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how do you combat extreme biglaw boredom?
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:41 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook 4th year V10 associate here. Constantly bored. Soul crushed. No motivation. Could care less about my hours. How do you combat? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074071) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:41 PM Author: Twinkling beady-eyed set watch netflix (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074072) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:42 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook well im on imgur all day...question isnt so much how do i occupy my time...more like, how do i defeat boredom and reengage with the work (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074078) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:50 PM Author: Twinkling beady-eyed set why would you want to? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074119) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:52 PM Author: well-lubricated odious organic girlfriend gas station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074130) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:53 PM Author: floppy goal in life spot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074134) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:59 PM Author: Ruddy church building coldplay fan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074537) |
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Date: January 8th, 2015 10:42 AM Author: histrionic legal warrant nursing home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27078856) |
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Date: March 2nd, 2015 3:03 PM Author: Alcoholic big church private investor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27417189) |
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Date: April 12th, 2015 1:25 PM Author: Scarlet property (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27675997) |
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Date: April 29th, 2015 4:36 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27787138) |
Date: January 7th, 2015 3:43 PM Author: Crusty faggotry Start playing pranks around the office (e.g. poop on the bathroom floor and plant a tiny American flag in it, put a plant in the middle of the hallway so that people have to walk around it, close people's doors when they step out of their office momentarily) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074082) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:44 PM Author: fragrant lemon filthpig trailer park you don't. enjoy severance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074089) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:53 PM Author: floppy goal in life spot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074138) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:50 PM Author: onyx vibrant menage Have you spent all four years at the same firm? If so, that gives you some time to coast and rely on your internal reputation. Start talking to recruiters and see what else is out there. As a guy who made it six years with one biglaw firm, believe me I know: Once the complete apathy kicks in, there is no going back. It's only a matter of time before you start making mistakes. Jump before you get pushed but don't rush-- you probably have at least a year and most likely even more. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074122) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:54 PM Author: floppy goal in life spot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074140) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:55 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook nope lateralled about 6 months ago, thought the change of scenery would give me a boost...yeah that lasted about a month...now back to grinding out rogs that take me 3 days but can only reasonably bill 2-3 hours without raising a red flag... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074145) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:55 PM Author: Twinkling beady-eyed set can you get on some doc review? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074151) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:57 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook i am/was/will be...but thats even worse...8 hrs of reading/summarizing emails...research and writing assignments are really the only thing that interest me, but they come along too infrequently... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074164) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:59 PM Author: Twinkling beady-eyed set just watch tons of netflix while half-assedly doing doc review that you inflate hours for by 2 or 3x. you'd essentially be doing the same thing (and would be just as depressed) if you you were unemployed.
why are you trying to 'engage' or be 'interested in' an intrinsically dumb, unengaging job? |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:01 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook both good points... yea i dunno i mean im a 'think positive' kind of person so try to see the bright side, which is tough... i mean alternative to re-engaging i guess is to just, as you say and as I've been doing, do the bare minimum to not get fired for another year or two then go be unemployed for a bit then try to get a new gig... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074189) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:05 PM Author: Twinkling beady-eyed set sounds like you should be putting your optimism and energy into thinking of some job or lifestyle that would make you happier (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074205) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:07 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook agreed...in the long term....but just lateralled 6 months ago...want to at least make it a year or two...my point is more about short term (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074220) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:02 PM Author: onyx vibrant menage Fuck.
Okay, so in my experience, associates who won't bill too much "because it will raise a red flag" are being far, far too conservative (imagine that, in this profession, right?). Have you ever actually been called out for overbilling at this place? If not, bill more to that task and see what happens. Surely you can come up with something to be doing that will meet with partner approval-- like, before you construct your rogs, don't you think you should review relevant SEC filings and rogs in other recent cases? Did you review local rules and rules of the local court to make sure there's no surprises/changes? Double-check any relevant case law? Etc. The key is to have an answer right away if anybody asks you about it-- obviously, don't try to construct something on the spot.
