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Cell phone company offered me 400k to build an antenna on my property

30 year lease and they get an easement. Ljl when it rains it...
passionate ratface space
  03/23/17
Ask for 1m
supple filthy cuck genital piercing
  03/23/17
Honestly i'd let them do it for 10k i get no service here no...
passionate ratface space
  03/23/17
You need to price this out. A cell phone antenna attachment...
Hideous ruby pocket flask haunted graveyard
  03/23/17
Seriously?
passionate ratface space
  03/23/17
hero
heady ocher chad tank
  03/23/17
"Look at the value of $3,500 per month for 30 years, di...
swashbuckling walnut macaca
  03/23/17
Good question
passionate ratface space
  03/23/17
Why are you assuming the cash flow won't grow? Need to know ...
titillating rose location bbw
  03/23/17
Why would I assume otherwise?
swashbuckling walnut macaca
  03/23/17
So you are asking him to ask for the entire present value of...
pearl vigorous kitchen
  03/23/17
Enjoy brain cancer.
pearl vigorous kitchen
  03/23/17
...
tripping trust fund
  03/23/17
He's gonna live forever.
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  03/23/17
...
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maniacal abode ceo
  03/23/17
...
Self-absorbed duck-like forum
  03/24/17
Libs losing hoap
iridescent yarmulke
  03/23/17
Enjoy ur cancer
motley free-loading police squad property
  03/23/17
Thats flame, plus it will be up on a hill a ways away from a...
passionate ratface space
  03/23/17
Demand 800k
Beady-eyed faggot firefighter old irish cottage
  03/23/17
...
up-to-no-good library
  03/23/17
...
Talented theatre dingle berry
  03/24/17
Woah Cr Friend!
maroon pervert dilemma
  03/23/17
half cash, half coke
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...
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...
lilac galvanic step-uncle's house mexican
  03/23/17
...
Spectacular garrison
  03/23/17
Demand a clause that you get to fuck around on the antenna a...
Multi-colored bawdyhouse codepig
  03/23/17
Yeah. Climbing it is FUN. BOUNCY! BOUNCY! BOUNCY!
pearl vigorous kitchen
  03/23/17
I wonder it i could tap into their bandwidth
passionate ratface space
  03/23/17
(kindergarten cop kid)
disturbing cuckold meetinghouse
  03/23/17
Free upgrades for life!
Judgmental shaky temple internal respiration
  03/23/17
Many, many people who do this ultimately regret it. At th...
lavender liquid oxygen casino
  03/23/17
this is correct. it costs about $75,000 in 2017 dollars to r...
sticky elite resort mad cow disease
  03/23/17
why would you want to remove the tower? Can rig it for your ...
plum cumskin
  03/23/17
Because (a) it sounds like it's no where near a road, (b) in...
lavender liquid oxygen casino
  03/23/17
"They arent going to give you permission to put a giant...
aquamarine bisexual parlour
  03/23/17
...
Learning disabled magical institution
  03/24/17
Huge Christmas tree.
swashbuckling walnut macaca
  03/24/17
Best tree house ever.
swashbuckling walnut macaca
  03/24/17
Oh and if you ever want to subdivide and sell you have a gia...
lavender liquid oxygen casino
  03/23/17
that's not how it works, dude. you discount the future co...
Glassy theater people who are hurt
  03/23/17
i have a lot of land so its not really a worry. This would b...
passionate ratface space
  03/23/17
ask for 20,000 ETH instead
Tan orchestra pit reading party
  03/23/17
C A N C E R clause dude: seriously, demand something re: can...
irate diverse gas station fanboi
  03/23/17
lol at anyone telling him to demand anything. he doesn't own...
sticky elite resort mad cow disease
  03/23/17
MAKE | GOOD | DEALS they'll reject so then say FMV in ...
maize razzle kitty cat
  03/23/17
no they won't. they'll just make their offer to a different ...
sticky elite resort mad cow disease
  03/23/17
well this presumes there's not someone immediately next door...
maize razzle kitty cat
  03/23/17
there's about one cell tower every square half mile in a den...
sticky elite resort mad cow disease
  03/23/17
not doing subthread wasteland here, aspie, I think u get my ...
maize razzle kitty cat
  03/23/17
Ask for more Demand more for every co-tenant Get a decent ...
Provocative hell party of the first part
  03/23/17
And they give him Boost Mobile FOR LIFE.
swashbuckling walnut macaca
  03/23/17
With unlimited data.
Provocative hell party of the first part
  03/23/17
LJL. I've handled some of these deals. The cell company in...
Racy theater stage
  03/23/17
great advice. worth $10ks im sure.
Glassy theater people who are hurt
  03/23/17
Sounds like he also has to get the other side to cover his l...
Mind-boggling black woman field
  03/23/17
of course.
Racy theater stage
  03/23/17
I imagine this is all boilerplate stuff they do these all th...
passionate ratface space
  03/23/17
you imagine wrong. they usually try to pay out a fixed sum,...
Racy theater stage
  03/23/17
Crazy, good to know
passionate ratface space
  03/23/17
I helped somebody do one of these once. Lease was like 30 pa...
Provocative hell party of the first part
  03/23/17
In a few of the ones I've done the provisions aren't boilerp...
lavender liquid oxygen casino
  03/23/17
also they don't include repair and takeaway costs, so when t...
Swollen Navy State Idiot
  03/23/17
lol @ assuming kindness and decency from a corporation
Glassy theater people who are hurt
  03/24/17
Woah Cr friend!
Talented theatre dingle berry
  03/24/17
If you play hardball, they will go next door. Now you have a...
Self-absorbed duck-like forum
  03/24/17


