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one of the greatest gifts in life is a 180 sibling
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:29 AM Author: maize menage it's like having someone on your team forever, no matter what (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633670) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:32 AM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse without the typical annoyances/baggage of parents. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633700) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:33 AM Author: maize menage yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633709) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:43 PM Author: house-broken cyan indian lodge lol @ parents always being on your team. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635692) |
Date: November 8th, 2017 10:30 AM Author: Talented thirsty institution My sister has a 100 IQ and is a huge shitlib. It's complete flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633684) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:31 AM Author: maize menage how old is she (no doobs) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633689) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:34 AM Author: Talented thirsty institution 4 or 5 years older than I am (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633719) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:35 AM Author: maize menage interesting dynamic - libby older sister, conservahero lil bro
do you run conservative with the pack or are you an alex p keaton type |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:37 AM Author: Talented thirsty institution Discussing politics is frowned upon in the family but my dad has gotten red pilled in obamas second term (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633739) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:39 AM Author: maize menage like she's smug and sips her la croix really loud (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633753) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:44 AM Author: Talented thirsty institution No smug in a very passive aggressive way but also retarded enough to believe that we don't have free health care (which is a human right) because republicans are Voldemort (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633793) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:44 AM Author: maize menage does she talk down to you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633796) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:46 AM Author: Talented thirsty institution No she knows I'm smarter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633806) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:51 AM Author: maize menage must suck for her
could you see you two having a better relationship at some point
or just no desire |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:36 PM Author: Talented thirsty institution Our relationship is fine all things considered (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635636) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:38 PM Author: maize menage does she know you're gay (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635644) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:38 PM Author: Claret immigrant principal's office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635649) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:39 PM Author: Sinister Faggot Firefighter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635659) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:32 AM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse I imagine opposite sex siblings have a harder time bonding.
But same sex siblings are more likely to feel competitive.
Unsure what's true in aggregate. |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:05 PM Author: Mildly autistic indirect expression whorehouse second sibling will likely have given up the competition before high school has even started (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635878) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:14 PM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse My sister and I stopped comparing/fighting by middle school. Varies depends on age gap and so many other dynamics. My husband and his brother (wasn't in our groomsmen lineup) have a bit of a competition going to this day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635942) |
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Date: May 7th, 2018 5:31 PM Author: Bull headed parlor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#36001613) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:31 AM Author: Claret immigrant principal's office (functional family haver) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633688) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:33 AM Author: maize menage meh not really - this is one of those things where the siblings form an alliance against unstable parents (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633707) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:36 AM Author: big-titted purple forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633732) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:31 AM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse My sister is my best friend and vice versa. We were each other's maid(matron) of honor. Best present from my parents.
I completely agree. I really pity families where this is not the case. |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:34 AM Author: Claret immigrant principal's office families where all constituents are mentally ill (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633716) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:34 AM Author: maize menage have you ever gone on a sisters only vacation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633720) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:35 AM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse Not really. She'd come and visit often during those few years when she was still living with parents but I moved out though (I'm older). Does that count?
Come to think of it, I've never vacationed without a SO (unless you include family trips). |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:44 AM Author: maize menage I think an actual sibs trip would be the best - I formed babby and now that feels like a distant possibility
maybe someday |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:44 AM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse Yea it would be awesome. I formed babby too so not very likely now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633795) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:48 AM Author: maize menage do you like her husband (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633822) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:48 AM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse i like her husband. my mom would've preferred him being a little less white but he is white as fuck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633824) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:52 AM Author: maize menage does he attempt to acclimate and get down with you're cultural stuff (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633849) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:53 AM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse he's a really good guy and he says a couple chinese words now but he will always be just white as fuck cause he's just fucking bleached white white bread white. they also live in 95%+ white area. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633859) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:56 AM Author: maize menage why do you think your sister went off script (went with whitey) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633880) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:58 AM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse i think nyuug and uvt are the most sexually appealing men on the planet and i avidly support (and ultimately did) agwag but agwwg seems more "on script" amongst 2nd gen asians, especially outside areas with a lot of asians. What is "on script"? Typical? By the book? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633904) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:38 PM Author: maize menage I figured asian marrying asian was on-script (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635650) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:36 AM Author: Harsh copper mental disorder My sibling is a disaster and a huge source of frustration. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633729) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:43 AM Author: maize menage :( that's a huge bummer
I have a sibling who I'll never really get along with and who has a lot of issues that cause everyone a lot of grief - have sort of come to terms with the fact that I just won't ever get what I want out of a relationship with her
sucks to face that - I have one 180 sibling out of three, which I think is incredibly lucky
sorry about you're sis |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:38 AM Author: Embarrassed to the bone cruel-hearted property ape https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633743) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:45 AM Author: maize menage oh boy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633800) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:45 AM Author: Nudist cruise ship how can I convince my brother to move home :( (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633801) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:46 AM Author: maize menage come down with something debilitating (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633809) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:48 AM Author: Nudist cruise ship hm seems suboptimal but I am open to suggestions (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633823) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:50 AM Author: maize menage agoraphobia
if you get a good case of it then he'd have to visit you at your house |
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Date: May 7th, 2018 5:32 PM Author: Bull headed parlor tell him you're pregnant (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#36001620) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:49 AM Author: rambunctious dog poop hospital Yes, it’s good to have a good bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633826) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:54 AM Author: maize menage assuming this means you do ...