Partners are obnoxious about being thorough, but the flip side is that so long as you meet deadlines, they'll rarely call you out for being TOO thorough. |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:05 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook all good points-- yes i do this...believe me, i'm not being too conservative...im a strong proponent of associates not cutting their hours...if rogs take mad long, you should bill that time...if the partner wants to cut it let her...i'm talking about extreme overages...as in, you could go to law school pass the bar and write these rogs quicker than i did... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074207) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:13 PM Author: onyx vibrant menage Okay, well shit then. Be sure to record all your time, but if you're this burned out then it's unlikely you'll get it back. You've burned your 20's on law school and biglaw, sounds like it's time to move on. How debtfucked are you right now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074255) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:15 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook between my very nice parents, solid scholarships and own contributions im pretty much free and clear at this point...but still gotta pay rent and shit
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:21 PM Author: onyx vibrant menage Okay man, then believe it or not you are better off than most fourth year associates. Honestly, most fourth years are going to be gone from biglaw in a year or two anyway; you have a step up on them because (i) you know it's happening and (ii) you'll leave without having to worry about debt. It just sounds like the law firm lifestyle is not for you, which doesn't make you anything but normal. You were able to lateral once six months ago, so it seems like you know how the interview game works. When you go in-house or to some other job, you can very easily say, "I thought I wasn't happy at my first firm, but it turns out it's just law firms. I'm much more excited about this opportunity because (reasons why newjerb is different than a law firm.") You have the credentials to be at a V10 after lateraling from what was presumably another V10, so I'd say there's a good chance you'll maek it. Good luck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074303) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:28 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook well, that was a very helpful and constructive response...i appreciate it...yea i mean i dont mean to be a little whiny bitch...im genuinely looking for ways to improve...but you are right-- if its a bad match it is what it is and it may be (not right now but sometime in 2015) time to move on... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074343) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:09 PM Author: Twinkling beady-eyed set fuck, i billed 3 200hr/mos of doc review i never actually did, and didn't get fired or even have anybody bring it up (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074231) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:10 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074235) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:40 PM Author: Demanding cream national security agency therapy I don't think I have ever not done this in a month where I billed good hours. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074410) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:53 PM Author: Thriller nowag boiling water 2nd year here. Hi me.
So whats the end game? I'm struggling to bill more than 4-5 hours a day right now. How much can I coast with this before being DONE HERE? |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:54 PM Author: floppy goal in life spot u have until the end of ur 3rd year. not flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074143) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:57 PM Author: Thriller nowag boiling water ty ty ty. This poast gives me HOAP (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074163) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:59 PM Author: floppy goal in life spot someone will come in here and say "durrr i herad of a 2nd year getting shit canned once" but it's like 1 in a 1000. u r bulletproof up to year 3. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074173) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:04 PM Author: onyx vibrant menage CR. It takes a large amount of fuck-up to get fired as a second year-- like, "sexually harass the secretary" levels of fuck-up. That being said, it's much harder for a 3rd year to lateral (or at least it was in my day, it could be easier now), so it may be worth trying to hang on longer to develop exit opportunities. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074201) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:26 PM Author: fragrant lemon filthpig trailer park 3rd years lateral all the time. 1st and 2nd years get shitchanned all the time too. you guys are clueless. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074332) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:57 PM Author: floppy goal in life spot Lol. Ur second sentence is such bullshit. U Have no idea what's going on around u (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074525) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:53 PM Author: maize coiffed candlestick maker incel Bang your head against your desk until your IQ falls to 115. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074132) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:55 PM Author: fragrant lemon filthpig trailer park cr, the sweet spot for IQ in biglaw is about 105-125. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074149) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 3:55 PM Author: 180 honey-headed son of senegal station perhaps it is time to heed the call of Islam (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074146) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:04 PM Author: Painfully honest patrolman I quit my job and smoked alot of weed (TBF: I smoked alot of weed before I quit). Drinking helped, too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074196) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:06 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook yea weed and drinking all night every night....not to mention other extracurriculars...but then what (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074211) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:18 PM Author: Painfully honest patrolman watch movies, poast here, other hobbies HSFB, boxing, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074281) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:19 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook sounds awesome (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074286) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:43 PM Author: chartreuse center electric furnace (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074429) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:47 PM Author: shaky office Lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074456) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:19 PM Author: Bespoke Fortuitous Meteor you should never be bored, bro - you should always be developing and expanding your portable book of business, meeting existing and prospective clients, etc. become a rainmaker. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074285) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:21 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook dammit why didnt i think of that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074299) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:21 PM Author: Tan chad locus Option 1: Become so indispensable to a case/project/partner that you become too overwhelmed with responsibility to have the time to be bored/lazy.
Option 2: Quit
The work isn't going to magically become less soul crushing because you set your mind to it.
