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Student Loan Forgiveness Program Approval Letters May Be Invalid, Education Dept

Student Loan Forgiveness Program Approval Letters May Be Inv...
vivacious charcoal trailer park
  04/01/17
*XO student loanmos suddenly stop sniggering when "Firs...
Sienna reading party dysfunction
  04/01/17
...
Electric chestnut quadroon
  04/02/17
...
magenta orchestra pit
  04/02/17
...
Embarrassed to the bone giraffe hall
  04/02/17
...
Mildly autistic canary location electric furnace
  04/02/17
...
Carmine karate
  04/02/17
FUCK it's starting
magenta orchestra pit
  04/02/17
this. i have this sick feeling this is only the beginning.
Electric chestnut quadroon
  04/02/17
This was already discussed in several threads. The reason fo...
Soggy frum school juggernaut
  04/02/17
it was 501(c)(4)?
magenta orchestra pit
  04/02/17
Something else I think, 501c13 maybe?
Soggy frum school juggernaut
  04/02/17
501(c)(19) is veterans orgs
lime federal sneaky criminal
  04/02/17
seems pretty counterintuitive that Vietnam Veterans of Ameri...
magenta orchestra pit
  04/02/17
Yes but it was very clear when reading the guidelines for PS...
Soggy frum school juggernaut
  04/02/17
The rules directly say that it doesn't have to be a 501c3.
concupiscible party of the first part school cafeteria
  04/02/17
Employment with the following types of organizations qualifi...
Soggy frum school juggernaut
  04/02/17
Exactly. "Other types." The other types are by wha...
concupiscible party of the first part school cafeteria
  04/02/17
Yes, and it doesn't sound like what how organization qualifi...
Soggy frum school juggernaut
  04/02/17
they got a letter from the loan service provider contracted ...
transparent lascivious lodge gaping
  04/02/17
The guy is a lawyer and should have known before he even sta...
Soggy frum school juggernaut
  04/02/17
Seems like the loan servicers will be fucked not the govt
concupiscible party of the first part school cafeteria
  04/02/17
"Mr. Rudert left Vietnam Veterans of America in 2015 an...
transparent lascivious lodge gaping
  04/02/17
Disability is just another way of getting by. Like foraging,...
concupiscible party of the first part school cafeteria
  04/02/17
...
Territorial principal's office azn
  04/02/17
veterans with mental disability are often denied benefits wh...
magenta orchestra pit
  04/02/17
protip: most lie about having mental disabilities
Electric chestnut quadroon
  04/02/17
if they are "clearly disabled" then they are absol...
transparent lascivious lodge gaping
  04/02/17
I think it has more to do with amount than anything. It's u...
Mischievous Space
  04/02/17
chances PSLF gets capped at 50K w/ grandfathering provision?...
Electric chestnut quadroon
  04/02/17
I'm not expecting much grandfathering. Remember nobody has ...
Mischievous Space
  04/02/17
the first ppl eligible for forgiveness under PSLF is less th...
Electric chestnut quadroon
  04/02/17
Will be very interesting. The doctors getting 300k loans fo...
Mischievous Space
  04/02/17
should have only been state, local, fed gov. lol at includin...
Electric chestnut quadroon
  04/02/17
i have not flame $300K of federal debt, currently on IBR. pl...
magenta orchestra pit
  04/02/17
you will have paid it off by then.
Electric chestnut quadroon
  04/02/17
right now my payments don't even cover interest.
magenta orchestra pit
  04/02/17
Not good.
Mischievous Space
  04/02/17
you'll get forgiveness but get fucked hard by tax bomb if yo...
elite ungodly mediation point
  04/02/17
i thought the tax issue w/ PSLF was unresolved?
Electric chestnut quadroon
  04/02/17
i hadn't heard that. link?
elite ungodly mediation point
  04/02/17
PSLF has no tax bomb. they did it right for PSLF and simply ...
magenta orchestra pit
  04/02/17
go trump!
Drunken doobsian jewess
  04/02/17
Do DAs and PDs and shit get this forgiveness
aggressive base coldplay fan
  04/02/17
yes
silver 180 doctorate generalized bond
  04/02/17


Poast new message in this thread



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Date: April 1st, 2017 10:22 AM
Author: vivacious charcoal trailer park

Student Loan Forgiveness Program Approval Letters May Be Invalid, Education Dept. Says

More than 550,000 people have signed up for a federal program that promises to repay their remaining student loans after they work 10 years in a public service job.

