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Arizona Summit: The Worst Law School in America?

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/05/law-school-completely-derails...
Cracking milky space
  05/20/16
LSAT percentiles for Fall 2015 class: 25th: 140 (~37 ques...
Cracking milky space
  05/20/16
i think i got a 156 on a cold practice test with zero prep w...
Glittery Cream Trailer Park
  05/20/16
You probably could have gotten some money from Arizona Summi...
Cracking milky space
  05/20/16
their median GPA is like 2.8 also. it would be pretty 180...
Glittery Cream Trailer Park
  05/20/16
(Saul Goodman)
Purple Shitlib
  05/20/16
Go Land Crabs!
Cracking milky space
  05/20/16
...
Burgundy State
  10/17/17
Unwitting humblepwn
vigorous chapel multi-billionaire
  10/20/16
...
Dashing arrogant halford
  06/23/17
omfg at accepting anyone with a 140.
180 stain
  05/20/16
"What was your score?" "Better than chance...
Cracking milky space
  05/20/16
My law school just hired an Arizona Summit law grad as an of...
multi-colored sound barrier
  05/20/16
Seems about right.
Cracking milky space
  05/20/16
(Arizona Summit Law school student)
walnut milk
  08/16/16
...
exhilarant mewling cruise ship internal respiration
  08/17/16
...
swollen spectacular theater stage
  03/29/17
...
Stubborn digit ratio factory reset button
  05/25/18
How evil are the professors who are complicit in the dry ass...
Cracking milky space
  05/20/16
tbf those profs are probably barely employable themselves
180 stain
  05/20/16
...
diverse garrison
  05/20/16
Meh -- there are a TON of sleazy bullshit industries.
transparent stag film rigor
  05/20/16
So are you saying they're just little Eichmanns?
Cracking milky space
  05/20/16
I'm saying we're all scumbags.
transparent stag film rigor
  05/20/16
Touro is the worst
useless slap-happy orchestra pit hunting ground
  05/20/16
Go on.
Cracking milky space
  05/20/16
Fucksberg College of Law
swollen spectacular theater stage
  06/17/16
they still run old school confidence schemes in arizona.
Painfully Honest Trump Supporter Forum
  05/20/16
...
diverse garrison
  05/20/16
...
Cracking milky space
  06/17/16
In the opinion of xo, what is the bottom lsat-score for bein...
copper brunch feces
  06/17/16
155-160
Thriller Police Squad
  06/17/16
percentile?
copper brunch feces
  06/17/16
...
diverse garrison
  06/17/16
of test takers or of those admitted to law schools?
copper brunch feces
  06/17/16
Lawyer, 151 Judge, 167
swollen spectacular theater stage
  06/17/16
can it be worse than Thomas Jefferson? 'cause that school is...
hairraiser shrine psychic
  06/17/16
so, as an lsat score of 155-160/75-80 percentile is necessar...
copper brunch feces
  06/17/16
I think you need at least 160 to be decent. There are lots o...
Razzle Dull Property Chad
  06/17/16
it takes around a 75-80% MCAT score to be admitted to any US...
citrine swashbuckling tanning salon
  10/18/17
Lol, it's a fucking UBE state. So it's not even like how ra...
sinister big-titted address
  06/17/16
(Hillary Clinton) nvm it was the DC bar she failed, carry...
Supple haunted graveyard
  03/29/17
Failing, For-Profit Law School Announces Plans To Affiliate ...
Cracking milky space
  08/16/16
People's College of Law if it still exists is the worst
dun racy institution
  08/16/16
yeah but PCOL is like 4000 bucks a year while Arizona Summit...
vibrant den
  08/17/16
The ABA allows for profit law schools?
metal adventurous business firm
  08/17/16
where do they fall on the cooley rankings?
balding nowag
  08/17/16
plz look into this. thank
Cracking milky space
  10/20/16
UPDATE: First-time pass rate now under 25% http://aboveth...
Cracking milky space
  10/18/16
Boomers gonna boom The law school now requires that all s...
Filthy Famous Landscape Painting Meetinghouse
  10/20/16
Are law school graduation rates published like they are for ...
Cracking milky space
  10/20/16
ABA puts Arizona Summit on probation because of its pure shi...
Cracking milky space
  03/29/17
isn't Cooley the worst?
Supple haunted graveyard
  03/29/17
It was the quintessential TTT school in the old PR/XO days. ...
Cracking milky space
  10/17/17
I actually know one of these grads but she graduated a numbe...
drab yarmulke foreskin
  03/29/17
Job listing for a new dean. https://www.indeed.com/viewjo...
Cracking milky space
  06/23/17
list line is amazing. Have they hired anyone yet?
Plum Beady-eyed Jewess
  10/17/17
I think I'll apply. I have experience in the education secto...
floppy sick hell
  10/17/17
https://abovethelaw.com/2017/10/this-law-schools-bar-exam-pa...
Cracking milky space
  10/17/17
how tough is the AZ bar
metal adventurous business firm
  10/17/17
Probably in the fat middle.
Cracking milky space
  10/18/17
Arizona Summit now suing the ABA for being unfair. http:/...
Cracking milky space
  05/25/18
...
Onyx degenerate office
  06/11/18
on a good day can someone randomly guess a 140 without even ...
Appetizing Umber Mexican
  06/11/18
ABA: "Following the May 10, 2018, appearance of Ariz...
Cracking milky space
  06/11/18
Fall 2016 140 143 148 2.55 2.96 3.31 NON-DISCOUNTED COST ...
swollen spectacular theater stage
  06/11/18
31.8% get legal jobs. That's $781,270 in education costs ...
Cracking milky space
  06/11/18
the lawsuit just got ten feet higher!
Plum Beady-eyed Jewess
  06/11/18
i've met only one grad of the following schools and was conv...
Painfully Honest Trump Supporter Forum
  06/11/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:08 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/05/law-school-completely-derails-states-bar-exam-passage-rate/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520343)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:12 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