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:50 PM
Author: passionate ratface space

30 year lease and they get an easement. Ljl when it rains it pours

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898824)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:52 PM
Author: supple filthy cuck genital piercing

Ask for 1m

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898841)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:53 PM
Author: passionate ratface space

Honestly i'd let them do it for 10k i get no service here now, plus they will run fiber to it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898846)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:01 PM
Author: Hideous ruby pocket flask haunted graveyard

You need to price this out. A cell phone antenna attachment pays rent of about $700 per month to be on a tower. Each carrier will want an attachment on the tower, so you typically will see 4-5 attachments per tower. Look at the value of $3,500 per month for 30 years, discounted to present value. That's how much you should be asking for.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898917)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:03 PM
Author: passionate ratface space

Seriously?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898926)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:04 PM
Author: heady ocher chad tank

hero

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898935)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:46 PM
Author: swashbuckling walnut macaca

"Look at the value of $3,500 per month for 30 years, discounted to present value."

Given bankruptcy and enforcement risk, I judge this a mildly risky investment and apply a 10% discount, valuing the $3,500 cash flow at about $420,000.

What's the tax treatment for $3,500 monthly payments? Ordinary income would be TTT.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899191)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:51 PM
Author: passionate ratface space

Good question

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899230)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:29 PM
Author: titillating rose location bbw

Why are you assuming the cash flow won't grow? Need to know the term of $700/month leases.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900066)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:30 PM
Author: swashbuckling walnut macaca

Why would I assume otherwise?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901775)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:53 PM
Author: pearl vigorous kitchen

So you are asking him to ask for the entire present value of what the tower company will make?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899247)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:49 PM
Author: pearl vigorous kitchen

Enjoy brain cancer.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899225)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 4:08 PM
Author: tripping trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899363)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:32 PM
Author: lilac galvanic step-uncle's house mexican

He's gonna live forever.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901790)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:57 PM
Author: hairraiser fantasy-prone candlestick maker really tough guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902057)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 10:57 PM
Author: maniacal abode ceo



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32903135)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 10:04 AM
Author: Self-absorbed duck-like forum



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32905312)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:54 PM
Author: iridescent yarmulke

Libs losing hoap

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898850)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:55 PM
Author: motley free-loading police squad property

Enjoy ur cancer

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898852)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:55 PM
Author: passionate ratface space

Thats flame, plus it will be up on a hill a ways away from anything

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898859)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:55 PM
Author: Beady-eyed faggot firefighter old irish cottage

