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HEY CONSERVATARDS: EXPLAIN YOUR OPPOSITION TO KEYNESIAN ECONOMIC
Poast new message in this thread
Date: February 9th, 2012 8:39 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-09/columbia-s-sachs-says-krugman-is-crude-keynesian-on-spending-tom-keene.html
“Paul has a powerful bully pulpit in his New York Times column, and he’s been on one theme for three years,” Sachs said. Krugman has “under-emphasized the risks of growing debt, he’s over-asserted what we really know about the effects of these policies and he has underestimated the long-term need for public-sector change and reform,” Sachs said.
“Krugman has staked out a rather crude Keynesian position and unrelentingly so,” Sachs said today, referring to John Maynard Keynes, the British economist who advocated government spending to spur economic growth during the Great Depression. Krugman “knows one thing, which is stimulus, stimulus, stimulus and expand deficit spending,
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:41 PM Author: Stirring pale chad sachs is even more left wing than krugman you dumbshit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933332) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:42 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse Sachs fucked up with his Russian revival argument in the 90's. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933337) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:13 PM Author: hateful diverse turdskin jap TBF the SHOCK (therapy) doctrine worked pretty well for Czech and Poland among others. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933520) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:27 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse Source for claim? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933587) |
Date: February 9th, 2012 8:42 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal point selfie Nobody is opposed to it per se. It just does not work. Am I opposed to "cleaning" your car with grease? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933334) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:45 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse Do you think economists just decide the optimal level of government spending on the basis of a rough notion of fairness? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933352) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:12 PM Author: insecure keepsake machete forum You are the dumbest fucking poster on this site. Kill yourself.
(For those following along at home, no it's not brilliant play dumb shtick either). |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:46 PM Author: Hyperventilating Cobalt Background Story Spending now, austerity later is what this economy needs. To believe otherwise is idiotic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933356) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:47 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse Why, brother? Can you provide a couple cogent reasons to buttress your argument? I am naturally sympathetic to your claim. Thanks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933366) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:50 PM Author: Hyperventilating Cobalt Background Story Economies are depressed by lack of investment or lack of demand. Interest rates are 0 so it ain't lack of investment. Consumers won't spend because they are fearful they will lose their jobs, which depresses the economy more. We are now in a vicious cycle. Luckily the government has a printing press and can get roads and shit built that we are going to need in the future anyway to stimulate demand. This deficit spending is fine if you have Medicare death panels in place in the future. Dems have been completely unserious about that though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933378) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:51 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse What about the broken glass fallacy, brother? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933385) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:54 PM Author: Hyperventilating Cobalt Background Story Productivity improvements help everyone. That glassmaker can move on to more produtive profession. We could have full employment if we went Pol Pot and swung scythes in the wheat fields, but that would be dumb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933405) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:00 PM Author: bistre juggernaut hires dude to dig ditch than cover it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933441) |
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Date: February 11th, 2012 11:33 AM Author: Silver meetinghouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19942465) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:57 PM Author: talented duck-like potus rehab death panels or actually tax billionaires. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933417) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:59 PM Author: bistre juggernaut or how about we stop giving free shit to poors who don't work and commit crimes? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933436) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:25 PM Author: cordovan contagious resort quadroon so fucking tired of this conservative bogeyman. you think all 300,000 people who make new unemployment claims every fucking week are criminals who don't work? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933579) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 12:09 AM Author: Gold Set Useless Brakes tcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19934968) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 9:42 AM Author: Sienna milk center That's not what he said shitlib (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936400) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:47 PM Author: Laughsome honey-headed faggot firefighter home MFE (not sarcasm) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933369) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:50 PM Author: bistre juggernaut I hate Keynes esp. on full employment, but if you think we need austerity now that's insane.
Thoughts on social credit? I saw a refernce to it in Keynes and now I'm going on a SC/guild soc binge |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:53 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse Thoughts on Krugman's economics? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933398) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:54 PM Author: bistre juggernaut As an economist, he's a great writer
Kidding aside, as far as NYT Op/ed columnists go, he borders on tolerable. |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:55 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse Example? Also, are you opposed to a social safety net? Do you think conservatives are right for calling for the elimination of things like TANF? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933406) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:59 PM Author: bistre juggernaut He's a proponent of hudson river school economics e.g. Bizarro Laffer.
Safety net, no, not at all. Fine with that. Universal HC too. Free shit for people who have no intention of working and commit crimes, that I tend to oppose.
I have mixed feelings on TANF. I'll tell you where we do cut - schools in urban neighborhoods and BOOMER pensions. Sentry turret for the former, death panels for the latter. |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:01 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse What explains the persistence of poverty in America? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933451) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:02 PM Author: bistre juggernaut The identity politics game and American black culture as a whole (though it's not just blacks).
Specifically, if you mean the Gini, we can never adequately institute socialism because of cultural and ethnic heterogeneity more broadly. Look at european countries with high Gini and strong (not communistic) socialisms. All scandanavian. All collectivistic. All one race/culture.