LSAT percentiles for Fall 2015 class:

25th: 140 (~37 questions out of 101, ~13th percentile)

50th: 143 (~42 questions out of 101, ~20th percentile)

75th: 148 (~50 questions out of 101, ~36th percentile)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520374)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:14 PM
Author: Glittery Cream Trailer Park

i think i got a 156 on a cold practice test with zero prep when i was first curious about LS

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520387)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:19 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

You probably could have gotten some money from Arizona Summit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520434)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:24 PM
Author: Glittery Cream Trailer Park

their median GPA is like 2.8 also.

it would be pretty 180 if you knew say, junior year of undergrad that you had a GUARANTEED career, all you needed was to pass the bar. you could party the last two years of UG, take the LSAT hungover, get money from Arizona Summit, fuck hot AZ girls for three years, then get it together and pass the bar

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520483)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:25 PM
Author: Purple Shitlib

(Saul Goodman)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520491)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:26 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

Go Land Crabs!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520499)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 1:27 PM
Author: Burgundy State



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462985)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 20th, 2016 5:17 PM
Author: vigorous chapel multi-billionaire

Unwitting humblepwn

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31691012)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 23rd, 2017 3:32 PM
Author: Dashing arrogant halford



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#33626415)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:26 PM
Author: 180 stain

omfg at accepting anyone with a 140.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520501)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:35 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

"What was your score?"

"Better than chance!"



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520570)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:26 PM
Author: multi-colored sound barrier

My law school just hired an Arizona Summit law grad as an office assistant.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520500)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:30 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

Seems about right.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520526)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2016 8:14 PM
Author: walnut milk

(Arizona Summit Law school student)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31202274)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 17th, 2016 1:42 AM
Author: exhilarant mewling cruise ship internal respiration



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31205017)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 29th, 2017 2:53 PM
Author: swollen spectacular theater stage



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#32946379)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 7:57 PM
Author: Stubborn digit ratio factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36128898)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:34 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

How evil are the professors who are complicit in the dry ass fucking of those students?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520549)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:34 PM
Author: 180 stain

tbf those profs are probably barely employable themselves

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520555)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:37 PM
Author: diverse garrison