age difference? were there ever times when you drifted apart? if so, what brought you back together? |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:53 AM Author: big-titted purple forum I honestly wish i had a normal,supportive sibling more than i wish i had normal parents. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633857) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:55 AM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse yea it's more useful as they're more current and less risk averse (than parents are with children). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633868) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:55 AM Author: maize menage I didn't have it until my 180 sibling turned 21 and we could hang like adults - before that I was kind a rootless sib/child
where are you in terms of birth order? |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:43 PM Author: big-titted purple forum Welp, thats not an easy question to answer
Technically im the only child my biological parents had together
However, due to the fact that my mother has been married 5x and my dad 3x and i have had step and half siblings on both sides, i have at one point or another been the oldest, middle, and youngest child in the household.
So... im all of them and none? =)
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:46 PM Author: maize menage whoa
is my first response
am going to think of other Qs - very curious about this dynamic, although on bort you've given the impression that all of this was pretty fucked up and shitty and sad stuff so I don't want to drag you down
that's a lot of step-people to onboard |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:48 PM Author: big-titted purple forum You can ask any questions you want
Im pretty happy and satisfied w life today, you wont bring ne down |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:51 PM Author: maize menage how many of the marriages occurred after you left home?
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:59 PM Author: big-titted purple forum Technically two. My dads third marriage happened when i was 24ish. My mothers 5th marriage happened when i was 20 or so but she had moved back in w him when i was 18 i think? (She remarried the guy that had been her 3rd husband)
Also, my mothers first marriage was before i was born. |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:01 PM Author: maize menage did this mean you had to move a lot or were you able to stay mostly in the same place/area (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635847) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:05 PM Author: big-titted purple forum I lived in 3 diff towns growing up
I lived w mom n dad til 2. They divorced and i moved w mom and stepdad to a diff town.
When i was 9 they divorced and me and mom and half bro moved in w grandparents in a diff town
When i was 10 mom remarried so i moved in w my dad (who was still living in same town i was born in) and brother stayed w grandparents in a diff town
Lived in that town til i graduated HS, though my dad divorced my stepmom when i was 17 and we moved out, i finished hs there |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:14 PM Author: maize menage is the half bro you mention above your closest sibling (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635937) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:15 PM Author: big-titted purple forum No
Intentionally havent spoken to him in years. Hes not a good person and we have nothing in common
I dont have much of arelationship w any of them. Started talking to my younger half bro (product of dads 2nd marriage) again earlier this year after not speaking for 3-4 years
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:16 PM Author: maize menage really shitty that given all the permutations of possible bonds nothing stuck, especially since it's clear you were put through so much - wish you'd gotten a ride or die out of the experience (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635955) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:21 PM Author: big-titted purple forum Yeah my life until this point would have been considerably easier to cope with had i had someone to be there for me
That being said, i wouldnt wish my childhood on anyone so in a way its a good thing
My younger half brother had it way worse than me in a way bc his mom (my dads 2nd wife) is completely psycho and abusive etc and he turned out way worse than i have bc he has lived w her his entire life (i only lived w her for like 6 yrs) He will never have a normal life. I have some issues but im mostly ok. |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:23 PM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse how is your relationship with either biological parent at this point? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635990) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:31 PM Author: big-titted purple forum My father is an enormous asshole and we have a strained but almost civil relationship these days. I see him maybe 3 or 4 times a year and talk to him on the phone about once a month.
