What are the top worst things about biglaw?
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Date: April 9th, 2018 8:57 PM Author: Cyan aromatic university
1. Constant fire drills - almost heart attack inducing
2. The people - 50% of the people are just complete assholes and 90% are incompetent managers
3. Related to 1., but on-call 24/7
Honestly, the long hours wouldn't be that bad, but for the above
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3944195&forum_id=2#35802651) |
Date: April 9th, 2018 9:08 PM Author: Silver Startled Senate
In theory, it shouldn't matter whether the work you're doing is "necessary" so long as you're getting paid. But most people aren't wired that way and I couldn't get there no matter how much I tried to talk myself into it.
For example: It's one thing to be stuck in the office at midnight because a deal is happening. Hey, that's life. It's completely different when you're only in the office because a psychotic partner has manufactured a fake emergency based on some paranoid flight of fancy. You can see this with the 7.6/9.2 guy-- his fondest memories are all nighters. They're not all necessary all nighters. There's partners manufacturing all-nighters so they can make more fond memories. These people are crazy.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3944195&forum_id=2#35802735) |
Date: April 9th, 2018 9:11 PM Author: Silver Startled Senate
I mentioned this concept in another thread, but: There's no such thing as safe time off unless you're Jewish.
That is, the observant people are guaranteed to be out the door in time for sundown on Friday night and then the next 24 hours are theirs with no consequences. And they know well in advance when the holidays are and nobody expects them to be working on those days.
If I could be a pseudojew and get the same deal, then biglaw would be a million times better. Just, literally, give me the same days off with the same expectations.
If that's not possible-- if it would be infeasible to have too many people out at the same time-- then fine, guarantee me every Thursday night, Sunday during the day, and the same number of days Jews get. But no. Jewish days are literally sacred. For anybody else, getting safe time off is simply not possible.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3944195&forum_id=2#35802754) |
Date: April 9th, 2018 9:24 PM Author: burgundy mildly autistic state gaping
Easily the pointlessness of the work. The principals generally don’t give a single fuck about the lawyers - legal fees are a mere cost of doing business that everyone dreams of eliminating someday. All of the important deal terms are put in the term sheet *precicely* so idiot lawyers don’t fuck them up.
Lawyers aren’t much worried about why some company is buying another one, why it’s paying a 30% premium and how the buyer expects to achieve interesting r&d cost savings. Ie, the stuff that actually matters. Nope. They’re too busy fighting like hell over “commercially reasonable” vs “reasonable” while everyone on both sides would just as soon have them all tossed off a bridge instead of further delaying their deal over stupid minutia.
The level of sacrifice relative to sheer pointlessness of the work is the worst part imo. Jfc I hate corporate lawyers lmao
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3944195&forum_id=2#35802842) |
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Date: April 9th, 2018 11:19 PM Author: Dashing aqua jew
I'd only agree if you could like reform the whole system or something.
but if everyone else is lawyered up, you have to be too.
if everyone did handshake deals on both sides of the table, maybe you are right. but fewer deals would eventually get done because it wouldn't take long to see that sellers would screw buyers in the absence of diligence and contractual protections.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3944195&forum_id=2#35803833) |
Date: April 9th, 2018 10:26 PM Author: 180 jade church building ceo
1. That it never stops, ever. When was the last time--weekends included--when you woke up / got into work with nothing new in your inbox? Law school? It is constant. I haven't seen the bottom of my to-do list in years. There's stuff towards the bottom of it that I never got to for deals that I don't even remember. There is literally always something that you could be doing, and if you're at all conscientious, this wears on you.
2. The daily deadlines and near-constant emergencies. Much of this is caused by inefficient management, but when you start taking orders from clients directly, you often realize that lots of them are fucking nuts, too. Banks? Assholes. Anyone in finance? Asshole. Small company-side clients? The fucking worst -- everything is an emergency to them, even the most routine thing.
3. The uncertainty and inability to plan. E.g., the stress of wondering whether a deal will close the week before you go on vacation or the Monday that you're out. Can you celebrate your wife's birthday on the Wednesday that's her birthday or do you just send flowers and promise that you'll do it on Saturday?
