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NYU Tax LLM OCI
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Date: January 4th, 2010 4:08 PM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse Subject: What are the numbers for the 2009-10 OCI? I'm trying to figure out whether I should get an LLM in tax. T10, good grades, secondary journal, summered at V50 firm (no-offered). Does anyone know the actual numbers for OCI at NYU this year? Fall and Spring?
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Date: January 4th, 2010 4:10 PM Author: blue outnumbered juggernaut stead Only do this if you plan on practicing specifically in Tax the rest of your career. Firms will hire you for one specific purpose. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721122) |
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Date: January 4th, 2010 5:10 PM Author: Spectacular site "Firms will hire you . . ."
yfwgi |
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Date: January 4th, 2010 4:11 PM Author: lemon thriller property stock car Dunno, but I know a guy at GULC getting a tax LLM (I know not exactly comparable) and it was a bloodbath. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721133) |
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Date: January 14th, 2010 12:44 AM Author: salmon glittery clown Subject: Reply to original poster I am going to jump in here.
I don't want to give out too much information. However, I will tell you the following about myself:
-Top 3% from a very good Tier 1 School (not T14, but not far from it, either) -numerous honors/awards -No-offered by a Midlaw firm in a regional city in the bloodbath summer of 2008 (~60% offer rate, I was in the 40% no-offered).
I was given a scholarship to NYU Tax LLM. Not full ride, but a decent chunk of change. I am currently in my second semester. The following are my observations thus far:
1) I applied all over during Fall semester. Most of my classmates kept saying, "I am just going to wait until Spring." I jumped the gun, and got about a dozen rejection letters per week. This is due to the economy, mostly.
2) The TIP (Tax Interview Program == OCI for Tax LLMs) is at the end of February. Everyone at the school has been oddly silent about what firms will be interviewing at TIP. This leads me to believe it will be a bloodbath.
3) These classes are NOT easy. As stated, I graduated very highly in my law school class from a good school (top 2% class rank), and so far I have received nothing but B+'s from last semester (a few of my grades are still incoming, though). I NEVER received anything beneath an A- in my J.D. The exams here are largely "bottom line"-type exams, NOTHING like J.D. essay exams. If you don't get the exact right numerical answer, the profs don't care that you did 95% of the work correctly. You get a zero.
I took corporate tax during my J.D., and I took it again here. I did better in J.D. version. The Corporate tax here had literally, and I am not exaggerating, 300% of the content that my J.D. corp. tax had. We had, in many cases, 200+ pages of reading per week, ALL of which was tested on.
The guy who typed all in CAPS is either innately good at tax law, or is lying about the classes being easy.
4) Depression is really common here. I have suffered from it(for the first time in my life), and so have my acquantences here. I don't know how to describe it -- but basically when you combine: (1) Reading Revenue Regs All day EVERY day + (2) shunned by the J.D.'s + (3) Most Tax LL.M.'s are here temporarily and not interested in socializing + (4) poor employment prospects and everyone worrying about it every day, you end up in a sad situation.
5) Employment prospects are pitiful. Even the "fallback" Big-4 firms hired a grand total of ONE PERSON last semester. You read that correctly. ONE PERSON. Only one firm interviewed (PWC as I recall), and they hired ONE PERSON.
Sadly, that is the only person I have heard of who got a private sector job last semester. As far as I know, the IRS dinged EVERYONE this year (including me and all my acquaintances).
I know of exactly one tax court clerk (but there may be more I don't know).
Bottom line is that for the people who aren't deferred, EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, is unemployed and starting to panic.
My guess is that TIP may net three or four jobs, max.
I am in a unique situation because I have biglaw written all over my resume, but I only have Midlaw experience with a no-offer. I was told by Deloitte & Douche that my resume "indicated that I would only stick around until a large firm gave me an offer." So I am fucked out of biglaw, and fucked out of big4.
I will find something. But at this point, I would truly be happy making 50k working for a sole practitioner estate planner or something.
If there's one thing NYU has taught me (and I am serious here), it's that I really don't want to be around these consummate douche bags day-in and day-out. I plan to enjoy life once I finish this degree. If it means living a middle class life in a suburb of a "regional" legal market, then so be it.
Bottom line, however, is that I still think (especially considering my scholarship) that I was better at NYU this year as compared to sitting on my ass unemployed.
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Date: January 14th, 2010 1:44 AM Author: Comical Nighttime Wrinkle What was your major? Delloite only wants accounting majors it seems... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13804396) |
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Date: January 14th, 2010 10:32 AM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse International Relations, I have zero accounting experience (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13805553) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2011 5:29 PM Author: Orange Toaster should've gotten a MACC (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#17671554) |
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Date: January 14th, 2010 10:37 AM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse Awesome response, thank you for posting.
I have no idea if I got a scholarship from NYU (although I assume if I didn't get one right away, I won't get one period).
Law school is a fucking depressing place, and an LLM program seems even worse. I really don't want to go. But if I'm going to finish my JD unemployed, then... fuck. So I'm kind of paralyzed as to what to do. NYU costs 50K, etc etc, but I think I really complain about the cost because I don't want to go. I guess your post taught me that my premonition was correct, that an LLM will be an even more depressing experience than the JD.
On the other hand, you seem pretty confident on finding a job in a regional market which will allow you to maintain a middle class living. Do you think you'll be able to get one of those in this economy? |
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Date: January 14th, 2010 1:32 PM Author: Navy sadistic rehab elastic band "The exams here are largely "bottom line"-type exams, NOTHING like J.D. essay exams. If you don't get the exact right numerical answer, the profs don't care that you did 95% of the work correctly. You get a zero."
I've taken a couple tax llm classes (as a JD) and have not found this to be the case. While tax (like any other statutory legal area) can certainly be bottom line with respect to applicability of rules, I haven't encountered professors who insist that students perform arithmetic flawlessly. I have to wonder whether it is your experience or mine that is anomalous.
The rest of your post sounds right, though. Employment prospects are grim for full time LLM students. |
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Date: January 15th, 2010 8:05 AM Author: Silver diverse selfie I feel bad for you. NYU is clearly the only llm worth getting, but tax practice at law firms has collapsed and been on a serious decline for years (lots of old partners, few associates, no future for younger partners who are not paid well at all unless they can bring in business (hard to do that as a tax guy unless you are selling shelters))
Good luck. |
Date: January 4th, 2010 4:13 PM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse Right it'll limit my options to either tax or tax related fields (like estate planning), which is fine because I enjoy estate planning work. However, I don't love estate planning so much that I'm willing to drop 50K on it at NYU and then turn out unemployed. However, getting details on employment at NYU is like pulling teeth! They simply won't tell me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721142) |
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Date: January 4th, 2010 4:14 PM Author: alcoholic casino useless brakes gee, i wonder why they won't reveal employment stats... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721152) |
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Date: January 4th, 2010 4:17 PM Author: lemon thriller property stock car Because they are great and they don't want to seem immodest? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721164) |
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Date: January 4th, 2010 4:18 PM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse Must be that there are so many jobs, and it's so obvious that everyone in NYU's Tax LLM program gets a job, that they don't even need to reveal the numbers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721175) |
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Date: January 4th, 2010 4:30 PM Author: alcoholic casino useless brakes bingo!
only do tax llm if it's part-time and your current employer is paying or helping you pay for it. |
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Date: January 4th, 2010 4:19 PM Author: smoky aphrodisiac cruise ship trump supporter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721176) |
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Date: January 4th, 2010 4:58 PM Author: cracking carnelian corn cake shrine Don't do it!!!!!!!1111
LLM programs have terrible employment stats. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of offers at NYU LLM was in the single digits.
