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Should men always wear wristwatches?
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:52 PM Author: 180 set mother I have not worn a wristwatch since sometime in college. I hated how within a year the face would always get some kind of weird scuff on it, the strap eventually tear, or the little knobs would get bent somehow. Granted they were garbage fossil brand watches.
Should I start wearing one again? Can I even be considered a man without one?
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:58 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people Only if you get one with a cool complication like a reserve de marche, or a perpetual calendar or a minute repeater or at a minimum a cool skeletonized watch. A Grand Seiko with a reserve de marche function for like $7k is my suggestion for entry level.
If all it does is tell time -- boring. |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:59 PM Author: Beady-eyed copper organic girlfriend why not get a JLC ultra thin reserve de marche for the same price like you did? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287912) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:02 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people Most one watch dudes buy 1 42mm sport watch and not an ultra thin dress watch . The JLC is very dressy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287931) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 11:57 PM Author: motley cyan whorehouse hunting ground are you flame? you make nowhere near enough money to buy all the shit you post about, particularly living in a high COL area. are you some kind of nigger with money for real? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294782) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 12:04 AM Author: Mint cowardly theater stage dog poop isn't are reptile a Bolshevik Slumlord? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294827) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 9:13 AM Author: Beady-eyed copper organic girlfriend Litigates in front of Gorsuch, depos at Cadwalader, invents insurance product, Brighton beach slumlord. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36295755) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:00 AM Author: motley cyan whorehouse hunting ground Oh he did a stint st Cadwalader in addition to QE? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36296112) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:55 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people I did a depo at Cadwaladers office. LJL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299062) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:54 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people I make $275k a year and my wife works. Our combined income is north of $350k. One of my houses is paid off. I can afford this shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299056) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:18 AM Author: Fragrant church Your wife makes just over $75k/year? Ouch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299736) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:58 PM Author: ebony hilarious tanning salon digit ratio (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287905) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:09 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people The rotor isn't real gold. I couldn't live with an exposed rear with a fake gold rotor. It would drive me batshit. Grand Seiko is credited. Regular Seiko is not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287959) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:12 PM Author: ebony hilarious tanning salon digit ratio (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287974) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:00 PM Author: ruddy boltzmann menage I find it convenient. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287916) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:58 AM Author: federal deer antler windowlicker Yep, I find it convenient (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289664) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 12:56 PM Author: Ruby telephone laser beams (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36290945) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:14 AM Author: demanding vigorous giraffe Sir! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299440) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:00 PM Author: histrionic drunken lay no one will respect you if you dont have a timepiece on your wrist past 25. thats just how it is. you can get a pass if you wear one of these faggy apple iwatches. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287919) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:03 PM Author: ebony hilarious tanning salon digit ratio (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287937) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:04 PM Author: henna box office feces no they look grippa stupid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287939) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:11 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people Cartier has a new 36mm Santos that is highly credited for like $10k. It's nothing special horologically but it is probably the sexiest fashion watch ever made and their new automatic inhouse movement isn't totally horrible. It's certainly no worse than a Nomos movement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287971) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:24 PM Author: razzle chartreuse heaven 36mm? How big is the men's version? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288041) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:27 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people The original Santos was 29mm. 36 is the enlarged modern version. Still a classic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288064) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:58 AM Author: federal deer antler windowlicker LJL at womanly $ wasting on TTT Cartier (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289668) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:01 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people This is the credited attitude to have for all their watches but two models. They make a sick tourbillon for $40k and the Santos is credited because of its history as the first wristwatch. Every other Cartier can be ignored. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299093) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:15 PM Author: Charismatic gay wizard there is no reason to have a wristwatch, you might as well just burn your money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287997) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:26 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people After the quartz crisis all the better manufacturers learned to police supply to the point where the waiting list for a lot of Vacheron and Audemars Piguet and even the better Rolex models is something like "sometime after 2025." You put down a deposit for the pleasure of waiting 8 years. They sell for way, way, way over retail on the grey market. Like Ferraris. This is generally all for shit over $30k. At the $10k price point it's easy to fall for a model with resale value that's less than half of retail. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288060) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:11 PM Author: Know-it-all Parlor Stock Car Lol what currently produced Rolex has a 7 year wait? I doubt any. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294256) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:53 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people Ceramic Daytonas. The way around the waitlist is to buy like 5 shittier models and then your sales rep makes a call. Other than that you pay double on the grey market or wait 5-7 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299048) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:34 PM Author: Hyperventilating bawdyhouse circlehead it's annoying as fuck to have to whip out your phone every time you want to check the time
