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Question about European feudalism.

Was this system as singularly shitty as it sounds, or have m...
scarlet histrionic rehab
  06/14/13
just walk outside bro
orchid locale really tough guy
  05/29/25
(and yes, OP's country has a third world gini coefficient)
orchid locale really tough guy
  05/29/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  06/03/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  06/08/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  07/01/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  07/03/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  07/06/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  07/08/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  07/13/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  07/14/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  07/16/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  07/20/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
  07/29/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
  08/04/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
  11/11/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  11/11/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
  11/16/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
  11/17/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  11/18/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  11/23/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  11/24/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
  11/26/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  11/26/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
  11/27/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  11/28/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  12/02/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  12/04/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
  12/07/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  12/08/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
  12/09/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
  12/10/25
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
  04/23/26
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orchid locale really tough guy
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orchid locale really tough guy
  05/13/26
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orchid locale really tough guy
  05/19/26
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nyuug
  05/21/26
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nyuug
  05/25/26
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nyuug
  05/26/26
Have most large-scale agricultural civilizations over the la...
chest-beating factory reset button area
  05/29/25
Yes, it was terrible, it was the first form of mass-egalitar...
multi-colored jap
  05/29/25
(ignores every other form of mass-agriculture that preceded ...
chest-beating factory reset button area
  05/29/25
They were better because you had different tribal clans owni...
multi-colored jap
  05/29/25
read the history of the early hydrological civilizations of ...
chest-beating factory reset button area
  05/29/25
Better to be a serf under a Warrior Clique (blessed by the P...
Ruddy step-uncle's house jewess
  07/01/25
...
out-of-control cumskin
  07/13/25
...
Startling Vigorous Institution Selfie
  07/13/25
what part of: the peasants are revolting, don't u get?
arousing mauve partner internal respiration
  05/29/25
cq
Jade property pistol
  05/29/25
I'd say that like slavery it probably depends on a lot on ju...
lemon national
  06/03/25
teen black death survivors were the original Boomers
Ruddy step-uncle's house jewess
  07/02/25
...
Nighttime haunting police squad dingle berry
  12/18/25
i wish i could have sworn fealty to an employer like a serf ...
honey-headed demanding resort messiness
  06/08/25
Serfs had tons of time off & feast days. It wasn't as ba...
dun aphrodisiac private investor locus
  07/01/25
really depended on the country, the region, and the lord re...
appetizing swollen space nibblets
  07/16/25
It worked out really well for most folks. Asia had similar s...
Ultramarine Offensive Cuck Ape
  11/11/25
it was a nanny state.
Aquamarine Parlour Cuckoldry
  11/24/25
Most societies were nomadic. Home sapiens only became a sett...
Ultramarine Offensive Cuck Ape
  12/08/25
actual feudalism was probably fine and shitty in parts four...
appetizing swollen space nibblets
  12/18/25
13th century English peasant: 1620 chill working hours per y...
Vermilion soul-stirring main people set
  04/23/26
"Before capitalism, most people did not work very long ...
Vermilion soul-stirring main people set
  04/23/26


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2013 10:27 AM
Author: scarlet histrionic rehab

Was this system as singularly shitty as it sounds, or have most societies historically been based on similar systems?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#23393887)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 4:29 AM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy

just walk outside bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48969812)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 4:30 AM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy

(and yes, OP's country has a third world gini coefficient)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48969813)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:24 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48985020)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 8th, 2025 5:55 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48997575)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 9:14 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49064860)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 3rd, 2025 8:14 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49070377)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 6th, 2025 8:32 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49077411)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 8th, 2025 10:20 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49084518)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49098591)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 14th, 2025 5:12 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49101058)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 16th, 2025 3:43 AM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49105012)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 20th, 2025 8:00 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49117359)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 24th, 2025 5:37 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49128622)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 29th, 2025 11:50 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49141968)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 30th, 2025 6:59 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49143857)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 4th, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49156580)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 10th, 2025 8:35 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49172980)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:33 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49421817)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:48 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49421862)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:57 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49421881)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 11:28 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49422254)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 12th, 2025 7:15 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49424474)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 12th, 2025 9:29 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49425035)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 13th, 2025 1:21 AM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49425543)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 13th, 2025 4:52 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49427654)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 16th, 2025 8:27 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49436681)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 16th, 2025 9:03 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49436785)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 17th, 2025 6:11 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49439167)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 18th, 2025 7:01 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49441985)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 23rd, 2025 8:51 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49454945)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 12:36 AM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49455274)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 6:55 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49457596)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 9:29 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49458108)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 12:15 AM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49461550)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 4:27 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49463581)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 10:41 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49464738)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 27th, 2025 5:48 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49466319)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 28th, 2025 12:55 AM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49467160)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 2nd, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49478445)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 4th, 2025 5:54 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49484240)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 4th, 2025 9:25 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49484832)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 7th, 2025 7:20 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49492316)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 8th, 2025 12:55 AM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49493000)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 8th, 2025 8:23 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49495268)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2025 3:57 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49497250)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2025 9:55 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49500993)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 16th, 2025 9:07 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49515504)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:04 AM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49518561)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2025 8:59 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49529071)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2025 8:47 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49532458)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 24th, 2025 12:00 AM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49536032)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2025 6:54 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49545634)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2025 7:05 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49545665)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2025 9:19 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49548639)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2026 8:56 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49562700)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 6th, 2026 7:39 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49567730)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2026 6:44 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49584404)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 14th, 2026 6:47 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49589879)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2026 7:47 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49604959)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:08 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49838395)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:38 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49838453)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2026 7:20 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49884309)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 19th, 2026 8:56 PM
Author: orchid locale really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49890852)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 21st, 2026 5:25 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49893306)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2026 6:16 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49900593)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2026 8:51 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49903004)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:47 AM
Author: chest-beating factory reset button area