I havent had a relationship w my mother for most of my adult life. I did see her once this year. |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:35 PM Author: Fighting Sandwich Crackhouse Yikes....did you develop a decent relationship with any of the step-parents? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34636055) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:39 PM Author: big-titted purple forum Nope
One stepmother i had was extremely abusive toward me
One of my stepfathers was civil toward me but was beating my mother regularly when i wasnt around. I rarely saw her and didn't know about that until later in childhood
My other stepfather from when i was small is not a terrible person. Didnt abuse anyone anyway. |
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Date: May 7th, 2018 5:33 PM Author: Bull headed parlor mmm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#36001622) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 10:55 AM Author: Vivacious salmon school azn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633869) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 11:00 AM Author: Nudist cruise ship xo has a real mix of "parents are worst people on earth" threads and "your parents just love you and want you to be happy but you aren't" threads. Basically takes the most toxic of both possibilities (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34633928) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:32 PM Author: big-titted purple forum If your parents were 125 instead of 180 youd understand why (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34636040) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:37 PM Author: 180 stage cuck Without my one good sibling I'd surely be a rotter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635639) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:38 PM Author: maize menage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635652) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:42 PM Author: glittery field community account I have one older sister and we get along really well. I always wanted a brother though (not instead, but also) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635686) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:44 PM Author: maize menage did you have crushes on her friends when you were younger? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635697) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:45 PM Author: glittery field community account Of course. She's 5 years older than me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635710) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:47 PM Author: maize menage how has having a close older sister impacted your relationships with women in general (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635728) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:53 PM Author: glittery field community account I don't know, not that much I guess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635787) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:44 PM Author: Wonderful aquamarine personal credit line My brother and I couldn't be more different, but the bond we share from growing up together with a pretty quirky but well meaning dad has created a 180 bond. It's my second-closest relationship after my wife. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635702) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:46 PM Author: Talented thirsty institution Cr, the bond between an AZNgirl and her handsome is the strongest bond known to man. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635715) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:49 PM Author: maize menage do you two bro out and do cool bro shit together (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635739) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:52 PM Author: Wonderful aquamarine personal credit line We live far apart and have different interests, but are in touch a few times/week. I also work about 3x as much as he does, so our lives are very different. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635767) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:53 PM Author: maize menage even cooler then that you manage to maintain a great relationship (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635784) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:56 PM Author: Wonderful aquamarine personal credit line He's a good dude. No one knows me better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635811) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:56 PM Author: maize menage what are you hiding from you're wife (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635815) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:58 PM Author: Wonderful aquamarine personal credit line Nothing other than porn preferences and how much I spend on wine.
I just meant that he had a bedroom next to mine for 14 years and went on all the same trips, etc. Saw my parents at their bests and worsts. Can't replicate that. |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:02 PM Author: maize menage oh was hoping to get some juice here
all is well, carry on :) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:03 PM Author: Vivacious salmon school azn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635863) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:45 PM Author: Sadistic aphrodisiac address UNGGH (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635709) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:48 PM Author: maize menage is this an incest unggh (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635737) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:00 PM Author: Appetizing garrison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635843) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 2:50 PM Author: tan rehab nowag only if same sex but yeah (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635753) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:00 PM Author: Iridescent bawdyhouse this has been a part of my depression.
i have a 180 sibling.
but he's pretty much cut me out. i don't get invites to stuff, and i see pics on FB with him, his friends, and a *complete* aspie, and it hurts so, so bad. |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:02 PM Author: maize menage when did the cutoff occur (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635857) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:10 PM Author: Iridescent bawdyhouse i think about 2 years ago.
we used to hang out a ton. |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:15 PM Author: maize menage if you were to give a reasonable, non-xo ("I dindu nothing wrong, it's all the other person") explanation for the cutoff, what would it be (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635950) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:35 PM Author: Iridescent bawdyhouse i think he gets embarrassed when i'm drunk, and feels culpable. people around me don't get it and think i should be some kind of superstar. they really don't understand. it's just different standards. i also think my family might have said something to him, like not to invite me out. funny thing is, he's not much different than i was at his age (he's a good bit younger). he gets hammered. falls asleep at bars, etc. my family loves him, though, because he was a great athlete and is really good looking, so he's always gotten way more leeway even though he never finished college. with me, it's always pressure to be perfect. he doesn't have that. anyway, i accept blame for being a drunk and probably embarrassing him a few times. but he's done the same. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34636056) |
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Date: May 7th, 2018 5:57 PM Author: fragrant house Could there be a girlfriend he’s hiding and/or is he really deep into dating apps? Do you get along with his friends before you get super drunk? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#36001862) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:04 PM Author: Vivacious salmon school azn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635869) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:05 PM Author: glittery field community account That sucks. This is a really sad poast. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635877) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:11 PM Author: 180 stage cuck Sucks. Sorry friend. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635917) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 4:32 PM Author: Iridescent bawdyhouse tyvm, friend. you're a good man.
everyone knows i have multiple aspects of my life that aren't great. sometimes things can turn around when you least expect it. hoping for that.
in the meantime, i just listen to shangri-la by the kinks on loop. one of the greatest mockeries of global capitalism. ray davies really foresaw it all.
i've also realized i absolutely have to do something creative or i will die. it's the only thing that energizes me, and i've been without it for sooooo long. |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 4:40 PM Author: 180 stage cuck That's a good thing to realize. Spend an hour, come up with a project, then get to it! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34636447) |
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Date: May 7th, 2018 5:33 PM Author: Bull headed parlor does he not trust you or not think you are on his team? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#36001630) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:06 PM Author: Mildly autistic indirect expression whorehouse Agreed. My brother was my best man. He's covafefe levels of red pilled, but whatever. Blood is thicker than water. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635881) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:11 PM Author: 180 stage cuck What's his moniker? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#34635914) |
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Date: November 8th, 2017 3:49 PM Author: green pungent location milk give him our thoughts and prayers
lol hard to imagine putting up with a shitlib "male" family member |
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Date: May 7th, 2018 5:32 PM Author: house-broken cyan indian lodge Cr. My brother is my best friend. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3789562&forum_id=2#36001617) |