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520581)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:35 PM
Author: transparent stag film rigor

Meh -- there are a TON of sleazy bullshit industries.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520559)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:37 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

So are you saying they're just little Eichmanns?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520582)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:45 PM
Author: transparent stag film rigor

I'm saying we're all scumbags.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520626)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:36 PM
Author: useless slap-happy orchestra pit hunting ground

Touro is the worst

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520575)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:45 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

Go on.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520625)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 8:58 PM
Author: swollen spectacular theater stage

Fucksberg College of Law

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730749)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:36 PM
Author: Painfully Honest Trump Supporter Forum

they still run old school confidence schemes in arizona.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520578)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 20th, 2016 2:40 PM
Author: diverse garrison



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30520600)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 6:15 PM
Author: Cracking milky space



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30729804)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:16 PM
Author: copper brunch feces

In the opinion of xo, what is the bottom lsat-score for being able to function as a useful lawyer? Judge?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730170)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:21 PM
Author: Thriller Police Squad

155-160

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730200)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:22 PM
Author: copper brunch feces

percentile?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730208)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:23 PM
Author: diverse garrison



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730215)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:24 PM
Author: copper brunch feces

of test takers or of those admitted to law schools?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730227)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 8:59 PM
Author: swollen spectacular theater stage

Lawyer, 151

Judge, 167

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730759)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:29 PM
Author: hairraiser shrine psychic

can it be worse than Thomas Jefferson? 'cause that school is a walking, talking criminal fraud.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730242)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:35 PM
Author: copper brunch feces

so, as an lsat score of 155-160/75-80 percentile is necessary(acc to xo) to be a useful lawyer, roughly which percentage of all US law school admittees and graduates, respectively, achieve these scores?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730262)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 8:33 PM
Author: Razzle Dull Property Chad

I think you need at least 160 to be decent. There are lots of retarded lawyers who shouldn't be doing this.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730552)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 18th, 2017 2:15 AM
Author: citrine swashbuckling tanning salon

it takes around a 75-80% MCAT score to be admitted to any US allopathic medical school.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34468484)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2016 7:50 PM
Author: sinister big-titted address

Lol, it's a fucking UBE state. So it's not even like how random states (e.g., Arkansas) will put together really tough bar exams that even non-retarded kids will fail.

AZ bar takers really are just retards.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#30730332)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 29th, 2017 2:50 PM
Author: Supple haunted graveyard

(Hillary Clinton)

nvm it was the DC bar she failed, carry on

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#32946357)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2016 8:04 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

Failing, For-Profit Law School Announces Plans To Affiliate With ‘Major University’

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/08/failing-for-profit-law-school-announces-plans-to-affiliate-with-major-university/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31202212)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 16th, 2016 8:15 PM
Author: dun racy institution

People's College of Law if it still exists is the worst

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31202288)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 17th, 2016 1:41 AM
Author: vibrant den

yeah but PCOL is like 4000 bucks a year while Arizona Summit is like 40,000 a year

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31205014)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 17th, 2016 1:46 AM
Author: metal adventurous business firm

The ABA allows for profit law schools?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31205031)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 17th, 2016 1:49 AM
Author: balding nowag

where do they fall on the cooley rankings?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31205041)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 20th, 2016 5:08 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

plz look into this.

thank

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31690965)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 18th, 2016 1:30 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

UPDATE: First-time pass rate now under 25%

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/10/law-school-posts-worst-bar-exam-passage-rates-in-its-existence-drags-down-entire-states-passage-rates/



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31669657)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 20th, 2016 5:20 PM
Author: Filthy Famous Landscape Painting Meetinghouse

Boomers gonna boom

The law school now requires that all students with GPAs below a 3.33 take and pass a mock bar exam as a graduation requirement, knowing full well that such a requirement may preclude countless students from being able to graduate and further sully their otherwise abysmal bar exam passage rates.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31691045)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 20th, 2016 5:33 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

Are law school graduation rates published like they are for undergrad?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#31691115)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 29th, 2017 2:48 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

ABA puts Arizona Summit on probation because of its pure shit bar passage rates.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-education/2017/03/27/arizona-summit-law-school-probation-low-bar-passage-rates/99698686/

To regain compliance:

"At least 75 percent of a law school's graduates must pass the bar within five years of graduation; or a school must have a 75 percent pass rate for at least three of those five years."