God forbid I ever say that in public though. |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:20 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse Why is healthcare free in the Scandinavian countries? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933553) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 5:02 PM Author: Rose aphrodisiac volcanic crater The explanation is cultural. They'd rather have more benefits and pay for them than less benefits and more takehome. However, the Scandinavian paradise is fading due to an influx of immigrants flooding the entitlement system. natural born swedes don't want to pay for immigrant benefits. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19938334) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:30 PM Author: Zombie-like Associate Factory Reset Button Racial inequality and its cumulative nature certainly are at play here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933603) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 6:46 AM Author: Rusted overrated base because poverty is a social construct. the poors in America are doing quite well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936130) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 12:24 PM Author: Arousing Yellow Genital Piercing Ladyboy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936925) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:55 PM Author: Hyperventilating Cobalt Background Story His support for unions in nauseating but otherwise good. Give him credit for ripping Bush from day 1. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933409) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:59 PM Author: bistre juggernaut I'm a fan of his union support. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933432) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:08 PM Author: Hyperventilating Cobalt Background Story (mafia) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933497) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:00 PM Author: adventurous vermilion trump supporter theatre you just make things up. you don't know what you are talking about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933439) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 8:47 PM Author: Hyperventilating Cobalt Background Story Bad idea if you don't cut spending in the future. Dems made it clear they won't cut Medicare ever, even when it's 20% of GDP. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933367) |
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Date: April 17th, 2012 6:08 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#20484438) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:07 PM Author: chrome depressive university it's just gone too far. dems these days act like every economic problem can be solved w/ some government spending. how's japan, greece doing with that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933483) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:13 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse Ummmm..austerity measures (slashing important social safety net benchmarks) has caused immense social upheaval and increase in poverty. its not helping in Greece. They should have spent more. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933522) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:20 PM Author: Insanely Creepy Vigorous Church *defaults* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933558) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:21 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse thoughts on Keynesian economics? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933560) |
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Date: February 9th, 2012 9:47 PM Author: Insanely Creepy Vigorous Church i'm dumb, dooder. hence the one-liner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19933711) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 7:33 AM Author: Cerebral space hissy fit "they should have spent more"
yeah, they've been spending like there's no tomorrow for years. that's why greece has the largest debt relative to GDP in the entire world. their ridiculous spending was what got them into this mess in the first place. spending MOAR, especially when they're about to default by the bunches, is retarded. you seem dumb. |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 9:45 AM Author: Silver meetinghouse http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/business/global/breakthrough-on-austerity-cuts-clears-way-for-greek-deal.html?_r=1&ref=world
In a highly political climate ahead of elections expected as early as April, the leaders agreed to a range of unpopular measures, including cutting the minimum wage on which all private-sector contracts are based by 22 percent — 30 percent for workers under 25. This in a country where average wages have dropped 15 percent since 2009, after having risen by that amount in the relatively prosperous years between 2004 and 2009, according to a study by the Bank of Greece.
They also agreed to shorten the terms of collective bargaining agreements, freeze private sector salary increases until unemployment drops below 10 percent from its current 19 percent, loosen job protections in the public sector and by the end of 2015 cut 150,000 jobs from the government payroll of 800,000. |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 9:47 AM Author: Sienna milk center What's you point? Overpaid workers got pay cuts? Stupid shitlib. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936417) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 9:49 AM Author: Silver meetinghouse reduction of minimum wage and the social safety net, translate into a greater number of Greeks descending into a state of poverty and destitution. How the fuck is that rejuvenating the economy, tard? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936426) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 9:54 AM Author: Fiercely-loyal point selfie You need to understand something: The debt-fueled binge up until 2009 was unsustanable. A drop in the wages and standards of living of most people has to come in order to cleanse the system. The question is whether you want it to be short or pro-longed, 1921 or 1929, you tell me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936436) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 9:58 AM Author: Silver meetinghouse Why do we have to cut into social safety net basics (like minimum wage)? Why not require the Greeks cut military spending or reduce its spiraling bureaucratic infrastructure? Why do we have to harm the ordinary citizen? What ever happened to justice? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936444) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:01 AM Author: Fiercely-loyal point selfie First, for anyone who is not an economic illterate, the min wage does nothing but hurt the lower classes. It is a tool used by unions to boolster their own power at the expense of unskilled labour. Maybe pick Healthcare or something next time.
The perfect video for an eco-newbie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFbYM2EDz40
Second, you will not find me disputing the cutting of military spending, but I think that for Greece, it is the social shit that is killing them (unlike in America, where military spending is indeed a tangible drain).
