Experts say Yale is not in the same class as HPSM
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: August 21st, 2009 11:33 PM
Subject: US News 2010 Peer Assessment Scores
How professional educational administrators at the college level have ranked the relative quality of the nation's top schools. These are the US News 2010 Peer Assessment (PA) scores:
4.9 = Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Stanford
4.8 = Yale
4.7 = Berkeley
4.6 = Caltech, Columbia, Chicago
4.5 = UPenn, Hopkins, Cornell
4.4 = Brown, Duke, Michigan
4.3 = Dartmouth, Northwestern, UVA
4.2 = Carnegie Mellon, UCLA
4.1 = UNC, WashU, Wisconsin
4.0 = Georgetown, Emory, Rice, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, UIUC
3.9 = USC
3.8 = Notre Dame
Date: August 21st, 2009 11:48 PM
Subject: but I bet the Y was at least tied for number 1 in selectivity,
which is the ranking of the real experts - i.e. the elite HS graduates who have their pick of the litter.
Actually, I didnt see the hard copy, so can you post the top 20 sorted by selectivity, including admit rates and sat ranges?
I am assuming Yale is 1 or 2 because thats whats its been for the last several years, while Princeton has generally lagged Y and H. Given the widening gap in admissions rates between H and Y on the one hand (approx 7.5% for class of 13), and P on the other (10.5%), P's slightly lower SAT scores and dramatically lower yield, it is clear that students understand the true rank order of the schools, notwithstanding the shameless P trolling by USNWR.
Date: August 22nd, 2009 6:00 PM
Subject: don't get all defensive
Interesting how you seem to avoid the OP's main point.
Why do the nation's college administrators rank Yale below HPSM? I hope you're not saying that high school students have more knowledge of higher education than those people actually running the colleges. There's a slight education and experience gap between the two --- do ya think?
"Shameless P trolling by USNWR" --- Isn't the owner of USNWR a Harvard grad? If anything, USNWR's ranking of Yale at #3 is generous. No other publication, to my knowledge, puts Yale higher than the 3 spot (unlike P & H which can each can easily point to other publications placing them at one or two).
Also, how do you explain Yale's own students placing Yale at a lower academic grade than P,S&M? Shouldn't they know more than everyone?
Finally, two points: 1)Princeton's SAT scores are well ahead of Yale's when you remove student athletes from the equation (Princeton has a smaller class size but yet carries the same number of athletes and programs as Yale); 2) how can you discuss yield when Yale still clings to yield boosting measures like Early Decision (something H & P have had the intestinal fortitude to give up).
Date: August 23rd, 2009 6:16 PM
Subject: LOL. You are too funny
Your defense of Yale has gone from a US News conspiracy to now the following:
High schoolers are smarter than college Deans.
High schoolers are in a better position to evaluate higher ed than college Deans.
Are you on drugs??
How do you explain that Yale's students rank Princeton higher than Yale academically? Are they less knowledgeable than high schoolers as well?
How do you explain that Yale's college guide book gives the edge to Princeton for undergraduate study?
How do you explain that college students generally rank Princeton higher than Yale? Are they all less knowledgeable than high schoolers?
Are you aware of ONE national publication in this country (in the past 5 years) that ranks Yale ahead of Princeton academically? I can quote MANY national experts who state clearly Princeton is superior. I can think of at least ten.
PS. USNews (2010) puts the schools at the same SAT levels. When you take out the student athletes, Princeton's SAT scores are much higher than those of Yale for reasons stated above (student athlete scores are more easily diluted in Yale's larger student body).
If you are still confused by all this (and I sense you are), I suggest you read "Untangling the Ivy League" (2008 edition). It explains clearly why Princeton is one notch ahead of Yale academically. The book was designed for people with your level of confusion so it should be an easy read.
PS(2) Last time I checked, in the annual Dream School rankings, Princeton polled well ahead of Yale with both high schoolers and adults.
Date: August 28th, 2009 10:07 AM
Author: Nathan Hale
"When you take out the student athletes, Princeton's SAT scores are much higher than those of Yale for reasons stated above (student athlete scores are more easily diluted in Yale's larger student body)."
You cannot have your cake and it too. Athletes are part of the student body, so they count. If you want to make selective comparisons, why not just take out URMs, legacies, piano players, and kids of billionaires while you are at it?
While we are on this issue, the fact remains, Yale's overall SAT and admission stats are superior to Princeton's, and there is no issue there. You have zero proof to show the average non-athlete at P has a higher SAT than at Y. Do you know what the average athlete & non-athlete at both schools scores? Let's see some real evidence....but we know for the entire class, Y>>P, clearly. Success in grad school admissions and scholarship competitions backs this assertion up.
Date: August 29th, 2009 6:26 PM
Princeton still hasn't produced a president in the last couple years. And Princeton has very few professional grad school, which makes it difficult to really enjoy it. For undergraduate, it is superb, but in pop culture it has very little weight in news because it doesnt have a med school. This is rediculous now that I think about it.
Date: August 24th, 2009 12:58 PM
Subject: Youre consistently wrong
First, no lesser authority than the times of london consistently ranks Y well ahead of P (number 2 globally vs number 12). If you check the Y and P websites you will see that for the class of 12, Yales scores are 15 points higher on a 2400 scale (and are higher on both the low and high end).
Of course the elite students who gain admission to both schools (and their parents)are better judges than middle aged deans and admissions officers as to which school is better for them, and approximately 2 out of 3 pick Y, perhaps more, judging from the widening gap in admit rates, which prompted hundreds of self-loathing comments from P students in their student publication. Who is a better judge of what car is best suited for a prospective purchaser - the prospective consumer, or the marketing managers of competitive companies. The answer is obvious.
Finally, you cite no reference at all - because you can not- that Y students believe P is a better place. That is flat out wrong
Date: August 31st, 2009 5:15 PM
My view on Princeton is that its student body is great. But the fresh prince of belair really took a toll on the school. Unless you know people who go there, you really don't know how amazing the school really is. Its transfer policy really makes it difficult for people to want to really fall in love with it after high school is over. It needs to be in the news more. And it needs to kick Harvards and Yales Ass in more things then Mathematics Schizophrenia.