Lebron is officially the GOAT now, right?
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: May 27th, 2018 11:28 PM Author: Ocher Stimulating Step-uncle's House National Security Agency
LeBron is impressive, no doubt.
I'm still taking Jordan. He would have gone to and won 8 straight finals if he didn't get suspended for gambling ... errr .... retired to pursue baseball.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138397) |
Date: May 27th, 2018 11:36 PM Author: adventurous goal in life range
when jordan wasnt with the bulls 93-94 they still went 55-27 and made it past round 1 of the playoffs.
if lebron wasnt with these guys? LJL
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138425) |
Date: May 27th, 2018 11:50 PM Author: Lascivious shimmering locus
3-5 record in the finals
played his entire career in the objectively weaker conference, and it wasn't close.
chased talent to win rings, rather than the talent coming to him. when the fallback argument is always that "he didn't have enough help," it's fair to wonder if he got as much from his teammates as he possibly could.
...
those are the arguments.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138474) |
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Date: May 27th, 2018 11:56 PM Author: Adulterous sticky mad-dog skullcap
"it's fair to wonder if he got as much from his teammates as he possibly could."
He took the Warriors to six games with a starting lineup of Mozgov, Dellevedova, Thompson, and JR
He BEAT an f'in 73 win team for a ring with 35 year old Richard Jefferson playing major minutes. Mo Williams played in the rotation in that series.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138495) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 12:04 AM Author: Lascivious shimmering locus
2014-15? that team had kyrie and love as well, both of whom helped lebron all year before getting injured in the playoffs. and who did he beat? a terrible boston team in the first round, an underwhelming bulls team led by Pau Gasol in the 2nd round, and the fluke-y Hawks, who, despite having a great regular season, no one took seriously.
if the argument is that he's getting to the finals, you can't ignore the easy road he's had virtually every single year. so what if he beat the warriors two times that year?
and no f'n way the warriors would've lost had lebron not goaded draymond into "kicking" him.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138530) |
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Date: May 27th, 2018 11:57 PM Author: soul-stirring hospital
"3-5 record in the finals "
This argument is nonsensical to me. In two of his Finals against the Spurs and in every Finals he played against the Warriors he was playing against a significantly better team. Did you expect him to actually win those series?
"it's fair to wonder if he got as much from his teammates as he possibly could. "
LMAO
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138500) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 1:11 AM Author: azure spot
People don't realize how dumb that argument is (at least the way it's frequently used).
As if it would have been better to not reached the finals several of those years to artificially increase his meaningless "win rate in the finals"
What Lebron did this postseason is as good an argument for GOAT as we're going to see, IMHO but I realize not everyone will agree. I think those people are a little too caught up on championships unfortunately - and although they are very important to the discussion I don't see how you ignore the strength of teammates Jordan had compared with this burning heap of a cavs team, or the fact that the Bulls W-L didn't change from the previous year the year Jordan took his first break (imagine Lebron leaving cavs - lol they'd be in the bottom ~3 teams in the East).
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138853) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 3:54 PM Author: Purple hall
?
Lebron averaged a triple double: 34 PPG, 12 RPG, 10 APG, 1.4 SPG, 1.0 BPG and shot 56% from the field
again, when was he "exposed"?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36140905) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 4:21 PM Author: Purple hall
*averages double digit assists a game*
*is a ballhog*
He has the ball in his hands all the time because he's easily their best distributor. Do you even watch basketball at all?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36140993) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 4:35 PM Author: Dull dilemma quadroon
*Lebron dribbles down the court*
*tries to dunk it or passes to wide open guy for easy assist*
*repeat every single play while getting destroyed*
OH WHAT A GOAT!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141079) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 3:47 PM Author: Buff blood rage gunner
What took them so long?
It can't be the math.
33% * 3 > 45% * 2 (or whatever the stats were immediately prior to the 3 point era) isn't deep knowledge.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36140882) |
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Date: June 9th, 2018 9:42 AM Author: arrogant multi-billionaire cuckold
This is one of :D's 115 IQ intellectual yet idiot tells
Ala http://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3990689&mc=87&forum_id=2#36159885
It's not obvious that shoot 3's as a reinvention of the game isn't entirely a function of illegal defense rule changes.
It used to be easier to pass the ball into the post and harder to double isolations, so those used to higher value plays
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36212333) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 12:21 AM Author: floppy puce church building new version
GOATs:
Jordan
Gretzky
Ruth
Only football is difficult to determine. Brady? Brown? Someone else?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138616) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 12:41 AM Author: soul-stirring hospital
"I'm sure there are other guys whose stats would too."
Who?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138734)
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Date: May 28th, 2018 12:54 AM Author: cobalt kitty
LeBron is individually the goat. LeBron is a once in a lifetime individual athlete playing a team sport.