But now, some of those workers are left to wonder if the government will hold up its end of the bargain — or leave them stuck with thousands of dollars in debt that they thought would be eliminated.

In a legal filing submitted last week, the Education Department suggested that borrowers could not rely on the program’s administrator to say accurately whether they qualify for debt forgiveness. The thousands of approval letters that have been sent by the administrator, FedLoan Servicing, are not binding and can be rescinded at any time, the agency said.

The filing adds to questions and concerns about the program just as the first potential beneficiaries reach the end of their 10-year commitment — and the clocks start ticking on the remainder of their debts.

Four borrowers and the American Bar Association have filed a suit in United States District Court in Washington against the department.

The plaintiffs held jobs that they initially were told qualified them for debt forgiveness, only to later have that decision reversed — with no evident way to appeal, they say. The suit seeks to have their eligibility for the forgiveness program restored.

“It’s been really perplexing,” said Jamie Rudert, one of the plaintiffs. “I’ve never gotten a straight answer or an explanation from FedLoan about what happened, and the Department of Education isn’t willing to provide any information.”

The forgiveness program offers major benefits for borrowers, advocates say, to the point of persuading some people to take public service jobs instead of more lucrative work in the private sector. The program generally covers people with federal student loans who work for 10 years at a government or nonprofit organization, a diverse group that includes public school employees, museum workers, doctors at public hospitals and firefighters. The federal government approved the program in 2007 in a sweeping, bipartisan bill.

About 25 percent of the nation’s work force may qualify for the program, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau estimated. Eligibility is based on a borrower’s employer and whether it meets the program’s rules, not on the specific work an applicant does.

On its website, the Education Department directs borrowers who believe their employer qualifies to submit a certification form to FedLoan. If the form is approved, the Education Department transfers the borrower’s loans to FedLoan, which collects payments and tracks the borrower’s progress toward the 120 qualifying monthly payments they must make before the remaining balances will be forgiven.

Only a small fraction of the millions of workers who might qualify for the program have begun the process of using it. Fewer than 553,000 borrowers have submitted at least one certification form to FedLoan and received its approval, according to Education Department data. Borrowers are encouraged to submit a new certification form each year.

But some of those approved borrowers might get bad news because it is unclear whether the certifications are valid.

Mr. Rudert submitted the certification form in 2012 and received a letter from FedLoan affirming that his work as a lawyer at Vietnam Veterans of America, a nonprofit aid group, qualified him for the forgiveness program. But in 2016, after submitting his latest annual recertification note to FedLoan, he got a denial note.

The decision was retroactive, he was told. None of his previous work for the group would be considered valid for the loan forgiveness program.

What changed? Mr. Rudert said he did not know. After filing a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, he received a reply from FedLoan saying that his application “had initially been approved in error.” He has not been told what the error was, and has not found any way to appeal the decision.

Mr. Rudert and the American Bar Association filed their suit in December, alleging that the Education Department acted “arbitrarily and capriciously” in making its decisions about which employers qualified.

Last week, the department filed a reply that said that FedLoan’s responses to borrowers’ certification forms cannot be trusted.

A FedLoan approval letter “does not reflect a final agency action on the borrower’s qualifications” for the forgiveness program, the department wrote.

The idea that approvals can be reversed at any time, with no explanation, is chilling for borrowers. Mr. Rudert, who graduated from law school owing nearly $135,000 on student loans, said he would have picked a different employer if he had known that his work at Vietnam Veterans of America would not qualify.

A FedLoan spokesman would not comment on the case, referring questions to the Department of Education. A department spokesman also declined to comment on the suit or on any of the issues it raised, including whether any mechanism exists for borrowers to challenge a denial.

