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Was the reason xo 2004 cared about biglaw was b/c they weren't biglaw attys yet?
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Date: August 31st, 2015 1:30 AM Author: exhilarant self-absorbed church people who are hurt Would make sense. They literally spent hours and hours glorifying biglaw, but as inexperienced law students. Then once they became biglawyers, realized it was all flame and discovered that all their grinding was a waste of time. They neglected friends and family for nothing. Hence, we have xo 2015 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28659117) |
Date: August 31st, 2015 7:15 AM Author: Arousing claret business firm toaster It was the sheer goddamn fucking prestige and power that all attorneys, I mean, LAWyers have. They know the LAW. They can do ANYTHING. They are MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE.
They are definitely NOT poli-sci shithead douchebags, no sireee, no way. |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 7:37 AM Author: startled nubile french chef love of her life 160k sounded like an amazing amount of money to me then. Still does really for a 25 yo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28659824) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 8:31 AM Author: Crimson Supple Market Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28659863) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 10:30 AM Author: Wine personal credit line volcanic crater NYC to $160K!!!111
I still remember that like it was yesterday. |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 10:37 AM Author: flushed effete stage There was also a solid year in there where there was a post on the main page reading "NYC to 190!" pretty much every day. Doubt we'll see NYC to 190 by 2020. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28660287) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 10:40 AM Author: Wine personal credit line volcanic crater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28660311) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 10:38 AM Author: topaz bearded space I didn't think it was possible to feel nostalgic for speculation about salary increases, but apparently it is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28660294) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 9:27 AM Author: topaz bearded space The following list is subjective and I'd be interested to hear what other people who have been around for that long have to say. In no particular order, I view these as the major factors:
1) The naivete of youth. People are generally more optimistic when young. "Just bill 2200 for 8 years" sounds much more feasible before one has worked a real job. We're all older now and most of us care more about non-work pursuits. The "prestige" of being a partner at a top seven M&A firm doesn't really compare to having a life. 2) The 2008 crash destroyed a lot of optimism about the stability of the economy in general. Sure, there was 9/11 and the .com crash before it, but 2008 fundamentally meant that a legion of biglawyers lost their jobs due to circumstances completely beyond their control. Before this, biglaw was viewed as safe-ish with the worst case scenario being going in-house after a few years. 3) Relatedly, 2008 actually made biglaw worse. Biglaw firms did a bunch of shit that screwed over their associates and paid no recruitment cost for it. Quite the opposite-- biglaw firms in the rear end of the V50 were able to recruit from the ivies. The economy has greatly improved, but the taboos are gone and not coming back. 4) The internet was still in its infancy. The notion of comparing salary information on Greedy Associates was still somewhat novel. This meant that there was no easy way for jaded 5th year associates to spread their experience to 1st year associates at different firms. Think about how much you know about biglaw is informed by XO and other forums-- we didn't have any of that at the time.
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Date: August 31st, 2015 10:26 AM Author: flushed effete stage This is a good list. I joined around 2005, and there was definitely a sense that the biglaw lifestyle sucks, but the notion that it was a very safe choice prevailed.
Remember, in 2004, pretty much all 1500 students graduating from GULC every year were guaranteed biglaw. Something like half the market paying biglaw jobs disappeared in 2009. And although the market has improved, those jobs haven't really come back. |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 10:37 AM Author: topaz bearded space I have a limited sense of what the market is like for fresh graduates, since I'm an inhouse bro now and we don't recruit out of law school. But yeah, the "demand" side of the equation is definitely relevant here. Law school is more expensive, one of the only good outcomes is harder to get, and if you do get it, it's not as good of an outcome as it used to be. It's no wonder that law school applications are so sharply down. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28660288) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 10:45 AM Author: Racy Fluffy Wagecucks 2008 was fucked. Cravath used to literally do a champagne and caviar event for summers before that. it was just decadent. the move from $130K to $145K to $160K happened between 2004 and 2008.