Gun for a federal clerkship instead. That way, you keep the door open for lateralling into BIGLAW, and you get fed exp so you're a better candidate for government work. |
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Date: January 4th, 2010 5:45 PM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse ITE getting a fed clerkship as a law student is damn near impossible. I go to a T10, in years past, half of all applicants would land a fed clerkship. This year (granted the year isn't over and some judges could make a late hire) we have less than 10%. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13721726) |
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Date: January 4th, 2010 7:40 PM Author: cracking carnelian corn cake shrine Then get a state court clerkship. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13722445) |
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Date: January 6th, 2010 11:45 PM Author: Demanding spot I would highly recommend that you don't do this. I graduated last year FROM NYU TAX and I was in the same position as you. I had decent JD grade from top 10 school and got dinged from summer firm.
It was the worst experience of my life and I regret it to this day. I am currently still unemployed.
Here are the reasons: 1) You will ace your classes but just look at the people you compete against. From what I've noticed big chunk of full time NYU Tax LL.Ms are from 2nd and 3rd tier law schools and have never set a foot in biglaw (i.e. didn't even get a single callback). Some of them study really hard (I mean really hard) but are NOT lawyers. They are accountants with JDs from shitty schools that spew lawyerish and finance-wanna-be jargons just to sound smart. They WILL ABSOLUTELY DRIVE YOU NUTS. AND YOU WILL FEEL DEPRESSED WHILE PARTIALLY AND RELUCTANTLY ACCEPTING THEM AS YOUR PEERS.
2) Our year OCI was a joke and NYU Tax OCI will be a joke for following several years. They advertised Davis Polk, Simpson, and Skadden as prospective employers of the program. Wow! First of all, all three firms require top JD grade. So your top 10 JD will get you the interview. However, they also look at your ding. ITE, THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN YOU UNLESS YOUR DING IS FROM A FIRM LIKE MORGAN LEWIS THAT GAVE 100% NO OFFER. THEY WILL DRILL YOU ON THIS.
3) Having said that V10 firms are not interested in hiring you even though you have top grades from T10 JD, you should gun for Jones Day, Ropes and Gray, Baker McKenzie, and other relatively easier firms. However, EVEN THIS IS TOUGH. THIS IS BECAUSE THE FUCKING RECRUITERS THAT COME TO INTERVIEW ARE GRADUATES FROM 2ND OR 3RD TIER LAW THEMSELVES. THEY WILL PLAY DOWN YOUR TOP 10 JD AND MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE THE REST OF NYU TAX PROGRAM STUDENTS ARE YOUR ACTUAL PEERS. <--IF YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO DO SHIT LAW AND WANT TO GAMBLE 60k, I WOULD SAY THAT THESE ARE THE FIRMS YOU HAVE THE BIGGEST CHANCE OF EMPLOYMENT WITH.
4) Finally, you have the rest of the crew: IRS, Big4, and boutiques. HAHAHA YOUR TOP 10 JD WILL BE YOUR DOWNFALL. A TYPICAL IRS AGENT IS A HOFSTRA GRAD WHO WON'T EVEN REVEAL TO YOU WHERE HE WENT TO SCHOOL. HE WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT HIRING CRITERIA: A) LITIGATION EXPERIENCE AT SHIT FIRMS AND B) YOUR FIT. AND OBVIOUSLY, BEING A TOP 10 JD STUDENT, YOU WILL NOT FIT IN WITH THE IRS OR ACCOUNTING CROWD.
5) The career services are not 100% honest and open about employment stats. THESE PEOPLE JUST WANT TO MILK YOU.
SORRY FOR USING CAPS BUT MY LIFE IS RUINED BECAUSE OF NYU TAX LLM. I HAVE GRADUATED IN MAY AND HAVE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN FINDING ANYTHING. I AM NOW DRINKING BY SELF WHILE AVOIDING PHONE CALLS FROM DEBT COLLECTORS AND MY BIGLAW DOUCHE FRIENDS WHO WANTS TO LAUGH AT MY SORRY ASS. I AM ALSO VERY MAD AT NYU TAX PROGRAM.
DO NOT GO INTO NYU TAX PROGRAM.
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Date: January 6th, 2010 11:59 PM Author: bearded provocative locus What is "acing" your classes? What was your end GPA? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741335) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:05 AM Author: Demanding spot let's just say near 4.0 (after self conversion**). I did slightly worse in 2nd semester because I got depressed.
** NYU does not calculate GPA. It merely gives you letter grades.**
I AM NOT FUCKING LYING. THE CLASSES ARE EASY. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:24 AM Author: bearded provocative locus Well you sound pretty well-adjusted -- I can't understand why you wouldn't get a job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741625) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:32 AM Author: Demanding spot IN THIS ECONOMY YOU ONLY GET ONE SHOT. THE 2L OCI. ONCE YOU MISS THAT YOU ARE FUCKED. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741695) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:00 AM Author: fantasy-prone lascivious space interesting (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741344) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:08 AM Author: Demanding spot READ THE FOLLOWING POST.
NYU TAX LLM IS ONLY FOR THE FOLLOWING PEOPLE:
1) 3RD TIER LAW STUDENTS WHO WANT TO PUT NYU ON THEIR RESUME TO GET A BOUTIQUE FIRM JOB. 2) 2ND TIER LAW STUDENTS WHO WANT TO PUT NYU ON THEIR RESUME TO GET A BIG4 JOB.
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Date: July 14th, 2010 12:29 AM Author: Odious Brindle State Nowag flame. you claim to be a variety of things on here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#15500881) |
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Date: January 6th, 2010 11:57 PM Author: Demanding spot Subject: CONTINUED..... SORRY BUT MY ANGER JUST DOES NOT GO AWAY!!
In hindsight I want to tell myself that I should have just taken a shitlaw job anywhere and try to lateral into mid-law.
I was always an optimistic guy and thought that getting a Tax LLM + strong JD credentials would lead to BigLaw.
Here is more on my one year experience in NYU
1) As a Tax LLM you will be a second class citizen that is seen as a cash cow for the school. The JD students will be very careful in asking you where you went to school. This is because.....AGAIN IN CAPPPPSSS..... THEY WANT TO AVOID TEH AWKWARDNESS OF HEARING "I WENT TO ST. JOHNS." THE WHOLE ELEVATOR BECOMES SILENT WHEN SOMEONE UTTERS SOMETHING LIKE HOFSTRA, ST. JOHNS, OR VILLANOVA.
2) NYU is a fucking expensive school to attend. It is a shithole. It will not get you laid. As a Tax LL.M your best shots are unprestigious "Newyorker Trolls" you meet on friday nights. By "NewYorker Trolls" I mean, TTT fuctards that work at shitty quasi-finance related jobs in Long Island who refer to tellselves as "NewYorkers" <--implying Wallstreet/Prestige/Ivy-League..etc...
3) The Tax LLM will teach you things that you can learn yourself.
4) SHOULD I KILLSELF??? I AM TOO TIRED AND DRUNK TO TYPE ANYMORE. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:10 AM Author: Motley public bath keepsake machete haha bravo bravo
go on, i'd like to hear moar |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:16 AM Author: Demanding spot Subject: PART III THE THING ABOUT TTT LAW STUDENTS THAT BUG THE SHIT OUT OF ME CAN BE CATEGORIZED AS FOLLOWS:
1) ALL JD ARE EQUAL BY THIS I MEAN THE FOLLOWING. THESE TTTS ACT LIKE WE ARE IN THE SAME BOAT JUST BECAUSE WE ARE IN THE SAME SHIT PROGRAM. THEY SAY THINGS LIKE "WE GO TO NYU, A TOP 5 LAW SCHOOL". I AM LIKE...NO...YOU WENT TO VILLANOVA....I WENT TO MVP...
2) LLM CLASSES ARE HARDER THAN JD CLASSES FUCK YOU!!!! TOP 10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NYU TAX >> 2ND TIER JD
3) WANNA BE BIGLAW DURING OUR ORIENTATIONS WE HAD FUCKTARDS FROM 3RD TIER LAW SCHOOL WITH BLAZERS THAT WANTED TO MINGLE LIKE PROFESSIONALS WHILE HOLDING A CUP OF CHARDONNAY. I COULDN'T STAND THIS
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:20 AM Author: Motley public bath keepsake machete hahaha did any of them get jobs? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741586) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:31 AM Author: Demanding spot YUP.