4. The type of people who survive >10 years in big law firms are often unpleasant or become unpleasant over time. The ones who are good people are very popular and can be tough to get in with.
5. The ever-increasing admin bullshit. This only gets worse. Want to be pro bono chair? Doesn't matter -- enjoy. Want to hustle the associates with last names T-Z to make their annual "voluntary" contributions to Untied Way / food bank / other firm pet charity? Yeah, neither does anyone else -- have fun, it's your turn. Oh, you did it last year? Okay, we'll find someone else next year. (They won't.)
6. Working with or across from people who take pride in fucking others over, and play passive-aggressive games. It's a fucking typo or other simple mistake that anyone could have made -- get over yourself and don't email the entire working group about it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3944195&forum_id=2#35803349) |
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Date: April 9th, 2018 10:58 PM Author: Impressive gay wizard
This.
There is no point. You get paid the same no matter what you do, or you get fired. Your bonus is set by what some board at cravath or some other firm you don’t work at decides. No one cares that you are a good lawyer, creative thinker, good with clients. Yes some people make partner, but that’s rare and even if you do make it you still aren’t getting the upside the folks on the business side have. Every cent you make is earned. You’ll never get lucky with any upside. Never any security. You have never created anything, contributed to society in any meaningful way, can’t even say you created a product or made people’s lives better. And you know it wasn’t always like this - that this is a disturbed creation of GC.
The partners who are successful at this today are able to disconnect and just utilize their associates to churn churn churn. They are experts at pointless billing and emphasizing issues that’s don’t matter, and creating a paper trail disavowing any responsibilities for anything that might matter. Some are better people than others, but at the end of the day they need to not care in order to play the game. There is so much turnover that they can never feel close to anyone who works for them.
All corporate jobs suck but there is a reason why the system is set up to hire solely inexperienced but highly educated and socialized but uncreative and unaccomplished dependent strivers.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3944195&forum_id=2#35803647) |
Date: April 9th, 2018 10:42 PM Author: fragrant angry market
I’ve thought a lot about this recently as I’ve slowly reached the point where my depression about work is becoming a daily thing. I think if I were given total autonomy over my deals I wouldn’t mind it as much. I work 2x as fast as the next associates, strive for efficiency over padding for unnecessary shit, and try to focus on business points with my clients.
However, unfortunately, that’s never going to be the way it works. Instead you have partners either pretending (or worse, actually thinking) mundane theoretical nonsense is important to run to ground. I genuinely believe when you make partner they sit you down and strongly encourage you to subtly influence to pad as much as possible. The worst thing though, is even if you get autonomy, it’s because a partner wants to be lazy as hell, and then come back after the deal is done and things have gone to shit, to second guess, question, or be outraged about why we did this or that with zero context whatsoever. It is insane.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3944195&forum_id=2#35803494) |
Date: April 10th, 2018 2:59 AM Author: trip sinister queen of the night
for 50% of biglawyers, at least, <><NO EXIT OPS><>
ljl at us litmos
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3944195&forum_id=2#35804731) |
Date: April 10th, 2018 8:57 PM Author: Ebony Persian
Q for big lolyers: as someone smart enough to make it to big law, i.e, did great in undergrad, did great on LSAT, went to a top law school, was one of top students in top school, then you reach the actual workforce around age 25-26...
You were probably, usually, the smartest kid in the room. But now you're at I dunno, Sullivan & Cromwell or some shit and everyone else is also "the smartest kid in the room". Is there some insane need inside you that drives you to compete in the most high-stress, evenly dealt playing field? Is this what lawyers get off on, some sick sense of proving they are indeed the Smartest One In The Room? Is that why the most depraved/psychopathic people seem to become the most successful, because the corollary to their success is a fiendish drive from insecurity? I'm wondering how anything other than a sort of neurotic tenacity can propel one through a daily existence like big law, even money included.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3944195&forum_id=2#35811585) |
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