Finally, do not throw words like "justice" around. Unless you define them, they are meaningless emotionally-loaded terms. |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:04 AM Author: Silver meetinghouse Can you talk about military spending in America? Does it have an economic stimulus by giving ordinary Americans work? What about the military industrial complex? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936461) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:08 AM Author: Fiercely-loyal point selfie Gov't spending is never a "stimulus" because it has to suck up the resources from someone/somwhere else. Infact it is the opposite because the gov't tends to be horribly inefficient with how to utilizes these resources ($600 toliet seats anyone?). I am on the fence about which is worse, social or military spending. Both are far worse than if the gov't just used taxpayer money to dig and re-fill ditches. With military spending, you blow the money, but you also anger alot of people around the world. With Social spending, you blow the money, but you also subsidize and encourage non-production and poverty. Tough call. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936470) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:10 AM Author: Silver meetinghouse So do you think it's the government's duty to address poverty and income inequality? How can inanimate market forces rectify unjust distributions of wealth? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936482) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:18 AM Author: Sienna milk center Inanimate market forces have enriched Chinese living in poverty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936502) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:19 AM Author: Silver meetinghouse sOURCE? There are millions of Chinese people still in poverty. Abject poverty? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936506) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:40 AM Author: Sienna milk center Have you been living under a rock for 20 years? If you're too stupid to see or google Econ data on how many people have been lifted out of poverty In china due to global capitalism, I'm not going to continue this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936575) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:46 AM Author: Silver meetinghouse China has about 150 million people living below the United Nations poverty line of one US dollar a day. [ Wikipedia “Income Inequality in China”; China Development Research Foundation Feb 2011 report ]
Nearly 500 million Chinese people live on less than $2 a day. [ BBC News “Millions 'left behind' in rural China” May 12, 2010 ]
85% of China’s poor live in rural areas, with about 66% concentrated in the country’s west. [China Development Research Foundation Feb 2011 report ]
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:55 AM Author: Sienna milk center You're stupid or a troll. These numbers are an amazing improvement over what it was 30 years ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936638) |
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Date: April 26th, 2017 9:12 PM Author: Lascivious coral fortuitous meteor et tu randy? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#33171199) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:19 AM Author: Fiercely-loyal point selfie "unjust distributions"
I do not know what this is. Stop just throwing around words like that. |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:24 AM Author: Silver meetinghouse Where do you stand on the issue of income inequality? Do you think it is a natural result of inanimate market forces? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936523) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 11:01 AM Author: Fiercely-loyal point selfie a) Market forces are not "inanimate" the market is each and every one of us. It is organic.
b) My stand on income inequality is the same as my stand on height inequality or weight inequality; So, what? |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:14 AM Author: Sienna milk center I usually agree with you but if govt spending was zero, I would say building a DEFENSIVE military, court systems to enforce contracts, and a police force would be a stimulus. Agreed, at this level of spending, no more spending is stimulative, and counter-productive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936490) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 10:18 AM Author: Fiercely-loyal point selfie Yea, the dicussion is in the context of gov't social programs and such, not the justice system. Many good people would agree with your opinion re: Gov't expenditure on courts/police/defense as being legitimate and helpful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936503) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 3:19 PM Author: Rose aphrodisiac volcanic crater I think u and I are bros, bro. SSM hasn't read Bastiat, though.. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19937867) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 4:31 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse Yes I have, brother. I've read the broken window fallacy argument vis a vis Iraq War 2003. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19938178) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 4:57 PM Author: Rose aphrodisiac volcanic crater "hasn't read bastiat." your familiarity w one of his better known contributions doesn't mean anything. Have you read economic sophisms or the law? Guaranteedly the answer is no, because if it were yes, this thread wouldn't exist. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19938320) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 5:01 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse How do you see the relevance of the broken window fallacy to the Iraq War 2003? Thanks
No, I've never read those works. Can you recommend which one? |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 5:06 PM Author: Rose aphrodisiac volcanic crater We probs agree on the broken window fallacy and the relevance to the Iraq war is self apparent brother. I'd recommend the law, or Hazlitt who draws influence from bastiat and is eminently readable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19938340) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 5:09 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse who is your intellectual godfather, brother? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19938351) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 5:12 PM Author: Rose aphrodisiac volcanic crater Dr. Seuss (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19938367) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 5:13 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse 180, brother.
I seriously meant it.
Mine is Theodoro Adorno and Antonio Gramsci. |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 5:29 PM Author: Rose aphrodisiac volcanic crater Cannot most of the world's ills be more effectively examined through the lens of Seussian axioms? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19938452) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 5:31 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse Give an example for illustration purposes? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19938470) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 5:35 PM Author: Rose aphrodisiac volcanic crater On the issue of genocide: "A person's a person, no matter how small." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19938496) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 5:35 PM Author: Silver meetinghouse Thoughts on Gramsci? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19938499) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 5:37 PM Author: Rose aphrodisiac volcanic crater "One fish two fish red fish blue fish." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19938506) |
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Date: June 14th, 2012 8:09 AM Author: Silver meetinghouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#20885578) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 9:45 AM Author: Sienna milk center When you take candy away from children, they get mad shitlib. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19936413) |
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Date: February 10th, 2012 3:20 PM Author: glassy comical hall can i make a joke about how i dont take economic advice from the lead singer of tool (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19937875) |
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Date: February 11th, 2012 11:36 AM Author: heady pink french chef Most conservatives who claim to be anti-Keynesian are advocates of tax cuts as a form of economic stimulus, which is Keynesian. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1869920&forum_id=2#19942474) |