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Most of the Amazon's massive write-off came from high-level executives cashing i

According to Gardner’s analysis of Amazon’s 10-K filing, mos...
Fiercely-loyal Vigorous Hominid Rehab
  04/08/18
Said it before and I'll say it again...
frisky mad cow disease toilet seat
  04/08/18
...
Wonderful deranged den
  04/08/18
Why does this seem egregious to you? The relevant principle ...
Floppy principal's office trust fund
  04/08/18
Hold up lemme save you the time: ((( )))
Floppy principal's office trust fund
  04/08/18
...
Thriller alpha
  04/08/18
...
aphrodisiac dilemma
  04/08/18
...
Adventurous casino
  05/21/18
...
provocative cruise ship
  05/21/18
I assumed a lawmo would have some insight here. What would t...
Fiercely-loyal Vigorous Hominid Rehab
  04/08/18
hard to say. youre not alone in having the thought process t...
Floppy principal's office trust fund
  04/08/18
disincentive to use stock options which obviously are an eff...
navy international law enforcement agency
  05/21/18
It seems like the incentive is to run a non-profitable reven...
frisky mad cow disease toilet seat
  04/08/18
...
Thriller alpha
  04/08/18
well stocks (and bonds and every other asset) are ultimately...
Floppy principal's office trust fund
  04/08/18
ur just regurgitating stuff you read in a textbook.
stirring mental disorder resort
  04/08/18
ok this board has waaaaay too many retarded people to be ...
Floppy principal's office trust fund
  04/08/18
The IQ obsession indicates that there are lots of retarded p...
Fiercely-loyal Vigorous Hominid Rehab
  04/08/18
agreed
Floppy principal's office trust fund
  04/08/18
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rCZRqH7sRyA
Autistic senate
  04/08/18
Donald Trump said he's "smart" by not paying incom...
Thirsty chestnut garrison athletic conference
  04/08/18
lmao nobody is arguing that it isn't smart to offset against...
ebony telephone space
  04/08/18
...
Fiercely-loyal Vigorous Hominid Rehab
  04/08/18
lmao there's always some pissy amazon employee in these thre...
Pontificating public bath
  04/08/18
everyone hostile to “i’m mad as fuck at the world but i’m to...
Floppy principal's office trust fund
  04/08/18
...
Floppy principal's office trust fund
  04/09/18
isn't this an INCREASE in taxes collected by the govt? emplo...
talking talented main people
  05/21/18
no, because they just write it off
Drunken low-t prole
  05/21/18


Poast new message in this thread



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Date: April 8th, 2018 10:22 AM
Author: Fiercely-loyal Vigorous Hominid Rehab

According to Gardner’s analysis of Amazon’s 10-K filing, most of the company’s massive write-off—nearly $1 billion—came from high-level executives cashing in stock options. That’s right: When employees sell their stock, employers get to claim the entire value of that deduction. Say the company gave a VP $1 million in stock in 2008, when it was valued at around $70 a share. Those stocks would be worth more than $20 million if cashed out now—and Amazon could take the whole thing as a write-off. According its 10-K filing, Amazon’s execs cashed out nearly $1 billion in stock options last year, negating most of the year’s federal tax bill.

https://newfoodeconomy.org/amazon-whole-foods-a-whole-federal-tax-doorbell-ring/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35790837)



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Date: April 8th, 2018 10:23 AM
Author: frisky mad cow disease toilet seat

Said it before and I'll say it again...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35790841)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2018 12:09 PM
Author: Wonderful deranged den



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35791400)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2018 10:24 AM
Author: Floppy principal's office trust fund

Why does this seem egregious to you? The relevant principle here is you pay tax on profits, not just revenues. I assume this seems fair to you.

How do you calculate the value of compensation paid on employee stock options? Is it (a) the value of the options upon issuance (using black-scholes, so based on stock price volatility, prevailing interest rates, etc) or (b) the value of the underlying shares whenever employees actually exercise the options? GAAP says (a) but the IRS says (b).

The “write off” here (write off is the wrong term) is from Amazon’s stock skyrocketing during the period after the options were issued and when the employees exercised them. Basically they took a deduction for accounting taxes (but not cash taxes) upon issuing the options and then adjusted for actual cash tax savings upon issuing the shares.

The value being transferred from shareholders to employees is obviously higher when the stock price is higher - why shouldn’t the shareholders benefit from a proportionate deduction on compensation expense??

