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JUDGE POSNER ADMITS TO DECIDING CASES ON THE BASIS OF FAIRNESS, NOT LAW
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Date: September 15th, 2017 10:51 AM Author: Slippery corner https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/11/us/politics/judge-richard-posner-retirement.html
He called his approach to judging pragmatic. His critics called it lawless. “I pay very little attention to legal rules, statutes, constitutional provisions,” Judge Posner said. “A case is just a dispute. The first thing you do is ask yourself — forget about the law — what is a sensible resolution of this dispute?”
The next thing, he said, was to see if a recent Supreme Court precedent or some other legal obstacle stood in the way of ruling in favor of that sensible resolution. “And the answer is that’s actually rarely the case,” he said. “When you have a Supreme Court case or something similar, they’re often extremely easy to get around.” |
Date: September 15th, 2017 10:51 AM Author: Geriatric Lilac Set Awesome. As they should be (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34216956) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:35 PM Author: Fluffy apoplectic heaven ratface Horseshit.
That's terrible for for predictability. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:36 PM Author: Geriatric Lilac Set Jajajajaja (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218676) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:40 PM Author: fiercely-loyal kitty cat box office just predict what's fair (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218695) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:45 PM Author: Fluffy apoplectic heaven ratface Flame or not flame?
If not flame, that's largely what structured law is for.
It provides the rules for determining what's fair. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:45 PM Author: Geriatric Lilac Set Laws aren't fair though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218731) |
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Date: October 16th, 2017 7:12 PM Author: Slippery corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34458247) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 7:22 PM Author: Slippery corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34220653) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 10:53 AM Author: costumed trailer park giraffe judges like this are why you settle litigation. i have appeared before this one federal judge where you can literally show them their own published cases saying "Point of Law X" on the exact same facts, sometimes with the exact same parties, and they will say "I think I'm going to rule Point of Law Not X because it feels right."
charlatans. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 10:56 AM Author: Slippery corner but didnt he masquerade his feeling of "right" with a plethora of legal citations ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217001) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 1:32 PM Author: costumed trailer park giraffe Posner did. The judge(s) I'm talking about rule from the bench and never issue anything in writing other than the transcript so that they can't be reversed on appeal or ever called out (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218203) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:23 AM Author: claret stag film dog poop (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217241) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:31 AM Author: floppy rigpig legend Truff, bro. Judges like this are also why the Russian way of just firing a few AK clips into the judges car with him in it is by far the credited response. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217278) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:37 AM Author: Galvanic fighting locale Some day you will get arrested for what you write. It will make me happy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217315) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:40 AM Author: Very Tactful Theatre Therapy (mentally ill fascist shitlib) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217333) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:42 AM Author: floppy rigpig legend Before or after Red Dawn? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217336) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:16 PM Author: razzmatazz shaky kitchen dingle berry (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226787) |
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Date: October 16th, 2017 8:04 PM Author: Federal unholy plaza Had a judge say he was going to limit our depositions to 16 because his birthday was on the 16th. Seems fair (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34458568) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 10:57 AM Author: trip indigo ladyboy DESCRIBE the amount of projection in these statements:
----- “I pay very little attention to legal rules, statutes, constitutional provisions,” Judge Posner said. “A case is just a dispute. The first thing you do is ask yourself — forget about the law — what is a sensible resolution of this dispute?”
The next thing, he said, was to see if a recent Supreme Court precedent or some other legal obstacle stood in the way of ruling in favor of that sensible resolution. “And the answer is that’s actually rarely the case,” he said. “When you have a Supreme Court case or something similar, they’re often extremely easy to get around.”
I asked him about his critics, and he said they fell into two camps.
