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Forget calculus, algebra I needs to be retired as a college requirement. [LAT]
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:06 AM Author: Federal ungodly stead idiot How necessary is intermediate algebra, a high school-level course on factoring trinomials, graphing exponential functions and memorizing formulas that most non-math or science students will rarely use in everyday life or for the rest of college? http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-intermediate-algebra-qa-20170630-htmlstory.html "Diversity" leading to dumbing down of life. |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 5:48 AM Author: Low-t institution multi-billionaire half the college curriculum needs to go (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601502) |
Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:13 AM Author: Outnumbered 180 Theater "intermediate" algebra sounds a lot like HS Algebra I. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687806) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:15 AM Author: Federal ungodly stead idiot http://www.smc.edu/AcademicPrograms/Mathematics/Documents/Course_Documents/M20_Final_Rev.pdf (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687807) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:39 AM Author: Outnumbered 180 Theater Look at all of that patriarchy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687825) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 1:26 AM Author: Mint insane chapel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33799835) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 1:57 AM Author: provocative principal's office partner Damn i can't remember how to do some of this. I'm gonna be useless by the time my kids are taking this shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33799943) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:36 AM Author: Rambunctious Maroon Pit Messiness But gender studies is a must take course, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687820) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 8:03 AM Author: sienna cracking generalized bond hissy fit keep talking shit about gender theory (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35131178) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:47 AM Author: Sadistic public bath gaping Doesn't stats use algebra too? What about the big push for every minority to be "coding"? If you can't do basic algebra, you don't have a prayer of being able to code an app. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687830) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:53 AM Author: Rambunctious Maroon Pit Messiness Anyone going to a California public school is never going to do CS in the first place. It's all Mexicans now. They just need classes in custodial studies and security guard certification prep. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687832) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:09 AM Author: startled location psychic (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34633553) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:54 AM Author: Slap-happy stain trump supporter This is why we need a "vocational track". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687833) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:54 AM Author: Rambunctious Maroon Pit Messiness This is why Idiocracy was a 180 as fuck movie. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687834) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:58 AM Author: Rambunctious Maroon Pit Messiness Good luck with that in an age of automation, bro. Gazprom has a new undersea welding robot that's going to put 99% of its underwater welders out of a job. Underwater welding was like a $100 an hour gig. Every remotely decent vocational gig is going to a robot in the next 30 years.
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:56 AM Author: Rambunctious Maroon Pit Messiness I knew shit was going to get bad when they stopped teaching kids cursive so now we have a whole generation that cant even sign their own names with a freakin pen properly. Kids who couldnt bother to learn cursive cant be bothered to learn quadratic equations. Shit is a slippery slope. Meanwhile in China they come out of HS knowing more math than ARE math majors. LJL at America's future. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687837) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:57 AM Author: Federal ungodly stead idiot DESCRIBE russian cursive (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687838) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 8:12 AM Author: Outnumbered 180 Theater http://i.imgur.com/OxRbnYU.jpg (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687851) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 9:11 AM Author: lavender insecure main people i LOL'd (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687942) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 9:12 AM Author: Federal ungodly stead idiot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687946) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 3:21 AM Author: Laughsome Magenta Coldplay Fan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33800128) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:46 AM Author: Cocky Rigor Meetinghouse 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601343) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 4:54 AM Author: fuchsia patrolman step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35130833) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 4:57 AM Author: Violent hairraiser alpha lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35130836) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 7:46 AM Author: abnormal state (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35131128) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 1:48 PM Author: Grizzly awkward market In the computer age, who needs cursive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35132756) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 7:58 AM Author: Maize Trailer Park Dysfunction For shitliberal arts kids who will take only one math course, an equally rigorous stats course would be a better alternative, I think. It can really lend a lot of insight into life, and it might actually better prepare them to see though some of the bs they'll be served up in other classes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687840) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 8:00 AM Author: Rambunctious Maroon Pit Messiness You generally cant get a liberal arts degree without 1 math course (usually Calc I) and stats. Stats is a requirement even at most TTT colleges. You cant do your senior thesis is most majors without stats and usually econometrics on top of stats 101. This is why doing away with Algebra I is retarded. You cant do stats 101 without Algebra I. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687842) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 8:05 AM Author: Maize Trailer Park Dysfunction Guess you're right. It's just so basic to most of us that it's hard to believe the some kids need to taught it in college
Edit: OTOH, don't most of them have this under their belt, but they're too dumb to place into calc or even precalc, so they get relegated to repeating a high school course.