It LeBrons fault he doesn't have any "help"
Mj tops him because he could retain better teammates and made those teammates better. Mj is a once in a generation talent who understood he was playing a team sport.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138791) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 4:41 PM Author: soul-stirring hospital
"but have not been able to compete with the Warriors because LeBron's presence creates a ceiling. "
They're the only team to beat the Warriors in the playoffs in 4 years.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141107)
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Date: May 28th, 2018 4:43 PM Author: soul-stirring hospital
Also:
" And the problem of LeBron having no support seems to follow him wherever he goes,"
The Cavs were 33–49 the season before Lebron returned.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141116) |
Date: May 28th, 2018 1:33 AM Author: navy pisswyrm foreskin
Jordan played a total of two games where the Bulls could have been eliminated in the six years he went to the Finals. LeBron has already exceeded that number against the Pacers and the Celtics minus their top two players this year alone. He went through peak Ewing, peak Malone/Stockton, peak Kemp/Payton, peak Barkley/KJ, peak Shaq/Penny, Drexler and Magic.
LeBron beat the Warriors, who were great, and they beat KD/Westbrook/Harden soundly. He needed the Allen shot to defeat a Spurs team who probably only made the Finals b/c of Westbrook's injury. What notable team has LeBron beaten in the East?
The KG/Pierce/Allen Celts once they were old? The Bulls w/Rose? PG/David West/Hibbert Pacers? Horford & Millsap?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138906) |
Date: May 28th, 2018 1:37 AM Author: opaque nowag karate
Bulls in 94 were a mere 3 seed in the east and didn’t even make the ECF.
Then look at the bulls with the same roster in 95. Total disaster.
Trust me, it’s night and day from Lebron chasing super friends teams.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138917) |
Date: May 28th, 2018 1:42 AM Author: opaque nowag karate
Never forget the op is a shitllennial from faggot New York who really ought to remove spike lee’s “Knicks #1” Foam finger from his ass, but can’t, due to the danger of dying from anal blood loss all over his Patrick Ewing jersey due to the ass-raping Jordan did to all Knicks teams and fans for all eternity.
LeBron is a clear #2 all time.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36138925) |
Date: May 28th, 2018 2:32 AM Author: opaque nowag karate
Skip Bayless
@RealSkipBayless
It's laughable to think winning the Least with this team was some great achievement by LeBron. Victor Oladipo's Indiana? The same sorry Raptors they swept LAST YEAR? The overachieving Celtics without two All-Stars??? Huh? LeBron's Cavs SHOULD'VE won the Least.
10:00 PM · May 27, 2018
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36139007) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 4:33 PM Author: Purple hall
Oh, sorry.
To answer your question, Pete Myers (who was 30 and out of the fucking league for the previous two years) took Jordan's spot and they won 55 games that year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/myerspe01.html
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141068) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 4:50 PM Author: Purple hall
Please illuminate me then. What was his unique impact besides offensive production?
defense? http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-11-11/sports/9611110091_1_defense-toni-kukoc-bulls
"Since he has been in the league, the knock against Toni Kukoc has been his defense. His teammates sometimes razzed him about it. Opponents teased him about it. Sports Illustrated magazine even rated him one of the league's worst defenders."
Was it his 6 rebounds or 5 assists per game?
Is it your argument that Toni Kukoc's 10/6/5 line coming off the bench is the explanation for why the Bulls only lost two more games from the previous season?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141144) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 5:01 PM Author: Olive aromatic sweet tailpipe
Date: May 28th, 2018 4:18 PM
Author: "'"'
Who filled in for Jordan and where did they move the money they saved? Who would fill in for Lebron? What would they use the money on? Fuck yes they would be in the playoffs you fucking retard
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36140982)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141203) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 5:15 PM Author: Purple hall
Who filled in for Jordan: The biggest changes to the bulls' roster were Kukoc and Pete Meyers. Does that make up for Jordan? Remember, they only lost two more games from the previous season.
Who fills in for Lebron: in this scenario, likely not much at all consider the Cavs' luxury tax bill. They're $36 million over the cap and Lebron's salary is $33 million. They would most likely just opt for a complete rebuild if Lebron left and dump salary, but if for some retarded reason they tried to sign a free agent this summer. Their options would be: http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/
You could throw $15-20 million in salary at some free agents, but that's not a lot of buying power in today's NBA.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141259) |
Date: May 28th, 2018 4:26 PM Author: walnut laughsome den skinny woman
Kareem's career was greater than Jordan's.