That lack of transparency has been a hallmark of the forgiveness program, said Natalia Abrams, the executive director of Student Debt Crisis, an advocacy group.

The program’s rules are complex. Only certain types of federal loans qualify, meaning that many borrowers need to restructure their debt to make it eligible — and the Education Department has done little to clarify gray areas, Ms. Abrams said.

No borrowers’ debts have been eliminated. Because 10 years of service are required, the first wave of qualified workers will be eligible to submit applications for debt forgiveness in October.

At that point, others whose certifications were approved by FedLoan could discover that the Education Department has a different position. Some employers clearly qualify — the definition of a “government organization” is fairly straightforward — but the rules for certain nonprofit organizations are harder to interpret.

“It’s kind of a no man’s land,” Ms. Abrams said. “We don’t know how this will pan out.”

Linda Klein, president of the American Bar Association, called the department’s response “illogical, untenable and bewildering.” An unreliable certification system “exposes those undertaking public service work — exactly what Congress intended them to do — to crippling financial risk,” she said.

Mr. Rudert left Vietnam Veterans of America in 2015 and now works at Paralyzed Veterans of America, helping former service members appeal denied applications for disability benefits.

The work is almost identical to what he did in his former job, Mr. Rudert said. Last year, FedLoan approved his certification request and deemed Paralyzed Veterans of America a qualified employer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/30/business/student-loan-forgiveness-program-lawsuit.html?src=me&_r=0

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32968377)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 1st, 2017 3:21 PM
Author: Sienna reading party dysfunction

*XO student loanmos suddenly stop sniggering when "First they came for" poem is quoted*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32970105)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 9:59 AM
Author: Electric chestnut quadroon



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974456)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 10:32 AM
Author: magenta orchestra pit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974572)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:58 AM
Author: Embarrassed to the bone giraffe hall



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974885)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 12:26 PM
Author: Mildly autistic canary location electric furnace



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975038)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 9:22 AM
Author: Carmine karate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974381)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 10:30 AM
Author: magenta orchestra pit

FUCK

it's starting

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974564)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 10:44 AM
Author: Electric chestnut quadroon

this. i have this sick feeling this is only the beginning.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974613)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 10:34 AM
Author: Soggy frum school juggernaut

This was already discussed in several threads. The reason for this is that the organization these people worked for is not a 501c3. They'll sue since this was arbitrary and capricious with no right to appeal etc. Meanwhile, it had no impact on broader PSLF.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974576)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 10:37 AM
Author: magenta orchestra pit

it was 501(c)(4)?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974583)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 10:37 AM
Author: Soggy frum school juggernaut

Something else I think, 501c13 maybe?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974587)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 10:46 AM
Author: lime federal sneaky criminal

501(c)(19) is veterans orgs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974623)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 10:54 AM
Author: magenta orchestra pit

seems pretty counterintuitive that Vietnam Veterans of America doesn't qualify for PSLF

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974652)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 10:58 AM
Author: Soggy frum school juggernaut

Yes but it was very clear when reading the guidelines for PSLF that it needs to be gov or 501c3. Keep in mind that a lawyer is getting pwned by this distinction. He should have known better.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974663)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:03 AM
Author: concupiscible party of the first part school cafeteria

The rules directly say that it doesn't have to be a 501c3.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974679)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:12 AM
Author: Soggy frum school juggernaut

Employment with the following types of organizations qualifies for PSLF:

Government organizations at any level (federal, state, local, or tribal)

Not-for-profit organizations that are tax-exempt under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code

Other types of not-for-profit organizations that provide certain types of qualifying public services

Lol at joining a 501c whatever and leaving that up to interpretation

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974708)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:15 AM
Author: concupiscible party of the first part school cafeteria

Exactly. "Other types." The other types are by what the organization does, not tax status.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974717)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:17 AM
Author: Soggy frum school juggernaut

Yes, and it doesn't sound like what how organization qualifies:

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/glossary#Qualifying_Public_Services