unlike what bitchface is saying itt you don't need to spend a shitton on one. it's really easy to get a very classy vintage watch without paying much. |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:41 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people Vintage watches all break easy. Vintage basically means pre saphire faces and before near frictionless silicon gears. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288114) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:42 PM Author: Hyperventilating bawdyhouse circlehead wow nobody gives a flying fuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288119) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:55 AM Author: Know-it-all Parlor Stock Car Of course that’s what a prole russian striver would say. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289653) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:29 PM Author: Claret titillating ticket booth associate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299250) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:21 PM Author: 180 set mother hmm how about an Oris propilot? I like the way it looks, not too expensive, Swiss, and has an altimeter which I could possibly use
https://www.oris.ch/en/collection/oris-big-crown-propilot |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:29 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people Oris is has a skeleton model that is very credited for the money but their movements are pretty vanilla ETAs with no story. They are reliable and for the money quite good but I don't see the point of any watch at this price point. The point of this hobby is to own something weird and unique and insanely complicated. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288073) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:34 PM Author: spectacular institution multi-billionaire (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288088) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:37 PM Author: Buck-toothed sooty mood Sounds about right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288104) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:46 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people I've been thinking of buying this ecodrive.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/citizen-eco-drive-one-thinnest-light-powered-watch
Every mass market line has one or two standout models for real watch collectors. I wouldn't buy a vanilla ecodrive but this thing I would buy. |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 11:41 PM Author: Mint cowardly theater stage dog poop $20 says it's this model
https://us.citizenwatch.com/us/en/mens-corso/BM7262-57A.html?cgid=mens-ecodrive |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 11:46 PM Author: spectacular institution multi-billionaire (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294741) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:35 PM Author: nighttime hissy fit quadroon There are a few German watchmakers who make nice entry level luxury watches. Check out Stowa and Nomos. Nomos is a bit more expensive because of their in-house movement, but the Stowa movements are fine (they're Swiss), and I think Stowas look better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288092) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:41 PM Author: pale hairraiser library pistol Stowa might be the best value around. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301752) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:38 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people Joe Rogan explains watches
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IsZaOlCEmYs |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:25 PM Author: 180 set mother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294317) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:40 PM Author: Fragrant church Get a good smartwatch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288109) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:40 PM Author: Hyperventilating bawdyhouse circlehead cr really great way to signal that you're a fag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288111) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:44 PM Author: Cocky school useless brakes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288127) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:44 PM Author: Fragrant church no u. You signal that you're tech-savvy and cutting edge while being both productive and fashion forward. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288128) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:44 PM Author: Hyperventilating bawdyhouse circlehead that is literally the textbook definition of a fag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288129) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:49 PM Author: Fragrant church No, a fag is a man who takes another man's penis in his butt or mouth and/or puts his penis in another man's butt or mouth. This is about intelligently choosing a watch that is both functional and stylish. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288146) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:35 AM Author: Thriller Vermilion Shrine Boiling Water Actually, NOT doing those things makes you a fag. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289565) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 12:56 PM Author: Fragrant church I forgot that this is a nude bodybuilding forum... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36290940) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:51 PM Author: Laughsome pink base (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288153) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:52 PM Author: Beady-eyed copper organic girlfriend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288159) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 11:38 PM Author: Sienna Sickened House International Law Enforcement Agency (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288347) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 8:21 AM Author: doobsian liquid oxygen nursing home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289311) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:54 AM Author: brilliant selfie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289648) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:16 PM Author: Chocolate Dopamine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294280) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:16 PM Author: Mint cowardly theater stage dog poop (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299189) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:20 AM Author: Racy Prole (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299740) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:11 PM Author: Sinister Filthpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301642) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:46 PM Author: Deep national (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288138) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:42 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people Right, so you have one more device to charge every single day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288117) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:43 PM Author: Fragrant church You just place it on a stand at night. It takes zero thought. No one sleeps with a watch on anyway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288122) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:46 PM Author: Impertinent brunch striped hyena An automatic mechanical watch is actually the most convenient way to keep track of time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288137) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:53 PM Author: Beady-eyed copper organic girlfriend just look at the sun (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288160) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:54 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people Some of us live in the arctic circle, bro. Not cool. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288161) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 8:23 AM Author: wonderful obsidian shitlib meetinghouse Real men? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289321) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 8:27 AM Author: Floppy hell ABWW. A always B be W wearing W wristwatches. always be wearing wristwaches. ALWAYS... BE WEARING WRISTWATCHES. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289329) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:50 AM Author: Azure volcanic crater wearing an orange seiko monster right now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289629) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:53 AM Author: soul-stirring office national security agency seems like a huge waste of money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289647) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 1:01 PM Author: domesticated excitant cuck Watches are Boomer flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36290968) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 1:18 PM Author: Impertinent brunch striped hyena (pocketwatch proponent) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36291067) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 3:03 PM Author: Fragrant church pocketwatch = cell phone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36297034) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:39 PM Author: haunting comical sanctuary Yes. Always. (GC) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294387) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:48 AM Author: federal deer antler windowlicker This is stupid, men carrying a timepiece predates (((GC))) fucking with everyone’s lives and no one said it had to be an expensive watch, could be a $10 Casio digital. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36296038) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:57 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people There are $5000 G-Shocks from Casio. Even with digital there is no reason to ever go prole. Buy one of those. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299071) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:42 PM Author: federal deer antler windowlicker Why would anyone spend $5k on a digital watch? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301757) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:57 PM Author: haunting comical sanctuary CR but back then we didn't all have 15 clocks (or timekeeping devices) in every room. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299074) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:03 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people Just do ask Alexa for the time. But what do you do after Red Dawn when the internet and power is down as Russian EMPs killed all th Quartz time pieces? Then you will wish you had a Rolex. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299100) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:44 PM Author: federal deer antler windowlicker Still, i'd rather glance at a cheap wristwatch than have to pull my piece of shit GC iPhone out of my pocket to check the time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301761) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:04 PM Author: appetizing lime kitchen If you're comfortable with being a jewelry guy, I guess. Personally, I don't like to wear jewelry so I don't wear a watch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299107) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:05 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people But then you can't legitimately tell a dude that your watch costs more than his car. That's the ultimate powe move short of raping his wife while he watches. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299117) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:16 AM Author: demanding vigorous giraffe (5’4” dude) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299456) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:03 AM Author: Idiotic dashing piazza mfCrrrrrrrrr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299665) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:18 PM Author: 180 set mother So I should add a gold necklace as well? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299212) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:22 AM Author: Fragrant church Wait, are there people here who don't wear thick gold necklaces? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299747) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:04 PM Author: curious den tattoo I've worn the same green timex since I was 18 its a 180 watch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299110) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:17 PM Author: haunting comical sanctuary cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299204) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:19 PM Author: Abnormal Internet-worthy Scourge Upon The Earth lol at the people in this thread that dont check their email 60x times an hour and complaining about having to take out their phone to check the time. jokes on you i already know the time because i never get to put my phone down. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299217) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:21 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people It's not about telling time. It's about having a super cool insanely complicated machine on your wrist that has 900 man hours of work behind it. Some slave spent 6 months making one watch and you own it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299223) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:26 PM Author: Abnormal Internet-worthy Scourge Upon The Earth yah idk man id rather spend the 20k on like a miata or sweet motorcycle. that checks all your weird sociopath boxes but also, you know, does something functional.
edit: also good: hiring an actual person to just do 900 man hours of helpful work for you. laundry, cleaning, errands, etc. |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:27 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people Most car guys are watch guys. You do both, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299243) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:29 PM Author: Abnormal Internet-worthy Scourge Upon The Earth i am a car guy. if i have another 20k to burn im getting another car. not some dumb ass fucking watch that only the people i like the least would appreciate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299247) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:24 PM Author: Aromatic hall main people If all your watch does is tell time you're doing it wrong. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299235) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:12 AM Author: Sinister Filthpig Brother in law recently bought me a Cartier watch. Appreciate the gesture but I feel like it’s a waste of money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299426) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:21 AM Author: Nudist stage what would you have liked instead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299484) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:47 AM Author: Sinister Filthpig Nothing. I’m a joyless autist/ xo poster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299617) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:20 AM Author: Racy Prole same (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299742) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:35 AM Author: Contagious blood rage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299790) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:23 AM Author: Cerebral Khaki Station Roommate don't the Goldman guys wear Timex Ironmans? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299492) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:40 PM Author: exciting corn cake http://www.businessinsider.com/gselevator-on-wall-street-watches-2016-9 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301745) |