Good luck!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#32946344)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 29th, 2017 2:51 PM
Author: Supple haunted graveyard

isn't Cooley the worst?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#32946365)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 12:32 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

It was the quintessential TTT school in the old PR/XO days.

But it has much higher bar passage rates than Arizona Summit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462650)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 29th, 2017 3:05 PM
Author: drab yarmulke foreskin

I actually know one of these grads but she graduated a number of years ago when the school merely had a "bad" reputation

She does shitlaw and probably makes 50 or 60k if I had to guess

Has also been posting anti Trump shit non stop since the election

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#32946456)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 23rd, 2017 3:31 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

Job listing for a new dean.

https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=d9ab3e634594eaa0

http://archive.is/x8ejZ

- "Although having had impressive bar examination outcomes for many years, the school in recent times has experienced a serious decline in this critical area."

- "The Council of the American Bar Association Section of Legal Education recently placed the school on probation, primarily due to lack of rigor in its admissions policy and academic program and processes."

- "Summit has been the subject of considerable negative publicity, especially in recent years as bar pass results declined."

- " Experience in legal education and law school administration is desirable, but is not an absolute requirement."



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#33626404)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 12:33 PM
Author: Plum Beady-eyed Jewess

list line is amazing. Have they hired anyone yet?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462655)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 1:18 PM
Author: floppy sick hell

I think I'll apply. I have experience in the education sector.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462915)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 12:30 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

https://abovethelaw.com/2017/10/this-law-schools-bar-exam-passage-rates-are-embarrassing/

July 2017 Arizona bar passage: 25.7%

But only 35 people took it (probably the best of the best).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462639)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 17th, 2017 1:19 PM
Author: metal adventurous business firm

how tough is the AZ bar

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34462919)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 18th, 2017 2:03 AM
Author: Cracking milky space

Probably in the fat middle.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#34468463)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 7:54 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

Arizona Summit now suing the ABA for being unfair.

http://archive.azcentral.com/persistent/icimages/news/Summit%20ABA%20complaint.pdf

Note:

1 - The lawyers can figure out how to center titles. Get rid of the tabs, you morons.

2 - Arizona Summit is being represented by lawyers who went to law school at: University of Arizona (local counsel), Harvard, Harvard, and Harvard. Not even token representation from one of the FINE Arizona Summit grads?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36128882)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 11th, 2018 10:52 AM
Author: Onyx degenerate office



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36222620)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 11th, 2018 10:58 AM
Author: Appetizing Umber Mexican

on a good day can someone randomly guess a 140 without even reading the questions?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36222656)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 11th, 2018 4:32 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

ABA:

"Following the May 10, 2018, appearance of Arizona Summit Law School’s representatives before the Council and the review of both the written materials submitted on behalf of the Law School and statements made at the Council hearing, the Council voted to remove the Law School from the ABA list of approved law schools."

https://bit.ly/2l1XjPq



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36225033)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 11th, 2018 4:35 PM
Author: swollen spectacular theater stage

Fall 2016 140 143 148 2.55 2.96 3.31

NON-DISCOUNTED COST

$248,444

2017 GRADUATES

151

Large Firm 2%

Small Firm 18.5%

Federal Clerkship 0.7%

Public Service 10.6%

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36225063)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 11th, 2018 4:38 PM
Author: Cracking milky space

31.8% get legal jobs.

That's $781,270 in education costs per legal job.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36225086)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 11th, 2018 5:00 PM
Author: Plum Beady-eyed Jewess

the lawsuit just got ten feet higher!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36225249)



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Date: June 11th, 2018 5:02 PM
Author: Painfully Honest Trump Supporter Forum

i've met only one grad of the following schools and was convinced they were retarded:

cuny.

touro.

california western.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3229164&forum_id=2#36225262)