Someone get it’s

Or half alien half man

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40804872)

under pain of torture and death, they all stuck to this conspiracy, because hey why not

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40802026)

Gospel might be bullshit but it justified no earthly riches or pleasure for its early adherents. Stronger critique might be that these people had shit lives and took solace that they were purchasing their way into heavenly glory or something. In the meantime they had to give all their stuff to the poor, travel around living on alms and face down certain torture and death

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40802102)

2. Ancient people spoke in dumb as hell language. One guy could have had a dream and everything became literal. It’s easy to see the resurrection is the same kind of story as is Elija’s work with the Baal worshippers. Neither happened IRL but that only marginally diminishes their spiritual import.

3. The theology developed around the fake resurrection is incredibly strong, such that dying for misinformation / a strong theology is perfectly reasonable. The truth of the logos is obvious and worth dying for. The resurrection is irrelevant.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40802116)

"People then were just dumber and didn't really understand the difference between allegory and fact" is an interesting claim, but would need a lot of evidentiary support that I don't think you could marshal, even if youre right. We just dont have the access

I also think attempts to excise the resurrection out in order to strengthen christianity are silly. the gospels were entirely death-resurrection stories, and if anything the ministry/biography stuff developed with time and obvious less importance. The ONLY thing the early church wanted you to know was death-resurrection

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40802135)

I’ll think more about your second point, but I think the story of Elija and supernaturalism generally in the OT gives us some understanding of the way the people of that time wrote and thought about irl events, ie they seem to use allegory to describe the spiritual significance of events that likely contained far less supernaturalism than their later accounts suggest.

What does it mean to say Jesus is Christ and that he was raised from the dead? It means he was such an embodiment of the Logos that he survived his physical death and now lives in our hearts and is made manifest in the material world to such an extent that it makes sense to say given the horrendous linguistic tools we have available to understand the mind/body problem, or the subject/object distinction, that Christ was resurrected. But that claim is a claim to a transcendent truth, not a physical one. And the reason we say that about Christ and not our grandma is because Christ was a world historic figure who did an heroic thing while a group of highly spiritual people with a proclivity for supernaturalism and story telling watched and were profoundly moved, and that world historic thing just so happened to be an heroic act so precisely in line with the deepest aspect of our human will that we can tell the story and be shaken to our absolute core when we see our inner life so perfectly reflected externally.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40802201)

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/9978

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40804721)

the foundation of the religion is that Jesus is the Christ, from which most auxiliary truths can be deduced without Paul's interpretation of the events or even the written accounts of Jesus's life in the gospels.

if we take seriously the notion that Christ reconciled man to God, then that world-historic event, together with a very minimal relaying of this truth (the total set of propositions for which is much smaller than all those propositions contained in the NT) is sufficient for our salvation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40802665)

-Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished.

-Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

-“Scoffer” is the name of the arrogant, haughty man who acts with arrogant pride.

-Love [Charity] is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant

-And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, ***pride***, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40802701)

only the beauty of european philosophy make the concept of 3 = 1 elegant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40802157)

if the latter how can you accept faith in the incarnation?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40802697)

There are great theologies that attempt to do this with the resurrection - i.e. the only way Christ was able to properly suffer the passion was because of the inevitability of the resurrection (put differently, the crucifixion couldn't happen unless the resurrection was certain), and I get very close to buying that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40802747)

There are many types of supernaturalism I believe in - they are primarily circumstances of exceedingly low probability (coincidence) that nevertheless obey the known laws of physics, or circumstances of spiritual healing. I also believe generally in a mind-body gestalt that God intervenes in, and I believe God orders and plans lives and destinies. But to believe that a man was dead and came back to life - there is no textual or sociological means of demonstrating this truth. There may be a revelatory means of demonstrating this truth, but there has yet been no such revelation in my life.

Paul gave me a christophany once, but then I remembered he was just writing a book, and people say all kinds of things when they write books, and then I realized I was seeing Paul's Christ, not Christ.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40802847)

Hard to say which is more true, but I’d venture to say Judaism is incomplete in so far as it fails to take the will as an object of worship. In that regard it’s an incomplete metaphysic that’s still “in the world” insofar as it still operates under implicit parameters Christianity makes explicit and rejects, giving Christianity a truly comprehensive metaphysic.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40803801)

Another theoretical virtue is benefit to society, because we would expect a metaphysical theory of God or the universe or whatever to lead to good outcomes. To the extent you think western civ and western tech are better than societies and technologies coming from other religions, Christianity might be more true.

There’s also the lived experience of Christians who, as they mature in faith, offer reports of increased community, empathy, peace, etc, which also speaks to truth as a function of efficacy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40803980)

second paragraph i agree with & that's why i like and respect christianity as an outsider

third paragraph, if you believe that, you would have greater appreciation for mormonism, which you don't seem to have. they raise big and societally healthy families, much more so than other denominations of christianity currently. of course, theologically, it seems like a complete load of shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40803987)

3. that's a good point, don't think i have a great response.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4609551&forum_id=2#40804007)