THE VILLANOVA DUDE GOT A JOB WITH THE IRS AND ALWAYS TALKS ABOUT HOW INTERESTING HIS WORK IS. AND HE WENT OUT AND BOUGHT A BLACKBERRY AND IS CONSTANTLY ON IT JUST TO MAKE HIMSELF LOOK LIKE A BIGLAW LAWYER.
THE ST. JOHNS DUDE GOT A JOB WITH DELLOITE DOUCHE. HE WINES ABOUT "LONG HOURS" AND TELLS ME ALL ABOUT DOING "BIG ENGAGEMENTS" "CROSS BORDER M&A" AND "CORPORATE LIFE"
THE TEMPLE GIRL IS STILL UNEMPLOYED AND WANTS TO GET INTO A ESTATE PLANNING BOUTIQUE.
THE CASE WESTERN GIRL LANDED A JOB WITH A TAX BOUTIQUE AND IS VERY HONEST ABOUT HERSELF. SHE ALWAYS TELLS ME THAT SHE DID NOT IMAGINE HERSELF TO BE LIVING SUCH A MEDIOCRE LIFE. SHE WENT TO A PRESTIGIOUS UNDERGRAD SO SHE HAD UNREALISTIC OPINION OF HERSELF.
THE LOYOLA DUDE WENT BACK TO CALIFORNIA AND IS NOW DOING SOMETHING TOTALLY UNRELATED TO LAW.
DO YOU WANT TO HEAR ABOUT MY JD FRIENDS FROM MVP? |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:33 AM Author: Motley public bath keepsake machete haha yes i do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741700) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:41 AM Author: Demanding spot I WENT TO A TOP 10 JD SCHOOL AND ALL MY FRIENDS ARE DOING SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE.
MY GOOD FRIEND, DUDE #1, WORKS AT THE CAPITAL MARKETS GROUP OF A V10 FIRM. HE ALWAYS WARNED ME THAT I SHOULDN'T FUCK UP MY SUMMER JOB.
MY GOOD FRIEND, DUDE #2, WORKS AT MY SUMMER FIRM (V25). HIM AND I PARTIED JUST AS HARD BUT I GOT DINGED AND HE DIDN'T. ONLY 3 PEOPLE GOT DINGED.
MY SEMI GOOD FRIEND, DUDE #3, IS CURRENTLY DEFERRED. GOD WILLING HE WILL START IN AUGUST.
MY SEMI GOOD FRIEND, GIRL #1, WORKS AT A V10 FIRM IN THE LITIGATION DEPARTMENT. SHE WAS ON LAW REVIEW DURING SCHOOL. SHE IS A BIIIATTTCCCHHH~!!! THAT'S RIGHT BIATCH.
MY GOOD FRIEND, GIRL #2, WORKS AT A V50 FIRM. SHE ENJOYS HER LIFE AND RECENTLY GOT ENGAGED TO ANOTHER CLASSMATE (DUDE #4). I WILL NOT BE ATTENDING THEIR WEDDING BECAUSE I AM ABOUT TO KILLSELF.
MY GOOD FRIEND, GUY #4, WORKS AT V25 FIRM. HE WAS A PARTY ANIMAL BUT AT THE SAME TIME A VERY SMART GUY. HE ALSO WARNED ME THAT I SHOULD TRY TO NOT GET DINGED BECAUSE THEY ECONOMY LOOKS GLOOM AHEAD.
A DUDE I COULD NOT STAND AT LAW SCHOOL WORKS AT V5. HE IS FRIENDS WITH DUDE #2 AND GIRL #1 BUT WAS NEVER FRIENDS WITH ME.
I AM TOO DRUNK TO TYPE ANYMORE.
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:43 AM Author: Motley public bath keepsake machete I'm sorry dood. I would give you a job if I could. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741797) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:45 AM Author: Demanding spot BLOW JOB IS OKAY. YOU CAN GIVE THIS RIGHT?
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Date: January 14th, 2010 10:56 AM Author: razzle temple fanboi lol
dude, sorry about everything. i have to tell you that i fucking love your posts though. A+ quality man |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:19 AM Author: Comical Nighttime Wrinkle Subject: what about big4? did big4 shut you out because you didnt have an accounting background, did they shut out most people who didnt have CPAs or accounting backgrounds?
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:20 AM Author: Comical Nighttime Wrinkle also what boutiques are there, or is it mythical midlaw? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741583) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:25 AM Author: Demanding spot THANK YOU ALL FOR TUNING IN.
THE ONE BOUTIQUE THAT COMES INTO MIND IS ROBERTS AND HOLLANDS. IT IS A FIRM COMPOSED OF EX-BIGLAW PARTNERS. THEY ARE AS SELECTIVE AS BIGLAW.
BUT ASIDES FROM STRONG BOUTIQUES, THERE ARE FAKE SHITLAW LIKE PAPPAS & ASSOCIATES THAT COME TO OCI JUST TO TROLL. THEY STATE THAT THEIR GPA REQUIREMENT IS TOP10% OF THE CLASS WHEN THE RECRUITER HIMSELF WENT TO A 4TH TIER LAW SCHOOL AND GRADUATED FROM NYU TAX LLM WITH 3.6 SOMETHING.
THEY DO EXIST BUT ARE NOT FOR TOP 10 PEOPLE WHO ARE FULL OF THEMSELVES.
AND NO THEY ARE NOT MIDLAW. MIDLAW ARE PLACES WITH 3 OR 4 REGIONAL OFFICES AND HIRE 1 OR 2 SUMMER ASSOCIATES. MARKET SALARY FOR THESE FIRM ARE $2000 PER WEEK. BOUTIQUES DON'T HAVE SUMMER PROGRAM AND PAY $1800 OR $50K.
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:27 AM Author: Comical Nighttime Wrinkle thanks,, and big4? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741656) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:43 AM Author: Demanding spot BIG4 ARE THE SHIT FOUR THAT CRUNCH NUMBERS FOR BANKS. PWC, DELLOITE, E&Y AND KPMG. DO NOT WORK THERE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741793) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:29 AM Author: Motley public bath keepsake machete what kind of jobs have you found? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741668) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:32 AM Author: Demanding spot I FOUND NOTHING. I GOT BUNCH OF CALL BACKS FROM THE BIGLAW FIRMS I MENTIONED BUT ONLY GOT DING LETTERS WITH EXPLANATION OF "IN THIS ECONOMY."
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:38 AM Author: Hilarious faggot firefighter you did get no offered pre ite. what did you do? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741745) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:42 AM Author: Demanding spot NOTHING BIG. OUR YEAR WAS SCRUTINIZED MORE SOO THAN OTHER YEARS.
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:42 AM Author: Shaky Heaven Ape I would agree that NYU Tax LLM is easier than tax classes I took in my top 10 JD program (those tax classes where part of tax LLM there). NYU LLM program admits too many students and is not selective at all. For summer classes, they have an open-enrollment policy - anyone with a JD can enroll. This leads to a pretty retarded class discussion.
I find that it is pretty easy to get an A- without ever opening the book or doing any of the required reading or even paying attention in class.
I guess the good thing is that not every employer realizes what TTT NYU gas become.
There are 8 employers registered for the spring 10 OCI.
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:44 AM Author: Demanding spot I PRESUME YOU ARE A STUDENT NOW?
WELL, TAKE MY ADVICE...DROP OUT AND DO SOMETHING ELSE ASAP AND DEFER YOUR DEGREE.
IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A JOB THEN STAY THERE. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:50 AM Author: Demanding spot PLEASE ASK ME MORE QUESTIONS! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741862) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:52 AM Author: Comical Nighttime Wrinkle how much debt total you in? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741886) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:53 AM Author: Demanding spot AROUND 160K. I HAD SCHOLARSHIP. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741902) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:53 AM Author: cracking carnelian corn cake shrine Are NYU law students super-snobbish or something? I stopped there for some law-school party a while ago and everybody stopped talking to me after they learned I didn't attend NYU law. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741908) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:58 AM Author: Demanding spot EVERY TOP 10 LAW SCHOOL IS VERY SNOBBISH. YOUR ABILITY TO MINGLE AT ANOTHER SCHOOL EVENT = FUNCTIONS OF YOUR LAW SCHOOL RANK. BUT THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS.
BUT YOU GOTTA UNDERSTAND. TOP 10 STUDENTS LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THEIR SUMMER GIGS AT BIGLAW. IT WOULD BE AWKWARD FOR THEM TO ASK YOU WHICH PRACTICE GROUP YOU WOULD BE JOINING. RIGHT? |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 1:01 AM Author: cracking carnelian corn cake shrine But I had already SA'd, graduated from a T10, and clerked by the time I visited. It seemed to be a NYU-or-bust type of thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741997) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 1:51 AM Author: Demanding spot no...i don't think so..I think you fall under exceptions. Trust me, the treatment you got is nothing compared to what they do to New York Law School or Dozo kids.
1) Do you go to CLS? If so then it is understandable that you would be hated. 2) Do you go to HYS? If so then it is jealousy
They are not douchey at all. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 2:06 AM Author: cracking carnelian corn cake shrine Hm, negative on both counts, I went to MVP too. Maybe it was just the usual law-school cliquey stuff. Were you at P by chance? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13742627) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 2:54 AM Author: Demanding spot Sorry but that would completely blow my cover.
My cover is some what blow already since there were only hand full of MVPs in NYU. And I could careless what those people think about me.
I care about my JD connection. I can't blow my cover to these people. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 2:56 AM Author: cracking carnelian corn cake shrine No problem, I understand. GL with everything dooder.
Should I tell my friend to drop out of the NYU LLM program? He has a T10 JD but is pessimistic about finding a job now. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 3:28 AM Author: Demanding spot I think your friend knows that he has no option. I sort of blew my steam for entertainment purposes as well. A young recent law grad from a prestigious school who can't land anything and coping with the bitter realities that are vastly at odds with what was virtually promised to him by Robin Singh (founder of Testmasters).
Think about it. I am not stupid. Your friend is not stupid. We knew our options. Namely, shitlaw for 1~2 years hoping economy recovers or NYU Tax LLM gunning for tax at biglaw.
The economy is in such a condition where top 10 JD is not enough (even with good grades) to get a job after getting dinged from SA.
Tell him that he is not alone in this. Tell him that all the uber prestigious but unlucky or socially awkward law nerds empathize with his unfortunate situation.
Tell him that only thing waiting for him is debt + worse situation than before. Wait...he might kill you for saying that..so don't tell him the truth.
Rather offer him. Offer him the blue and the red pill. Inform him of his choice. The red pill = dropping out and facing the harsh reality. Blue pill = going back to greenwich shithole and hooking up with a fellow tax student.
SORRY FOR SOUNDING LIKE A RETARD.
NYU TAX LLM SUCKKKKSSSS~!!!
THE FOOD CHAIN OF BIGLAW/SCHOOL MODEL.
TRANCHE #1: LAW SCHOOL. WILL MILK YOU $120K EASILY. TRANCHE #2: BAR BRI. WILL TAX YOU $3000 FOR NOTHING TRANCHE #3: ROBIN SINGH. WILL TAX YOU $1000 FOR SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT TRANCH #4: WESTLAW PUBLISHING. E&E, GILBERT...GIVE ME MY MONEY BACKKKK!!!!!! CAN'T SELL USED BOOKSS!!! TRANCH #5: NYU TAX LLM. WILL MILK YOU AND HAMMER THE LAST NAIL...ANOTHER $60K
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Date: January 7th, 2010 3:35 AM Author: cracking carnelian corn cake shrine TY, sir, I will convey him the words of the Tax Prophet. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13743027) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 3:38 AM Author: Demanding spot no problem. what is your friend's story? Dinged from SA? No SA? Recently laid off? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13743034) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 3:40 AM Author: cracking carnelian corn cake shrine Smart guy, but no SA. Loves tax. Wouldn't mind a Big4/IRS job, but even those seem hard as hell to get these days.
EDIT: Hitting the sack now, I'll check this thread later. TY for the thread. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 3:52 PM Author: Demanding spot He will have to do a good job convincing IRS and Big4 that he wants to work for them.
Socially Awkward or personal reasons why he didn't summer? |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 1:00 AM Author: fantasy-prone lascivious space How did you fellow LLM students react to discovering you were T10? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13741972) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 1:00 AM Author: Demanding spot SOME OF THEM CALLED ME SMART. SOME OF THEM SIMPLY IGNORED BY THEIR FACES TURNED RED.
THE PROFESSORS DEFINITELY GAVE ME CREDIT. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 9:45 AM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse That's a friggin awesome reply. I had the feeling that the standards at NYU were lax because I received my acceptance package immediately (I have good grades at a T10).
I appreciate you talking about the students at NYU, I'm sure it's as fun as taking a JD class with a large number of foreign LLMs.
So let me run through the employment "options" at NYU.
BIG Law - Probably not hiring anyway, and because I got no-offered at a V50 firm, they probably won't be interested. I agree.
GOV - IRS will be tough because they are filled with lower tier law school graduates who value things other than educational pedigree. I can't think of any other government agency that hires tax LLMs. Plus the IRS is probably swamped with applications.
MID / SMALL Law - Were there any mid-size or small firms at NYU's OCI? Isn't this an option?
BIG4 - Do they prefer accounting experience? They don't hire regular lawyers?
It sounds like you at least got some interviews, that's better than I'm doing right now. At my T10, we're having a 'spring OCI' for 3Ls, that's right, with a whopping total of TWO fucking employers: the army, and the air force. There's no way my flat footed ass could do either. I graduate in May. I'm just as fucked as you are.
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Date: January 7th, 2010 3:59 PM Author: Demanding spot Okay so let me answer your questions:
Mid-law/small-law: This is probably your best bet. Trying to find a respectable boutique in the city.
IRS: You nailed it right on point.
Big4: Tax law that you do at Big4 does not require CPA license. But for some reason these CPA/JDs from shit schools think that they are better than top10 JDs. So accounting is a plus. Most candidates are accounting majors from undergrad (or accounting emphasis in their econ major) and went to a second tier law school. Chances are, the recruiter probably did not go to a top10 school. The recruiter does not value your JD prestige as much as he should.
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Date: January 7th, 2010 4:03 PM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse Were you looking for boutique firm positions, or only big law/big 4/IRS? I don't have a clear picture of NYU LLM employment prospects, but it seems like a whole bunch of people are unemployed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13745609) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 4:05 PM Author: Demanding spot I was looking mainly at BigLaw. Seriously, the only reason why I went into the program was to skip shitlaw for 1~2 years.
IRS/Big4 didn't even grant me an interview.
I had one mid-law.
I AM NOW LOOKING FOR MIDLAW AND BOUTIQUES AND ACTUALLY HAVE FEW INTERVIEWS SET. SO BOUTIQUES ARE NOT IMPOSSIBLE. BUT IT IS DEFINITELY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I EXPECTED WHEN I GOT INTO TOP 10 JD. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 4:09 PM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse I can definitely sympathize on the lower expectations part. AND IRS/Big 4 didn't even grant an interview?!?! Fucking twats.
So what do you think if I went to the NYU LLM in tax, with the intention of practicing at a mid size or boutique T&E firm in NY or some other major city, making a starting salary of 60? Is that a good bet?
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Date: January 7th, 2010 4:19 PM Author: Demanding spot YOU CAN PROBABLY DO THAT. INFACT LOT OF LAWYERS I MET AT BOUTIQUES ALWAYS PRAISED ME FOR HAVING A TOP JD.