Have most large-scale agricultural civilizations over the last 5k years relegated the vast majority of their agricultural labor force /population to a state of semi-slavery enforced by an exploitative elite with a monopoly on violence?

yes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48969854)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:51 AM
Author: multi-colored jap

Yes, it was terrible, it was the first form of mass-egalitarianism. All the old Tribal Clans were abolished & people were turned into landless serfs, the only exceptions were the Elite Warlord Clans that got to rule as Lords/Kings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48969860)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:55 AM
Author: chest-beating factory reset button area

(ignores every other form of mass-agriculture that preceded it)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48969863)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 7:47 AM
Author: multi-colored jap

They were better because you had different tribal clans owning different regions, serfdom was a form of quasi-slavery, only the Kings/Lords had property rights.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48969954)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 1:37 PM
Author: chest-beating factory reset button area

read the history of the early hydrological civilizations of egypt, mesopotamia, the indus and the yellow river valleys

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48971066)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 11:58 PM
Author: Ruddy step-uncle's house jewess

Better to be a serf under a Warrior Clique (blessed by the Priestly Clique) than a humiliated cog of the Merchant Clique imho

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49065184)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 6:53 PM
Author: out-of-control cumskin



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49098592)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 7:03 PM
Author: Startling Vigorous Institution Selfie



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49098608)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 8:52 AM
Author: arousing mauve partner internal respiration

what part of: the peasants are revolting, don't u get?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48970037)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 8:54 AM
Author: Jade property pistol

cq

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48970041)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:32 PM
Author: lemon national

I'd say that like slavery it probably depends on a lot on just where you are, so not singularly shitty just situation dependent

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48985033)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2025 12:06 AM
Author: Ruddy step-uncle's house jewess

teen black death survivors were the original Boomers

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49065206)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 4:10 AM
Author: Nighttime haunting police squad dingle berry



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49518664)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 8th, 2025 6:07 PM
Author: honey-headed demanding resort messiness

i wish i could have sworn fealty to an employer like a serf to a feudal lord when i was younger. would have saved me a lot of pain cycling through shitty short-term jobs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#48997602)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 10:15 PM
Author: dun aphrodisiac private investor locus

Serfs had tons of time off & feast days. It wasn't as bad as most people think. They didn't have running water or electricity, but neither did the rulers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49065026)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 16th, 2025 4:01 AM
Author: appetizing swollen space nibblets

really depended on the country, the region, and the lord

removing technology from the equation it could range from far more harmonious than what we have today to utterly hellish. the general trend towards centralization of power from the early middle ages and on and the rise of the professional state theoretically ensures a general better standard of living for a subject on average, or at the very least a set "floor" for QoL, but ends up removing a lot to do with the nuances of power relations and enduring senses of community in the process

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49105022)



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Date: November 11th, 2025 8:49 PM
Author: Ultramarine Offensive Cuck Ape

It worked out really well for most folks. Asia had similar systems in place for thousands of years and they were stable societies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49421865)



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Date: November 24th, 2025 10:06 PM
Author: Aquamarine Parlour Cuckoldry

it was a nanny state.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49458174)



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Date: December 8th, 2025 8:26 PM
Author: Ultramarine Offensive Cuck Ape

Most societies were nomadic. Home sapiens only became a settled species during the most recent 5% of our time on earth. There's absolutely nothing normal (or even good) about anything we do today, unless your goal is simply to put more people on the earth's surface

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49495273)



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Date: December 18th, 2025 1:07 AM
Author: appetizing swollen space nibblets

actual feudalism was probably fine and shitty in parts

foursquare feudalism otoh is a lot of fun and harmless if it's not infested with faggots

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49518563)



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Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:17 PM
Author: Vermilion soul-stirring main people set

13th century English peasant: 1620 chill working hours per year with your bros, downtime all winter, zero "thank" emails

you: hiting 1620 billables in July while on your "working vacation" at the beach with your kids

https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49838409)



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Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:17 PM
Author: Vermilion soul-stirring main people set

"Before capitalism, most people did not work very long hours at all. The tempo of life was slow, even leisurely; the pace of work relaxed. Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure. When capitalism raised their incomes, it also took away their time."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2id.#49838410)