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35790844)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2018 10:36 AM
Author: Floppy principal's office trust fund

Hold up lemme save you the time:

((( )))



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35790890)



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Date: April 8th, 2018 12:11 PM
Author: Thriller alpha



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35791414)



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Date: April 8th, 2018 11:02 PM
Author: aphrodisiac dilemma



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35795855)



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Date: May 21st, 2018 5:55 PM
Author: Adventurous casino



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#36099319)



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Date: May 21st, 2018 6:04 PM
Author: provocative cruise ship



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#36099375)



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Date: April 8th, 2018 12:06 PM
Author: Fiercely-loyal Vigorous Hominid Rehab

I assumed a lawmo would have some insight here. What would the effect be if companies could only write off the value upon issuance and not adjust for the exercised value?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35791375)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2018 1:09 PM
Author: Floppy principal's office trust fund

hard to say. youre not alone in having the thought process that led to this question tho: it seems unfair to let companies pay employees compensation worth X but then deduct a number >>> X when they actually issue the stock.

then again im sure there are a bunch of employees at GE with $60 strike price options that'll happily confirm that you don't always get to exercise employee stock options.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35791739)



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Date: May 21st, 2018 5:54 PM
Author: navy international law enforcement agency

disincentive to use stock options which obviously are an effective tool in encouraging management to maximize shareholder value in the long term



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#36099308)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2018 12:09 PM
Author: frisky mad cow disease toilet seat

It seems like the incentive is to run a non-profitable revenue growth company and to use your stock as currency, where the stock is valued off of growth in revenue and not profits (net income). Given a long enough time scale this creates extreme distortions

Having stock be used as currency to pay for acquisitions, pay employees and to raise capital to continue profit-less revenue growth distorts markets and value.

The extreme example of this is what AOL did with Time-Warner - used their ridiculously overvalued stock as currency to acquire an actually profitable company and look what happened.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35791408)



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Date: April 8th, 2018 12:11 PM
Author: Thriller alpha



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35791417)



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Date: April 8th, 2018 1:13 PM
Author: Floppy principal's office trust fund

well stocks (and bonds and every other asset) are ultimately only valued based on cash flow. you can't eat net income.

early stage tech and pharma companies are valued based on revenue (or other metrics like page views), but only as a proxy for future cash flow. you can't actually not generate cash flow into perpetuity (ask elon musk).

amazon is a special case because people saw its immense potential relatively quickly - 99.999% of companies couldn't recreate their approach to stock based comp and stuff

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35791768)



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Date: April 8th, 2018 1:20 PM
Author: stirring mental disorder resort

ur just regurgitating stuff you read in a textbook.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35791787)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2018 1:30 PM
Author: Floppy principal's office trust fund

ok

this board has waaaaay too many retarded people to be so obsessed with iq lmao

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35791863)



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Date: April 8th, 2018 2:19 PM
Author: Fiercely-loyal Vigorous Hominid Rehab

The IQ obsession indicates that there are lots of retarded people on here

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35792177)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2018 2:26 PM
Author: Floppy principal's office trust fund

agreed

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35792228)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2018 10:25 AM
Author: Autistic senate

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rCZRqH7sRyA

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35790848)



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Date: April 8th, 2018 12:07 PM
Author: Thirsty chestnut garrison athletic conference

Donald Trump said he's "smart" by not paying income taxes — and argued that if he did, the money would be "squandered."

Trump's jaw-dropping statements came after Hillary Clinton launched a fiery attack on the Republican presidential nominee for breaking a four-decade tradition of White House aspirants releasing their federal income tax returns.

"The only years that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license, and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax," Clinton said.

Trump quickly retorted: "That makes me smart."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35791388)



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Date: April 8th, 2018 12:11 PM
Author: ebony telephone space

lmao nobody is arguing that it isn't smart to offset against taxable income.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35791418)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2018 9:37 PM
Author: Fiercely-loyal Vigorous Hominid Rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35795155)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2018 11:04 PM
Author: Pontificating public bath

lmao there's always some pissy amazon employee in these threads

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35795879)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2018 11:32 PM
Author: Floppy principal's office trust fund

everyone hostile to “i’m mad as fuck at the world but i’m too dumb to know why” is an amazon employee?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35796137)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 9th, 2018 12:45 AM
Author: Floppy principal's office trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#35796542)



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Date: May 21st, 2018 5:57 PM
Author: talking talented main people

isn't this an INCREASE in taxes collected by the govt? employees must include an equal amount of income from NQSOs as the comp deduction taken by the company, and these guys are in the highest federal bracket which is higher than the new corp tax rate.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#36099333)



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Date: May 21st, 2018 6:04 PM
Author: Drunken low-t prole

no, because they just write it off

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3942652&forum_id=2#36099371)