Most ttt schools I'm familiar with don't require stats for non social science majors |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 8:04 AM Author: Federal ungodly stead idiot If you can't do algebra you aren't doing shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687843) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:29 AM Author: violet shaky therapy black woman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34633674) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 1:27 AM Author: scarlet trust fund They wouldn't be smart enough for stats, either. You think they'll be able to grasp basic conditional probability? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33799840) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 9:00 AM Author: cowardly box office love of her life lmao most people at my school took algebra in middle school sad! |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 9:15 AM Author: lavender insecure main people i had algebra in 8th grade and calc BC in HS and I feel only extremely average in my MAFF skills (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687956) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 9:16 AM Author: Federal ungodly stead idiot Don't be shy, the phrase "extremely average" shows you are a mathematical fool. HTH. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687960) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 9:18 AM Author: mind-boggling bbw Hey bro how'd your math degree from UT work out for you? You're probably at some hedge fund or something right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33687965) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 2:14 AM Author: topaz useless brakes lmao brutal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33799984) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 3:06 AM Author: Up-to-no-good amber den headpube (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33800108) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:11 AM Author: startled location psychic lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34633560) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 7:48 AM Author: Tan Home Nowag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35131133) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2017 9:46 AM Author: brindle laser beams hunting ground I flat out told my high school algebra teacher that I was never going to use this shit so why were they making me learn it.
Today, in my white collar non-STEM office job, I regularly have to solve for X and use basic algebra. |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 12:49 AM Author: Federal ungodly stead idiot http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-california-community-colleges-algebra-20170717-story.html (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33799570) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 1:25 AM Author: scarlet trust fund Algebra legitimately arises in ordinary professional and semi-professional life (e.g., solving for an unknown, working with interest rates).
If you can't do basic algebra (which is what they're really talking about), then the degree shouldn't be called a college degree of any sort.
It also happens that algebra requires the ability to engage in formal, abstract thought, which is precisely one of the things we expect a "college" graduate to be able to do.
If you can't do that, what you're learning is either worthless or should be called vocational training. |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 3:16 AM Author: canary cruise ship Twist: they all should be doing vocational training (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33800121) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 4:55 AM Author: fuchsia patrolman step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35130834) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 1:27 AM Author: dashing casino can't remember the last time algebra or calculus was useful to me. better to learn stuff like personal finance and business, the legal system, healthcare, auto mechanics. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33799842) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 1:32 AM Author: scarlet trust fund You've never calculated accrual of interest over time or asked what rate you'll need to reach a goal? You've never solved for an unknown? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33799877) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 1:43 AM Author: dashing casino they have web calculators for that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33799926) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 2:25 AM Author: scarlet trust fund Dumbs wouldn't even know how to frame the issue and ask the question. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33800024) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 3:11 AM Author: titillating dark crotch whorehouse how are they going to do their chemistry and physics classes without basic algebra? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33800112) |
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Date: July 18th, 2017 3:39 AM Author: scarlet trust fund Tools of the cishetero patriarchy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33800147) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 8:57 PM Author: dashing casino "Back in the 1950s, Chuck Berry recorded 'School Days,' a song about the life of a typical high school student. It included the lines 'American history, practical math, you studyin' hard and hopin' to pass.' Practical math back then was a bedrock course in American high schools. You can still find courses in practical math today, but mostly in vocational or trade schools." "What happened to practical math? The one-word answer is Sputnik. The threat from advanced technology developed by the Soviet Union created a fear of a missile gap, and the powers that be decided that a concerted effort should be made to push engineering, science, and math. Engineering and science use advanced math, and algebra is the language of advanced math. In an attempt to respond to the technological challenge of Sputnik, practical math got phased out, and algebra got phased in." -The Smart Guide to Practical Math, by Jim Stein (2015) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 9:48 PM Author: bat shit crazy pozpig circlehead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33887474) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:15 AM Author: soggy house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601281) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:13 AM Author: startled location psychic Now listening to chuck berry all morning thank (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34633568) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 9:50 PM Author: Bipolar Fanboi Wagecucks Good. A college degree will become a stigma. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33887479) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 9:57 PM Author: blue godawful depressive Makes sense. College is basically HS at this point. We need to cater to the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33887508) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:06 PM Author: racy blathering hairy legs That's not David Lat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33887554) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:42 PM Author: slippery claret blood rage Teaching a pig to sing exasperates you and annoys the pig. Good riddance, dumbs only slow down the smart kids who want to learn. And like I have said before there is a huge gap between being able to "solve for x" on a test and being able to identify and formulate a real life problem in algebraic terms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33887846) |
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Date: July 30th, 2017 10:46 PM Author: disrespectful school Lol, it makes me mad that this shit is not on the SAT. It's basically a bunch of middle school level word problems, so you're ONE WRONG ARITHMETIC ERROR away from a 740. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#33887888) |
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Date: August 10th, 2017 1:08 PM Author: dashing casino "A good high school algebra course prepares you to do very well on the SAT test so that you can get into the college of your choice. It also helps you deal with problems involving trains headed toward each other at different speeds and their subsequent fates." "And just to be as direct as possible about the shortcomings of traditional algebra course content, it's quite typical that even the better students aren't able to make basic financing decisions later. They can solve lots of goofy artificial problems about trains, but they can't tell when changes in interest rates mean that they should think about a mortgage refinance, and they believe amazing and fantastically contradictory probability results." -Everyday Math for Dummies, by Charles Seiter |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:00 AM Author: dashing casino "Pre-algebra is the culmination of the math that average people really use." -The Complete Idiot's Guide to Pre-Algebra, by Szczepanski and Kositsky |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:02 AM Author: dashing casino "I never use one of algebra's most famous formulas, the quadratic formula, except when I'm teaching class. You certainly can find ways to use algebra and higher math in your everyday life if you try hard enough, but unless you're in a career that uses numbers, you can probably get away with avoiding it." -ibid |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:26 AM Author: Stirring Friendly Grandma Almost all the "math" I run across is not really even math, its just arithmetic. Stuff like calculating the present value of future payments.
The most complicated math I have EVER encountered as a lawyer are the various formulas for valuing options (e.g. Black-Scholes PDEs). |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:32 AM Author: maniacal bat-shit-crazy forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601313) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:35 AM Author: Stirring Friendly Grandma Depends on whether you subscribe to the classic definition of a college education or regard it as more like four years of training for the modern job market.
That classic education used to involve Latin/Greek and stuff like rhetoric and philosophy and I don't think they are requirements anymore. |
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Date: November 19th, 2017 12:19 PM Author: dashing casino According to this book, applied math basically falls into three categories: 1. basic arithmetic, used routinely everyday, usually with a 4-function calculator 2. vocational math for skilled trades like electricians and construction work 3. the math used in scientific and technical fields There arguably could be fourth category for business, financial and investing math. |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:21 AM Author: Stirring Friendly Grandma I have a math degree so I am as big a partisan of mathematics and mathematical education as anyone but I don't really see the point of making algebra a compulsory subject for college.
Why make people who will very likely never ever use it study it? Wouldn't they be better off studying something that they might use? |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:25 AM Author: maniacal bat-shit-crazy forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601301) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:29 AM Author: Stirring Friendly Grandma Then they should drop algebra to do more literacy.
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:43 AM Author: maniacal bat-shit-crazy forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601339) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:33 AM Author: chest-beating parlour why not throw out all hard science while we're at it, probably less than 2% of high school grads use chemistry or physics or bio
and why teach literature, just keep all english education to composition
and who "uses" history anyways
you learn things in high school not just b/c they're valuable but b/c we value them as a culture, or b/c it's important to "teach kids how to think" (e.g. scientifically or mathematically), or b/c they're necessary to move onto higher level work in that discipline, and it's valuable to teach kids those things to give them a chance to proceed to higher-level work |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:37 AM Author: Stirring Friendly Grandma I don't see whats wrong with someone who goes to college wanting to be say, an English teacher, not having to study any STEM subjects.