BOUTIQUES/MID-LAW ARE MORE UNDERSTANDING THAN IRS/BIG4.
HOWEVER, BOUTIQUES ARE NOT BIGLAW. THEY WON'T GO SO FAR AS SETTING TOP JD AS PREREQUISITE TO GETTING INTERVIEWS.
COMPARE THESE STUDENTS AND JO PROSPECT: 1) DUDE #1 U. Michigan JD GPA: 3.4 Summered at V50 No offered Secondary Journal Currently in the Tax LLM straight from JD LLM grade: 3.6
2) DUDE #2 Temple JD GPA: top 30% Did not summer Secondary Journal Currently in the Tax LLM straight from JD LLM grade: 3.8
3) Dude #3 Temple JD GPA: top 30% Did not summer Secondary Journal Worked at litigation boutique for 5 years after getting JD LLM grade: 3.5
Top Market Biglaw (V10 and GPA picky firms): Biglaw will rank the candidates in the following order: 1, 2, and 3 (might not even qualify). Notice despite the fact that 2 has a higher JD and LLM grade, Biglaw is not interested.
Rest of BigLaw (Tax Departments filled with TTT JD with LLM) 1 and 2 might get equal weight with some of the partners rooting for 1 while others rooting for 2. Number 3 is pwned.
IRS / Tax Court: Nuber 3 pwns 2 and 1 all the day. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 4:30 PM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse Good call, although I think biglaw is totally done for me and for your hypothetical dude #1 (let alone dudes #2 and #3). The no-offer, in this market, is the equivalent of a death sentence for biglaw. If things picked up right away, people might overlook it as a just a bad year (after all, a helluva lot of people got no offered at my firm), but things won't pick up like they were. All I can do is post on this message board and see if I'll be able to make 60K starting and salvage what is left of my career. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13745819) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 5:04 PM Author: Demanding spot It's really 1/2 and 1/2.
The no offer is everywhere. I don't know if your no offer was performance related or economy driven. If it was the former, the bad economy definitely masks that, although not 100%.
If it was the latter, you have to come up with a convincing story. As for me, I was a Class of 2008 and only 2 people out of 50+ in the entire program got no-offered.
If your summer class had 30% or more no-offer (which is very rare even ITE), then you might have a good story. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:24 PM Author: bearded provocative locus Do they let JDs take all the same classes and get on the same curve as the LLMs? Are there a lot of people who take those classes to boost GPA? What did you think of the JDs you encountered? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13744076) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 4:25 PM Author: Demanding spot yes curved together
As a JD you probably have both advantages and disadvantages. Most LLMs are retaking classes they took as a JD. But most LLMs are not legal minds. Like I said before they have picked up business jargons and spew them like they know what they are talking about. But when it comes to legal analysis, they are shit. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 12:55 PM Author: flirting beady-eyed stage 2ndTierToilet,
Why didnt you clerk for a tax judge? I would think MVP and NYU LLM could get that. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 2:27 PM Author: Shaky Heaven Ape Last year there were 3 openings for tax court clerks. They are harder to get now than SCOTUS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13744690) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 4:03 PM Author: Demanding spot I am not going to tell you any specific reason but let's just say even my career counselor was surprised when I called in to tell her that I got no interview callbacks.
1) Almost all of Tax Court judges went to a TTT Law School. This is a fact. Some of the judges went to 4th tier law schools. 2) Almost all of them never even set a foot in a bigfirm. Most worked for a boutique. 3) Almost all of the clerks hired have extensive litigation experience at shit firm prior to LLM
Tax Court is NOT District Court.
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Date: January 7th, 2010 4:43 PM Author: Shaky Heaven Ape Ok, you are flame. YOu have no clue what you are talking about.
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Date: January 7th, 2010 5:06 PM Author: Demanding spot How so. Are you calling me a flame 1) to justify your current employment with tax court. If so please indicate average JD rankings of the clerks there. Or 2) to give false hope for your 2nd tier JD? Give me a break. 2nd tier students are more fucked than ever. If top10 is fucked, 2nd tier is even more fucked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13746091) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 4:08 PM Author: Demanding spot MVP (GOOD GRADES) + NYU LLM CAN GET YOU A LOT OF STUFF IN A GOOD MARKET.
MVP + NYU LLM WILL NOT GET YOU IRS AND BIG4 BECAUSE THEY HAVE DIFFERENT HIRING CRITERIA.
I AM SURE ALL THIS SOUNDS BIZARRE. IT MAKES NO SENSE. BUT THE TAX COURT/IRS/BIG4 MODEL IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM DISTRICT COURT/BIGFIRM MODEL. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 5:15 PM Author: Demanding spot didn't even sleep because I was so mad. The debt collector called again. Damn it. I cited bunch of constitutional and federal consumer debt law to stop this guy from harassing me but he just laughed and said he is gonna come and get me.
I am scared now.
BUMP! Keep me busy! |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 7:47 PM Author: bearded provocative locus Dude you had me thinking you were legit but now it's abundantly clear you are flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13747280) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 5:26 PM Author: Demanding spot bump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13746237) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 5:27 PM Author: vibrant black woman old irish cottage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13746245) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 5:28 PM Author: Demanding spot I don't know what that is. explain more. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13746260) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 6:16 PM Author: Demanding spot bump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13746590) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 8:59 PM Author: Soul-stirring coldplay fan french chef You make it sound like NYU's LLM program is a complete TTT because of the students that attend the program. But from reading your posts I think the reason you didn't and can't find work is because you are a complete douche. You have this sense of prestige and entitlement because you went to MVP. Guess what? No one fucking cares, and the degree did you no good because you are a douche. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13747939) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 12:11 AM Author: Demanding spot I am a douche? What? I've never heard that. Just go ask my MVP friends. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13750417) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 9:42 PM Author: Submissive boistinker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13748371) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 10:42 PM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse Does anyone know the OCI numbers for fall of 2009 and spring of 2010? I heard that the joint OCI with Georgetown has 8 employers. Doesn't NYU have its own campus interviews? Does anyone have those numbers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13749085) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 2:41 AM Author: Demanding spot Last year we had more. It is a big circus anyways. Firms came, interviewed, called few people back, and did not hire.
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Date: January 7th, 2010 10:42 PM Author: Aromatic crackhouse I think I'm one of your classmates. Sucks to know I was being mocked for my TTT JD. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13749094) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 10:44 PM Author: Submissive boistinker H'es not legitimate silly goose... he's talking about how everybody got no offered his year, which would have been summer of '07... when basically no one got no-offered. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13749109) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 10:45 PM Author: Aromatic crackhouse There is some truth in his raging. However, if he got the LLM grades he is claiming to have gotten, he would've gotten something even ITE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13749118) |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 10:46 PM Author: Submissive boistinker No, bro, I totally agree... I'm sure it's a horror show. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13749133) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 12:13 AM Author: Demanding spot Read my post carefully.
Almost everyone got offered in my summer class. I am talking about NYU Tax LLM OCI for 2008~2009. And yes, it was a massacre. |
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Date: January 7th, 2010 11:02 PM Author: bearded provocative locus What does top 10% from top 10 and 4.0 from NYU tax LLM get you? Assume cold offer not accepted. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13749279) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 12:10 AM Author: Demanding spot In my year you would have gotten nothing. Feb 2009 TIP was a bloodbath.
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Date: January 8th, 2010 12:27 AM Author: bearded provocative locus This can't possibly be true, can it?? Can someone else confirm or deny? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13750696) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 2:50 AM Author: Demanding spot I FUCKING SAID YES.
YOU CAN GET SOMETHING OUTSIDE THE OCI. BUT YOUR HYPOTHETICAL ITSELF IF FUCKTARDED.