But in either case, lol at not working for gov or 501c3 and relying on some dumb fuck to interpret this in your favor

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974719)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:18 AM
Author: transparent lascivious lodge gaping

they got a letter from the loan service provider contracted by the fed gov. How are these kids supposed to know that was bullshit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974725)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:19 AM
Author: Soggy frum school juggernaut

The guy is a lawyer and should have known before he even started this job. But I agree that the gov will get fucked for trying to renege on those letters and fuck them for even trying

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974730)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:21 AM
Author: concupiscible party of the first part school cafeteria

Seems like the loan servicers will be fucked not the govt

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974734)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:12 AM
Author: transparent lascivious lodge gaping

"Mr. Rudert left Vietnam Veterans of America in 2015 and now works at Paralyzed Veterans of America, helping former service members appeal denied applications for disability benefits."

What are the odds that a veteran who is literally crippled is being denied disability benefits? Less than .01 percent? There is so much fraud in disability benefits millions are getting them who have no disability at all, much less actual vets who are paralyzed being denied them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974704)



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Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:17 AM
Author: concupiscible party of the first part school cafeteria

Disability is just another way of getting by. Like foraging, hunting, agriculture, wagecuck, etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974721)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 12:30 PM
Author: Territorial principal's office azn



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975063)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 12:14 PM
Author: magenta orchestra pit

veterans with mental disability are often denied benefits when they're clearly disabled. ptsd, etc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974982)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 12:20 PM
Author: Electric chestnut quadroon

protip: most lie about having mental disabilities

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975020)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 12:25 PM
Author: transparent lascivious lodge gaping

if they are "clearly disabled" then they are absolutey going to get benefits. the bar is so low that millions of people who have no disability at all are able to get benefit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975035)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:55 AM
Author: Mischievous Space

I think it has more to do with amount than anything. It's unlikely anybody is just waking away from 6 figs in debt.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974869)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 11:57 AM
Author: Electric chestnut quadroon

chances PSLF gets capped at 50K w/ grandfathering provision? I'll take it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974880)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 12:01 PM
Author: Mischievous Space

I'm not expecting much grandfathering. Remember nobody has gotten any forgiveness yet under PSLF, PAYE, or IBR.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974905)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 12:17 PM
Author: Electric chestnut quadroon

the first ppl eligible for forgiveness under PSLF is less than 2 years away.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975001)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 1:36 PM
Author: Mischievous Space

Will be very interesting. The doctors getting 300k loans forgiven then immediately taking jobs paying 300k May ruffle some feathers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975436)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 2:01 PM
Author: Electric chestnut quadroon

should have only been state, local, fed gov. lol at including "non profit" hospitals.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975623)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 12:15 PM
Author: magenta orchestra pit

i have not flame $300K of federal debt, currently on IBR. planning on forgiveness when i hit year 25. what are my odds?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32974988)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 12:18 PM
Author: Electric chestnut quadroon

you will have paid it off by then.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975010)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 12:22 PM
Author: magenta orchestra pit

right now my payments don't even cover interest.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975028)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 1:37 PM
Author: Mischievous Space

Not good.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975444)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 1:52 PM
Author: elite ungodly mediation point

you'll get forgiveness but get fucked hard by tax bomb if you have any assets (PSLF doesn't have tax bomb issue)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975559)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 2:00 PM
Author: Electric chestnut quadroon

i thought the tax issue w/ PSLF was unresolved?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975622)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 2:15 PM
Author: elite ungodly mediation point

i hadn't heard that. link?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975724)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 3:31 PM
Author: magenta orchestra pit

PSLF has no tax bomb. they did it right for PSLF and simply forgot to include similar language for IBR. such bullshit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32976212)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 1:57 PM
Author: Drunken doobsian jewess

go trump!



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975590)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 2:03 PM
Author: aggressive base coldplay fan

Do DAs and PDs and shit get this forgiveness

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32975633)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 2nd, 2017 3:28 PM
Author: silver 180 doctorate generalized bond

yes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3570338&forum_id=2#32976192)