Demand 800k

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898853)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:02 PM
Author: up-to-no-good library



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898924)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 2:50 AM
Author: Talented theatre dingle berry



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32904338)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:57 PM
Author: maroon pervert dilemma

Woah Cr Friend!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898879)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:57 PM
Author: disturbing cuckold meetinghouse

half cash, half coke

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898881)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:58 PM
Author: primrose toaster alpha



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898891)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:33 PM
Author: lilac galvanic step-uncle's house mexican



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901792)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:03 PM
Author: Spectacular garrison



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898928)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:55 PM
Author: Multi-colored bawdyhouse codepig

Demand a clause that you get to fuck around on the antenna as much as you like.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899264)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:57 PM
Author: pearl vigorous kitchen

Yeah. Climbing it is FUN. BOUNCY! BOUNCY! BOUNCY!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899281)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 4:03 PM
Author: passionate ratface space

I wonder it i could tap into their bandwidth

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899320)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 4:18 PM
Author: disturbing cuckold meetinghouse

(kindergarten cop kid)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899432)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 4:16 PM
Author: Judgmental shaky temple internal respiration

Free upgrades for life!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899413)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:22 PM
Author: lavender liquid oxygen casino

Many, many people who do this ultimately regret it.

At the end of the lease do they have to repair the property? They like to leave the foundation and footings in the ground which can be very expensive to remove. I've even heard tower guys say over a few drinks that they sometimes try to sneak it in that they have no obligation to even remove the tower. After 30 years it's likely obsolete or nearing the end of its useful life anyway.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899996)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:28 PM
Author: sticky elite resort mad cow disease

this is correct. it costs about $75,000 in 2017 dollars to remove a full tower and the foundation. factor in inflation over 30 years and you're basically paying them for the tower.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900062)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:34 PM
Author: plum cumskin

why would you want to remove the tower? Can rig it for your own use or sell billboards on that shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900121)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:39 PM
Author: lavender liquid oxygen casino

Because (a) it sounds like it's no where near a road, (b) in many jurisdictions billboards are almost as highly regulated as strip clubs. They arent going to give you permission to put a giant fucking sign on a jury rigged rusting out cell phone tower and (c) the sign company isn't going to want to put a valuable giant sign on a jury rigged rusting out cell phone tower.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900198)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:53 PM
Author: aquamarine bisexual parlour

"They arent going to give you permission to put a giant fucking sign on a jury rigged rusting out cell phone tower and (c) the sign company isn't going to want to put a valuable giant sign on a jury rigged rusting out cell phone tower. "

this made me chortle out loud in my office. ty

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900347)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 10:13 AM
Author: Learning disabled magical institution



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32905360)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 2:48 AM
Author: swashbuckling walnut macaca

Huge Christmas tree.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32904335)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 2:54 AM
Author: swashbuckling walnut macaca

Best tree house ever.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32904343)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:42 PM
Author: lavender liquid oxygen casino

Oh and if you ever want to subdivide and sell you have a giant fuckkng tower to deal with as well as some prole cunt who thinks she's going to get cancer.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900237)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:39 PM
Author: Glassy theater people who are hurt

that's not how it works, dude.

you discount the future cost to the present.

let's say the real discount rate is 1%. that means the present value of the cost of tearing it down after 30 years is $56K or so.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901861)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:52 PM
Author: passionate ratface space

i have a lot of land so its not really a worry. This would be in an area i check once a year or so

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900332)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:30 PM
Author: Tan orchestra pit reading party

ask for 20,000 ETH instead

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900082)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:31 PM
Author: irate diverse gas station fanboi

C A N C E R clause dude: seriously, demand something re: cancer

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900093)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:33 PM
Author: sticky elite resort mad cow disease

lol at anyone telling him to demand anything. he doesn't own all the land in the world

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900108)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:34 PM
Author: maize razzle kitty cat

MAKE | GOOD | DEALS

they'll reject

so then say FMV in your estimate is higher than what offered, get a few extra bucks out of them

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900124)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:36 PM
Author: sticky elite resort mad cow disease

no they won't. they'll just make their offer to a different guy down the road and hope he's dumber and more prole/short-sighted