FIRST, WHY THE HELL WOULD TOP 10% AT TOP JD GO TO NYU TAX LLM? DESPITE NO OFFER, THIS PERSON WOULD MOSTLY LIKELY AIM FOR FEDERAL CLERKSHIPS.
SECOND, JUST CALL THE FUCKING CAREER CENTER AT NYU AND ASK THEM. TELL THEM THAT YOU ARE A PROSPECTIVE LLM STUDENT WHO WOULD LIKE TO GET A ROUGH IDEA OF WHAT THE EMPLOYMENT RATE IS LIKE. AND THEN COME BACK HERE AND TELL ME THAT I AM TROLLING.
THIRD, JUST THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN FEBRUARY OF LAST YEAR. GO ON ABOVETHELAW.COM AND READ UP ON WHAT THE FIRMS WERE DOING IN FEBRUARY. DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD FIRE AND HIRE SIMULTANEOUSLY? DO YOU RECEIVE AND GIVE DICK AT THE SAME TIME?
I AM NOT MAD AT YOU. I JUST FEEL ANGRY. I APOLOGIZE IF YOU WERE OFFENDED. NOT MY INTENTION. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 2:11 AM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant 2ndTT, you are a train wreck. Obviously, a huge portion of your problem is the economy. Without a doubt, 2 years ago you would have been offered a spot with IRS with median grades and no LLM. But even reading your posts now it is as if you haven't learned anything from your experience and you blame everyone else.
As someone who interviewed on behalf of IRS Counsel a while back, it was real easy to weed out people who had no government interest. You continually focused on BIGLAW and derided boutiques, BIG4, and IRS. You still do it. You'd have been in a far better position if you would have realized that all those people at NYU were your peers. You are not at the same place of privilege as your former MVP buddies who have jobs. You are one of the 99% of the rest of law school graduates who would be lucky to have SOMETHING upon graduation. Yet you still chased that BIGLAW unicorn while pissing off any chances you had to salvage your long term career by aiming straight on for Big4 or IRS.
It sounds like it isn't too late, anyway, and you are refocusing and coming around. I've been checking Big4 sites lately and it does look like they are doing some hiring. Not a bad place to start with good long term potential. Try to stop shitting on your peers once you get there, though. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 2:46 AM Author: Demanding spot Thanks alot Ben_Ther.
Most of the shit I said was for UncleSpiffy and other top JDs who are not lucky. Although you take great offense at shit I said, believe me, everything I said is very common at top law schools. They talk about 2nd tier people. They talk about shitlaw. And yes, they talk about IRS agents.
I actually got some interviews for boutiques. The ones that regularly deal with big firms. But I think there is some wisdom to what you said. Just please don't audit me. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 11:45 AM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant You just stuck your foot in your mouth by assuming I didn't go to a "T10" school. I did, and not one of the three you went to. Maybe after the T6 people are more insecure about their relative position in the law school heirarchy, but I don't recall anyone with nearly the contempt you have for lower-ranked schools or government or accounting firms. At any rate, once you are out in the real world for a while, government and Big4 start looking pretty good. I saw that you were now focusing on boutiques and I'm glad for that. I do hope you find something. Once you get there, you can climb your way to the top in about 5 years, if your ivy-league skills and work ethic amount to anything.
I don't take offense to anything you said. I'm just being honest with you for your own sake. I was in much the same place you are now about 5 years ago, but it did me a lot of good to change my attitude.
I also don't work for the IRS Counsel anymore. It was a good place to start, though. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 3:11 PM Author: Demanding spot You went to Chicago and ended up at IRS? Was it because of the power and prestige of reviewing tax returns?
Or, were you dinged and couldn't find anything else to do? |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:24 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant You may be familiar with the concept of being no-offered from 2L SA. I decided not to focus on short-term law firm benefits and to secure myself as a practicing attorney first and foremost, so I was more interested in job security and experience. My first choice was always DOJ, though. IRS Counsel was a good second choice. Once I got over the money, there really weren't any good reasons to go back to law firms.
Back in 2006-2007, I had headhunters call about once every two weeks, and there were plenty of firm jobs to lateral to. The money would have been nice, but it was more important to get some good experience under my belt to keep my options open in case things went south in private practice again. It turned out to be a good move. I might cash in next time the economy goes up, but at that point I'll likely be looking for about a 1/2 mil salary.
In tax law there are only two sides. If you really want to be very good at it, you should try to get at least a little experience on both of them. I was reading the ABA publication on careers in tax the other day. 9 out of ten of the profiles did public service at some point. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:27 PM Author: Demanding spot SO YOU FUCKED UP. DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT. AND NOW TELLING US HOW YOU WENT ABOUT IMPROVING YOURSELF?
DO YOU WORK AT A FIRM NOW? IF SO WHAT RANGE? |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:39 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant Not at a firm yet. I'm not interested in being an associate. Right now I litigate 7-9 figure cases, so I'm not willing to take the prestige hit. Partner or nothing when I lateral, pretty much. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13756014) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:42 PM Author: Demanding spot DON'T YOU THINK THAT IS RISKY. WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO YOURSELF? I MEAN IS LIFE OUTSIDE BIGFIRM THAT GREAT? YOU NEVER EVEN TASTED THE BIGLAW LIFE. SO WHY DON'T YOU LATERAL, WORK FOR TWO YEARS AS ASSOCIATE, AND COME BACK? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13756037) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:56 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant Biglaw tasted me and spat me out. In fairness it was a small branch office of a larger firm, but I can always go to private practice. I am honestly so far beyond what any of my "peers" are doing right now, I can't really consider doing their jobs. I am actually quite busy trying to get them into the government, because they are all pretty sick of it.
How the heck am I expected to go to being a 5th year associate when all my adversaries are partners right now? It would just be weird. Makes no sense. I can cash-in whenever I want. I might as well wait until Partner. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 6:06 PM Author: Demanding spot DON'T YOU THINK IT IS RIDICULOUS FOR YOU TO SAY THAT YOU CAN CASH IN ANYTIME YOU WANT?
I KNOW PEOPLE FROM HARVARD THAT NEVER WORKED AT BIGLAW BECAUSE THEY WERE SOCIALLY AWKWARD. THEY STILL CLING ONTO THEIR SENSE OF PRESTIGE BUT IT IS JUST LAUGHABLE.
SO INSTEAD OF CRITICIZING MY DOUCHERY, SHOULDN'T YOU BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR HUBRIS? |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 6:55 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant Its about the cases I've worked on. High profile stuff, big stuff. I've just gotten lucky with my case assignments. There is a difference between knowing that you have good skills, marketable experience, and are networked in and putting down people who haven't been as lucky as you. There are a lot of people in government who would not be able to make the switch. Part of it is school name, bullshit stuff, but the majority of it is that they haven't made a point of getting on bigger projects, putting in extra hours, doing things to make themselves marketable. For example, if you get on a team writing the regs for Transfer Pricing in the IRS, you are golden. I was offered that project, but turned it down for something similar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13756584) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 7:09 PM Author: Demanding spot SO YOU WENT TO T6, GOT NO OFFERED, NOW AT IRS, AND WILL NOT LATERAL UNLESS AS PARTNER? WELL THAT IS AN INTERESTING LIFE.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK MAN. WRITE THOSE REGS. WORK ON HIGH PROFILE STUFF AND GET 1/3 THE MONEY YOUR FRIENDS ARE GETTING.
YOU ARE AWARE THAT 99% OF BIGLAW LAWYERS DON'T RESPECT YOU RIGHT? |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 7:15 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant You are aware that I said I no longer work at the IRS, right?
Put the pieces together, man.
I left IRS precisely because of the lack of respect.
I now work somewhere else, but not in private practice.