***
He said he had less sympathy for the second camp. “There are others who are just, you know, reactionary beasts,” he said. “They’re reactionary beasts because they want to manipulate the statutes and the Constitution in their own way. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:02 AM Author: spectacular dead brunch depressive this is why judges need to be intimidated (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217057) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:04 AM Author: Black hateful theater stage messiness should be impeached. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217065) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:22 AM Author: bipolar step-uncle's house liquid oxygen He retired. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217221) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:40 PM Author: fiercely-loyal kitty cat box office he retired (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218701) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 7:24 PM Author: Mischievous legal warrant boiling water *imprisoned (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34220667) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:22 AM Author: claret stag film dog poop this is exactly why us law is a national embarrassment (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217231) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:24 AM Author: iridescent den bbw He has been running this schtick for literally decades. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217248) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:27 AM Author: appetizing doctorate nursing home lol @ "the law" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217260) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:32 AM Author: self-absorbed pervert That's always bee his schtick (except that "fairness" to him means "economic rationality"), and the main reason he sucks. This shouldn't be a surprise. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217288) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:35 AM Author: Slippery corner this doesnt suck--he is talking reality--judges dont really decide cases based on what 18 USC 2340 says, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217302) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:36 AM Author: self-absorbed pervert Yes it does, because it fucks up the law for all the other litigants that actually try to fucking follow the law (or at least act according to the law). You look at the law, and it's pretty clear on one point or another, but there's this shit Posner case out there that fucks everything up and injects uncertainty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217307) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:38 AM Author: iridescent den bbw I agree with all this. In fairness, though, Posner's vaunted pragmatism doesn't appear to have influenced how he actually decided cases all that much, as an empirical matter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217317) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:53 PM Author: Blathering Plum Business Firm link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218779) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 3:48 PM Author: iridescent den bbw Daniel A. Farber, Do Theories of Statutory Interpretation Matter--A Case Study, 94 Nw. U. L. Rev. 1409 (1999), Available at: http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/facpubs/1724 |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:42 AM Author: Slippery corner But aren't you assuming that there is actually a formalist conception of law? Isn't law at the end of the day a matter of interpretation?
like whether a doctor violated the standard of care in a malpractice suit--isn't that all interpretation? |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:43 AM Author: self-absorbed pervert That doesn't mean any old interpretation is just as valid as any other interpretation. Jesus are you still a law student after 10 years? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217350) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:49 AM Author: iridescent den bbw Careful he is leading you down a subthread wasteland. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217381) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:53 PM Author: Blathering Plum Business Firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218782) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:35 AM Author: Bistre fat ankles It would be funny to see Posner's reaction from the other side of the bench when some judge told him "I'm not concerned about what the law says, I'm looking for the reasonable solution here. Also I will bring in my own evidence from outside the record to support my conclusion." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217303) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:36 AM Author: Galvanic fighting locale Old England had courts of equity. If you could not get justice in the court of law, you went to the court of equity. This isn't all that earth shattering. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217308) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:38 AM Author: floppy rigpig legend And in Russia you just blow up the dude giving you a problem. Makes for a mich more civil society when you just kill dudes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217324) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:48 AM Author: Fuchsia deep principal's office voyeur (pudgy dork with a compliance job) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217377) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:21 AM Author: sticky genital piercing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34222985) |
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Date: September 17th, 2017 5:42 PM Author: Slippery corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34231097) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:39 AM Author: iridescent den bbw That's not at all how the equity - law divide worked. Wtf. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217325) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:36 PM Author: Fluffy apoplectic heaven ratface So let equity swallow it all?
Maybe.
But even the exercise of equity is (or at least should be) subject to principles of law. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:49 AM Author: flirting vermilion trump supporter Just like every other judge in Amerikwa (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217382) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 1:18 PM Author: Slippery corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218046) |
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Date: September 20th, 2017 10:59 AM Author: Slippery corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34250150) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:34 PM Author: Swashbuckling home volcanic crater This "forget about the law" thinking is how you end up with rulings like the Title VII case where the Seventh Circuit said a law that explicitly bans gender and racial discrimination also implicitly bans discrimination based on sexual orientation, even though the law doesn't say anything about that.
Why even have a legislature if the judges are just going to do whatever they want, laws and Constitution be damned? If Posner's retirement means we get a new judge who will predictably and faithfully follow the law, then good riddance. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:50 PM Author: self-absorbed pervert To be fair, sexual orientation discrimination is gender-based discrimination in 90% of cases. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218764) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:37 PM Author: crusty snowy patrolman crackhouse The "law" States that if your 6 year old son demands to be a girl you will have the state take him and feed him estrogen if you refuse.