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900141)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:36 PM
Author: maize razzle kitty cat

well this presumes there's not someone immediately next door, obviously

think of it like oil drilling

there's a reason they pick parcel A or B

but yeah if this guy has someone next door I might not be a HARDBALLER

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900151)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:39 PM
Author: sticky elite resort mad cow disease

there's about one cell tower every square half mile in a densely populated area. do you know how many acres that is?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900193)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:39 PM
Author: maize razzle kitty cat

not doing subthread wasteland here, aspie, I think u get my point and I certainly acknowledge with the facts on your side, it would make sense to take the offer



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900200)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:26 PM
Author: Provocative hell party of the first part

Ask for more

Demand more for every co-tenant

Get a decent inflation rate increase every 5 years

They pay increased property tax

Check with your homeowners. They pay if you need a rider

They pay to restore the grounds to like new condition

They indemnify and have duty to defend any administrative actions (zoning, environmental, etc.)

They indemnify and have duty to defend any civil actions

They maintain access road

Probably more I'm not thinking of. Better check with a realtor, ask how it affects resale value.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901748)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:32 PM
Author: swashbuckling walnut macaca

And they give him Boost Mobile FOR LIFE.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901784)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:35 PM
Author: Provocative hell party of the first part

With unlimited data.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901825)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:34 PM
Author: Racy theater stage

LJL. I've handled some of these deals. The cell company invariably ends up fucking the property owner.

OP, if you decide to do it, negotiate the actual cost of utilities, recalculated every X months, as an addition to any rents, and make the cell company install and use a separate meter (better) or third-party submeter (worse) for their power usage. You don't want them on your meter if you can help it - they run up your KW draw as well as your kWh usage. If you don't understand the difference, you need to do more research before you sign anything. Include utilities taxes, fees, etc as part of the deal. Also, make them pay for all maintenance, indemnify you for any damage, repair, environmental issues, noise, etc., and include a termination clause you can execute. A five-year lease with renewal options is probably better than 30 years. Then promptly stay on top of that shit and evict them the second things go sour - you can usually renegotiate for better terms at the threat of a UD suit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901812)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:41 PM
Author: Glassy theater people who are hurt

great advice. worth $10ks im sure.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901887)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:43 PM
Author: Mind-boggling black woman field

Sounds like he also has to get the other side to cover his legal fees

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901920)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 9:02 PM
Author: Racy theater stage

of course.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902100)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 9:03 PM
Author: passionate ratface space

I imagine this is all boilerplate stuff they do these all the time, of couse they pay utilities etc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902112)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 9:03 PM
Author: Racy theater stage

you imagine wrong. they usually try to pay out a fixed sum, or a fixed monthly utilities payment when the actual utilities costs increase regularly.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902120)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 9:04 PM
Author: passionate ratface space

Crazy, good to know

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902129)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 9:41 PM
Author: Provocative hell party of the first part

I helped somebody do one of these once. Lease was like 30 pages, and had none of the stuff I listed above or that mccheese is talking about. U have to ask for all of it, their boilerplate lease is one sided as fuck.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902470)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 11:26 PM
Author: lavender liquid oxygen casino

In a few of the ones I've done the provisions aren't boilerplate per de but are one sided and unless you have a good industry knowledgeable attorney push hard for you they'll say they can't change the majority of it because "bullshit, bullshit and bullshit". They can and do change them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32903368)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 11:29 PM
Author: Swollen Navy State Idiot

also they don't include repair and takeaway costs, so when they finish with the tower or it breaks in a storm, they just abandon it and the land owner is left with worthless shit on his property that costs a fuckton to remove

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32903386)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 10:07 AM
Author: Glassy theater people who are hurt

lol @ assuming kindness and decency from a corporation

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32905329)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 2:51 AM
Author: Talented theatre dingle berry

Woah Cr friend!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32904339)



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Date: March 24th, 2017 10:07 AM
Author: Self-absorbed duck-like forum

If you play hardball, they will go next door. Now you have a giant cell tower next door (and thus cancer) but no 400k.

All in all, YOUR fucked.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32905328)