Just as if you want to be a mathematician why should you be forced to do anything other than mathematics? Why be forced to do some BS liberal arts subjects as fillers? |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:44 AM Author: chest-beating parlour so we're letting junior high kids pick their majors and careers now?
you didn't read my post. "usefulness" isn't the only reason we teach kids things. idgaf if a mathematician knows the details of the battle of hastings or remembers much shakespeare but he should be culturally-aware and should be taught to express himself effectively. and idgaf if an english prof knows how to do matrix algebra but he should be forced to do math beyond what he might find "immediately useful" to learn to think mathematically and analytically, and god forbid we should expose him as a middle school student to valuable knowledge that he might enjoy and want to continue with.
exposure to new areas of knowledge and testing kids' intellectual limits is an important part of pre-college ed. |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 8:10 AM Author: Appetizing kitchen haunted graveyard If college was about people only studying what they might use it would be two semesters max. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35131196) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:36 AM Author: Costumed talented school cafeteria mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601323) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:38 AM Author: Stirring Friendly Grandma Might be more useful to them in terms of getting a job than wasting four years on "communications", "gender theory" or "business studies". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601329) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:39 AM Author: Costumed talented school cafeteria mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601332) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:41 AM Author: Stirring Friendly Grandma I think the Germans do education very well with their system of technical tertiary education. Some of the more technical trades do require a decent brain. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601336) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 3:41 AM Author: maniacal bat-shit-crazy forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601337) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:14 AM Author: swashbuckling fighting space degenerate Germans respect blue collar work, dumbass. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34633579) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 5:35 AM Author: canary cruise ship The idea of general ed requirements in a degree would seem quite odd in most countries. The broad part of your education should be over after 18. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34601484) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:10 AM Author: comical newt he's right about rote memorization (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34633558) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:16 AM Author: startled location psychic If you’re learning math via rote memorization you’re doing it wrong. You learn math by solving problems. Rote memorization is for biology. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34633593) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:18 AM Author: comical newt Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34633603) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 11:55 AM Author: dashing casino People would be better off learning things like personal finance, the legal system, health care, auto repair, home maintenance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#34634448) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 4:34 AM Author: dashing casino Those wanting to review their pre-algebra may want to check out Math Doesn't Suck: How to Survive Middle School Math without Losing Your Mind or Breaking a Nail, by Danica McKellar. The author is an actress who I haven't heard of but she's been in some TV shows. The book is aimed at tween girls and is written in a chatty, informal way that some people might find helpful. Pre-algebra is basically fractions, decimals, and percents, and some related topics like unit conversions, proportions, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35130808) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 4:36 AM Author: Federal ungodly stead idiot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35130812) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 4:47 AM Author: Vigorous Organic Girlfriend what's the answer to the polynomial simplification in the article? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35130828) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 8:14 AM Author: Violent hairraiser alpha [5(x-3)]/[x^2(y+6)], I think (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35131209) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 7:59 AM Author: Onyx Garrison Libs won’t be happy until all real learning is canned in favor of indoctrination and tranny/minority studies (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35131165) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 1:41 PM Author: dashing casino "Libs" "happy" |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 8:08 AM Author: Appetizing kitchen haunted graveyard Math is one of the fundamental keys to understanding the world.
Most people also don't need to know about the Golgi Apparatus or inert gasses in their everyday lives either. Should we cut biology and chemistry too? |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 1:39 PM Author: dashing casino yep (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35132684) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 1:53 PM Author: razzle saffron travel guidebook I hated linear algebra and multivariable calculus, but its actually pretty practical for statistics, machine learning, things like that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35132783) |
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Date: January 11th, 2018 2:04 PM Author: dashing casino yep sounds pretty practical (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35132906) |
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Date: April 20th, 2018 10:45 PM Author: scarlet trust fund For many, college needs to be retired as a requirement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3663788&forum_id=2#35886039) |