Ljl at our "laws", what a joke.
I love reactionary dandies like this judge. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:54 PM Author: glittery haunted graveyard OMG THAT'S SO ZEN AND ICONOCLASTIC. SO 'PRAGMATIC'! HEHEHEHE |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 3:49 PM Author: Very Tactful Theatre Therapy moar like pozner amirite (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34219138) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 7:28 PM Author: glittery haunted graveyard 'THE LAW' IS FOR THE LITTLE PEOPLE, THE PLEBES. I AM ABOVE THE LAW. I AM PURE. I ABIDE BY A HIGHER TRANSENDENT STANDARD OF COMSIC JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS. OOOOH LOOK AT MY ROBES! I'M LIKE A WIZARD! |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 7:32 PM Author: pink wagecucks national security agency imagine having a 7th cir argument in front of Posner or Easterbrook.
you'd tell your client, "look, they are going to ignore all the facts and law we've been arguing about for years. they're just going to do whatever they want. and there's a good chance they will trash me, trash opposing counsel, or both of us, just for fun." |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 8:06 PM Author: iridescent den bbw (Albert Alschuler) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34220841) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:32 AM Author: talented aquamarine idea he suggested karate Not earth shattering legal advice. Counseled clients into settlements for similar reasons in 9th circuit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34223018) |
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Date: September 17th, 2017 6:15 PM Author: Buck-toothed shrine cuckoldry God, the terror of having to make a practical argument. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34231248) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 9:42 PM Author: Fluffy apoplectic heaven ratface Dear Posner,
Did anyone ever tell you that you think far too much of your legal writing abilities? |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 8:53 PM Author: Slippery corner elaborate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226371) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 9:56 PM Author: Fluffy apoplectic heaven ratface The best legal writing has a strong, logical, well structured heart.
In addition to playing fast and loose with the facts, Posner sacrifices much of that in service to his goal of telling simple stories for the masses.
That's not a call for jargon or any such nonsense. Posner simply isn't as good a writer as some other notable judges, but Posner doesn't seem to understand that. |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 9:59 PM Author: iridescent den bbw (Selya) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226694) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:04 PM Author: Fluffy apoplectic heaven ratface A nut from a different tree. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226723) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:09 PM Author: iridescent den bbw I'm partial to Friendly's method of writing opinions, but it is an acquired taste.
I'd rank Easterbrook over Posner on the Seventh Circuit. This includes both opinions and scholarship.
Some DC Cir. judges are good, but boring.
To name some ladies of the bar, I've been favorably impressed by King (5th Cir.) and Kearse (2d Cir.).
Did you ever try to read Posner's N.D. Il. damages opinions (he sought to sit by designation a few times)? |
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Date: September 17th, 2017 7:23 PM Author: hyperactive native hominid Kill yourself. Selya is awesome. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34231577) |
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Date: September 17th, 2017 7:35 PM Author: iridescent den bbw ? I like Selya. Was just trying to think of who might level this type of charge at Posner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34231633) |
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Date: September 17th, 2017 7:47 PM Author: hyperactive native hominid *heaves sigh of relief* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34231675) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:54 PM Author: topaz bearded windowlicker This is why he got magna-pwned. Prescient HLS faculty wanted to put him in his place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226953) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 9:26 PM Author: rusted bespoke sweet tailpipe brethren Kennedy, J., concurring (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226532) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:46 PM Author: frozen goal in life dilemma Good to have a smart guy inside the judiciary who's willing to speak up when something doesn't make sense. You guys want judges like Scalia who talk about the letter of the law disingenuously and reach whatever result they want? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226906) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:56 PM Author: glittery haunted graveyard can't stop lolling at 'the law' what a joke |
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Date: September 20th, 2017 11:00 AM Author: Vibrant canary office foreskin think there was something about this on last Saturday's LSAT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34250158) |
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Date: September 28th, 2017 3:23 PM Author: Slippery corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34318718) |