As for Lebron - he has an argument, and there might not be any other argument when he retires.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141019) |
Date: May 28th, 2018 4:32 PM Author: khaki nursing home
ugh. this is a uniquely awful argument because it’s only interesting to people that don’t actually follow the nba very closely. which in turn leads to horrible arguments from each side.
the different points aren’t really worth reciting. the one thing that gets lost though: lebron plays in a 1000000000x better league than michael jordan faced. straight up. giannis or durant would seem like space aliens to the 1996 phoenix suns. john stockton couldn’t sniff steph curry or even donovan mitchell’s jockstrap if we’re being totally honest and unsentimental. and so on.
moreover the sport is far more taxing both mentally and physically. shittier basketball players made a living in jordan’s day throwing elbows, but now let’s see them constantly run out to contest threes, know how and when to switch pick and roll, and not sabatoge their team’s offense by lacking any shooting ability. if you watch tonight’s rockets warriors game, check out how much houston switches even before golden state initiates an action. houston anticipates golden states plays and switches in advance to prevent a mismatch. i’m sure dennis rodman and anthony mason would do great here
i know we’re supposed to compare historical players against the competition of their day in these arguments, but once you dispense with that bullshit, this argument becomes a joke.
lebron james during his 2012-13 campaign was better than anyone else that ever played the sport
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141066) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 4:44 PM Author: khaki nursing home
presented without further comment:
paul george
demar derozan
jeff hornacek
dan marleje
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141120)
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Date: May 28th, 2018 4:55 PM Author: Bespoke vivacious tanning salon
Also,
Patrick Ewing
Karl Malone
Al Horford
Victor Olaidipo
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141170) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 5:00 PM Author: khaki nursing home
i picked the guys defending each of jordan and lebron. but this is really a horrible game for you to play with me.
if we included prime ewing and prime malone in a redraft of every player in the nba, how high do you think they’d go? ahead of anthony davis? demarcus cousins? karl anthony towns? giannis? durant? (psst: the answer to each one is “fuck no” lol)
the fate of jahlil okafor is instructive here. just do be a lumbering oaf that scores on post ups and 10 footers isn’t really possible anymore
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141196) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 4:44 PM Author: navy pisswyrm foreskin
Right, none of the players from the 1990s would have benefited from the advancements in diet, training and (likely) PEDs that current players do. They would just all stay at their same level of talent.
Similarly, if coaches better understood the value of the three-pointer back in the day, none of those players would have incorporated that shot into their game to a greater degree. They would still all be limited to taking mostly mid-range 18 footers.
I agree if you make those retarded assumptions LBJ might have something approaching a case that he was better than Jordan.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141121)
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Date: May 28th, 2018 4:48 PM Author: soul-stirring hospital
I hate this argument because no one ever makes the reverse argument in defense of modern NBA players.
Would Steph Curry suddenly become a better on ball defender were he playing in 1990? Would he withstand physical contact better?
Would Anthony Davis have become an All-NBA team caliber post player?
But apparently every player from that time period would have began shooting 2018 league average from deep. It's a ridiculous.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141134) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 4:53 PM Author: navy pisswyrm foreskin
You realize league average 3P% was much lower in the 90's right? Jordan shot 32.7% from deep for his career. I'm not going to bother weighting his attempts by season, but looking at the graph below he was pretty clearly right around, if not possibly above, the average 3 point shooter for his career.
https://www.besttickets.com/blog/nba-shooting/
Edit: Jordan was also a significantly better FT shooter than LeBron, which further demonstrates superior pure shooting ability.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141163) |
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Date: May 28th, 2018 5:11 PM Author: khaki nursing home
kawhi is a strong outlier. sooo many athletic wings fail to reach their potential (eg derozan, rudy gay) because they never develop 3 point range. it’s not a given jordan could teach himself to extend his range beyond the least efficient shot in basketball.
also i don’t understand how your adjusting for eras in terms of their shooting percentage. lebron is out here competing in a league a million times better than mj faced. i’m sure lebron would be far less fatigued if he had craig ehlo instead of kawhi guarding him
also lebron shot 40%+ from 3 in 2012-13. the one season he focused on efficiency, his percentages were incredibly high.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141251)
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Date: May 28th, 2018 5:20 PM Author: navy pisswyrm foreskin
So if only Craig Ehlo defended shooting guards in the 90s, wouldn't that be reflected in the leaguewide 3p%? Weird how LeBron's is still no better than average for his era.
Also, since teams apparently didn't even defend the 3PT shot in the 90s, why isn't the league 3 pt rate higher? It's almost like these factors are baked into the numbers and somehow, LeBron is still no better than average.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141273)
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Date: May 28th, 2018 5:47 PM Author: Costumed smoky home
Hypo:
Rockets get lucky and beat the Warriors tonight (without Paul).
Paul is out the entire Finals due to injury. Cleveland wins the championship with LeBron playing at a similar level as he has throughout the playoffs.
What does that do for his legacy?
Btw I think this could happen. CLE matches up well with Houston (compared to the Warriors) and without Paul I think LeBron could win.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3988000&forum_id=2#36141386) |
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