then 2008 hit, and all optimism was lost. people got lathamed. summers were getting no offered for the first time ever. we had Estradas depression threading, people afraid of losing their jobs. 2008 to 2012 was dismal for law students. if you graduated in 2010 or 2011, you were fucked. if you had a job, you were afraid of losing it, afraid of making hours. |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 11:49 AM Author: topaz bearded space Agreed. I'm not complaining-- I was very lucky by the standards of the day, getting in before the worst of the crisis and lasting for six years-- but the gestalt went from "we're all going to maek it" to "ONE WRONG MOVE." It's all a blur, but I would actually be really interested to know when the latter meme started-- I suspect it was during the crisis. There was a lot of nervous energy people burned by flaming about getting fired for frivolous reasons (e.g., "Wore a red tie to a deposition, everybody else was wearing blue. How many weeks severance will I get?"). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28660649) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 1:45 PM Author: tripping genital piercing institution ONE WRONG MOVE was influenced by the post-crash malaise, but was from a separate series of problems (my own) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28661482) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 1:17 PM Author: French crawly shitlib gunner Did you guys have the Benjamin Franklin bonfire at your firm where the summers just lit $100k in $100's on fire while drinking artisanal drinks? That was my favorite event in 2004. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28661274) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 1:10 PM Author: exhilarant self-absorbed church people who are hurt 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28661226) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 9:29 AM Author: fuchsia awkward hospital brethren have any xo 2015 posters been near biglaw, or near employment, for that matter? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28659997) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 10:38 AM Author: Racy Fluffy Wagecucks doobs stood outside the Cravath building (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28660299) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 11:36 PM Author: Low-t godawful theater stage messiness (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28665260) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 10:40 AM Author: startled nubile french chef love of her life ive been a biglolyer for far longer than i care to admit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28660308) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 9:08 AM Author: Brindle concupiscible rehab boltzmann I've accepted a job at a ttt biglaw firm that doesn't pay lockstep. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28687078) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 1:25 PM Author: at-the-ready yellow coffee pot Doesn't everybody care about Biglaw until they're actually in it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28661342) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 1:47 PM Author: aromatic salmon laser beams Biglaw staff attorney position is 180 tho. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28661493) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 1:54 PM Author: amethyst dilemma juggernaut the legal system is bullshit, it brainwashes you that BIGLAW is the only credited path to "practice" law---- the irony of course being that you never really are pracitcing anything in BIGLAW as an associate, you're just a overpaid document monkey. Fuck this profession. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28661527) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 1:55 PM Author: French crawly shitlib gunner TBF, it is a good way to learn how to practice law if you can stick around for a few years past the document review stage. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28661533) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 11:42 PM Author: wonderful famous landscape painting moving up to supervising others doing the doc review isn't practicing either. hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28665304) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 11:46 PM Author: Cordovan Mad Cow Disease I never really got past the doc review stage after several years and went in house. Have constant meetings with faggot biglaw partners repping their client companies. Have literally never had a non partner come to a meeting opposite me. Not sure how you're saying non partner lawyers learn how to be lawyers. But maybe it's different in your experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28665344) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 11:47 PM Author: French crawly shitlib gunner is this litigation? I don't know about that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28665355) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 11:51 PM Author: Cordovan Mad Cow Disease Some lit, mostly like leases land sales and permits and stuff that my company procures. 100% of the time I meet with outside counsel it has been a partner, and while they're not all mega firms, many of them are v50s. Not sure what 5th to 7th year attorneys even do but it certainly isn't client contact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28665385) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 11:56 PM Author: French crawly shitlib gunner When I was a 5-7th year I had more "client contact" than anyone could ever want....way too fucking much. I missed the days when I could just send shit to partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28665404) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 11:47 PM Author: flushed effete stage I don't know how much legit doc review is done by attorneys in biglaw anymore. The work you do is obviously still shit, but not doc review. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2977256&forum_id=2#28665352) |
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Date: August 31st, 2015 11:44 PM Author: henna idiot hunting ground XO 2004 was all about the college bort
xoxo hth |