You really need to get a clue. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 7:17 PM Author: Demanding spot I was aware. I was just testing your credibility. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13756735) |
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Date: January 10th, 2010 12:37 PM Author: Flesh supple market doj? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13771826) |
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Date: January 10th, 2010 12:40 PM Author: Demanding spot YOUR MOM? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13771846) |
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Date: January 10th, 2010 12:46 PM Author: Flesh supple market what (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13771888) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 3:04 AM Author: Demanding spot bump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13752033) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 3:39 AM Author: Demanding spot bump bump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13752163) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 4:59 AM Author: Soul-stirring coldplay fan french chef Get a life. ALSO STOP TYPING IN ALL CAPS LIKE AS IF YOU ARE IMPORTANT ENOUGH WHERE PEOPLE SHOULD/WOULD WANT TO READ YOUR POSTS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13752368) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:07 AM Author: Demanding spot HELLO TTT! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13752378) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:14 AM Author: Soul-stirring coldplay fan french chef Hello NIGGER with no friends, life, or even reason to wake up in the morning. You know you should really consider drinking clorox. I think it would work out well for you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13752386) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:24 AM Author: Demanding spot Hello TTT Law Grad! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13752401) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 6:03 AM Author: Soul-stirring coldplay fan french chef Hello little boy butthole eating FAGGOT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13752409) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 3:02 PM Author: Demanding spot Hello TTT law grad!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13754774) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 7:08 AM Author: onyx home in fairness, he's right about your attendance at a TTT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13752423) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:33 AM Author: mahogany gunner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13752403) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 7:26 AM Author: Flesh supple market do LLM programs give scholarships? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13752445) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 11:56 AM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant Yes. Coworker of mine got full tuition to GULC LLM. Work experience apparently matters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13753402) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 3:32 PM Author: Flesh supple market What were her approximate credentials? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755026) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 3:35 PM Author: Demanding spot Probably a JD from non top law school like Hofstra. Law Review. 5 years of work experience at shitlaw. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 3:55 PM Author: Flesh supple market Nigger?
Did you get an LLM scholly? |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:36 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant There was a mix of attorneys at my office. Hastings, Berkeley, USF, Golden Gate, Chicago, Stanford, NYU all represented pre-ITE. They are picking up new hires a lot of top school grads ITE, though. No correlation between the school and how well they perform, though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755988) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:27 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant 10-20 years government attorney. It was a good move on the part of GULC. They got to have their name attached to someone who was already pretty successful, and she got two good promotions right after.
Also, Lower T1 JD. Good name private school, though. Think Notre Dame, but not. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 3:29 PM Author: Demanding spot bump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13754999) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 3:53 PM Author: Demanding spot JUST LANDED TWO BOUTIQUE INTERVIEWS. ONE OF THEM PAYS MARKET.
MY LIFE IS FUCKING RUINED. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 3:56 PM Author: Flesh supple market Sounds like you're doing ok. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755223) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 3:58 PM Author: Demanding spot WELL COMPARED TO TTT LAW GRADS I WILL ALWAYS DO OKAY. EVEN ITE OR EVEN UNDER STALIN REGIME I WILL ALWAYS DO BETTER THAN THEM. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755248) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 4:02 PM Author: Flesh supple market If you end up at a boutique that pays market you could have a decent lifestyle. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755287) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 4:03 PM Author: Demanding spot DECENT LIFESTYLE?
YOU MEAN BIGLAW LIFESTYLE?
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Date: January 8th, 2010 4:08 PM Author: Flesh supple market No, less hours. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755340) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 4:35 PM Author: Unhinged meetinghouse Are these interviews in NYC? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755500) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 4:42 PM Author: Demanding spot one of them is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755564) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 4:49 PM Author: Flesh supple market And the other is in DC? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755609) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 4:51 PM Author: Demanding spot NOPE. WHERE I WENT TO SCHOOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755615) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 4:56 PM Author: Flesh supple market Ah, Philly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755649) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:31 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant Good luck. Get a job. Get that stink of desperation and unemployment off of you (oddly, douchery only makes you stink more). No matter what job you get, work your ass off, and keep looking for something better.
What is your plan to nail these interviews? |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:33 PM Author: Demanding spot JUST GO IN AND SMILE. AND SAY MY JD WAS HARDER THAN LL.M. ALSO, TALK ABOUT HOW ALL MY FRIENDS ARE AT BIGLAW AND I WOULD DEFINITELY BRING THE BIGLAW MENTALITY INTO THE FIRM. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13755943) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:40 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant I like your style. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13756018) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:43 PM Author: Demanding spot I AM JUST KIDDING.
WHY DON'T YOU GIVE ME SOME TIP? OBVIOUSLY I HAVE BEEN DOING SOMETHING WRONG TO GET REJECTED FROM BOUTIQUES AND IRS.
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:51 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant You weren't really trying for the IRS. It helps to know s*it, and you didn't know anything about it. I had some unfair advantages going in because one of my profs worked there and gave me tons of insight. I practiced from questions he gave me, which were a lot of boilerplate ones they asked. I also had an internship closely related to that job, and a good reference. My stuff was all lined up, and not much was left to chance. It was also a bit easier 4-5 years ago. My interview was perfect, but my resume would probably be auto-ding ITE. I am a firm believer that, once you have the interview, you just have to nail the interview to beat everyone else, though.
It all comes down to preparation. How much do you know about the place, what they do, what your job would require, the people who are interviewing you? Have you practiced any Q&A type stuff? What are you bringing to the interview? When was the last time you looked at your resume with a critical eye? |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 5:53 PM Author: Demanding spot all the time.
Sometimes I over do it.
Why is it that IRS does not hire like biglaw? Namely, only higher from top JDs and law review people from 2nd tier? |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 6:05 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant They have been on a big push to hire top JDs. Right now they have been hiring people from top JDs and people on law review. I think there are actually far more qualified people than they can take right now. Like I said, two years ago you would have been hired almost on the spot just based on your JD name. Right now, they can pass on you if you don't pass the smell test, if you look like you'll jump ship in less than two years for Biglaw, which you clearly want to do. I know someone in your LLM class who also got passed up by IRS, and he interned with us. I can't make a lot of sense of it, although he was not the best at interviewing.
Part of the problem with IRS counsel is that they aren't LLM focused hiring either. They'll spend almost all of their budget on 3L honors in the Fall. It makes little sense, but it is much harder to get into the IRS from NYU because TIP happens in Spring. IRS would probably prefer to hire more NYU LLMs, but they have already hired up mostly at that point. You probably didn't apply to IRS counsel in Fall or your 3L year, but you had a better chance at that time than you did at Spring TIP. Jacked up, I know.
This is why I tell people not to wait for spring TIP at NYU. It totally screws you. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 6:10 PM Author: Demanding spot i AM VERY WELL AWARE OF THAT. TIP SCREWED ME. I DIDN'T APPLY ANYWHERE IN THE FALL BECAUSE I HAD THE FALSE UNDERSTANDING THAT TONS OF BIGLAW FIRMS WOULD COME IN SPRING.
SO BY THE TIME TIP WENT AWAY IN MARCH, I HAD NOTHING TO DO. I WAS CALLING UP PLACES ONLY TO HEAR THAT THEY HAVE FILLED THEIR ENTRY LEVEL BACK IN FALL OF 2008. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 6:43 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant I know, man. I'm sorry. It was a mistake made by many. I'm only better informed in hindsight myself.
I think NYU LLM does it on purpose, just so the LLM candidates don't compete with their JD. Total BS. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 6:48 PM Author: Demanding spot NYU LLM needs to get sued. I can't stand those thieves. THEY WERE NEVER HONEST WITH ME ABOUT JOB PROSPECTS. THEY SAID IT LOOKS GLOOMY, LLMS DO NOT GET JOB PREFERENCE OVER JD..ETC.
BUT NONE OF THEM TOLD ME THAT SOME FIRMS TREAT LL.MS AS 3LS AND YOU CAN TECHNICALLY APPLY BEFORE YOU START YOUR LLM DEGREE.
ALSO, WHY THE FUCK DO BIGLAW FIRMS EVEN SHOW UP TO TIP? MY YEAR NO ONE GOT HIRED. WHY COME AND JUST GO?