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:24 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook yea ive been in boat number one before...it's almost better in some ways...but i mean is there no motivational technique to make it just a little better? im not asking for a miracle just a few helpful nudges in the right direction
option 2 is my plan medium/long term...i have no interest in partner track...but i dont wanna just up and quit just yet |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:25 PM Author: onyx vibrant menage When's the last time you took a vacation and how long was it? A week long bender when you're slow anyway may help. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074326) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:30 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook i tend to take short vacations-- just did 4 days in mexico in december...doing 2 days in florida this month...2 days in vermont february...and i basically spent all of xmas/new years drinking with my buddies...its not so much about stress, for me (though thats an issue too), more about motivation to get my shit done (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074354) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:41 PM Author: Tan chad locus I think you have low-T (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074420) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:43 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074432) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:32 PM Author: Ocher disturbing messiness Hold on a sec, you only bill 2-3 hours for a whole set of rogs? You can do more than that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074363) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:34 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook ha true no that was an extreme underestimate-- prob will bill more like 15 hrs, but havent really decided yet.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074373) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:37 PM Author: Thriller nowag boiling water Interestingly enough, asbestos / product liablity rogs are copy and paste and only take 2-3 hours most of the time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074392) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:36 PM Author: wonderful yarmulke orchestra pit things i did to pass time:
apply to in-house jobs
watch netflix/hulu
online shop
surf the net generally
go to restaurants downstairs on random afternoons
go to the gym |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:36 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook and now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074389) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:39 PM Author: wonderful yarmulke orchestra pit livin da 9-6 in-house dream.
i did search for in-house jobs for about 2.5 years though. start now.
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:40 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook is it really that much better? r u in a litigation role? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074417) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:50 PM Author: wonderful yarmulke orchestra pit maybe 25% lit now, 75% corp. legal work is never going to be sexy or interesting. what i do now is not more interesting than i did before from a substantive perspective, but it is about 1000% times better.
the main issues i had w/ biglaw was billing and the lack of job security. you could never enjoy a slow week or month b/c you knew the partners were looking at your hours and wondering if this is when they're going to fire you.
taking your example on drafting rogs, i don't have to account for my hours and stress about whether billing 15 hours on them is acceptable. hell, i might not even spend 2 hours on it and nobody will give a shit as long as i get it done on time. your QOL improves massively once you're no longer subject to billing. |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:52 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook i agree-- i feel like without billing you could shrug off a lot of the other negatives... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074488) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:49 PM Author: shaky office You people watching Netflix at work make me feel a lot better about cruising xoxo on my iphone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074465) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 4:58 PM Author: mind-boggling home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27074529) |
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Date: January 7th, 2015 9:02 PM Author: Hairraiser Indigo Bawdyhouse Impregnate your wife. 9 months later you get a totally 180 2 weeks off where you just have to answer emails and deal with guilt about "slacking." I am in day 3 of this now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27075926) |
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Date: January 8th, 2015 1:23 AM Author: naked lime kitty cat elastic band Describe
Also, just 2 weeks? |
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Date: January 8th, 2015 2:54 AM Author: onyx vibrant menage Same thing happened to a friend of mine who was a 2nd year at the time-- two days after the birth of his first child, he was getting email requests to do things like priv logs and discrete research assignments. They didn't explicitly tell him not to take his paternity leave, but they did say things like, "We're really all hands on deck here, so if you could work on this we would really appreciate it. Team players are what we really need here." Long story short, he ended up taking three days, then coming right back to work. Then bonus season rolled around and he got either no-bonus-pwned. LJL at 2009. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27077899) |
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Date: January 8th, 2015 1:34 AM Author: puce twinkling uncleanness brunch Go inhouse. Best case you land a good job and you get to filter out the most boring parts of practice and boss around outside counsel a lot. Worst case it's still much easier to slack inhouse than at a firm in almost all cases, and that gives you a longer runway to plot a bigger career shift, plus contacts in "the business" that will be way more useful as a network, sounding board, etc. to make it happen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27077628) |
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Date: January 8th, 2015 2:09 AM Author: trip idiotic cruise ship really liked this thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27077756) |
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Date: January 8th, 2015 9:10 AM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27078530) |
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Date: March 2nd, 2015 3:01 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27417182) |
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Date: April 13th, 2015 2:19 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27682590) |
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Date: May 27th, 2015 1:29 PM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#27974325) |
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Date: June 1st, 2015 9:43 AM Author: Lavender heaven travel guidebook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#28011703) |
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Date: July 21st, 2020 5:31 PM Author: yellow sound barrier theater stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2777013&forum_id=2#40641013) |