retrial on all or the most significant counts in like 2-3 cases TOTAL. It's really rare.
I don't want to give specifics because reversals of convictions are rare enough that some doobs could find it on westlaw if I say too much. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:21 PM Author: Historical American Gotcha. So at most in 10 years you maybe got 2-3 people off ever? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534921) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:26 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I don't even know if they got off. I don't know what happens when they go back for retrials unless I remember to look up the cases years later. Nobody tells me what happens unless they happen to appeal again and it gets reassigned to me again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534934) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:27 PM Author: Historical American It's like footsteps in the dark (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534935) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:00 PM Author: Historical American Was Rubin "The Hurricane" Carter guilty of the triple homicide and simply a victim of racist cops planting evidence or did some shitlib NJ judge simply toss the case to get famous and win liberal brownie points?
I go back and forth on this one. Could go either way. What's suspicious though besides the fact that Carter beat the shit out of one of his female lawyers is that the judge offered no detailed explanation of why the case was tossed. He just said a racism was performed, this is bunk. No retrial either they just let him out. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:16 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I saw the movie as a teenager and don't remember the details. My basic memory/instinct is that he did the murder, but I have no idea if I'm right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534903) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:17 PM Author: Historical American Same. I've looked into it many times. There are a lot of clues though that he was guilty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534905) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:24 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Times were different then. Cops don't need to cheat nowadays as much as they did back then. There's so much forensic evidence at the scene of the crime, DNA and fingerprints. Plus there are cell phone towers and surveillance cameras everywhere.
It's VERY hard to get away with murder nowadays, and the cops don't need to coerce witnesses and beat confessions out of people. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:29 PM Author: Historical American (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534940) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:41 PM Author: \'\'\"\'\'\'\"\'\'\'\"\' Why do you do crim law defense instead of joining DA's or US attorney to do appellate stuff for prosecutors? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49534972) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 6:50 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I've thought about that kind of stuff. I'd have to get a real job, have a boss, have someone review my work, potentially come to the office, deal with DEI shitlib bullshit all day, and potentially make less money.
The other side of what I do is the State AG's office. It seems incredibly easy and boring to do that side. You win 99% of the time. All you have to do is say for every issue: 1) the issue is forfeited because defendant didn't object or didn't properly object, 2) the judge didn't act outside the bounds of his vast discretion, and 3) any error isn't prejudicial because there was overwhelming evidence. AI could write their briefs in 10 minutes. It would be a chill easy job, but you still have a boss, politics, etc. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 7:03 PM Author: luis navidad (luis) Not sure about the AG but DAs offices tend to be pretty conservative/strict about wanting their employees in the office all the time from what I hear. I have a lot more flexibility to work when and how I want compared to most prosecutors (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535176) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 9:30 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: That sucks. I hope the AGs have more independence. There's no reason they need to be in the office.
How many days a week are you actually in court / meeting with clients? |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 7:53 PM Author: Candy Ride I read almost every one of my state's appellate decisions and I am certain I have never seen successful post conviction relief and I don't know if I have ever seen a conviction reversed for an evidentiary error. I have seen reversals for incorrect sentencing, but that is about it. What do you have to say on this topic? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535306) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 8:40 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: This is pretty accurate. As I mentioned above, the vast majority of my victories are winning a resentencing for my client -- the judges constantly fuck up sentencing, and sentencing is very technical and creates easy appellate issues.
I've literally had no success on evidentiary errors. I rarely raise them. Almost any evidentiary error is going to be harmless. Unless you're talking about a confession (I wouldn't call a Miranda error an evidentiary error), almost any one piece of evidence is going to be relatively harmless.
Jury instruction errors are known to be the trial errors that have the best chance of success. In most cases, an erroneous jury instruction is a fairly clean legal issue. And then there's prejudice, which is always difficult -- but in some cases, prejudice may be easy to show or may be presumed.
There are just so many obstacles to winning on appeal, between forfeiture, error and prejudice. It's really a tough standard. |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 9:31 PM Author: Christmas Diaper Alita doing anything phun for christmas (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535661) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 9:33 PM Author: 3I/Atlas If it's so hard to get released on appeal, what explains the multi-offense criminals on the streets punching women, setting people on fire, etc., that everybody is tweeting about? Is some other part of the system leaky, or are these all massive exceptions to the rule, or not actually a thing? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535674) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 9:36 PM Author: Gay Grandpa Light sentences obviously,, no? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535689) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 9:50 PM Author: Historical American Lots of second chances. I believe one of the worst ones was a Jerry Brown special. It was a whole black men need a second chance thing and then the guy goes and murders his girlfriend or something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2id.#49535741) |
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Date: December 23rd, 2025 9:49 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: A few things going on.
Some of it is media hype / exaggeration. You just hear the worst stories.
Most of this is happening in the 2-3 most shitlib counties in the state. SF and LA had Soros DAs (Gascon). CA has 50-60 counties, and many are red/purple, and this stuff isn't happening in most places.
And even in shitlib places, they'll still go hard on the most serious crimes -- chomos and brutal murders.
What you're hearing about is light sentences for low-ish level felonies, often through plea deals because the government doesn't want to be bothered to take every such crime you mention to trial.
There are so many such cases you mention and the DA will just plea them out and the guy will be back on the street in no time, and these relatively low level felons just go in and out of the system. It's only when they murder someone that they'll get put away for a long time. |