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE BIGLAW RATES WERE LIKE FROM NYU TAX LLM PRE-ITE? |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 7:02 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant I heard like 20-30% law firms. I don't know what would be biglaw out of that. Then like 69% big 4. Some small portion to clerking and pretty much no one to IRS Counsel. I think the big difference is that Big4 used to pick up all the slack. From there you could go to law firms if you worked it right. It was never that good for firms, but candidates like you would have been right to expect it in the past, then at least have had Big4 as fallback.
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Date: January 8th, 2010 7:12 PM Author: Demanding spot DAMN.
SO HOW MUCH WEIGHT DO FIRMS PUT TO JD CREDENTIALS?
WHO IS BETTER? TOP 25% FROM MVP, LLM GPA 3.6
COMPARED TO
TOP 10% FROM 2ND TIER, LLM GPA 3.8 |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 7:29 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant Your JD credential will be the most important. Some firms may not even interview the 2nd tier JD. When headhunters were looking for laterals, they searched the bar site by specialty and by JD name. They won't even find the 2nd tier JD at somewhere like IRS Counsel, but they found me.
For less selective places, the two will be the same. Other factors will be determinative. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 7:53 PM Author: Demanding spot Is this the case for TIP as well?
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Date: January 8th, 2010 7:33 PM Author: charismatic bat-shit-crazy range messiness I'm not surprised NYU OCI is right down. Tax firms and the IRS are going to see through these unemployed NYU LLM grads so easily:
Q1: Why didn't you do any tax subjects in LS if you are interested in tax?
Q2: When did you become interested in tax, was it before or after you were no offered/offer withdrawn/laid off?
It was one thing to recruit from the NYU LLM when there was a shortage of attorneys back in the boom but now firms and the IRS can fill their tax slots with T10 JD's who actually want to do tax. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 7:44 PM Author: Arousing resort legal warrant This is pretty spot on. I was just telling someone yesterday that I would love to drop the LLM of the resume, but I couldn't explain the 1 year gap.
On the other hand, "I didn't know I was interested in tax until I took Intro to Income tax my 3rd year, and did well in it" usually works pretty well. The LLM really only exist due to late-bloomers. There really isn't anything dishonest about that.
If you are a T10 JD who had the foresight to specialize while in law school, though, you are definitely ahead of the game and much better off. These people were almost non-existant 5 years ago. No one specialized in something like tax because they didn't think they had to at T10 schools. T2 school students knew better, so they would be the anomalous hire at a top firm due to their cpa/jd credential or would pick up the NYU LLM to make themselves more palatable to top firms.
Now, ITE, T10 students have to think like T2 students and do things like specialize and network. Everything is all backwards. |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 8:02 PM Author: ebony theater stage becky I guess you're in the National Office? Certainly not SB. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13757026) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 8:06 PM Author: Demanding spot He doesn't work for the IRS anymore. He does government agency stuff but NOT the IRS. Probably some international trade related work involving Transfer Price.
Anyways, Ben Thur is a pretty good guy. Very different from XOXO trolls. Very helpful too. I totally believe that he is a T6 JD who knows what's up.
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Date: January 8th, 2010 8:08 PM Author: ebony theater stage becky What agency? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13757056) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 8:12 PM Author: Demanding spot I DON'T FUCKING KNOW. WHO CARES. HE IS A GOOD GUY. STOP BEING A NOSEY XOXO TROLL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13757073) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 8:14 PM Author: ebony theater stage becky I wouldn't hire you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13757089) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 8:23 PM Author: Saffron tattoo gas station lol i can't believe you people haven't realized this whole thread is flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13757187) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 9:10 PM Author: ebony theater stage becky That was my first thought. I was like WTF. Then I started to believe. Now I'm like damn what was I thinking. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13757627) |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 9:43 PM Author: Demanding spot IT IS NOT A FUCKING FLAME YOU FUCKTARD. UNLIKE SOME PEOPLE I DON'T TROLL HERE.
TELL ME HOW THIS IS A FLAME! |
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Date: January 8th, 2010 10:46 PM Author: talking water buffalo i enjoyed this thread.
but not once did anyone ponder the desirability of getting the LLM so as to be able to actually practice tax law. don't biglaw firms like llm's because they actually know tax stuff that you can't learn in a 3-yr JD program? |
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Date: January 9th, 2010 8:48 PM Author: Demanding spot yes and no.
biglaw firms would love to pay the same money for JD/LLM, assuming everything remains the same. However, things are not always the same. Infact most of NYU TAX LLMs are 2nd tier fags trying to disguise their TTT JD by putting a NYU on the resume. Firms hate this.
For every student that made biglaw from TTT JD, there are at least 20 ttt jd grads who will never make biglaw. |
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Date: January 9th, 2010 4:22 PM Author: Demanding spot BUMP (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13764459) |
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Date: January 9th, 2010 10:51 PM Author: talking water buffalo i thought some biglaw firms prefer LLMs to non-LLMs when hiring into tax practices. so that a top10 JD might lose out to a T2JD with the LLM because the latter knows more tax law and there's less needed on the job training. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13768464) |
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Date: January 10th, 2010 12:40 PM Author: Demanding spot YEAH I HEARD ABOUT SOME FIRMS THAT DO THAT. BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THESE FIRMS ARE THE LOWER RANKING VAULT FIRMS THAT HIRE LATERAL TAX. THEY ARE NOT WACHTELL WHERE LAWYERS ARE MADE AND NOT HIRED.
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Date: January 10th, 2010 6:52 PM Author: fantasy-prone lascivious space Pretty much. The best firms prefer to recruit associates straight out of LS and train them. If the associates at these firms have tax LLMs then they have almost always done them after starting with their firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13775583) |
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Date: January 13th, 2010 2:49 AM Author: Demanding spot I HAVE TO TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS METHOD. CHANCES ARE, TO SURVIVE AT A TOP 25 FIRM, YOU HAVE TO BE ON TOP OF YOUR STUFF. FOR THREE YEARS THEY WILL LET YOU SLIDE BY. BUT UNLESS YOU SHOW THEM THAT YOU CAN DO THE WORK, I'VE SEEN YALE JDS LET GO BY DEBEVOISE PLIMPTON (AFTER THREE YEARS).
AND YOU CAN TOTALLY DO THE WORK AT BIG FIRMS AFTER TAKING 3~4 TAX CLASSES AS JD. BASIC FED, CORP, PNS, AND INT'L SHOULD BE MORE THAN ENOUGH.
THE MOST DIFFICULT THING IS THINKING LIKE A TAX LAWYER. UNFORTUNATELY, NYU LLM TURNS 80% OF THEIR STUDENT BODY INTO TAX ACCOUNTANTS AND NOT LAWYERS. LESS THAN 20% OF THE STUDENT BODY (EVEN AFTER A YEAR OF FORMAL TRAINING) DEVELOP LEGAL MIND.
TOP LAW SCHOOL --> BIGLAW --> PART TIME LLM
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Date: January 13th, 2010 10:14 PM Author: talking water buffalo ty you seem like a good dood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13802492) |
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Date: January 17th, 2010 4:51 AM Author: Soul-stirring coldplay fan french chef ARE YOU A NIGGER? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13829683) |
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Date: January 30th, 2010 1:03 AM Author: Demanding spot BUMP (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13958220) |
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Date: February 1st, 2010 6:40 PM Author: smoky aphrodisiac cruise ship trump supporter Did you get any A+s? Do you know anybody in your class that did? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13983671) |
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Date: February 2nd, 2010 2:18 AM Author: Demanding spot stfu! I know why you are asking that. Nice try. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#13989339) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2011 5:17 PM Author: bistre business firm dragon whatever happened to Yumadbro(#2)? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#17671463) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2011 5:32 PM Author: Navy sadistic rehab elastic band I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THIS AS WELL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1181137&forum_id=2#17671582) |